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Fallout 3, Mass Effect and Dragon Age Hater.
Silent Hill, Yakuza, Metal Gear Solid, The Witcher Fan.
Bioware hater, Obsidian fan.
Bethesda DESTROYER.

Also I'm a fan of great and imaginative indie games.
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Feel the Hatred: Fallout 3
Solivagant | 11:55 AM on 09.18.2008 55 comments


Caution: here there be SPOILERS concerning the original games in the Fallout series
Blogger's Note: Repost of the original story due to date issues



Bethesda has destroyed a franchise. Fallout was dead, and was revered as a masterpiece of roleplaying, story and atmosphere. Now, with their monkeying about, the franchise is being ressurected, but this isn’t the same Fallout the old fans knew. Of course, we old fans were already aware of that, and we kept telling people and we kept criticizing from the very first day, through the first trailer, through the gameplay videos. Not that many listened to us. I can say now that Bethesda has destroyed the actual Fallout franchise and replaced it with their sad and pathetic version.


Good night, sweet prince wearing the Power Armor helmet.

How did Bethesda destroy Fallout? Their game is a success even before release, previews are glowing, people already call it GOTY, and players all over the world have a new found interest in the post-apocalyptic world of the franchise. Well, that’s where they’re wrong. This isn’t Fallout. This is a mash-up of several inspirations, ideas, gimmicks and tricks, but it is no Fallout. This world, as Bethesda has rendered it, makes no inherent sense. It has no sense.


Monty Python

What exactly did they do? I’ll start with an analogy. Monty Python, the famed British comedians, belong to the top tier of nonsensical comedy. Every act that somehow bears resemblance to their style is usually compared with Monty Python, to see if they are really trying to ape Monty Python or don't even know anything about them. Now, take the Postal series of games. These games have a type of humour that is considered vulgar and based on pop culture references. Besides the first game, where humour was only in the killing, and was a very dark humour at that, the other games introduced such things as weapons that fired cats, terrorists as enemies, the ability to piss on people, etc. Obviously, not everybody gets this kind of humour. I don’t really appreciate it, and while people may laugh, there isn’t a consensus that the Postal games’ brand of comedy is something with quality, so to speak, unlike the Monty Python brand of comedy. Because whether or not you like the kind of stuff Monty Python did, you have to recognize their quality, such as one might not like classical music but will recognize its place and quality in the world.


Hai, Cat Shooter.

Now, what Bethesda has done, is pick something of Monty Python quality, and debase it to the likes of the Postal games.

Imagine that one of your favorite franchises, one of your favorite characters, or one of your favorite worlds, or one of your favorite movies was being brought back from the dead. But instead of that magic, instead of that marvel, all that you see is rubbish. This happens almost every time they make a movie based on an old TV show, or they recreate said TV show in the modern days, or they remake a cartoon or a really good old movie. Hell, they even remake foreign movies so that they are more palatable to the supposedly ignorant consumer. This is just wrong to do.

That's what's happening with Fallout.



They got Fallout’s atmosphere wrong. I’ll start with the radio. While it makes sense that the Pipboy would have a radio, it makes no sense that a TV company (Galaxy News) that was broadcasting news in 2077 is still around playing 50s songs in 2277. Wasn’t it destroyed? I’ll refer to Fallout 2’s intro:

“Earth was nearly wiped clean of life. A great cleansing, an atomic spark struck by human hands, quickly raged out of control. Spears of nuclear fire rained from the skies. Continents were swallowed in flames and fell beneath the boiling oceans. Humanity was almost extinguished, their spirits becoming part of the background radiation that blanketed the earth.”

Yes, it's not directly stated that TV companies were destroyed, but the outlook is pretty bleak. The possibility that someone found the Galaxy News station and started broadcasting the signal again, or that they never stopped broadcasting is very poor. I wonder if we can find the Galaxy News station in the game!

The worst part of the radio is obscuring what should be the main soundtrack of the game: sounds of a vast emptyness, inspiring a sense of dread and insecurity. That's what the originals did, and it worked really well.

