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Community Discussion: Blog by Trev | MAG Postmortem: What The F*ck, Guys?Destructoid
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At launch, MAG was a game that, while very enjoyable, needed some updates. You know, just one of those games that could use a tweak here and there. Just over eight months later, I've basically given up on ever seeing those changes. While I suppose that “postmortem” implies the game is dead or finished in some way, and that really isn't the case, I'm at a bit of a loss for a more apt title. The game is still quite alive.

Sigh. Where to start on this? I've been taking potshots at it for a while now, but I never really condensed it into a blog. When MAG dropped I, along with IronPikeman, started the Dtoid SVER clan. It seemed that most people gravitated toward Raven and we switched over to consolidate the more active players. I then played some sixty-three levels on Raven. As a result, I'm convinced Zipper doesn't have a fucking clue how to make video games. Perhaps that's kind of harsh. They can program things that function remarkably well; I have essentially never had any lag in MAG. They simply have no good ideas. I actually kind of hope someone from Zipper reads this and realizes they've convinced someone that was pumped about SOCOM 4 not to ever buy it. Seriously. That shit is going to need to roll on 10s across the board for me to even consider dropping money on it.

MAG is fun, but after numerous updates and even a big 2.0 patch that basically overhauled how the game's skill and equipment systems worked, Zipper has failed to fix even the most minor of problems. Just as an example, on Raven's Domination map, the first default objective is on the other fucking side of the map. This thing has got to be a variable, a scant few lines of code to actually change at worst and a check box on a map editor at best; changing it should take minutes and yet literal months have passed without a fix. I've actually made a diagram:


A: Where you start.
B: Where the default order should be.
C: Where it is.
The dashed line represents one of the few effective paths between points A and C.

Now, looking at this without any experience with the game might not seem terrible, until the size of the map comes into play and the need to navigate past a major enemy inroad and the highly contested anti-air guns. Can this be changed? Yes, your squad leader can change it to whichever objective they like. Unless they get jammed at the start. The only reason I feel such a minor thing is so damning is the ease with which it could be fixed and the obvious, binary nature of its incorrectness. Is it on the right thing or the fucking wrong thing, Zipper?

They've also taken to kowtowing to the players, SVER primarily. Most people are on SVER because SVER has the advantage in basically every respect. The forums were filled with complaints about imbalance, but anytime something was changed, SVER would whine and it would get changed back. I hear they put up a vote about making domination maps faction neutral (simply, you will defend on all of them instead of just your factions) and that was shot down because SVER, having the strongest map and the most players, didn't want to give up their easy wins. I've also heard about people getting banned from the forums for complaining about these things.


Obligatory picture to break up the post!

Take that policy of useless faffing about and impotent administration and apply it to literally every other aspect of the game that needed-slash-needs work. Maps and weapons still need balancing but it won't happen because Zipper will buckle as soon as someone complains. The skill system is still inherently flawed to favor some factions over others but there's no way to fix it without some massive "3.0" patch and I doubt they can handle it. MAG is still that game that launched back in January, but slightly different. The things that needed work still need it. It's still good-but-needs-a-patch. I just don't believe it's going to get that patch anymore. The game is still good, but it's always going to be a little broken—I'm not sure how many times I need to restate this to get the point across effectively, but it always feels like one more is about right. That doesn't prohibit a good time playing with friends, because, ultimately, playing with friends is really the strength of any game. Better the douchebags you know than the douchebags you don't.

Speaking of, MAG bros (and sisses? Broettes? Is 'bro' really a gender qualified term anymore?) I've noticed our teamwork has gone to shit since the faction switch. I'll be going for the frago, which is somewhat irregularly updated only to look down and see the map ringed with sky blue triangles going off in other directions. Maybe you want to whore points with randoms instead? Last night, I had better teamwork with a blue dot I could only sort of talk to with prox-chat than I have with any of you since the switch. As squad leaders, you've been changing fragos to get yourself extra repair points. If I wanted to play with disorganized randoms, I wouldn't wait to spend double-XP happy hour with you guys.

