surf dtoid with 
Rising (10+)
People you follow
send message
follow
followers
I’m reminded of Manhunt which was temporally banned in the UK, still is banned here in Ireland, and nobody gives a shit, because they’re apparently dreadful games.
Suda 51, by sheer virtue of being Suda 51, will always have the benefit of the doubt. When something is terrible in his games someone will always claim it was supposed to be terrible and you just “didn’t get it”. I actually like what games of his I’ve played, or rather, like the ideas of his games, but the man does get away with murder sometimes, especially in the gameplay department. I wish he’d just farm out the gameplay to someone like Platinum, like Konami did with Metal Gear Rising.
Suda 51, by sheer virtue of being Suda 51, will always have the benefit of the doubt. When something is terrible in his games someone will always claim it was supposed to be terrible and you just “didn’t get it”. I actually like what games of his I’ve played, or rather, like the ideas of his games, but the man does get away with murder sometimes, especially in the gameplay department. I wish he’d just farm out the gameplay to someone like Platinum, like Konami did with Metal Gear Rising.
Rent it, hey...I would but there are no video stores in my area anymore. :(
Suda 51 has made some neat, solid games. But No More Heroes was vastly overrated in my opinion, so I think too that he gets far more street cred then is maybe deserved.
Suda 51 has made some neat, solid games. But No More Heroes was vastly overrated in my opinion, so I think too that he gets far more street cred then is maybe deserved.
I vehemently disagree with your feelings towards LC, but that was a well written and thoughtful blog. Kudos
You say that voting with your wallet is such a great concept, but what about all the good games that nobody bought because they had bad marketing behind them or no marketing even? Is the answer to that just 'fuck em', they should have had a better marketing budget?' Or is the PR and marketing actually an intrinsic aspect of what makes a game fun to play? Because, as it turns out, Lollipop Chainsaw has next to jack shit for sexual content, but you wouldn't know that without playing it.
So, essentially what you did was you read some negative reviews and maybe saw a commercial with Jessica Nigri in it looking sexy and said to yourself 'Boobs? in MY video games? Not on your life son!' and then proceeded to write about how bad it probably was, as justified by the reviews you read for it, and decided that it wasn't worth your money.
Now, I'm not calling you Hitler because you didn't like a game that I liked. I'm just saying this isn't some sort of isolated incident. Chances are that there are a lot of people out there doing the same thing and lo and behold, this pretty fun game might be condemned to obscurity as a result just because Grasshopper got another tough break on reviews and publicity.
So whereas you might see a stupid controversy over a stupid game dying down when everyone sees how bad it really is, I see a really cool game by a small developer selling like shit again because of bad publicity and a myopic audience.
So, essentially what you did was you read some negative reviews and maybe saw a commercial with Jessica Nigri in it looking sexy and said to yourself 'Boobs? in MY video games? Not on your life son!' and then proceeded to write about how bad it probably was, as justified by the reviews you read for it, and decided that it wasn't worth your money.
Now, I'm not calling you Hitler because you didn't like a game that I liked. I'm just saying this isn't some sort of isolated incident. Chances are that there are a lot of people out there doing the same thing and lo and behold, this pretty fun game might be condemned to obscurity as a result just because Grasshopper got another tough break on reviews and publicity.
So whereas you might see a stupid controversy over a stupid game dying down when everyone sees how bad it really is, I see a really cool game by a small developer selling like shit again because of bad publicity and a myopic audience.
The reactions to this so far are the reason why I dont hold any stock in myself as a writer. I should really have picked another game to use as an example besides LC because at the end of the day, this was about controversy in games, and how their success ultimately dictates how the controversy is handled, and not about LC at all.
But to step aside for a moment and talk about LC, I will say this; apart from it apparently NOT being overtly sexualized (I would like to make it clear that I didnt offer my actual opinion on the games content at all, racy or not. I was just using it as an example of things people get fired up about, for any reason, and how the conversation becomes irrelevant if the game is not successful.) the way the game was marketed DOES have a negative effect on my wanting to purchase it. I have a wife and a daughter both of who are usually around when I play these things, so regardless of how apparently fun it is, I know I would receive an eye roll of death if I popped a game about a scantily clad cheerleader beheading zombies into my console. Frankly, it looks silly and fun to me, but others would not perceive it to be that way, which is why people were talking about it in the first place.