Why is there an Enclave radio? Weren’t they destroyed by the Chosen One in Fallout 2’s ending? Course they could say they got some remnants and they banded together and went to the East, to rule over Washington. This goes completely against their original plan of wiping out the humanity, which was almost 99% infected with FEV, a virus that turns people into mutants, or simply changes their DNA, without mutating them. Everybody that was outside the vaults when the nukes were launched is almost 100% sure to have been infected, including their offspring and the folks that left the vaults after the war (most of the Wasteland’s population, in fact). The Enclave’s plan was to wipe everybody out so that they, the uninfected pure humans, could repopulate the Earth. I sure hope to see some of this in the game, and an explanation why they have those sputnik look alikes flying around recruiting people. Or why they land their Vertibirds and then shoot up random guys dressed in vault suits (the player) instead of trying to befriend them and have them reveal their vault location (source of pure humans for repopulation). They didn't care for the Chosen One in Fallout 2 because they already had a precious vault full of humans! Could this be the secret of the Enclave in Fallout 3?


Watch out, its the Enclave!

People will call these pet peeves. Or say that I’m just grasping for criticism. Well, I am. The game deserves it. It isn’t just that the game isn’t turn based or in isometric view. It’s not that they completely ignored the previous games musical scores, from what we’ve heard so far. It’s not that they decided that cars would create mini nuclear explosions. Let me put it to you this way: everything that they are being praised for was already in the previous games. The good things, the setting, the vaults and their story, the dark humour, all of that was created by competent developers and writers 10 years ago. And where’s their accolades? Where does Bethesda keep referring what was their original idea and what was already there? They don’t, mostly. Most games journalists praise Bethesda for the setting, even when they mention the previous games. That makes me mad.


Pretty cool that the Pipboy 3000 comes builtin with a bottle cap counter, ready for the makeshift currency!

What is Bethesda bringing to the table? The unnecessary pip boy 3000, which takes up almost the entire forearm, instead of being the size of a watch, like the original game's Pipboy 2000, the Dad storyline and facial similarity with the player, the illogical gore (while the original Fallout’s had gore, and lots of it, the animations actually made sense! Punching a guy in the torso and watching all the limbs pop out, even with the bloody mess perk, is just silly). The fact that you get radiation from drinking water, but walking around blowing up the nuclear plants inside cars is fair game.


Power Fist is Powerful.

They ressurect the Enclave, they gather the Super Mutants after their trek across the Wastes to the East (happened at the end of Fallout 1), they go and make sure the Brotherhood of Steel ALSO journeys to the East (a part of it), but amidst all this, where are the nuclear typhoons? I sure remember old Tycho (or was it Cassidy?) talking about the nuclear typhoons that were wrecking the central part North America. I wish we’d get to see those, or at least hear the travelling bands (Mutants, BOS, Enclave) tell tales of these dangers.

What happened here is that Bethesda picked up the major Western-bound factions in the Fallout series and relocated them to the East, for whatever reason. I’m sure the game will have a cockamie explanation, but couldn’t they have imagined some other threat? Or reused the Western setting? Continued the story? Shown us the future New California Republic? Or Arroyo as a civilized bustling city?

All that I see of the game is either a poor imitation of what came before or an exageration. The mutants now look gigantic and brutish, completely devoid of humane features, besides the humanoid build. The 50’s design is being taken to the limit, one would think the war really WAS in the 1950s (2077 is the big year, actually). The Vaultboy is being pimped everywhere. I see lots of avatars with Vaultboy images nowadays, but where were these Fallout fans 2 years ago? Now everybody loves this setting. And they owe it all to Bethesda. The setting now seems to focus almost completely on propaganda / funny dark humour / nuclear stuff blowing up. The original games also had sadness, melancholy, feelings of despair. None of that is being touted about. No one gives a damn about that. I don’t see Bethesda talking about the ending to Fallout 1, and how the Vault Dweller had to leave his vault even though he saved it from impending doom. I see some stuff about a Dad leaving, and quests saying “find Dad”, and you playing a 19 year old person. None of that is gripping me. I don't see the seeds for a rewarding quest. But that's something to look out for when the game comes out, see how their tale holds up.

Then there’s VATS. Basically it's Bethesda saying “hello there Fallout fans, this here is how we play the game nowadays, we replaced a turn based isometric system for an FPS with a pause button!”. That makes me mad.


