I have strong opinions about the grrl gaming phenomenon,
very strong opinions. While I've discussed such sentiments privately amongst trusted comrades and cohorts in the gaming industry, I frustratingly tend to bite my tongue when it comes to expressing myself within the larger Destructoid community. The reasons are the general dissonance in discussing the matter as though it's a STFJPG instance (which it's certainly and most definitely
not given what the industry is veering towards in this day and age), and the mere fact that I tend to get angry and frustrated rather than articulate when I attempt to describe what I think.
After listening to the good Reverend's rant and reading Virtualgirl's response I felt the need to just skim the surface on my personal thoughts in regards to the grrl gamers out there. I'm going to try to keep it simple and short so as to potentially develop my argument later, so here goes nothing:
Media scholar and philosopher Marshall McLuhan coined the quintessential expression "the medium is the message". Taking this into consideration with grrl gamers, the particular ailment of these female gaming communities is the dependency on the image as their first and foremost means of communicating their apparent plight for 'respect'. As Rev. explained, when these girls slather prolific amounts of photos of themselves the
message they are projecting is very particularly and exclusively oriented towards distinguishing themselves as 'female' or 'not male', thereby immediately debasing whatever idea of equality they were supposedly demanding.
Why is this message so inherently black and white? Because these photos are circulated within and are part of the mass media in which personal intentions, general goodwill, and individual personalities behind the image are altogether ignored, erased, and replaced with the surface level meaning. Period.
I want to reiterate that the key phrase of this statement is 'mass media'. Personal stories such as VirtualGirl's reveal to us that there is a large level of devotion and meaning within such cultural acts as dressing up as Lara Croft at a convention which I can respect to a certain degree on an individual basis. Her passion and confidence for something that she loves are to be envied. But the mass media cares only what the masses want, and within this largely masculine gaming demographic the masses want to consume stereotypical, sexualized fantasy women, so thats what they will see.
My advice? If you want to discuss how you want to be treated equally as a gamer because you think that you are somehow alienated by your sex then
write about it instead of posting photos of yourself. What you look like has absolutely nothing to do with how passionate you are about gaming or games.
Time for bed.
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Mora Grissum just reinforces the stereotype that girls always come in third behind peripheral-obsessed future date rapists and autistic nine-year olds.
"...instead of posting photos of yourself."
Now let's not get any crazy ideas here.
Cereally tho...great read. I actually never really get tired of these discussions. It's always interesting to hear everyone's thought.
*builds pillow fort for .tiff
Huzzah!
*runs away on coconut-hooved horse
I have a dream...that one day, we will live in a world where gamers will be judged not by their gender or beauty, but by their skill in playing, and passion for, video games
...but sadly, that isn’t likely. People love their stereotypes.
I agree that if someone only posts up pics of themselves in certain costumes, or even writes only about certain things, then they can only expect to be judged on those things. But take poor Jade Raymond as a horrific example of how women are judged on the internet. It's not everyone, but the majority of people see a picture of a girl (or a guy for that matter) and immediately form an opinion of them purely based on that, regardless of what they have defined themselves as through their writing, before or after the photos go up.
I have found that, disregarding the general banter that accompanies almost every post, that people on here are very accepting of others and try to base their opinion on everything they can find on each other. It's better than most sites for that.
If people write about stuff I want to read about, I'll read and comment. I hate stereotyping and really try to avoid it.
I just detest any kind of segregation. Trying to gain "acceptance" by segregating yourself from the mases is just not a good way to go.
I'm glad that people are starting to talk about this. The subject of "grrl" gamers is something I could talk about for days. To see .Tiff and Virtualgirl post a response to the Reverend Rant is awesome. It's what helps to set them apart and shows that they are truly passionate about gaming, imo.
Nicely done. I really just switch off my brain when I read about most "girl gamer" bullshit. It's like that "casual gamer" stuff too. Stop assigning labels and just play the fucking games, please.
I guess the other really problem are the girl gamers made for the media and do it willingly either for the attention or even the money (ads, promotions, etc). It gives the other real female gamers a shit start in entering the gaming community.