Lets forget about LC for a second though.
@stubbleman - This wasnt about marketing or budget and I really dont get where you took that from at all. Its hard to answer to you because what you are asking me has no relevance to the core point of my blog. I didnt decide to base my opinion of LC on negative reviews either because again, it wasnt about me liking or not liking it, but about the fact that it ultimately will not be a runaway smash hit. Because of that, any controversy, no matter HOW misplaced (and I agree that it probably is misplaced since apart from chainsaws and panty shots, there is nothing that seems particularly subversive about it) will boil down to nothing, whereas a game like GTA being very successful will have a lasting impact on the direction the industry takes, and will have parent groups all over it for years to come. Just like how the success of DOOM still kept it in the public eye during the Columbine incident, even though the game was practically ancient and totally irrelevant by the time that incident occurred.
I wish in retrospect that I would have made it clearer that I really dont have anything against Lollipop at all; I was just as disinterested before it came out as I was after, and it was the absolute last thing on my radar this year. So take this with a grain of salt; it isnt a blog about why you shouldnt purchase or enjoy LC, its simply a very poorly written, articulated blog about how controversy becomes irrelevant in the face of commercial failure. It also used LC as an example which after reading your last paragraph made me realize it was a really poor choice indeed, since ultimately comparing LC to games like Thrill Kill and Night Trap IS ridiculously unfair considering the latter have no value whatsoever, whereas LC just looks like a moderately fun, mostly harmless action game.
Im not gonna quit my day job is what Im saying, and that is why I like posting here; when you write something sucky, people call you on it and you have to own up. So thanks for all the comments.
But to step aside for a moment and talk about LC, I will say this; apart from it apparently NOT being overtly sexualized (I would like to make it clear that I didnt offer my actual opinion on the games content at all, racy or not. I was just using it as an example of things people get fired up about, for any reason, and how the conversation becomes irrelevant if the game is not successful.) the way the game was marketed DOES have a negative effect on my wanting to purchase it. I have a wife and a daughter both of who are usually around when I play these things, so regardless of how apparently fun it is, I know I would receive an eye roll of death if I popped a game about a scantily clad cheerleader beheading zombies into my console. Frankly, it looks silly and fun to me, but others would not perceive it to be that way, which is why people were talking about it in the first place.
Lets forget about LC for a second though.
@stubbleman - This wasnt about marketing or budget and I really dont get where you took that from at all. Its hard to answer to you because what you are asking me has no relevance to the core point of my blog. I didnt decide to base my opinion of LC on negative reviews either because again, it wasnt about me liking or not liking it, but about the fact that it ultimately will not be a runaway smash hit. Because of that, any controversy, no matter HOW misplaced (and I agree that it probably is misplaced since apart from chainsaws and panty shots, there is nothing that seems particularly subversive about it) will boil down to nothing, whereas a game like GTA being very successful will have a lasting impact on the direction the industry takes, and will have parent groups all over it for years to come. Just like how the success of DOOM still kept it in the public eye during the Columbine incident, even though the game was practically ancient and totally irrelevant by the time that incident occurred.
I wish in retrospect that I would have made it clearer that I really dont have anything against Lollipop at all; I was just as disinterested before it came out as I was after, and it was the absolute last thing on my radar this year. So take this with a grain of salt; it isnt a blog about why you shouldnt purchase or enjoy LC, its simply a very poorly written, articulated blog about how controversy becomes irrelevant in the face of commercial failure. It also used LC as an example which after reading your last paragraph made me realize it was a really poor choice indeed, since ultimately comparing LC to games like Thrill Kill and Night Trap IS ridiculously unfair considering the latter have no value whatsoever, whereas LC just looks like a moderately fun, mostly harmless action game.
Im not gonna quit my day job is what Im saying, and that is why I like posting here; when you write something sucky, people call you on it and you have to own up. So thanks for all the comments.
How many times have gamers seen a sexy female character and assumed the game was about sex?
