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Good points. I got an idea while reading this. How about a "Journey-approach" instead?
I mean, say you're just playing your regular Pokemon single-player game and if you happen to be in an area that another player is also in in their own game, you would appear in each others game. I'm not sure if I'm explaining this in a good way, but it would be like randomly running into another player in Journey. And since it's a Nintendo-game, you could simply have some basic communication commands like Battle, Trade, Add Friend etc.
I mean, say you're just playing your regular Pokemon single-player game and if you happen to be in an area that another player is also in in their own game, you would appear in each others game. I'm not sure if I'm explaining this in a good way, but it would be like randomly running into another player in Journey. And since it's a Nintendo-game, you could simply have some basic communication commands like Battle, Trade, Add Friend etc.
@arkane - If it were just a drop in/ out thing like Boarderlands, it's more feasable, but I think the handheld element is what helps keep Pokémon genuinely social rather than just "online" social.
So basically you are saying that if Pokemon became a mmo it would lose fun, because players would lose the ability to do it the way they want.
Well you are right and somewhat wrong.
First pokemon MMO (PMMO) would be a individual game and the handheld version would be separate. Many will play the Pmmo and other will play the Handheld on based on taste.
The pmmo can be both competitive and casual as well depending on player choice,
There can be one area that allows for players to fight the gym battle and elite 4 and a pvp section or torment area. However, implementing the legendary will be tricky, there cant be one. They have to be realy hard to get and only in limited time slots, like only available on a full moon or something like that. For the pmmo completely new generation would be best and exclusive to the mmo. Using old or shared generation will cause 2 problems
1 people may want to import Pokemon from other games.
2 An exclusive set will allow the game not to have to compete with non mmo pokemon games nor have to keep in sinc with their story.
Finally, in the case of freedom and doing it right, that is partially subjective.
1 don't have a team of one element, as diversification is important.
unless the group will have special need of element focused players.
2 different move sets for each Pokemon will very and some combos will work better than others, however people willl always experment to see what works better
3 with added content the landscape always changes
Well you are right and somewhat wrong.
First pokemon MMO (PMMO) would be a individual game and the handheld version would be separate. Many will play the Pmmo and other will play the Handheld on based on taste.
The pmmo can be both competitive and casual as well depending on player choice,
There can be one area that allows for players to fight the gym battle and elite 4 and a pvp section or torment area. However, implementing the legendary will be tricky, there cant be one. They have to be realy hard to get and only in limited time slots, like only available on a full moon or something like that. For the pmmo completely new generation would be best and exclusive to the mmo. Using old or shared generation will cause 2 problems
1 people may want to import Pokemon from other games.
2 An exclusive set will allow the game not to have to compete with non mmo pokemon games nor have to keep in sinc with their story.
Finally, in the case of freedom and doing it right, that is partially subjective.
1 don't have a team of one element, as diversification is important.
unless the group will have special need of element focused players.
2 different move sets for each Pokemon will very and some combos will work better than others, however people willl always experment to see what works better
3 with added content the landscape always changes
The closest Pokemon should ever get to an MMO would probably be a digimon MMO. No seriously look at the first two series of digimon. Expansive world, plenty of villains, plenty of opportunity for variety not just efficiency digimon was almost written as taking place in an MMO while pokemon for the most part isn't so much as short of going out fighting and catching and fighting one another its not many huge stories that can be told in that world.
There are a lot of good points here, but maybe in 10 years if the series is dead, resurrecting it with some sort of massively multiplayer Pokemon idea could scratch that itch.
I have more than a few issues with your articles message. First, you make the classic ignorant assumption that "All MMOs are WoW". The assumption that to be a MMO it has to play like every other MMO on the market. That alone completely invalidates your argument.
Nintendo and Publishers that have collaborated with them in the past are the kind of crowd that absolutely loves to try new things. That's what even launched their console career in the first place. I can show you more than a few N64 games that pioneered their own style, and even more on newer consoles. As a fellow commenter stated recent Nintendo offerings have been playing with a Massive Singleplayer World that other players can tamper with.
You can assume that any Nintendo MMO offering is going to break the mold as much as it can. Its still going to be much like a Pokemon game, but likely be much easier to challenge players to Pokemon fights. Your sole argument is referencing end-game content for TRADITIONAL online games, which I must remind you are becoming more and more outdated in concept.
