"I say we take off and nuke the entire site from orbit."
Space Marines are a bunch of wuss when they don't have their weaponry anymore though. Once they lose control of the situation they cannot adapt , Ripley and Neth can because they are smart (There's a whole metaphor with motherhood and women surviving in horror). Well smarter than the Marines at least , they live through the entire movie even after the encounter with the Queen.
It's a thing to pay homage to the concept of the Space Marine being a ruthless warrior of the galaxy but the transition to video games is sort of distorted. What I have gathered around from experience with those games is that they are mostly canon fodder like you said. The Warhammer 40k series is a perfect analogy because the Space Marines are ready to sacrifice their lives for a greater cause.
While the Space Marines of Aliens , well especially Hudson feel a urge to panic whenever he looses control on the battlefield. "Game over man! Game over!" While on the other hand Ripley is like SHUT UP AND TRY TO THINK STRAIGHT YOU STUPID GRUNT!
Grunts don't think they obey.
Space Marines are a bunch of wuss when they don't have their weaponry anymore though. Once they lose control of the situation they cannot adapt , Ripley and Neth can because they are smart (There's a whole metaphor with motherhood and women surviving in horror). Well smarter than the Marines at least , they live through the entire movie even after the encounter with the Queen.
It's a thing to pay homage to the concept of the Space Marine being a ruthless warrior of the galaxy but the transition to video games is sort of distorted. What I have gathered around from experience with those games is that they are mostly canon fodder like you said. The Warhammer 40k series is a perfect analogy because the Space Marines are ready to sacrifice their lives for a greater cause.
While the Space Marines of Aliens , well especially Hudson feel a urge to panic whenever he looses control on the battlefield. "Game over man! Game over!" While on the other hand Ripley is like SHUT UP AND TRY TO THINK STRAIGHT YOU STUPID GRUNT!
Grunts don't think they obey.
@ Kraid - while 40k sms are ready to sacrifice their lives for certain they are FAR from cannon fodder, that's what the pdf, penal legions, and imperial guard are for!
Oh details , details ;P Can we agree that the Starcraft Marines are expendable? Opening cinematic to the Terran campaign in Brood War is pretty self-explanatory. I don't remember if it's Stukov or DuGalle who is in the Battle Cruiser but they basically left the poor Marines to their doom against the Zerg invasion.
You get my point....
You get my point....
Yeah, I love that whole exchange between Ripley and Hudson later on. There's also a scene where Hicks shouts at Hudson and Vasquez, but then apologises for the outburst. Yet you rarely see anything like that in videogames. Those kind of virtual marines are just 'do or die' types where nothing phases them. They don't ever go through the motions like the surviving Colonial Marines.
The Warhammer Space Marines are a completely different breed, since they're futuristic versions of crusading soldiers (and the whole Dark Age mythos that Games Workshop sell themselves on). That translates well in videogames and I don't have a beef with that, though I wish they made more 'small team' based games for the 40K universe. But I guess I'm a tactics whore!
The Warhammer Space Marines are a completely different breed, since they're futuristic versions of crusading soldiers (and the whole Dark Age mythos that Games Workshop sell themselves on). That translates well in videogames and I don't have a beef with that, though I wish they made more 'small team' based games for the 40K universe. But I guess I'm a tactics whore!
Do you really think there's a difference between the Warhammer ones and the Aliens one though? One thrives for "religion" the other one for salary.
I think they're pretty similar in terms fanaticism that's for sure , it might not be the same calling but these guys are mindless brutes nonetheless.
I think they're pretty similar in terms fanaticism that's for sure , it might not be the same calling but these guys are mindless brutes nonetheless.
Yeah, but if the Colonial Marines were mindless brutes, we wouldn't really connect with someone like Hicks, nor would we believe that Vasquez and Drake would disobey Gorman's orders in the reactor. They follow orders early on because they're expecting a wild goose chase. Once the shit hits the fan though, they're ready to give Weyland-Yutani the finger and nuke the place.
It's funny you say that because at the very beginning of Dawn of War 2 campaign when you need to rescue Davian Thule from the Orcs and they make the same exact decision when things starts to get messy , they evacuate and use orbital strikes to wipe out the Tyranids forces on the planet.
Oh you silly Space Marines , when in doubt Nuke the fuck out of everything :P
Oh you silly Space Marines , when in doubt Nuke the fuck out of everything :P
Something I really liked about Dead Space was that it took a while for shit to hit the fan. I should really finish that. I have yet to get to a point where the Necromorphs are no longer a threat. I would also like to give Extraction a go. I think that might have some of the story-telling character elements you speak of...even if they're a scientific research crew instead of marines.
@Kraid
I absolutely love 40k. My head is just swimming in nostalgia after the mere mention of the series.
The part where the Terran Marines are abandoned to the Zerg was an amazing cinematic. I usually found Star Craft to be pretty tongue in cheek, but that scene was really powerful and thought provoking.
@Kraid
I absolutely love 40k. My head is just swimming in nostalgia after the mere mention of the series.
The part where the Terran Marines are abandoned to the Zerg was an amazing cinematic. I usually found Star Craft to be pretty tongue in cheek, but that scene was really powerful and thought provoking.
I have to say that on my first play through of Dead Space, I upgraded my rig and not my weapons and I ended up running out of ammo a lot: that made the game hella scary for me.
But yeah, developers look at the Marines just as expendable flesh bags nothing more.
