For the record, I agree 100% with Jim's recent article
"Nintendo of America needs to STFU". However, I wanted to hone in on one particular aspect of the article, the idea that Nintendo has left behind its older fans. I do feel that Nintendo has left behind its older fans and from what I see on the comments page to Jim's article, it seems obvious that I am not alone. Hell, even hardcore Nintendo lovers such as RetroforceGO!'s Chad, Colette, and Topher have expressed disappointment with Nintendo's current business priorities. Many Nintendo supporters however, will counter this allegation by saying that Nintendo needed to shift its focus away from its base in order to achieve the widespread success that the Wii has given them. The casual Wii gamer will eventually "graduate" and join our ranks. Once Nintendo gets enough money, they'll come back to us again. The list of reasons go on and on and on. My question to Nintendo's supporters and apologists is this: hasn't Apple proven with its actions that you can appeal to both the public and the fan base at the same time? Why are we settling for one or the other?
Apple and Nintendo are both similar companies, not only because they make consumer electronics, but because both companies rely heavily on perception and buzz as a large part of their business strategy. It is not surprising that both companies have as a result of this built up a significant base of hardcore fans, defenders, and apologists. There are plenty of reasons why such a hardcore base can be of advantage to a company such as Apple and Nintendo. However, I feel that an important one that is not often expressed is that it allows a company to better take risks in the marketplace. By this, I mean that a company can come up with an idea that might not be what people expected but be given the benefit of the doubt by their hardcore fan base, which can translate, especially in the consumer electronics, to better press.
Nintendo has made or been associated with a number of silly and stupid ideas far earlier than Miyamoto's "performance" at E3 2008 made one of the genius' of the gaming world look like an idiot. The Power Glove, R.O.B., the Virtual Boy, etc are three prominent examples that come to mind that, especially with the advantage of hindsight and freed from the hype of the time, should have been recognized as being ridiculous, silly, and a piece of electronics that either did not work the way it was "supposed" to (in the case of the Power Glove) or was simply too limited to accomplish what it set out to do (i.e. Virtual Boy). Yet at the time, these were all products that were given more than the benefit of the doubt and even now, these failures are allowed viewed in a "fond" light and a "cute" entry in the encyclopedia of Nintendo history. This is what a hardcore fan base allows you to do: get away with potentially business-killing screw-ups.
For all of its success, Apple has made its fair share of screw-ups too. In the years prior to the iMac and iPod's success, Apple was in quite possibly the most pathetic position that a company could be in (it had to accept a "bailout" from Bill Gates, who made a hilariously booed appearance at the 1997 MacWorld Expo in which this was announced). Yet Apple was still loved and supported by a large hardcore fanbase that saw it through the hard times. This is exactly the case with Nintendo, which hit a low point during the time of the N64 and GameCube, but was still supported by its fan base.
Today, Apple is not only a ridiculously successful company, but it has branched out into the mainstream in a way that is unprecedented, largely due to MacOS X, the iPod, and now the iPhone. I confess that I have hated Macs and Apple products for a long time but even I am very tempted to buy one of the new iPhone models and I do consider Apple's laptops very attractive. One thing that separates Apple and Nintendo however, is that Apple has never given up, left behind, or even given the impression of caring less about the importance of its hardcore. They are always simultaneously catering to both the general public and its hardcore fans over the years.
Ever since Jobs returned to Apple in 1997, I cannot recall a single year where there was any significant group of fans that felt left behind. I suppose the closest Apple has gone in recent years to disappointing its fan base was when they dropped the price of the first iPhone models very quickly and even then, Apple quickly offered up a rebate to customers who bought the iPhone prior to the price drop (who were most likely its hardcore fan base). Hell, consider the fact that Jobs has been investigated by the SEC for a variety of questionable financial activities and the public and investors are still in love with him and his products.
In contrast, once Nintendo found success with the Wii, they have continuously failed time and time again to satisfy the expectations of a good portion of its fan base. I am confused as to why Reggie and friends seem unable to understand why the "hardcore" are disappointed with Nintendo and wrongly assume that it is because we want a new Mario or Zelda game. I cannot speak for my fellow gamers, but what I am looking for Nintendo to show a genuine interest in trying something new. By new, I mean a game that aspires to be more than just a glorified tech demo whose concept will be refined X years down the line (i.e.
WiiSports,
WiiFit,
WiiMusic, etc).
It really doesn't take that much to please or pay sufficient lip service to a fan base and it shocks me that Nintendo doesn't know how to do that. Suggest that you are thinking of a Kid Icarus game. Suggest that you are thinking of some new IP where you do X, Y, and Z. You don't even need to actually follow up on the idea and make an actual product. Just get an intern to draw Pit punching Medusa in the face and we'll be happy. A year later, just tell us that you canceled it because it wasn't good enough for the fans and we'll believe it. Suggest that you are thinking of porting over
Mother 3. Or in the latter case, take some of the huge profits you are making, license the
Mother 3 fan translation, and port it over to VirtualConsole as a "gift to the fans" along with
Earthbound, either resolving the legal status of the music or getting Hip Tanaka to revise the music. Hell, give us a one-hour video documentary tour of Nintendo of Japan on the Nintendo Channel or something like that. There are literally tons and tons of easy ways to appeal to the hardcore and I am surprised that Nintendo does not do this. Given that I have a sufficient amount of respect for Reggie and his friends as well as the bigwigs in Nintendo of Japan, I can only imagine that this is simply because Nintendo does not care and not because they have not thought about it.