Nintendo and Publishers that have collaborated with them in the past are the kind of crowd that absolutely loves to try new things. That's what even launched their console career in the first place. I can show you more than a few N64 games that pioneered their own style, and even more on newer consoles. As a fellow commenter stated recent Nintendo offerings have been playing with a Massive Singleplayer World that other players can tamper with.
You can assume that any Nintendo MMO offering is going to break the mold as much as it can. Its still going to be much like a Pokemon game, but likely be much easier to challenge players to Pokemon fights. Your sole argument is referencing end-game content for TRADITIONAL online games, which I must remind you are becoming more and more outdated in concept.
@Robert - Funny, I said nothing about WoW or how certain MMOs play. I stated how communities and time alter the experience, even pointing to Pokémon itself to show how it's multiplayer is wildly different and potentially less enjoyable for all the baggage it adds.
I don't want a Pokemon MMO. Hell, I'd be thrilled if someone could honestly tell me that no MMO would ever be made again. What I would like to see is a Pokemon game with some ambition. Nintendo has been coasting creatively for quite a long time now.
Great article and absolutely true. Also going with Carter's point though. Even though I have a competitive team, I don't like the idea of an MMO any time soon.
@Silent
Yes you did, mentioning all of the end game MMO stuff very unique to those kinds of games. Strictly a part of the traditional Wow-like MMORPG. Not new to gaming theory huh?
Yes you did, mentioning all of the end game MMO stuff very unique to those kinds of games. Strictly a part of the traditional Wow-like MMORPG. Not new to gaming theory huh?
You are looking at mechanics, I am looking at how players organize and socialze.
For a short while in any MMO it's a new frontier to explore, but as time presses onand everything has been uncovered and broken down on spreadsheets. Strategies become fixed, the best ways of doing things become known and the adventure dies again until the next expansion.
There are MMOs that make endgame less requisite, but the lack staying power. Just look at SWTOR - Bioware thought they could keep people invested with story but now they've consolidated servers multiple times this year. Meanwhile you still have people sinking hundreds of hours into Skyrim or Pokemon BW well past thier release.
DCUO does OK, but it doesn't stay interesting. Older MMOs going F2P haven't aged well and TESO sees the chilliest reception ever. It may just be the MMO has worn out its welcome and has no real room to grow.
For a short while in any MMO it's a new frontier to explore, but as time presses onand everything has been uncovered and broken down on spreadsheets. Strategies become fixed, the best ways of doing things become known and the adventure dies again until the next expansion.
There are MMOs that make endgame less requisite, but the lack staying power. Just look at SWTOR - Bioware thought they could keep people invested with story but now they've consolidated servers multiple times this year. Meanwhile you still have people sinking hundreds of hours into Skyrim or Pokemon BW well past thier release.
DCUO does OK, but it doesn't stay interesting. Older MMOs going F2P haven't aged well and TESO sees the chilliest reception ever. It may just be the MMO has worn out its welcome and has no real room to grow.
@Silent
To be honest, that's my blogging style. I do what more and more people should be doing and actually look eye to eye about what is being examined instead of focusing over the soft shiny skin protecting it. You however, seem to be insisting that social aspects are not changed by the mechanics that govern that society.
What you say about SWTOR is solely a deficiency of end-game content. Due to its age its hard to suggest that it would have too much end game content. But that generally carries to all games. When a game is over it either has a mechanic to keep you interested (End-game content) or not. If not, then another game is found to replace the void of entertainment. Pokemon has always been full of content to keep players interested in the game. And Pokemon has had a gigantic mixed age audience. These days, its publicly acceptable to be a gamer, and as such Pokemon has the strength it needs to create the perfect Pokemon game and show it to the online world.
Endgame Guilds exist because there is difficult end-game content that necessitates so many players, with almost professional training. They are often much like an army unit, a friendly family ready to beat ass. Pokemon has been around for awhile, and the Pokemon games as you might know were slightly popular. I doubt they would make an MMO that would disappoint. They would have a pretty strong community.
To be honest, that's my blogging style. I do what more and more people should be doing and actually look eye to eye about what is being examined instead of focusing over the soft shiny skin protecting it. You however, seem to be insisting that social aspects are not changed by the mechanics that govern that society.