UPDATE:
You know what? Here's my final thoughts on the topic of MAG.
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Legacy Comments (will be imported soon)


I agree with your assessment. Months and months of optimism have decayed into a bitter cynicism towards Zipper, when with every step forward they take two steps back. A huge overhawl of the game has seen the resurrection of old familiar bugs plus brand new ones. It's like cutting off your toes to put on your shoes.

You're right about the lack of teamwork we got going on recently. It's because there's nothing to do on SVER that requires any teamwork or any thought at all. It's too easy to defend, too easy to attack, too easy to kill a bunch of guys, too easy to keep all your assets in tip-top shape. You want for action. Last night we drew smilie faces on the terrain, we were so bored. Raven was more frustrating but more fun.
I'm with you on SOCOM.... it seems that the more Zipper tried to fix MAG, the more they broke it. The game hasn't evolved... it's devolved.

The reversed auto fragos is a huge issue with me too. They've been there and complained about since the beta, yet with all the updates, they've never fixed this very basic issue.

I also completely agree that Zipper should have more balls and do what's right for the game as a whole, and not just give in to the vocal minority which are primarily comprised of SVER players.

LMAO about the teamwork going to shit since the faction switch... yeah, I'll fully admit that on defence my only concern is fixing assets so I can get the ribbons to buy a new gun. When I get to level 39 and can buy the variable scope, I'll likely take to sniping a lot on defence when playing SVER... why? - because SVER maps mostly defend themselves and I don't really care if we win or lose. We've yet to lose a DOM match and I've never bothered defending the bunkers... there's at least a squad or two of us at the back of the map watching some Raven or Valor guy take out our assets so we can run along behind them and fix shit for the points. I won't redline camp the opposition because I've never done that... it just feels unsporting to me.

On offense I think we generally play with better teamwork... bu yeah, there's no sense of really "wanting the win". I think I prefer playing as the underdog on Raven where teamwork was really needed, it just doesn't seem needed on SVER because the maps will win the game whether we're there or not. In fact if the bunker goes down it adds a little excitement to defence (which is incredibly boring). I think I'm learning some new strategies for Raven offence against SVER though... especially attacking their map - their is NO defence for defending our own map, though on the rare occasion when our platoon is quiet, I might be more inclined to go help out another platoon as this is effective on SVER. One of the reasons we can never get the letters is that our 4 squads are attacking against 6 or 10 SVER squads as they can safely leave their turrets to defend most of their bunkers or then can have one or two people camp the hills behind the bunkers to easily defend them - leaving others free to defend another platoons letters.

Meh.. it's been interesting, but I definitely find SVER boring. The ONLY challenge in Dom is attacking Valor's maps... and we get that same challenge playing Raven.

Still, it's nice to have a change of pace.
I acknowledge that it's considerably easier, but I think you don't care if we win or lose because you're playing on an alt account. Not that anyone on our clan seems that stat-obsessed, but it's really a situation destined for total apathy. I'm leaning toward it being kind of boring as well, but I would rather have boring wins than boring losses; steamroll rather than BE steamrolled.

But it isn't really about actually winning or losing though, but the possibility to do so. I think I've walked away from half our matches as Raven against SVER because I could either go out there and have no fun getting blown away to maybe make progress but ultimately lose because there just isn't enough time on the clock to actually win... or go to the kitchen and make a sandwich. I only tell you guys I'm doing it part of the time.

As much as easymode with amazing maps and the most powerful guns will probably get old, I think I'd just as soon snap the disc in half and throw it in the trash as go back to Raven. We could try Valor when we hit 70. I grabbed a bare M4A1 off someone last night and it was pretty damn effective and not a piece of shit like basically every gun of Raven's.

...or I'll just play some BC2 with Eliza. I see her on that often enough. Or maybe some MoH, or Killzone 3 when that comes out. Or any shooter made by people good at their jobs.
... the apathy about winnning/losing isn't really to do with it being an alt account... it's just that even if we don't defend the bunkers, we win. I was just in a game where they finally took down our front lines near the beginning of the game (we were short on players) and we still one the game with them holding one of our letters from about the 20 minute mark onward. It just really doesn't seem to matter what we do on SVER Dom when deefending... we could be sitting picking our noses and we'll still win.