Apple owes much of its current success to the fact that when Apple was down in the dumps in 1997, there were still legions of fans that wanted Apple to get better and was willing to give them the patience and benefit of the doubt to get themselves up to speed. I have to confess that I wish that I were an Apple fan because it must be a fantastic feeling to feel that even though Apple is ridiculously successful today, it is still supportive and thankful of its hardcore fan base. Don't get me wrong, I am not naive enough to believe that Apple is not looking out for themselves and their profits. However, I know that from a sheer probability point of view, Apple will eventually turn out a dud that totally tanks (though I'd personally say that the Apple TV already came close) and at that time, it will be the hardcore fan base that will applaud it for trying something new and calm the negative press, urging us to give Apple another chance, which will be better for their bottom line.
The fact is, Nintendo will churn out a failure sometime in the future: it is statistically impossible that this will not happen. Nintendo, with its actions with the Wii generation, have proven that it is the business equivalent of the unpopular geek who gets a shiny new car, gets invited into the popular crowd, and then dumps all of his old D&D geek friends. In all of these movies and TV episodes, the popular crowd eventually dumps the kid when he/she has outlived his or her usefulness and end up crawling back to his old friends. Will we still welcome Nintendo back when the popular crowd has thrown it under the bus? When Nintendo reaches that low point, will we still be willing to give them that leeway? I would suggest that Nintendo, particularly their marketing and PR departments, study Apple and its handling of its fans very carefully because otherwise, I fear that when their big failure comes, there will be no one left once the popular crowds are gone and Nintendo will be sitting against that locker listening to the Linkin Park as the tears flow down like dollars into a drain.
Tascar's blog
follow this blog
subscribe via RSS
send message
invite to meetup+play
I'll read this later, because you're a genious, and I need full concentration.
I will note that you should upload your images to photobucket.com instead of Dtoid, so they size correctly.
I'm glad that you brought up Apple and how they've managed to appeal to a mainstream audience while appeasing their hardcore, old school fans.
I don't understand all the people who say, "Nintendo is a business! They don't owe you anything! All that matters is your $$$$$!!!"
I mean.. those are true statements, but just because they don't literally owe it to their fans to release say.. Mother 3 or a new 2d Metroid.. that doesn't mean that you can just throw customer loyalty out the window. Customer loyalty is VERY IMPORTANT, especially in times when people don't necessarily have the money to buy all the different consoles and actually have to weigh the positives and negatives of each one. And in this case, the Wii's negatives are pretty hefty, especially for us older gamers.
I grew up on Nintendo machines, all the way from the NES to the Gamecube, and I had pretty much the same experience with the Wii as Jim did. I bought it, I played Mario Galaxy, then it sat in the cabinet for a few months before I sold it. I didn't sell it out of spite, I just happened to need the money at the time, and I saw it as expendable.
Granted, games like Muramasa and Tatsunoko vs. Capcom look sexy as fuck to me.. and the guys who are doing the remake of A Boy & His Blob definitely have the right idea.. but it boggles my mind that Nintendo itself won't just listen to what their fans are saying, and instead continue to try to bend everybody to this idea that Wii Music and Wii Fit are the future of gaming.
Holy long comment. Sorry about that. Long story short, Nintendo need to realize that their "blue ocean" audience are the same people who latch onto and freak out over Tickle Me Elmo dolls and Furbys and whatever other "GOTTA HAVE IT" toys make people spend thousands of dollars on eBay and trample eachother in Wal-Marts. Those people will not support them for nearly as long as gamers who like good games will.
I will say, before I even read, I agree with Gore 100%: from the "born and raised Nintendo fan dissatisfied with the Wii" mentality, to the success of Apple.
Great blog, and a nice complement to Jim's article. Two slightly contrasting views makes for great reading.
I really, really wish the comment section does not turn out like it did in Jim's article, becase it's kind of sickening to see so many blind followers of a game hardware company.
I am a sony man, but dammit, I have the sense to see all the shit they pour on the PS3 and how they, themselves have contributed to it's struggle. The lies they spin and the justified cynicism against them that has been born this generation.
I will never understand loyalty to consoles or the big three, and never will, sure liking one particular company is fine, but defending them to the death, knowing they do not care if you do? That is simple, complete insanity that should not be allowed to exist, ever.
It is a damn shame that it does and has a hold in every website, including this one.
So, A+++ great blog, would read again. :)
I think Nintendo has definitely put a lot of quality titles out this generation so far. However, they're definitely not doing as well as they could be. I haven't had much interest in the first party titles myself...my only one to date is Super Smash Brothers and my second will be Metroid Prime Trilogy. The only thing they're making at the moment that hits my interest as a long time fan are Zelda and Metroid. They're definitely slacking with quite a few of their franchises.
I'm happy with my Wii, but that is mostly because of Capcom, Sega, High Voltage, Platinum/Clover, Gaijin and Grasshopper and not Nintendo.
As far as Apple goes, I haven't had a lot of experience with them. I remember hating fooling around with those awful computers in high school. As of late they just seem to produce the latest gadgets for yuppies to fawn over and consume en masse. Hey! They are like Nintendo!
Aaaaaand here come the ten million "APPLE SUX" shitsuckers.
Anyways, even if Nintendo is "just a business", Nintendo as a business won't get my business if I don't approve of their business. Capiche? I was one of the biggest supporters of the Wii in the beginning but it's a fucking joke now. Fuck the Wii.
While I agree with this article mostly I have to say that it's very unlikely that Nintendo has left the hardcore considering how many games we've asked for and HAVE received but no matter how many of us want to hear about them making new and great games but they never seem to talk much about them when they should.
It's pretty obvious this generation they're trying to pander to everyone's needs by making all kinds of diferent games and letting anyone with a computer and money to publish a game on their console. Considering the Gamecube was an awesome console but a failure as well I can't blame them for trying to distance themselves from it but not to this extent.
It's doesn't bother me that they're going out to a different audience or that they're making Wii Sports or Wii music after all a big company like that can do more than one thing at a time but to trying to force feed it to us like it's the next Pikmin like they are is disgusting.