Bayonetta, Catherine and now Lollipop Chainsaw.
How many focused on sex?
None. Bayonets and LC were provacative and little else, meanwhile Catherine is far and away more mature than the laughable nature of most M-rated games. Catherine's plot is driven by sexual indiscretions, but beyond a provacative character, very little of the game is about sex.
People who worry about and object to things of a sexual nature also tend to be the people that are the most fixated on sex in thier own lives as well as the lives of others. That or because they cant get any. It's actually kind of sad.
Bayonetta, Catherine and now Lollipop Chainsaw.
How many focused on sex?
None. Bayonets and LC were provacative and little else, meanwhile Catherine is far and away more mature than the laughable nature of most M-rated games. Catherine's plot is driven by sexual indiscretions, but beyond a provacative character, very little of the game is about sex.
People who worry about and object to things of a sexual nature also tend to be the people that are the most fixated on sex in thier own lives as well as the lives of others. That or because they cant get any. It's actually kind of sad.
I'm not entirely sure what your main point was supposed to be. Here's what I thought the crux of your point was.
"Far more offensive than boobs, bondage, and things blowing up is a worthless piece of shit game. And it is just nice to see that regardless of all these other factors, this is still what really matters, and still what ultimately drives the evolution of the industry."
I interpreted that as meaning that good games mostly sell well, so, thankfully, all those bad games end up fading to obscurity. That way, if a game comes out that's provocative, you will know pretty well if it will be influential to the game industry by it's sales numbers, like the game industry is some sort of meritocracy. I don't think that it's merit that ultimately drives the evolution of the industry though. It's probably money, or marketing more specifically.
That's why I talked about marketing, because I honestly think that marketing has a lot to do with what public opinion on a game is. And you're right. What sells is what ultimately ends up determining the direction of the industry. But when the bajillionth iteration of the drab, modern military shooter is what's selling, then I can't see that as a good thing. I guess as long as the games you like are selling well then all seems right with the world, but if they aren't selling well then it kinda sucks pretty hard.
So yeah, when you imply that nobody is going to care about a Suda 51 game a year from now, that doesn't strike me as something to get excited about. It's something I really want to rebel against.
"Far more offensive than boobs, bondage, and things blowing up is a worthless piece of shit game. And it is just nice to see that regardless of all these other factors, this is still what really matters, and still what ultimately drives the evolution of the industry."
I interpreted that as meaning that good games mostly sell well, so, thankfully, all those bad games end up fading to obscurity. That way, if a game comes out that's provocative, you will know pretty well if it will be influential to the game industry by it's sales numbers, like the game industry is some sort of meritocracy. I don't think that it's merit that ultimately drives the evolution of the industry though. It's probably money, or marketing more specifically.
That's why I talked about marketing, because I honestly think that marketing has a lot to do with what public opinion on a game is. And you're right. What sells is what ultimately ends up determining the direction of the industry. But when the bajillionth iteration of the drab, modern military shooter is what's selling, then I can't see that as a good thing. I guess as long as the games you like are selling well then all seems right with the world, but if they aren't selling well then it kinda sucks pretty hard.
So yeah, when you imply that nobody is going to care about a Suda 51 game a year from now, that doesn't strike me as something to get excited about. It's something I really want to rebel against.
Okay well again, I wont blame anyone for misinterpreting my point. That was my failure as a writer, plain and simple.
What I was TRYING to say was that regardless of all the controversies out there, the risque marketing, or even plain socially irresponsible titles, such as Thrill Kill, ultimately what everything boils down to is simply; is the game good or not. If it isnt, all the mature content in the world wont save it, and if it isnt, anything negative it might have explored becomes irrelevant because upon its failure to actually be a decent game, it becomes forgotten and fails to have an impact on the industry at large.
I will agree with you on the drab games saturating the market, which is why I made the Michael Bay reference. Awful schlock which makes money influencing the industry is an unfortunate side effect of what money does to producers and developers alike. That is why we have so many MMOs, so many games which focus around so called mature (aka, greyish brownish and bloody) content. Its not a reality I particularly like. Anything I was being positive about in the article was the fact that we still live in a world where quality means something, and in an industry and community which is so often focused on the flotsam and jetsam, it still really all boils down to how good a game is.