It really does come down to map inbalance on Dom... the outcome is predetermined no matter what we do, but I guess I would rather be attacking their Dom map and having the excitement of getting killed rather than redline camping the opposition (which is why I run around and repair shit - I hate redline campers and don't want to be one). Valor is as bad as Raven - try defending their Aqui map against any form of organized opposition. Their Dom map where we can drive to the AAA is just as bad (though they do have that great sniper building behind the AAA that they sometimes actually use).

I think we're adding UT3 into the mix though... a few people have it now and it's a good game - maybe Wednesdays for UT3?
I never understood why they didn't make all three teams identical with just aesthetics being the sole difference. And while I haven't played in some time, I didn't realize that they never went through with whole making the maps faction neutral. I hate losing but can tolerate it if we at least have a fair shot at winning. But when the only way to win a match is to literally have the majority of the opposition asleep at the game, it just makes you not want to play anymore. My hatred of SVER was getting ugly.

I always had a great time playing with the Dtoid clan but could never enjoy the game with strangers. Almost every single game with randoms would reduce my squad from 8 players down to 5 just because people are so quick to jump on that boot button. I didn't even bother attempting to be SL since it would usually mean I wouldn't play a full round.

While I still want to hit up a match or two with you guys, I feel less guilty about not joining if you guys are over on SVER now haha. I'll probably be picking up BC2 since Fission keeps pushing me to get it, though I did see that quite a few people on my friends list were playing BlOps today. While I have a lab I'll need to finish up tomorrow night, I will try and be there for some UT3 if that is going down. I could use some good ol' fashioned "running-and-gunning".
Interesting... Didn't know you guys had already swtiched to SVER! xD

The game's shitty structure and unfairness towards Raven and Valor is fucking bullshit. Zipper needs to grow some balls to do what's right to make the game FUN for everyone.

I never really noticed that we had lost so many matches. Playing with you guys is awesome, so I don't give a shit about winning or losing. :P

Also Trev, I'd totally play Bad Company 2 with you if I actually knew how to play it xD. My cousin is the one who logs into my account and plays, but I can learn to join on Fridays. :)

Super Awesome Blog!
So the choice is victory that's too easy or loss that's inevitable? No matter how well we play we'll probably lose as anyone but SVER and if we play AS SVER, we might as well not play at all. Maybe I'll trade it in for a copy of black ops and be done with it. I mean, as much as I like playing MAG with the crew, the game itself has just been slowly wearing away. I can probably get a shooter fix from BC2, Black Ops, Killzone, or Borderlands if I need it. When the benefit of MAG is that it allows for 8 player groups, so we can all have a shitty experience at the same time, maybe it just isn't worth dragging out further.

That certainly is negative...
@Talia
That would be pretty cool. I think BC2 is a slick game and you should check it out since there's clearly a copy somewhere near your ps3. If I don't have BLOPS (I love this name now, thanks celica) by this Friday, or maybe even if I do, I'll throw some BC2 on the schedule.

@Celica
That's really where I'm at. It's looking more like the good option is to just play something else. It kind of sucks because I enjoy playing MAG with you guys, I could play other games also with you guys that don't infuse me with such a defeatist attitude.
Just a note... But most of didn't vet to sver... Were using alt accounts or some bought the extra slots... So I think for fnf well start with raven...
Shame... this seemed like one of the coolest titles on the PS3 to me. I hate it when companies bow to the wishes of the vocal, arrogant minority.
Side note... do you think it's all them being stupid? Or are there some design flaws that they just can't figure out? Because, as a wannabe game designer, I'm always worried my games will suck for some reason I can't figure out. Just curious.
I never got into MAG. I tried the beta and hated it, but maybe that's because I didn't have anyone I knew to play it with.
I heard BC2 being mentioned and came as soon as I could.