Of course we too are at fault. Though the demographic for male gamers is changing, it hasn't changed enough, let alone their own stereo type, So when any non brown bagger games and so much as posts an avatar of a pic we want hot cosplay/self pics. After that then maybe... possibly would we ask what they thought of a particular game but THAT isn't even the case. After judging their appearance and approving, most male gamers go straight for let's validate her gaming skill because the media whores out there has given them that stigma... an attention whore monger. After that... THEN maybe we will listen to them if we haven't already scared them off.
It's easy to say just do it (Change) but if that were the case... playing Halo 3 on live would be a more pleasant experience. Me being the pessimist... good luck with that.
I enjoyed reading this because it is very much opposed to VirtualGirl's thoughts though both remain valid. I find it interesting that VirtualGirl's personal story made you see her pictures in a positive light. But now do you feel that every other "nerd sex object" on the internet must justify her images in a similar way to be respected?
Also, what responsibility does the creator of a "nerd sex image" have once the image has been taken away from them by the mass media? Does a filmmaker bear responsibility if his movie is ripped away from him and shown to an audience who, incapable of understanding its true meaning, begin to riot?
Girls who like games? Psh..
@Glipe The Jade Raymond instance resonates entirely with the surface level instance. The state that the male gaming demographic is unfortunately prescribed with is that if they see any images of an attractive female despite their intelligence, poise, classiness or whatever, the overall reaction is going to be about her looks or her sex. It's clear that Ubisoft was taking advantage of this fact as a means of selling their games by celebritizing and thus commoditizing women in gaming, much like they do with the Frag Dolls.
I have to get to work, but I'll likely respond to Bus and Electrobes later...
Word. Substance before style.
Not that style isn't important, which I think it TOTALLY is (see the site mascot), but the establishment of real cake is more important than the frosting.
amen.
Are people concerned that I, as a male gamer, will somehow be misled and assume that scantily-clad nerdcore models know how to breed a gold chocobo? That, knowing this, I will want to breed with these women and produce superior gamer children who can traverse all terrain and are named after the Contra code?
Guys can tell the difference between a woman who is a "serious" gamer (and as an avid gamer, I ask: why would you ever be serious about games?) and one who is seeking attention. We like to enjoy both. It's sort of like complaining that guys who only play Madden are somehow detrimental to the rest of the gaming world, and we all know gamers would never complain about that.
@Maxvest You stated matter of factly that you, as a representative of the 'guys', like to enjoy both women who game and women who game who are looking for attention by the means which I am attacking above. Why isn't it the same way for 'the girls'? Why can't I approach the gaming industry and enjoy an onslaught of hunked out, ethnic ambiguous males seeking my attention as well those who just 'enjoy games'. And in context of that question, why would I even consider that the former has anything to do with gaming in the first place?
It's clear that the industry is male-oriented and lopsided to that respect, and is demonstrated between your casual regard that you as a male have the opportunity to revel as you choose between the girl who is a 'serious gamer' and the girl who is 'just looking for attention'. It's perverse and frustrating to watch gaming turn into a celebrity shit-show and frankly the more popular gaming gets as a medium the more I see it follow the same arc that reality television, tabloids, and sitcoms have done to our culture. That is what I'm most concerned about. Wouldn't it be nice if gaming didn't surmount to all that crap in the end? It won't happen, but it'd be nice.
Excellent write-up, tiff.
One of the problems with the Internet is that it's incredibly easy to be grouped into categories, and . People who are newer to the whole gamer girl thing seem to be the ones falling more into the whole posting scantily-clad pics or the whole sexing up of the girl gamer, and on top of that comes the fact that the media portrays girl gamers as something to be worshipped because they're supposed to be these beautiful, model-like women who just happen to play games. To be honest, as a long-time gamer who has grown up with two sisters who are just as hardcore a gamer as I am, I've never been too heavily affected by the whole thing; girl gamers have always seemed natural. On top of that, while looks matter a tiny bit when it comes to girls, I've always been far more interested in personality. However, I've long been saddened by the fact that girls aren't being looked at so much for their skill anymore as their beauty. There are some beautiful girls out there who are amazing gamers that could wipe the floor with me, yet that's not what everyone seems to see.
The only way I see this changing is if our perceptions as a culture change on what the girl gamer is, which is something about a million times easier said than done. Does beauty matter more than skill? If so, then the leaderboards of just about every game would be led by the supermodels and actresses of the world (not to be confused with Aktrez, who is actually a really cool person). I just kind of wish people didn't see a pair of boobs and a controller, but saw that girls and guys are really not as different as we generally think.