@ djp3dro
Really? I don't see them.
All I see is a "RAWR RAWR FUCK THE WII" shitsucker.
You make me want to start reading CBlogs again. Well written article sir.
I 100% fucking agree. Nintendo are fucking sell-outs. I know a lot of people say that it's just good business but surely to throw away your loyal customers is completely against good business. They forgot about those people who put them where they are. Those people that made them so successful.
I mean, where the fuck am I supposed to buy Hanafuda cards now?
...
Seriously though, it doesn't bother me one bit. Especially when you consider that this isn't the only time they've "sold out their audience" (excluding the Hanafuda cards debacle). If anything, with what they're doing now they're capturing back their old audience that truly did make them the company they are today, not just the gaming geeks.
When Reggie said that the, for lack of a better word, hardcore was "insatiable" I think he truly had a point in the sense that a lot of the "hardcore" generally have a lot of free time and cash to burn. I hear people bitching about lack of Wii games, but I find there are plenty. It seems that I buy around 10-12 retail releases a year (on Wii/360/PC). That's nearly one per month. One new game per month! The majority of those will be Wii games, because it seems they're the ones that interest me the most. There's also XBLA/VC games and I play a ton of retro games. I think it's safe to say I play games a fair bit. So either these people that complain about a lack of Wii games are either a) not even looking and going with the hype or b) time travellers that somehow manage to bend time and space (as well as work and life) to their every will in order to finish every game and ask "What next?" pretty quickly. And that always seems to be the question. "Yeah, Zelda was cool. What next?" "Yeah, Galaxy was cool. What next?" "Yeah, Brawl was cool. What next?" And that questionally is usually asked a week after release! Does nobody still get value from their games anymore? I'm still playing Mario Kart and Brawl, because quite honestly, I find that they're the best iterations in their respective series.
I feel I've derailed a little bit here, but what with Jim's article and the general consensus agreeing with him I had to say it sooner or later.
Your article was much better written than Jim's, honestly. Jim's was just flamebait. This is actually intelligent. I actually agree with your points, whereas I couldn't find a single one in Jim.
Holy- sorry for the long comment
Nintendo has found it to be quite profitable to appeal to the casual crowd because a.) they will buy pretty much anything with 'wii' in the title, b.) these casual games are often closer to tech demos, making them easier to develop and can be churned out faster than a much deeper game (which may have a several year development span), and c.) it seems that mostly casual gamers are purchasing the hardware.
Nintendo's fault isn't with releasing shovelware or not releasing enough hardcore gaming gems, but with its marketing. They're focusing on promoting the casual gaming 'experiences' like Wii Music, Wii Play, Wii Fit, and Wii Sports, and not hyping games like Zelda or Metroid to anywhere near that extent. Because of this, I completely agree that Apple's business plan is a much better way to reach all gamers.
As far as shortage of first party Wii titles are concerned, it's not entirely the case. Since the N64, there has traditionally been only one main "Mario" title per console generation; the Wii is not only getting another Mario Galaxy, but New Super Mario Bros as well. With Metroid- the N64 had none, Gamecube had two, and the Wii has both an original title as well as a remake of both the Gamecube games. The Legend of Zelda is a franchise I hold dear, but I always expect to take multiple years of waiting to receive. N64 had two, Gamecube had one original and several ports of the N64 titles, and the Wii already has one, with another announced. The Paper Mario series has one game per console generation. Star Fox has one on N64, two on Gamecube (if you really want to count Adventures), and no Wii title (because Dylan Cuthbert is the president of Q Games).
So really, Wii owners looking for their first party franchises have a track record pretty consistent with Nintendo's previous two generations going back to '96. It's just hard to realize that because of how much shelf space is being taken up by casual games. The only noticeable absences from their stable of franchises of the past fifteen years are a new StarFox, a new Pilot Wings, and a new Wave Race (although the new Wii Sport Resort has a jet ski mode designed by one of the creators of Wave Race, and the plane flying segments are reminiscent of Pilot Wings).
I like to think Nintendo tried to make up with the hardcore gamers by releasing as much of their repertoire as possible on virtual console (with some noticeable exceptions, but when is it asking for too much?).
Basically, I feel that the Wii is not that much different from the Gamecube or N64 as far as first party software capitalizing on classic franchises is concerned, but Nintendo has to do something about their marketing tactics. That being said, I think the problem is that the hardcore gamers are looking for Nintendo to break away from the classic franchise stable and release a new IP specifically for them or revolutionize some older title in a brand new way while Nintendo is content to continue doing what they have been for almost fifteen years now. The big N believes it can satisfy all hardcore gamers with the same games with a new coat of paint, but gamers are wising up to this and want some new experience tailored to them instead of tailored to a Grandma who will only take the system out of the box once.
Nintendo is acting like a kid who used to be your friend, but started running with the cool crowd and pretends he doesn't recognize you anymore. I think it's time Nintendo's old pals got some recognition. Nice blog, though!
I was always an advocate of appealing to the mainstream and your fan base at the same time. This is essentially what makes comic book movies awesome (the good ones, anyway.) Make products that people would like and your "geeks" will like, and you get 2x the money. Why go 1/2 on something for 1 million dollars profit if you can put in 1.75 and get 3 million dollars profit? I'm not a business man, but even that seems obvious.
I don't buy Apple products, as Steve Jobs is a baby eater. Its true, I've seen it.
@DanGale
I think you made two very good, interesting points that perhaps I should have addressed in my cblog post.
First, the question of whether or not Nintendo has actually "given" up on the hardcore. A few months ago, while doing some research for a cblog that never happened, I came to realize that there are actually roughly as many if not more "hardcore" games by Nintendo themselves on the Wii as there were in the good olde days of SNES. So on a quantitative level, the idea of Nintendo has "abandoned" the hardcore is pure bull.