Shame about MAG, I was actually considering buying it, but if its true that the balance is so out of whack towards one team, I'd rather not. I had no idea it was that bad.

Also, BC2 in FNF rotation? YES
@Sama
Honestly? I think it's just that they're stupid. It's not a nice thing to say, but they've got these things that are totally unbalanced at a basic level. Sver's weapons were supposed to be strong but inaccurate, Valor's balanced, Raven's the most accurate... but there's always been a collection of skills that made guns have less recoil/be more accurate, meaning Raven's supposed "advantage" is something that the other to factions can acquire and still have higher damage weapons. I can barely scratch the surface on what's wrong with the maps. The arrangement of bunkers, cover, and objectives is so heavily skewed that loss or victory is more reliant on which team you're on than player skill. Sver's bunkers are lined up with clear areas around them in front of the walls so they can fire at any incoming vehicles, players or even use the bunker turrets to defend other bunkers; Raven's are all offset and surrounded by junk. Some of them can't even see the nearest objectives. Describing it as "like night and day" is perhaps not a strong enough contrast. It's the surface of the sun vs. the dark side of Pluto.

They essentially set up one faction to fail, one to have a hard time, and one to completely 'roll the other two at their leisure.
@Fission
We played it for quite a while before switching to MoH, but I think BC2 is coming back this Friday. I honestly can't recommend MAG anymore, not for anything other than "play with some awesome folks from Dtoid", but said folks can get other games.
Rad. If I'm not busy, which I hope I'm not, I'd definitely roll with 3 dtoid peeps and destroy all opposition. Or a private match if there are enough people and just kill everyone, whatever is preferred.
Personally I'd rather earn my wins or losses than be handed an empty victory.

We'll still be playing Raven on Friday night for the fun and glory, before switching to SVER to lick our wounds and wind down the night. If anybody is yet interested in MAG, I suggest you try it out while you can - as it's extremely unlikely you'll get a similar experience with the DTD clan in any other upcoming game. By that I mean, the best bit of MAG is for the time being alive and well: playing with a bunch of super sexy Dtoiders. Other games may be better of quality but you won't get this experience anywhere else.
Well, I disagree, but after spending some time on the official MAG forums it's nice to see a coherent post about the game :)

Having played all 3 factions, I honestly felt that Raven had the worst teamwork. I wasn't in a large clan so that generally makes a difference, but back when MAG dropped, SVER played well together. Good teamwork = win, almost no exceptions. Yeah, there's imbalances here and there, but compare it to Raven's Acquisition map, which can turn into a meatgrinder for the attacker with depressing regularity. SVER's Dom is not the impregnable fortress it was back in February.

The game is definitely not perfect, but at the risk of infuriating Jim Sterling, the major cause is people playing it wrong :) that is, people lonewolfing, playing it like COD etc. Playing as a team - the way it was envisioned - is a fantastic feeling.

Also, just a q...did you vet over to the other factions? Good way to break things up (also, Valor....stop with the TKing, m'kay?)

Anyway, enjoy Black Ops :D
@Adonai

A few of us started on SVER this week, some of whom are on their second run through that faction. I find the tendency of SVER players to be no better than those on Raven; they act how they want to act, ignoring OIC or PL orders no less than any other faction. The difference certainly does manifest though as 'no teamwork', as SVER players are permitted luxuries denied to Raven and Valor. The first that springs to mind is their advantageous equipment: reflex sights allowing for clearer aiming, for example. Killing enemies is easier; you don't need back up to mow down a flank. Another is the SVER tendency to repair shit post haste - the maps are inclined towards SVER's defense so that players become idle, allowing them the time and desire to seek out stuff what needs doing. Usually a SVER bunker is able to be defended by its turret and a lone camper, letting the other six squad members do as they please.

SVER has just as many obnoxious loudmouths and just as many mutes as Raven, I can tell you that. When deploying a game under Raven, you would frequently be playing in the same platoon as another clan (often the other clan spilling into two squads), so teamwork isn't lacking. The single biggest problem in the game nowadays is the SVER powerhouse. Fix that and fix the game.
LMAO!! So talking about MAG's faults finally pushed you over the edge eh?? Haha!