I dont care what anyone says about the Call of Duty series, they ARE good quality games, and if you are looking for a decent FPS, there isnt much better out there. It isnt BECAUSE they are drab and military and that is what is popular right now; they succeed because they are actually fun to play. Lollipop Chainsaw may be great, and in retrospect I really REALLY regret dragging it into the equation at all. But its success will not rely on having a sexy blonde protagonist or being chock full of zombies being dismembered, it will rely on the gameplay. If that fails to impress, the entire package will, and I personally think that is a positive thing.
A lot of games which come through are unfortunately missed regardless of their quality, and that makes me sad. So you are right to bring up marketing in that sense. But word of mouth about an extremely good game seems to spread as well. It sure worked for something like Minecraft, which otherwise on its surface just looks like some weird, anomolous, dated thing, when really its a great experience no one should miss; and judging by the sales numbers, no one did because it was a great game, and great games are USUALLY recognized.
I hope that clears my point up. I will admit writing a shitty article, but I dont want to come off as being ignorant after the fact, or have people think that I was burning LC for no reason. It was a shit example I realized, and I cant properly articulate what I originally meant so Im going to just shut up about it now I think.
What I was TRYING to say was that regardless of all the controversies out there, the risque marketing, or even plain socially irresponsible titles, such as Thrill Kill, ultimately what everything boils down to is simply; is the game good or not. If it isnt, all the mature content in the world wont save it, and if it isnt, anything negative it might have explored becomes irrelevant because upon its failure to actually be a decent game, it becomes forgotten and fails to have an impact on the industry at large.
I will agree with you on the drab games saturating the market, which is why I made the Michael Bay reference. Awful schlock which makes money influencing the industry is an unfortunate side effect of what money does to producers and developers alike. That is why we have so many MMOs, so many games which focus around so called mature (aka, greyish brownish and bloody) content. Its not a reality I particularly like. Anything I was being positive about in the article was the fact that we still live in a world where quality means something, and in an industry and community which is so often focused on the flotsam and jetsam, it still really all boils down to how good a game is.
I dont care what anyone says about the Call of Duty series, they ARE good quality games, and if you are looking for a decent FPS, there isnt much better out there. It isnt BECAUSE they are drab and military and that is what is popular right now; they succeed because they are actually fun to play. Lollipop Chainsaw may be great, and in retrospect I really REALLY regret dragging it into the equation at all. But its success will not rely on having a sexy blonde protagonist or being chock full of zombies being dismembered, it will rely on the gameplay. If that fails to impress, the entire package will, and I personally think that is a positive thing.
A lot of games which come through are unfortunately missed regardless of their quality, and that makes me sad. So you are right to bring up marketing in that sense. But word of mouth about an extremely good game seems to spread as well. It sure worked for something like Minecraft, which otherwise on its surface just looks like some weird, anomolous, dated thing, when really its a great experience no one should miss; and judging by the sales numbers, no one did because it was a great game, and great games are USUALLY recognized.
I hope that clears my point up. I will admit writing a shitty article, but I dont want to come off as being ignorant after the fact, or have people think that I was burning LC for no reason. It was a shit example I realized, and I cant properly articulate what I originally meant so Im going to just shut up about it now I think.
One thing I dont really understand still however is everyone automatically assuming that a Suda 51 game is going to be some special, memorable thing, at least from personal experience. Killer7 was definitely worth my time, but again, I played No More Heroes and thought it was sloppy, broken shit. The bosses were definitely a bit of fun initially, but it lost my attention really fast due to every other element of the gameplay. The guy has an absolutely A M A Z I N G sense of style, but fuck was that game ever a drag to play, at least for me personally. Fun to watch, though; I think Ill check out some LC longplays at some point just to see if it has the same quality.
The way you're willing to give COD the benefit of the doubt, so too am I willing to give Suda the benefit of the doubt.
No More Heroes was deliberately dull, repetitive, and lacking in detail outside the main missions in order to help drive the underlying message of the work (gaming as escapism), though it's debatable if that's fair to the costumer.