What you say about SWTOR is solely a deficiency of end-game content. Due to its age its hard to suggest that it would have too much end game content. But that generally carries to all games. When a game is over it either has a mechanic to keep you interested (End-game content) or not. If not, then another game is found to replace the void of entertainment. Pokemon has always been full of content to keep players interested in the game. And Pokemon has had a gigantic mixed age audience. These days, its publicly acceptable to be a gamer, and as such Pokemon has the strength it needs to create the perfect Pokemon game and show it to the online world.
Endgame Guilds exist because there is difficult end-game content that necessitates so many players, with almost professional training. They are often much like an army unit, a friendly family ready to beat ass. Pokemon has been around for awhile, and the Pokemon games as you might know were slightly popular. I doubt they would make an MMO that would disappoint. They would have a pretty strong community.
It's dishonest to say I'm not factoring in mechanics at all. As I said, people break the stats down, do spreadsheets and everything becomes routine for the sake of efficiency. The reason we don't need a Pokémon MMO is what is there is already a persistent world where other players can be met, traded with and battle against.
An MMO is not only not necessary, it's redundant for Pokemon.
An MMO is not only not necessary, it's redundant for Pokemon.
@Silent
Not for PC, however. A medium they have not expanded to yet. A MMO would easily be their best move for a expansion to the much wider PC audience.
Its not dishonest to tell the honest truth.
Not for PC, however. A medium they have not expanded to yet. A MMO would easily be their best move for a expansion to the much wider PC audience.
Its not dishonest to tell the honest truth.
Everytime someone makes one of these, I'm very thankful they are not a game designer in a position of power. Rude? Horrible? Mean? Not really. Here is my problem. Gamers making statements on what games shouldn't be. If the industry listened to people of your ilk, nothing would have moved forward. NOTHING. After all, nobody really wanted a realtime RPG battle system. Strategy game that wasn't turn based? Fucking madness. Hell, Double Dragons 2 player mode on NES was a waste of development time that, according to gamers nowadays, could have been used to extend the single player. Warhawk should have stayed dead, Assassin's Creed couldn't possibly do multiplayer, and let's not forget the chant started by Yamauchi that Nintendo fans loudly proclaimed for years, online gaming is a fad. I am glad, with every fiber of my being, that the industry largely ignores these opinions. Why?
Well, not only is the concept at it's very core incredibly wrong (there are at least two F2P MMOs out there with the Pokemon style gameplay), but it's also short sighted. You assume Pokemon can only be done in one way (given how the main series represents roughly 25% of the Pokemon titles out there... you've ALREADY been proven wrong) and MMOs suffer the same problem. I tell you "the sky is the limit with anything you want to see" and you reply "but we're inside. We can't reach the sky at all." If you say Pokemon wouldn't and shouldn't ever be considered for an MMO, well... you're not very creative. Buy yourself a box of legos and try again at step one.
Well, not only is the concept at it's very core incredibly wrong (there are at least two F2P MMOs out there with the Pokemon style gameplay), but it's also short sighted. You assume Pokemon can only be done in one way (given how the main series represents roughly 25% of the Pokemon titles out there... you've ALREADY been proven wrong) and MMOs suffer the same problem. I tell you "the sky is the limit with anything you want to see" and you reply "but we're inside. We can't reach the sky at all." If you say Pokemon wouldn't and shouldn't ever be considered for an MMO, well... you're not very creative. Buy yourself a box of legos and try again at step one.
Actually, it can't hurt TOO much to try a different formula every once in a while when, such as a MMO Pokemon game, especially when things get too repetitive or old. At least as a spinoff or something. I can actually imagine a Pokemon MMO. Despite my dislike towards MMOs, I would still give it a shot if one really does come about in the future.
And damn, sheppy. ._.
And damn, sheppy. ._.
@sheppy - Pokemon Conquest says "hi." Nintendodoes allow the franchise to do new things - or do we just sweep such fresh examples under the rug now?
Also, are you glad Todd Howard is a game designer? Go watch his GDC keynote,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7awkYKbKHik
Note he mentions "pride" is and important factor in the success of Skyrim. He may not have a choice in what Zenimax does with the IP otherwise, but his team values the single player experience and folks that have gone hands in or seen bits of TESO are still nonplussed about it. It's not capturing the spirit of the series.
The framework, like Pokemon, is there but online brings a change in that certain freedoms are already lost. With Pokemon, obviously random encounters and turn based play are gone. Commanding pets in real time pretty much requires a queue system and the pet job has been one of the largest hurdles to overcome.