The problem is that perceptions are not defined by numbers and proof (hell, look at the way politics works): they are defined largely by guts feelings. Let's all be honest here: we all thought New Super Mario Bros Wii looked cool. We all liked Super Mario Galaxy 2. We all gasped when Metroid: Other M was revealed. Quantitatively speaking, E3 this year was a massive win for "hardcore" Nintendo fans. The problem is that when a significant portion of Nintendo's E3 press conference is dedicated to Cammy showing us how WiiFit Plus will help us lose weight, mystery detective games for older women, and the laughable Wii Vitality Sensor, Nintendo creates the perception that it cares about and prioritizes non-hardcore non-gamers over its fan base.
I do agree with your defense of Reggie's "insatiable" comment. However, by that perspective, shouldn't Valve and Blizzard fans be up in arms over their respective companies for taking forever to release games? Again, it all goes back to perception. When Nintendo announces tons of games for non-fans such as WiiMusic, WiiFit, etc, we question whether or not the resources consumed by those games could be put to better use. In contrast, when Valve and Blizzard take forever to make their games, we trust that they are spending their time on something related to what we want because we don't see anything else significant coming out of their studios that may possibly be utilizing these resources. It's the same reason we were happy back in the SNES days with what Nintendo gave us.
With respect to the second point on hanafuda cards, I get your point, but I don't think it's the right comparison because the hanafuda market (assuming it is anything like the playing card market) is different than the video game market or the consumer electronics market.
From what I read in Chris Kohler's book "Power-Up: How Japanese Video Games Gave the World an Extra Life" on hanafuda and Nintendo, the appeal of Nintendo's cards were that they were the best in terms of construction and design. In other words, there's a definite way in which hanafuda cards can be measured and graded on how good they are. If you are selling a product for which quality is easy for the buyer to determine, then there isn't really a need for a hardcore fan base because as long as you price your product appropriate to the level of quality that you offer, you will remain in business. So in other words, Nintendo doesn't rely on any hardcore base with respect to hanafuda cards because as long as they keep up with the quality and price of its competitors, the parlors and casinos who buy from them will continue to partake in this business argument.
In contrast, in consumer electronics such as Nintendo's games, systems or Apple's phones or computers, it's very hard to say that X is better than Y, which is why perception and hardcore fans are more important in this situation.
Um, who do you think responded in a frenzy to Jim's article? Nintendo still has a huge loyal fanbase of gamers. And just like Apple it has an equally ridiculous number of haters because hating on the most popular thing makes you a cool rebel (not to say there aren't valid criticisms, but I rarely hear them). Just type in "fuck apple" in google if you doubt me.
And here's a pro-tip: If you are constantly disappointed by Nintendo, then you apparently aren't a part of their fan base!
@Laird, first of all, I did a brief count right now of the first 50 responses in Jim's article. By my estimate, there are about 20 comments that support Jim's article and 17 comments that are against his article. I'm not going to move on to the next 200+ comments. However, I think it's fair to say that there are at the very least as many people who are disappointed with Nintendo as those that are happy with Nintendo.
With respect to your second point, take a look at those "fuck Apple" posts or commentaries. Almost all of them are by people who have hated Apple for years now or people who have never had a single bit of attachment to Apple. In contrast, almost all of the people who are angry or disappointed at Nintendo were at one point a massive fan. That's where the difference is and that's why Apple has done a far better job managing its customers as opposed to Nintendo.
Well the Hanafuda cards is just a litle joke I like to bring up occasionally. :)
Though I think you're pretty much spot on about it all being perception. But that's where I think some people do tend to get lazy. All they see is the perception that Nintendo are throwing out quick cash-ins and shitty products, when in actual fact the shitty products are generally coming from third parties looking to cash in. It doesn't help though that NIntenndo have always, as a rule of thumb, been media shy. This is actually the first age where I've seen some significant Nintendo coverage. And because it's all the "casual" stuff people just assume that's what they're all about now, when in reality, as you say, Nintendo are on par with the SNES on a quantitative level, and arguably a qualitative one too. Though I've not actually played Wii Music so I have no basis to judge it on, a lot of the "Wii X" stuff are still pretty solid products. Wii Sports Resort was so good it made me angry for not having a Pilotwings or Wave Race game in my hands!
When you comment on Valve/Blizzard taking forever, we shouldn't forget that Nintendo too takes forever for their major first party games. The perception now though is that with them releasing the quick "Wii X" products that it somehow detracts from the other products, which I don't think is the case.
The only major criticism I have of Nintendo and their Wii is why they don't really push Wiiware with some really top notch stuff.
But Cammy should just go away now. I'm fine with Reggie, but Cammy? Please, no more!
I do agree, for the most part, that Nintendo has been pretty consistent with its "core" first-party titles. The problem lies more with Nintendo of America and their refusal to acknowledge the demand for some of the more niche and risky properties like Mother 3, Capt. Rainbow (that's what it was called, right?) and even shit like Muscle March.
Their "geeks and otaku" statement, I think, applies to more than just their stance on a Wii hard drive. Games like those, alongside your usual Mario, Zelda, and Metroid fare, are what sets Nintendo apart from everyone else.. but they don't wanna hear it. The games are already there, they just don't want to let us play them for whatever reason.
And don't even get me started on friend codes and the Wii's online.
@Dangale
My impression was that Nintendo wanted the Wii-Ware, for the most part, to be a platform for independent and small developers to showcase their work.
Well, I think one thing worth noting about Apple has been that their fanbase, to maintain the comparison, has always been "casual" - in the sense that an apple newbie and and apple fanatic are both drawn to simplicity of design and function.