@Tiff: I apologize if I put you on the defensive with my chocobo jokes. If there were groups of hunked out, ethnically ambiguous gamer men seeking your attention, I wouldn't dream of stopping you from ogling them or trying to flirt. Trust me, I would be just as casual and matter-of-fact about your options as I am about mine. Games should allow one to enjoy oneself, n'est-ce pas?
It seems as though you feel that grrl gamers contribute to sexism in the gaming industry by feeding the fantasies of men. I might point out that at least most grrl gamers are not airbrushed, siliconed, god-knows-what-they've-waxed models. They are real girls, unlike the polygonal ones in videogames who are created and scripted by men. Are they fulfilling male fantasies, or fulfilling their own? Both? I don't know.
Anyway, I enjoyed reading your thoughts on the matter.
@MaxVest I appreciated your reply and sorry, I meant to express that your chocobo jokes were all in good humor.
I would like to get back to you on your comment and my thoughts at some point, perhaps in another post ... Sadly, my current state of delerium due to lack of sleep after writing last night has left me in a state of haze-y articulation.
To be continued I suppose, but really, I do welcome your personal responses! Apologies if I was *edgey* in my last response, I'm only on my third cup of coffee :)
@Tiff: It's fine, we're all a bit edgey when we're half-awake :-)
.tiff, grab your pink DS and go back to the kitchen with your Cooking w/ Mama and Imagine Babyz games.
Let the men folk woe you with their one one-on-one fests of Hyper Beat Meat Master MX Alpha Championship Edition Turbo.
Tiff: Great piece of work. I understand your reluctance to talk about this with the public Dtoid community. I also agree that while the whole “STFJPG” mentality works in theory, it does not when the larger issue is something that the industry itself has adopted.
My minor is in journalism and mass communications, so I am somewhat familiar with McLuhan’s work. I agree that it is a bad decision to use your image first and foremost as a method of gaining respect. Unless you are a full time professional model, your looks have little to do with your other more valuable qualities. On the other hand, I don’t think that taking the offending types of photos is necessarily the problem; it is when they are used out of context. As I talked about in my blog, I feel that to some people take these sorts of sexualized images as a form of self-expression, even if we don’t understand it. When these photos are taken out of their original context, the person they portray is reduced down to that one physical imprint. However, if the picture were on their Myspace page, along with some writing samples or some of their gamer statistics, it would have a whole different meaning.
I realize that you make this point, “Because these photos are circulated within and are part of the mass media in which personal intentions, general goodwill, and individual personalities behind the image are altogether ignored, erased, and replaced with the surface level meaning. Period.” As a collective whole, I admit that the type of pictures you talk about can be detrimental and encourage stereotypes, but we multiply the effect by buying in to those stereotypes instead of thinking of these girls as individuals.
If we all say that females are not allowed to take sexualized images because it might encourage stereotypes, I feel we are severally stunting self-expression. This is why I don’t see the message as entirely black and white. The inherent nature of people makes the issue full of shades of grey. I also don’t feel that a female is automatically setting herself apart by posting ANY photo of herself in a public forum. We have picture threads for a reason, but if a female posts a picture – even a non-sexual picture – it is common for others to think there is some sort of ulterior motive. I guess they feel that way because of the plethora of sexualized female images out there. It is a Catch 22 - how do you keep from limiting self-expression while not being detrimental to the general representation of females?
Ugh…I really have no answer to this, but talking with all of you has helped to bring up some great points. I am having a great time reading everyone’s perspectives!
why doesn't anybody take me for cereal?
I apologize, i just had to post it. It is too good.
Because you are too sexy to be taken cereal Ted!
I am not currently in a state of mind to say anything even remotely productive or interesting, but I would like to say, "I agree. Good write-up."
I agree. Good write-up.
Great job .tiff!
Yes. Pretty much girls posing semi nude with video games really has nothing to do with games. Unless it's advertising. But girls who write about games, who share their experiences and stories with them, now that's contributing to the gaming dialogue from a female perspective. That is good, sexualizing and objectifying yourself and then whining about how you are sexualized and objectified? Reality check please. Screw sexual empowerment, how about person empowerment?