Same thing with Shadows of the Damned and his caricature of macho men with big phallic guns as a current trope in videogames, which offended some people (that's the whole point!). Anyway, Lollipop is relatively tame compared to his former works, and seems like he finally hit the nail between "manifesto" and "gameplay", and in the end drives a good point, as it shows Juliet and her sisters being every bit as badass and capable as their father. But, yeah, the way it was marketed is not helping it at all =/ Give it a rent though, it's lots of fun!
Same thing with Shadows of the Damned and his caricature of macho men with big phallic guns as a current trope in videogames, which offended some people (that's the whole point!). Anyway, Lollipop is relatively tame compared to his former works, and seems like he finally hit the nail between "manifesto" and "gameplay", and in the end drives a good point, as it shows Juliet and her sisters being every bit as badass and capable as their father. But, yeah, the way it was marketed is not helping it at all =/ Give it a rent though, it's lots of fun!
I know I say it every time... but I really do enjoy your writing style! It rarely fails to elicit a laugh from me! :)
I don't know that Lollipop Chainsaw is the best example... but you are very right that often the controversy surrounding a game lasts longer than the game itself. How many people did buy Manhunt or Postal 2... but then again, controversy was a large part of the marketing for COD: MW2 and the "no russian" level and the game sold exceptionally well.
It would certainly be interesting to see statistics on how a game is marketed and the final result in terms of sales!
I don't know that Lollipop Chainsaw is the best example... but you are very right that often the controversy surrounding a game lasts longer than the game itself. How many people did buy Manhunt or Postal 2... but then again, controversy was a large part of the marketing for COD: MW2 and the "no russian" level and the game sold exceptionally well.
It would certainly be interesting to see statistics on how a game is marketed and the final result in terms of sales!
@Siegfried - As a gamer on a budget, I really have no time for that kind of purposely pretentious artsy nonsense. I understand trying to make a point, but if your point means making me actively slog through a bunch of awful shit, I am not buying. In fact knowing that makes me dislike the game even more, because the potential was certainly there.
At the risk of sounding like an unfair baby, screw Suda 51 and his bullshit messages. Not because he is a hack, but because the guy is a borderline genius when it comes to artistry, but it would be great to see it attached to a truly great game.
Now I am more curious to try Lollipop, and despite all of your suggestions, dammit, I cant rent it! Rogers and Blockbuster both went bankrupt here. My only choice is to take advantage of the kindness of my more compulsive friends when they inevitably purchase the game. And since a few of them will buy anything with a remote glimpse of anime sideboob, Im sure one of the degenerates is bound to take Lollipop the WRONG way, and literally buy it because it has a hot chick on the cover...even if that is really not the product it is selling at all!
At the risk of sounding like an unfair baby, screw Suda 51 and his bullshit messages. Not because he is a hack, but because the guy is a borderline genius when it comes to artistry, but it would be great to see it attached to a truly great game.
Now I am more curious to try Lollipop, and despite all of your suggestions, dammit, I cant rent it! Rogers and Blockbuster both went bankrupt here. My only choice is to take advantage of the kindness of my more compulsive friends when they inevitably purchase the game. And since a few of them will buy anything with a remote glimpse of anime sideboob, Im sure one of the degenerates is bound to take Lollipop the WRONG way, and literally buy it because it has a hot chick on the cover...even if that is really not the product it is selling at all!
Now I feel like a hipster, haha... time to get on some Splatterhouse to take the stink off a little :P But yeah, it's harsh to ask full price for something that experimental, on the good side his games tend to drop on price rapidly because of their nature (I got my No More Heroes for like $15 dollars and there were still like 6 more used ones -and Radiant Dawn new for $20! Talk about unaprecciated-), so if none of your friends end falling for it, just wait a little. Just looked at Handy's post.... a Suda game on hands of Platinum = mindblow. Seriously, make that happen!
"Catherine is far and away more mature than the laughable nature of most M-rated games."
Regardless of the topic - this - so hard!