If everyone is going to be on BLOPS I'll probably get that. But since I'll be getting NFS next week, the cheaper option of BC2 might be the better one for now. Ugh I'll decide later....
@Celica
I think I finally realized that the only part of the game I was having fun with was the people I was playing it with. I don't actually want to play mag, because it's either 99.9% chance of crushing defeat or so easy it doesn't matter if half of us play, I just wanted to hang out with the people. That's some big ups for dtoiders, but hefty downs for MAG.

If you get BC2, make sure it's a new copy. Should be $40, and you'd want the online pass code so you don't need to buy map packs (Until Vietnam, at least). If we all get together, you, Talia, Fission, and I can blow up some motherfucker's coolers.

@Adonai
We, as Sver, were attacking Raven on Acquisition. I was covering some guy planting on one of the middle bunkers. Like half a dozen Ravens poured out of one side and, being familiar with this sort of situation, decided to take one of them with me since that's how many would have died if the factions were reversed, if I was lucky. Instead, I mowed all of them down and could have done it again without reloading. I knew Sver guns were stronger, but in practice the difference is magic. Winning gunfights is just how things are, and the slower fire rate just means you don't dump a mag like you would on Raven. Combine easily superior weapons with egregious map imbalance and Sver's wins don't come down to player skill. We've probably lost all of once since we switched and we've been playing like idiots. I don't even remember our bunker going down for an appreciable amount of time.
I had a lot of issues with MAG also.
I never realized there were so many balancing issues with this game, but I guess this makes me feel better that I never got around to buying it.
I started on SVER and it was pretty easy to rack up a lot of kills very quickly on the turret. It's not to hard to kill someone from a distance that you can't even see.

I've only played about 95 hours, so you guys may notice more things, but most of the problems I've seen come from bad teamwork. People usually do pretty well, or at least ok, if they just go to the frago (defending the bunker on defense helps a lot, too). But far too often, they just don't. Sometimes my squad mates go hiking all over the map or half will stay behind and be snipers. A was attacking either a cooling or burnoff tower on SVER and killed like four or five guys with the F90. I was already dead before one person showed up.

I guess I never focused on winning enough to notice these things. It's likely nothing will get fixed if the biggest faction doesn't want them to. People don't want fixes if it gets rid of their exploits and ability to be cheap. I'd be happy if they'd just change the knife (they might have since I haven't played in awhile) so people will actually use guns as their primary weapon.
@Andy
I think they've actually gotten worse. Way back when, Raven had a great AR in the ATAC2000 and Valor's LMGs were very good. That's where the kowtowing comes in though. Sver is probably larger than the other two factions combined, so things that made it harder for them to win get nerfed and there's no way to bring it back because Sver will always be louder.

@Entering
Teamwork is important but, just as an example, an Sver's acquisition map, if at least half of Sver is even moderately competent, Raven is basically stuck throwing themselves against the bunker line like bugs on a windshield. Vehicles coming in are just deathtraps bunker turrets have clear lines of fire to their neighbors. If it's two equally skilled teams, it will be a complete wash out for Raven. I actually really dislike saying "I lose because X is overpowered", but having experienced both sides of it, that's all I can come up with.
I only played the beta (won a contest for a code here), but from what I recall, I felt the map imbalances there too, and that's what ultimately turned me off (well, that and revives being such a stupidly easy to farm points). I remember playing SEVER's map and being driven insane. Huge, clear lanes of fire for each of the bunkers, and even IF you managed to get past that by some miracle, there were two nice bridges making for an absurd choke point situation. And whenever I had to defend on Raven's map, it wasn't fun at all. My memory might be foggy, but if I recall correctly, when Raven attacked Sver, Raven had 1 APC, but when Sver was on offense on our domination map, they had two (not to mention our bunkers didn't have great fields of fire).

I really, really wish I hadn't felt the way I had about MAG, because I was really looking forward to the massive, teamwork oriented battles the game was striving towards.

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