And whats surprising, then, is that a Nintendo Fanatic finds themselves so often at odds with Nintendo Newbies. I think, at its core design sensibilities, are still focused on providing a clean, high quality product, while still playing fanservice to its consumerbase. Phantom Hourglass was fanservice that turned sour, but still, fanservice.
I think Nintendo and Apple find themselves in the same space, however, so far as "core" gaming. As much as a Mac loyalist will want to boast thier amazing spec and cool conversion gadgets, the Mac is still no platform for the full breadth of great PC gaming experiences. Despite that, there are plenty of gamers with Macs, trying, sometimes desperately, to fit into the larger gaming society with the machine/company they care about.
Everything Nintendo (hey or even Apple) touches isn't gold, I'll admit. Their hardware alienates and their first party software can feel like a drag compared to other companies' offerings. However, taken for what they are, with a concession that they're doing things differently, there's a great amount of value/fun/appreciation to be had for what's actually being presented.
Very good topic!
@Cadtalfryn, I think the problem with WiiWare (and in some way the Wii itself) is that when you look at consoles made by an actual game developer (such as Nintendo and Sega), you often see that third-party publishers look to the first-party developer's games to get a glimpse of the direction that they ought to proceed in. This is especially true with a unconventional platforms such as the Wii, DS, WiiWare, DSiWare, etc where the platform is so unique and different that third-party publishers wait for the first-party developers to show off how to best utilize this console platform before they take the plunge.
When Nintendo churns out WiiWare titles like Dr. Mario (a simple port of an old puzzle game) and My Pokemon Ranch (a joke of a "game"), how is it surprising that these type of games are the only things that third-party publishers bother to make? In essence, Nintendo sends the message that WiiWare is for lazy ports, puzzle games, casual games, etc.
In contrast, imagine if Nintendo released a 2-D sprite sequel to "Kid Icarus," for example, with the scale and scope of "Super Metroid." I think that would have sent the message that WiiWare is a serious gaming platform and that you need a certain level of quality to stand a chance on WiiWare.
@DanGale
"When you comment on Valve/Blizzard taking forever, we shouldn't forget that Nintendo too takes forever for their major first party games. The perception now though is that with them releasing the quick "Wii X" products that it somehow detracts from the other products, which I don't think is the case."
Super Mario World--->Mario 64? 6 Years
Mario 64--->Sunshine? 6 Years
Sunshine--->Mario Galaxy? 6 Years
Mario Galaxy--->New Super Mario Brothers AND Mario Galaxy 2? 2-3 Years, respectively.
They just don't care anymore.
@Magnalon
"Mario Galaxy--->New Super Mario Brothers AND Mario Galaxy 2? 2-3 Years, respectively.
They just don't care anymore. "
My understanding of SMG2 is that it was pretty much left over ideas from SMG that they've fleshed out to a full title's worth of levels. Sounds like more fanservice (hey check out this other cool stuff we had, here take it) than not caring. Valve did that... and got an anti-petition for it, so... :)
Though, one could definitely consider the fact that they're not working on the next thing as a reasonable negative. And I'll agree that I like new things, too. Even then, I've enjoyed Galaxy and more if it doesn't hurt, imo.
So, do with that what you will. :)
@Tascar
"you often see that third-party publishers look to the first-party developer's games to get a glimpse of the direction that they ought to proceed in."
I'm not sure that's entirely fair to Nintendo though. Third parties, all over, are "big boys" and can conduct themselves accordingly! There's been a good handful of gems on WiiWare, regardless of Nintendo's showing.
I would, however, point to the perception of the fanbase, and note that they're catering accordingly to THAT, for the most part, which could defintiely be tracked back to Nintendo. Mommy, Daddy, Billy and Sarah know they can thrive on WiiWare more so than any other service.
This was an excellent, well thought-out blog, my friend. It's nice to see someone criticizing Nintendo without going on and on about how much they suck for unknown reasons, and that the Xbox is God on Earth or something similar. I agree with everything you've said -- I grew up with the NES, and even though I own and love the Wii, I barely play it anymore because there's just nothing there right now.
great blog, but I think everyone is getting some sort of high and mighty idea of Nintendo of America. From all I've seen in the past few years, NoA is just a PR and translation department for Nintendo of Japan. I haven't seen a business decision come from Nintendo of America in regards to the Wii or the Gamecube. So while companies like Capcom or Hudson have a North American branch that has shown that it makes actual business decisions in regards to future software and product development, Nintendo does not.
What Nintendo of America does is market a Japanese product to America. So if something is too Japanese for Americans, it will not come out in America. That is fairly understandable, but we never see Nintendo of America develop or publish something that would be aimed at Americans. So we are left with a company that chooses what Nintendo of Japan wants published in America. This means no Earthbound, no Wii no Ma, no ordering a Pizza through the wii, no Captain Rainbow, no **insert exciting thing that might have been cool that isn't released here**.
So when you get an outcry against the current and future lineup of Nintendo games coming to America, it is completely NoA's fault for not being able to understand and appease its market. Whether this is because Nintendo of Japan is making bad development decisions and NoA is saving us from it (they published a music education game in the era of Guitar Hero) or if its NoA's inability to do anything worthwhile, it still makes Reggie look like a guy who doesn't represent the software purchasing portion of America. The way that the company is run ensures that I won't purchase or recommend a Wii 2 or Wii Plus or really any future Nintendo product. My Wii was useless until I modded it into a DVD player. Now its just an overpriced DVD player.
In regards to Apple, Nintendo's releasing stuff we've seen many times before. The iPod was revolutionary when it came out much like the Wii, but it has upgraded or reinvented itself each and every year to keep it fresh and Nintendo hasn't (see Xbox 360 or PS3 for software updates). So Nintendo isn't quite like Apple. Microsoft or Sony is more like Apple.