But yea Manchild, if you enjoy entertaining action games, you should like LC - look for it on a pricecut, or if you have any local friends, try and borrow it. On Normal the combat system is fairly simple, and the game is really easy to get into/plow through in a couple of days (even for someone who has a busy schedule such as yourself).
As for the content, as a hardcore Suda fan, I think it's funny that people seem to think *this* is his most offense work. His previous titles features no less than dead babies hanging from trees, skimpy females having their throats slit constantly and tortured both sexually and physically, and a game where you play as a psycho assassin that murders (sometimes) innocent people.
Juliet only fights evil, and it's clear from the beginning of the game that she's a wholly good person (as opposed to Garcia and Travis, both of whom are fairly selfish/hotheaded - which is the point of said characters, but still, I see Juliet as a more positive role model). Rant aside, other than simply foul language, I think this is one of his most tame titles.
<3
Regardless of the topic - this - so hard!
But yea Manchild, if you enjoy entertaining action games, you should like LC - look for it on a pricecut, or if you have any local friends, try and borrow it. On Normal the combat system is fairly simple, and the game is really easy to get into/plow through in a couple of days (even for someone who has a busy schedule such as yourself).
As for the content, as a hardcore Suda fan, I think it's funny that people seem to think *this* is his most offense work. His previous titles features no less than dead babies hanging from trees, skimpy females having their throats slit constantly and tortured both sexually and physically, and a game where you play as a psycho assassin that murders (sometimes) innocent people.
Juliet only fights evil, and it's clear from the beginning of the game that she's a wholly good person (as opposed to Garcia and Travis, both of whom are fairly selfish/hotheaded - which is the point of said characters, but still, I see Juliet as a more positive role model). Rant aside, other than simply foul language, I think this is one of his most tame titles.
<3
Yeah agreed, I remember Killer 7 having a lot of truly fucked up moments. I was even fairly surprised at the mature content in No More Heroes, based on the fact that it was a Wii game and all. I am definitely interested in trying LC, I was watching gameplay videos today. I definitely like the style, but the slow action I was witnessing has me a little worried. There is only one way to find out of course and I will try to find an opportunity to check the game out for sure.
Regarding LC's combat, I'm going to paste a reply I wrote from the forums,
"In normal mode, getting hit hardly damages you, just interrupts and slows you down. Since that gameplay doesn't reinforce the importance of dodging, you're left getting nicked and held up, and I think that's why people are calling it slow and clunky. Once you learn how to dodge (which might not even seem necessary until hard mode), the gameplay can become a very satisfying, frenetic experience. The mechanics are all very precise, have two layers of depth based on how you time the inputs, and even three enemies can require you to remain hyper-aware of their attacks and how to respond. I was really surprised at how fun it is."
It definitely doesn't feel slow when you're playing it and trying to avoid getting hit. The game is Buffy the Zombie Hunter. It's fun, funny, and worth mentioning in any conversation about action games, zombies, or humor. The 'controversy' was not worth its breath to begin with, so it would be a shame if that misguided talk-storm of hot air outlasts anything regarding the actual quality of the game.
Not a huge fan of Killer 7 or NMH. Haven't played Shadows of the Damned. Love God Hand and Lollipop Chainsaw, though.
"In normal mode, getting hit hardly damages you, just interrupts and slows you down. Since that gameplay doesn't reinforce the importance of dodging, you're left getting nicked and held up, and I think that's why people are calling it slow and clunky. Once you learn how to dodge (which might not even seem necessary until hard mode), the gameplay can become a very satisfying, frenetic experience. The mechanics are all very precise, have two layers of depth based on how you time the inputs, and even three enemies can require you to remain hyper-aware of their attacks and how to respond. I was really surprised at how fun it is."
It definitely doesn't feel slow when you're playing it and trying to avoid getting hit. The game is Buffy the Zombie Hunter. It's fun, funny, and worth mentioning in any conversation about action games, zombies, or humor. The 'controversy' was not worth its breath to begin with, so it would be a shame if that misguided talk-storm of hot air outlasts anything regarding the actual quality of the game.
Not a huge fan of Killer 7 or NMH. Haven't played Shadows of the Damned. Love God Hand and Lollipop Chainsaw, though.