Hunter in WoW, Summoner in FFXI and many others are just difficult to integrate into group play. Mostly because no one seems to want to copy pasta EQ's Enchanter, which was one of the few to come closest to getting it right, but even they aren't encouraged to use pets in event content.
Obviously, it's something that can't be discouraged for Pokémon, but clearly certain teams will be. For Gym and E4 battles that is one thing, but once you get into co-op and competitive playing an online community things become much more rigid.
People already have expectations for certain party builds with certain skill and gear builds for a game like Diablo III and it's still a very young game. Patches and expansions changes this only briefly before a new community standard is established. Diablo is not quite an MMO, but close enough to have some of the same issues. Witch Doctor seems to be the current casualty. It struggles with its pets at higher difficulties.
Color me surprised. Sure it's easy to assign blame to Blizzard, but how do they balance that job for witch doctor without risking the obsolescence of another profession. This is the chicken-and-egg of game designer versus how the players embrace the game. My bet is it ends up like Hunter.
Would Jigglypuff have a shot at high end content or would it be Emopleon, Chansy and Lugia?
And as time drags on, the community becomes less willing to revisit older content. Right now in FFXI, a new player pretty much has to pay other players to see the entire story or conform to a very specific setup to have a prayer in getting it done. Even though the level cap is now 99, they still want certain things for level 75 content. You can log in to many MMOs and see a similar situation.
The developer is not gating the content in this case, players are.
Also, are you glad Todd Howard is a game designer? Go watch his GDC keynote,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7awkYKbKHik
Note he mentions "pride" is and important factor in the success of Skyrim. He may not have a choice in what Zenimax does with the IP otherwise, but his team values the single player experience and folks that have gone hands in or seen bits of TESO are still nonplussed about it. It's not capturing the spirit of the series.
The framework, like Pokemon, is there but online brings a change in that certain freedoms are already lost. With Pokemon, obviously random encounters and turn based play are gone. Commanding pets in real time pretty much requires a queue system and the pet job has been one of the largest hurdles to overcome.
Hunter in WoW, Summoner in FFXI and many others are just difficult to integrate into group play. Mostly because no one seems to want to copy pasta EQ's Enchanter, which was one of the few to come closest to getting it right, but even they aren't encouraged to use pets in event content.
Obviously, it's something that can't be discouraged for Pokémon, but clearly certain teams will be. For Gym and E4 battles that is one thing, but once you get into co-op and competitive playing an online community things become much more rigid.
People already have expectations for certain party builds with certain skill and gear builds for a game like Diablo III and it's still a very young game. Patches and expansions changes this only briefly before a new community standard is established. Diablo is not quite an MMO, but close enough to have some of the same issues. Witch Doctor seems to be the current casualty. It struggles with its pets at higher difficulties.
Color me surprised. Sure it's easy to assign blame to Blizzard, but how do they balance that job for witch doctor without risking the obsolescence of another profession. This is the chicken-and-egg of game designer versus how the players embrace the game. My bet is it ends up like Hunter.
Would Jigglypuff have a shot at high end content or would it be Emopleon, Chansy and Lugia?
And as time drags on, the community becomes less willing to revisit older content. Right now in FFXI, a new player pretty much has to pay other players to see the entire story or conform to a very specific setup to have a prayer in getting it done. Even though the level cap is now 99, they still want certain things for level 75 content. You can log in to many MMOs and see a similar situation.
The developer is not gating the content in this case, players are.
Silent,
You negate my point...
"You assume Pokemon can only be done in one way (given how the main series represents roughly 25% of the Pokemon titles out there... you've ALREADY been proven wrong) and MMOs suffer the same problem."
...by confirming it? I are confused... I mean, wow. Pokemon Conquest... boy is my face red when I specifically mention that Pokemon, as a franchise CAN exist outside of the main line and you, to prove me wrong, accuse me of forgetting a spinoff within the franchise that expressly prove MY FUCKING POINT. Seriously, really? You didn't really think this out.
Also consider Todd Howard and what he said. That's awesome, really. Well, it's a good thing he know what he's developing and all but it's also a bad thing. What he lacks is a widening vision. There HAVE been people wanting multiplayer in Elder Scrolls games and while it may not fit his design, the demand for something like that is there. Tod Howard, frankly, is a cowardly designer. A huge group of his fans say they would like something multiplayer and his response is "I can't figure out how to do that, sorry..."