@Tubatic
I can see where you're coming from, but I would have loved to shift the manpower that was working on New Super Mario Brothers 2 and Mario Galaxy 2, to see a brand new game like Yoshi's Island Wii, or Super Mario Frontier
Original series>rehashes.
Very well written article!!
I think part of the problem with Nintendo is that they don't seem to want to spend any money to keep their fans. What I mean by this is that you will see Sony and MS throwing money around securing exclusives and helping devs work on their platform. I don't think Nintendo would do anything different if Sega or Capcom decided one day that they would scale back the number of hardcore Wii games they release. They have to stop relying on people wanting to make games on the Wii and start giving other developers incentive to.
Another thing they need to do is have a public outlet. MS has Major Nelson and Sony has the PlayStation Blog, Pulse and Qore. The closest thing Nintendo have is the My Nintendo Channel which feels faceless. They need someone thatxisn't a suit.
Tascar, um really, did you take a look at the Google results for "fuck apple"? If you do, you'll see people who say things like
"Why I Let Apple Ass-Fuck Me"
"I am very angry with you, Apple. I'm posting this from my PC, because my Macbook Pro won't open up Safari now without crashing..."
"I have a 1 Gig shuffle that does not work, and everybody I know with any iPod product has had it stop working at least once."
And of course the classic "i hate my iPhone - fuck apple..."
The first two results were from disgruntled customers, for crying out loud! I'm not sure which page you were reading. But it seems silly to me to write all of them off as just Microsoft fanboys or haters.
Even if most of them are, that doesn't change the fact that Apple has indeed alienated a shitload of their customers like any big corporation (despite their $100 rebate). In fact, people are much more likely to get that pissed off at a product if they were perceived to be "burned" by it.
But the fact is, they still have a legion of consumers ready to check out and buy the next gadget. And so does Nintendo, despite the ratio of pro-Nintendo to anti-Nintendo comments in Jim's article.
@Magnalon
Good games>Bad games. That's all there really is too it. Regardless of whether it's an established franchise or the start of a new one. We can't label Mario Galaxy 2 or NSMBW "rehashes" just yet. Especially because from everything we've seen/other people have played, the general consensus seems to be that they're coming along very nicely. As Tubatic pointed out before Galaxy 2 is less of a rehash and more of a good thing. It was ideas left over that weren't implemented in the first.
Also, from my understanding the two Mario games are from different development teams within Nintendo, so it's hardly themselves spreading themselves too thin.
Real cool write up, well-worded. I left Nintendo behind shortly after the N64, mostly to follow Square over to the PSX, but the more I experienced what the PS1's cycle had to offer, the more I felt like this was my natural progression as a gamer. I was raised by Nintendo, like a lot of you, but I believe I discovered my gamer maturity on Sony's consoles.
Anyways, great blog, keep up the good work.
NoA totally dropped the ball, that's for sure.
The big difference between Reggie and Steve Jobs is that Steve Jobs is an actual craftsman who loves his product, where Reggie is an salesman who's just trying to sell as much product as he can. That's why he wont take the risk on publishing all the great games that Nintendo of Japan puts out. He's got no eye for art.
The Nintendo of Japan guys are different though. They still make and publish games that have meaning to them. Miyamoto loves kids and his wife, so he's made a few games for the recently. Whatever, as long as you keep publishing games like Fatal Frame IV, Captain Rainbow, Tingle DS 2, Another Code R, Sin and Punishment 2, and all the other niche titles that you can only get from Nintendo, then I'll be happy.
Soft modded Wii is the only way to go, fellas.
Confirmed: Jonathan Holmes supports piracy.*
*As long as said piracy does not pertain to Retro Game Challenge
@Tacar
Again, I don't think Nintendo is leading the charge with the Wii...atleast not to appeal to people like me, so they're certainly not doing it for Wii-Ware. The Bit Trip Series, World of Goo, Lit, Nyx Quest, Lost Winds. A lot of these gems on Wii-Ware are made by people we've never heard of before.
I would love for Nintendo to go make traditional 2D games from their classic franchises and put them out on Wii-Ware. However, they're probably putting their third string teams on Wii-Ware titles, while their starters are working on new Metroids and Zeldas. Wii-Ware, no matter how good, is never going to sell as well as a full retail title.
@Tascar:
http://seanmalstrom.wordpress.com/2009/08/18/question-to-nintendo-apologists/
Please read it, as you might learn something.
Response from Malstrom's blog:
"However, I wanted to hone in on one particular aspect of the article, the idea that Nintendo has left behind its older fans. I do feel that Nintendo has left behind its older fans and from what I see on the comments page to Jim’s article, it seems obvious that I am not alone."
What goof juice is this? Nintendo already were leaving behind their older fans especially those fans who bought the NES and SNES. The N64 and Gamecube installed base just kept shrinking. There hasn’t been a new 2d Mario in, what, fifteen years? Nintendo is actually regaining fans they have left behind. New 2d Marios attract those who bought the SNES and NES. The simpler games such as Wii Sports is regaining those fans that got left behind on the NES when Nintendo stopped making gameplay simple like the NES sports games. It is not a mistake that Wii Sports Golf is using the same exact golf courses found in NES Golf. Did this writer miss the Virtual Console or something? Why have a Virtual Console if not for older fans? What about Punchout Wii? That seems to be a game made for ‘older fans’. The Expanded Market is not just brand new gamers. It was gamers who drifted away from gaming. They could have drifted away since Pong, or Atari 2600, or NES, or SNES, but they did drift away. Nintendo definately wants them to come back. Look at Mario Kart DS and Mario Kart Wii sales. You can’t pin all those sales numbers on new gamers. Many gamers are returning and are getting those type of games. So this starting premise isn’t correct. The old fans of Nintendo are not fans of N64 and Gamecube games. Old fans of Nintendo are SNES/NES/ Nintendo Arcade gamers. I remember playing Popeye when it came out in the arcade. Do you?