But yeah, developers look at the Marines just as expendable flesh bags nothing more.
I think by Chapter 4 in Dead Space, you're already walking around with at least three weapons and suit powers. That's why they introduce the Brute early on. That bit wasn't so bad, but then they just kept piling on the weapons.
Personally, I thought the game should had you salvaging parts for guns and customising your own with strengths and weaknesses, rather than give you standard weapon types under different names e.g. the line gun is obviously a shotgun.
Funnily enough, space marines pop up in Dead Space too, only to be completely wiped out on arrival. That is kind of necessary though because you're playing from the perspective of an engineer who wants to be rescued.
I really do give Dead Space a hard time! Ha! Probably more so when the sequel comes out, since to me at least, Issac Clarke is now Ellen Ripley with jet-boots.
Personally, I thought the game should had you salvaging parts for guns and customising your own with strengths and weaknesses, rather than give you standard weapon types under different names e.g. the line gun is obviously a shotgun.
Funnily enough, space marines pop up in Dead Space too, only to be completely wiped out on arrival. That is kind of necessary though because you're playing from the perspective of an engineer who wants to be rescued.
I really do give Dead Space a hard time! Ha! Probably more so when the sequel comes out, since to me at least, Issac Clarke is now Ellen Ripley with jet-boots.
"Resident Evil, Silent Hill and Left 4 Dead are horror videogames that understand this mechanic when it comes to the protagonist/creature relationship. Their enemies scale in comparison to their protagonists, so why can’t videogame developers who make games involving space marines do the same?"
It's interesting that you point this out, because I think it's a major reason why the more recent Resident Evil games (specifically 5) aren't as scary to play. In 5, when you control a musclebound badass with biceps as big as my head and the ability to punch out boulders, you lose that sense of vulnerability.
Compare that to Nemesis, where the titular monster was the musclebound badass, not the protagonist you controlled. Show of hands, how many people here still freak out when you hear "SSTAAAAAAAAARSS" in the game, and know he's just around the corner coming for you. All the Delta Force training in the world won't save your miniskirt-bound ass now, and that realization is what puts the horror in "survival horror"
It's interesting that you point this out, because I think it's a major reason why the more recent Resident Evil games (specifically 5) aren't as scary to play. In 5, when you control a musclebound badass with biceps as big as my head and the ability to punch out boulders, you lose that sense of vulnerability.
Compare that to Nemesis, where the titular monster was the musclebound badass, not the protagonist you controlled. Show of hands, how many people here still freak out when you hear "SSTAAAAAAAAARSS" in the game, and know he's just around the corner coming for you. All the Delta Force training in the world won't save your miniskirt-bound ass now, and that realization is what puts the horror in "survival horror"
Meh, Aliens is purely a film works off pure intensity in least the second half. No so much a film as a roller coaster on celluloid. The story is dumb and the dialogue ham-fisted and laughable. It is a script of one liners and no intelligence.
If Halo and other games cannot meet that level that doesn't mean Aliens is good, it means the games are stranding on the shoulders of a dwarf with Rickets.
If Halo and other games cannot meet that level that doesn't mean Aliens is good, it means the games are stranding on the shoulders of a dwarf with Rickets.
Excellent blog!
I think developers are adapting the Starship Troopers version... cause Casper Van Dien created such a strong, sympathetic soldier with his incredible acting skillz! The fact that Heinlein's book was pretty much distorted and ignored made the film all the better of course.
... and who can forget the classic line "I hear you got a bug problem ma'am?"... so deep, so memorable.
God I love that film... so glad there were sequels and that devs follow the right sci fi movie in their quest for space marine perfection!!
:)
I think developers are adapting the Starship Troopers version... cause Casper Van Dien created such a strong, sympathetic soldier with his incredible acting skillz! The fact that Heinlein's book was pretty much distorted and ignored made the film all the better of course.
... and who can forget the classic line "I hear you got a bug problem ma'am?"... so deep, so memorable.
God I love that film... so glad there were sequels and that devs follow the right sci fi movie in their quest for space marine perfection!!
:)
@monkeyKing1969: Aliens is awesome and will remain so long after we are all dead. There's my rebuttal. So take that.
@Monkey: Even if that was the general consensus (which it's not), Aliens would still be misinterpreted and badly copied by videogame developers to this day, which was the point of the blog...you know...if you had bothered to read it.
@Elsa: Yeah, and who could forget the boobs? I completely understood the subtext in Michael Ironside's speeches once they all got their boobies out. Without that scene, I think a lot of the satire would have gone over so many viewers' heads.
@Elsa: Yeah, and who could forget the boobs? I completely understood the subtext in Michael Ironside's speeches once they all got their boobies out. Without that scene, I think a lot of the satire would have gone over so many viewers' heads.
This deserves to be front paged. I absolutely love the premise of the overwhelmed protagonists showing humanity (or at least a fear/need for survival) in the darkest moments - and not just scripted events, but in actual AI mechanics and script. The closest thing I can think of is the generic pre-scripted Wilhelm-screaming of nameless grunts in the distance running from an approaching boss, only to be killed.
It would be great to see some of truly captured in the Aliens: Colonial Marines game, which is supposed to be a sci-fi themed Left 4 Dead as far as I know.
It would be great to see some of truly captured in the Aliens: Colonial Marines game, which is supposed to be a sci-fi themed Left 4 Dead as far as I know.

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