That's the point, really. He, and you, are looking at stuff in a narrow vision and using past examples to validate your point. Boy, that Pokemon Black sure is the only way Pokemon can be made into an MMO. They sure couldn't do any Hero's Journey style storyarches at all, or limit trainers to a single Pokemon/Class. No team battles or even an entirely new chapter in the world history of the Pokemon world. Nope, nope, nope. It has to fit this narrow definition of Pokemon and MMOs and that's why it could never work. This is what you demand of the industry, and likely have the gall to bitch about sequelitis. Pokemon Conquest, the first two words of your rebuttal, deved by TecmoKoei, not Nintendo, proves this entire blog post wrong.
You negate my point...
"You assume Pokemon can only be done in one way (given how the main series represents roughly 25% of the Pokemon titles out there... you've ALREADY been proven wrong) and MMOs suffer the same problem."
...by confirming it? I are confused... I mean, wow. Pokemon Conquest... boy is my face red when I specifically mention that Pokemon, as a franchise CAN exist outside of the main line and you, to prove me wrong, accuse me of forgetting a spinoff within the franchise that expressly prove MY FUCKING POINT. Seriously, really? You didn't really think this out.
Also consider Todd Howard and what he said. That's awesome, really. Well, it's a good thing he know what he's developing and all but it's also a bad thing. What he lacks is a widening vision. There HAVE been people wanting multiplayer in Elder Scrolls games and while it may not fit his design, the demand for something like that is there. Tod Howard, frankly, is a cowardly designer. A huge group of his fans say they would like something multiplayer and his response is "I can't figure out how to do that, sorry..."
That's the point, really. He, and you, are looking at stuff in a narrow vision and using past examples to validate your point. Boy, that Pokemon Black sure is the only way Pokemon can be made into an MMO. They sure couldn't do any Hero's Journey style storyarches at all, or limit trainers to a single Pokemon/Class. No team battles or even an entirely new chapter in the world history of the Pokemon world. Nope, nope, nope. It has to fit this narrow definition of Pokemon and MMOs and that's why it could never work. This is what you demand of the industry, and likely have the gall to bitch about sequelitis. Pokemon Conquest, the first two words of your rebuttal, deved by TecmoKoei, not Nintendo, proves this entire blog post wrong.
sorry hit add comment before I was done, look at what they did to tf2 and the risk there.
Tf2 was before the addition of new weapons a very stable game, with relatively few problems. Valve could have rode the success of the game and released a new TF3 a few years later, that had some new improvements and an hd upgrade, and they would still make money. Instead they release new, maps, game modes and weapons. Not to mention the hats, something so worthless has so much desire. As a result the tf2 game is a juggernaut of a game, raking in tons of money.
Now lets take a look at Pokemon platform...
Its brand recognition is enormous, you put pokemon on something, it will sell, even if you are not a gamer. Kids know of the show, and buy merchandise related to that.
I think Pokemon mmo(pmmo) would be a great idea for the reason stated in my original comment( 4 comment from top), and hell even if it fails, it probability won't hurt the brand at all. Though if it succeeds,it would be big for Nintendo.
Also, Nintendo has a tendency for ip elusive to their platforms. However as the Mobile device market continues to rise and dominate I wouldnt be surprised if some of Nintendo ip expand out a little.
Tf2 was before the addition of new weapons a very stable game, with relatively few problems. Valve could have rode the success of the game and released a new TF3 a few years later, that had some new improvements and an hd upgrade, and they would still make money. Instead they release new, maps, game modes and weapons. Not to mention the hats, something so worthless has so much desire. As a result the tf2 game is a juggernaut of a game, raking in tons of money.
Now lets take a look at Pokemon platform...
Its brand recognition is enormous, you put pokemon on something, it will sell, even if you are not a gamer. Kids know of the show, and buy merchandise related to that.
I think Pokemon mmo(pmmo) would be a great idea for the reason stated in my original comment( 4 comment from top), and hell even if it fails, it probability won't hurt the brand at all. Though if it succeeds,it would be big for Nintendo.
Also, Nintendo has a tendency for ip elusive to their platforms. However as the Mobile device market continues to rise and dominate I wouldnt be surprised if some of Nintendo ip expand out a little.