"Many Nintendo supporters however, will counter this allegation by saying that Nintendo needed to shift its focus away from its base in order to achieve the widespread success that the Wii has given them."
Nintendo’s “base” was rapidly shrinking. The declinine install base of NES to Gamecube clearly shows this. The real question is whether there was any ‘base’ to really appeal to.
"Apple and Nintendo are both similar companies, not only because they make consumer electronics, but because both companies rely heavily on perception and buzz as a large part of their business strategy."
Oh God no. The similarity between Apple and Nintendo is that they are focused on the user-experience.
"Nintendo has made or been associated with a number of silly and stupid ideas far earlier than Miyamoto’s “performance” at E3 2008 made one of the genius’ of the gaming world look like an idiot. The Power Glove, R.O.B., the Virtual Boy, etc are three prominent examples that come to mind that, especially with the advantage of hindsight and freed from the hype of the time, should have been recognized as being ridiculous, silly, and a piece of electronics that either did not work the way it was “supposed” to (in the case of the Power Glove) or was simply too limited to accomplish what it set out to do (i.e. Virtual Boy). Yet at the time, these were all products that were given more than the benefit of the doubt and even now, these failures are allowed viewed in a “fond” light and a “cute” entry in the encyclopedia of Nintendo history. This is what a hardcore fan base allows you to do: get away with potentially business-killing screw-ups."
Why doesn’t he apply that last line toward the billion dollar losing consoles that Microsoft and Sony have made? This guy doesn’t know what he is talking about. Power Glove was made by Mattel, not Nintendo. R.O.B. absolutely was a great business success as it fooled retailers to think the NES was a ‘toy’ rather than a ‘video-game console’ which was very important after the crash. And while the Virtual Boy was quite a failure, it shows that Nintendo fans do not buy whatever comes out of the company.
"For all of its success, Apple has made its fair share of screw-ups too. In the years prior to the iMac and iPod’s success, Apple was in quite possibly the most pathetic position that a company could be in (it had to accept a “bailout” from Bill Gates, who made a hilariously booed appearance at the 1997 MacWorld Expo in which this was announced)."
This is just not true. Microsoft was caught stealing Quicktime’s code because they were struggling to get Video for Windows to work. The outcome was that Microsoft had to pay a $150 million dollar investment in non-voting stock in Apple, continue producing Office for Mac, and make a public endorsement of the Macintosh platform. Ultimately, this outcome ended up being very good for Microsoft. Investing in Apple before their stock exploded allowed Microsoft to sell the stock for twenty times more than what they purchased it for. Microsoft never loses money selling software on the Mac. Mac users are more notorious for actually paying for their software unlike on Windows. Saying Microsoft ‘bailed out’ Apple is completely untrue. Microsoft got caught in a crime, their hand got caught in the Quicktime Cookie Jar code. And they paid dearly for stealing Apple’s code.
"Yet Apple was still loved and supported by a large hardcore fanbase that saw it through the hard times. This is exactly the case with Nintendo, which hit a low point during the time of the N64 and GameCube, but was still supported by its fan base."
To be blunt, the N64 and Gamecube were carried by children, not ‘hardcore gamers’. Sorry dude. In the same way, most customers of the GBA were children. There is a reason why Sony and Microsoft marketing keep joking that Nintendo’s latest offering (whatever it would be) is just trying to appeal to the Pokemon crowd. Gamecube was called a ‘kiddy console’, for better or worse.
"One thing that separates Apple and Nintendo however, is that Apple has never given up, left behind, or even given the impression of caring less about the importance of its hardcore."
This guy doesn’t know Apple fans. Many Apple fans are not too happy about Macs becoming more popular. When they heard that Apple wants to start selling Macs at Wal-Mart, they blew a gasket.
"Hell, consider the fact that Jobs has been investigated by the SEC for a variety of questionable financial activities and the public and investors are still in love with him and his products."
Why would anyone not like someone or something just because they are being investigated? Investigated is not evidence of guilt. People get investigated all the time.
"In contrast, once Nintendo found success with the Wii, they have continuously failed time and time again to satisfy the expectations of a good portion of its fan base."
I know! Those sales of Mario Kart Wii are really bad, worse than Double Dash!
"The fact is, Nintendo will churn out a failure sometime in the future: it is statistically impossible that this will not happen. Nintendo, with its actions with the Wii generation, have proven that it is the business equivalent of the unpopular geek who gets a shiny new car, gets invited into the popular crowd, and then dumps all of his old D&D geek friends. In all of these movies and TV episodes, the popular crowd eventually dumps the kid when he/she has outlived his or her usefulness and end up crawling back to his old friends. Will we still welcome Nintendo back when the popular crowd has thrown it under the bus? When Nintendo reaches that low point, will we still be willing to give them that leeway?"
It is funny that these writers have the same dream: desiring Nintendo crawling on their hands and knees to them and begging forgiveness. “Forgive me, Hardcore Gamer, for carousing with the casuals.” Will we forgive Nintendo or not? It is like I am overhearing a conversation of teenage girls. “When he gets tired of his new girlfriend and comes crawling back to me, will I be able to forgive him?” “Listen girlfriend! He has showed that he has no class! You need to meet new boys. I hear that Xbox 360 fellow has a big processor and some mighty fine graphics.” “Ooohhh!” she giggles. Everyone knows that the best selling N64 and Gamecube games are the Mario, Zelda, Metroid, Smash Brothers, and Paper Mario ones. Yet, sequels to these games do not satisfy the hardcore. The hardcore are reminding me of the spoiled older sibling when the younger sibling is born. Now, the child is no longer an ‘only child’. Attention is going to be divided. I can understand if Nintendo is no longer making the games you want. But I find it disturbing that people’s happiness depends on whether a corporation coddles them. Take a hint from the Expanded Market and get a life. You have two other consoles that appeal directly to the ‘hardcore’. Why must all three consoles do so? Are they so selfish that ALL GAMES must cater to their taste? They should look at things from the Expanded Market’s perspective. We see only part of one console trying to appeal to us. The other two have nothing to appeal us to. And despite this small sliver of attention, the hardcore are bawling their little heads off.
I'm glad you were able to pull yourself away from the soul-sapping games long enough to write another Nintendo blog. It took you, what, four months? Slacker.
I just read the Malstrom response and condescending tone aside he presents a lot of points that I was going to make. Namely, when you say that Nintendo is abandoning its core, I say that Nintendo is regaining the core that they lost after the NES and SNES days. There is this sentiment among gamers that Nintendo should be growing up with them and that today's games don't strike the same chord that they once did years ago. There's a good reason for that: Nintendo skews younger. Their games are made for "everyone," but in order to be tailored for everyone the games have to be suitable for the lowest age bracket, young children. It's perfectly fine if the long-standing gamers are tired of the sequels and think the new games, like the Wii line, are not for them. If anything, Nintendo has lost its way over the past couple of generations and is only now doing what it did when it broke out on the scene.
However, I have two responses to your suggestion that Nintendo isn't appealing to the enthusiast and new/returning gamer equally. First, the smart aleck response. The Wii may be the most despised of the three major home consoles in Internet gaming circles, but the DS is regarded as one of the greatest if not the greatest gaming device ever conceived. Nintendo made both. If Nintendo is doing the "casual" thing with the Wii, it is doing the "hardcore" thing with the DS. There. Balance.
Now, the serious response. Let us assume that Nintendo has in fact truly given the long-time players the cold shoulder and are pursuing the new customers with all their financial might. Disappointing, I bet. But I'm sensing a double standard. When Nintendo goes after the "kids" and "grandmas," traditional gamers go up in arms because they aren't being catered to. But flip that around, say Nintendo were to become more like Atlus in its game output, would there be any dissent? I wouldn't think so. You guys would be thrilled. You guys would be so pleased if EA decided to drop the yearly sports franchises in favor of dedicated support for IPs like Dead Space and Mirror's Edge. Would anyone really care that the new gamers, the one's introduced to Wii Sports and its ilk, or the one-off gamers, who only buy the one or two games a year, were being left in the dust?
I wrote a piece back in May about the importance of so-called "kiddy" games and how the appropriate quality and attention is no longer being directed towards younger gamers because they are assumed to be naïve or just plain dumb. You could probably attach that same argument to the new-gen gamers. What favors are we doing be assuming that they don't know any better? What good comes from treating a large buying public as basically a bunch of backwater hicks? They deserve attention too. Ideally, it should be balanced between to oldies and the newbies, but if it slants towards the latter, what's the big issue? The old-timers get way too much attention, more than they deserve, to begin with. Maybe it's time for some of that to be taken away and distributed elsewhere.
Wow great read. Can't say I've ever thought about things that way before, but I definitely agree.
I count myself as being one of the Nintendo lovers, ever since the NES a Nintendo has been my machine of choice. Not purely because of brand loyalty, but simply that Nintendo had the games I loved (well I guess that kind of [i]is[i/] brand loyalty... ahem). It's only this generation after being continually dissapointed with the Wii that my console of choice has changed.
However, I know that when that time comes and Nintendo needs me again, when Nintendo is sorry, when all the old people have died and the mums have gone back to the kitchen, I'll blindly accept Nintendo back, like so many beaten wives.
...BBCode fail. You get the point.
@ Brimtastic - Did you not read the two posts above you?
I have decided to respond to Sean Malstrom in a new cblog here: http://www.destructoid.com/blogs/Tascar/response-to-sean-malstrom-s-response-to-my-article-on-nintendo-apologists-145171.phtml
However, let me respond to megaStryke here despite that I go into more detail into your point later in my other blog. Let's just say that I do not agree with your assessment of the NES and the SNES. If someone left the NES and the SNES, it was because they either went to another video game system like the Genesis (which was a more hardcore system) or they were never interested in video games to begin with and only bought the device to see what all the press was about.
To me, there were plenty of games on all of the Nintendo games, NES, SNES, N64, GC, etc to appeal to all types and all ages. The problem I have with your argument is that to me, if people haven't gotten into gaming with all that is available out there in terms of games, it's not worth it for a video game fan to advocate going after them, especially since the way Nintendo has been getting them into gaming is through shoddy games that rely on fads. Again, I might be able to agree with you from an enthusiast point of view if these people would ever move on but the fact is, they are not "graduating" onto other types of games.
You talk about children games and how there are not enough for them. Respectfully, I disagree. There are more quality games for young people than there were during my time but I will not begrudge you for asking for more. My problem is that many of these people that Nintendo are targeting such as the grandmas and the mothers simply will never graduate onto anything else and I don't think it is ridiculous for a company to cater to this audience base.
You berate me and others for treating nongamers like dumb hicks but the fact is, that is an appropriate comparison. There are people that will simply never watch quality films. By your reasoning, a film like Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen should be lauded because it targets the non-hardcores and we hope that they will move onto better films after that. This is not the case. That logic wouldn't fly with movie fans. Not sure why we video game fans are defending this.
By the way, as I also said in my blog, Nintendo has managed for a long time to balance and please all sides. This generation they have failed completely to please the hardcore. I think your thought question about Nintendo becoming more like Atlus misses the point.