Look kids, the Vault Dweller can pause time!

Another nasty gripe I have has to do with this affirmation going around; I don’t know whether a Bethesda spokesperson or a journalist said it, that the original Fallout just wasn’t an FPS because the technology wasn’t there. And now Bethesda was setting it right. How can someone say this kind of idiocy? I see this being touted sometimes as a defense for Fallout 3. But do they know that Fallout was originally an adaptation of the GURPS roleplaying system? Sorta like how Baldur’s Gate is an adaptation of the D&D system. Of course, that was changed during the course of Fallout’s development, but the base was built with that in mind. The game started as a translation of pen and paper gameplay for the computer. This is part of what makes Fallout, Fallout. And it was completely gutted by Bethesda. There isn’t a trace of that left. And the new fans and the journalists and Bethesda keep saying how Fallout’s strength is the story, and that they got that right (they didn't, not the bits they revealed already, as I showed earlier). I don’t think people would be so happy if Halo 3 was a turn based isometric game. Sure, you have Halo Wars which is an RTS, not an FPS, but it is called Halo Wars. It IS a spinoff. It’s not Halo 4. But they keep touting Fallout FPS as Fallout 3. And that makes me mad.


The original game's pitch.

If the game had another name, maybe Fallout FPS, or was just called “Post Apocalyptic Shooter" or some other thing, maybe it would be interesting. But not like this. And perhaps what I hate the most really is seeing this positive buzz surrounding such a sad attempt at a Fallout sequel.


COMING SOON TO A CONSOLE NEAR YOU

Just a quick rundown of some more gripes with the game:

Technology
Why is Technology so different? I suppose the vault dwellers of Vault 101 got different pipboys than the ones in Vault 13 and Vault 8 because they were in the other side of the continent, and since the vaults were social experiments for long term space travel according to the Fallout Bible (compiled by Chris Avellone, MCA for the Fallout fans, and released in several PDFs with answers to emails), Vault-Tek or the government decided to give better toys to only the Eastern vaults.

As for the power armor, even though by 2242 the original Brotherhood of Steel only had the original Mk1 suits (not even the Mk2 suits used by the Enclave), this new Eastern Brotherhood of Steel must have somehow, during their long trek through nuclear typhoons and the other dangers of central north america, developed different versions of the power armor. Or they could have found them in bases similar to the Sierra Army Base in Fallout 2. It’s an explanation, sure, but a crappy one.

Gore
Probably due to radiation, the human body in the east coast is a fluctuating reality. If using your vault assisted targetting system, you may get a critical shot that will make your enemy do some kind of a loop in midair when he is hit. Or when you hit a person with your powerfist, their arms and head will pop out. Maybe some electric shock provokes immediate limb amputation.

Endings
I almost forgot! 300 endings? Fallout 1 and 2 had slideshow endings that combined the outcomes of the several cities into one ending, depending on wether you killed that city senseless or helped it through quests or didn't touch it at all, and all of that was one ending. This 300 ending exageration is probably just that: all the combinations of all the ending slideshows that you can get. But where was Bethesda explaining the details of these 300 endings?

Weapons
Seriously, does anyone really like the Vroom-vroom gun? It shoots rail spikes, and it does this awful train sound when it fires... Where was this in the previous games? Or the lunch-box shooter for that matter? What does this have to do with Fallout? Why Bethesda? Why must you keep inventing crap and recycling goodness mixing it all into a big ball of turd?

Mutants
I remember Mutants looking like this:


But not like this:


There's something else that gets me the wrong way with how the mutants look. Marcus, a mutant from Fallout 2, travels to the East in search for the remnants of the Master's army, according to the Fallout Bible. If Bethesda remembered him and placed him in the game, how is he gonna look? Like his original handsome mutantness and then look completely out of place with the rest of the mutants, or will he be retrofitted to look like these awful "mutants" Bethesda is pimping around?


Marcus.

Here's a scan from the Vault Dweller guide handed out at PAX 2008:



It is stated in the guide that these drawings are "predictions" of the mutations that can happen due to the radiation out there in the Wasteland. These predictions are really accurate, they look exactly the same as the monsters in the screenshots! Great work, Vault-Tek!

Too bad that most of these monsters look entirely different than their original counterparts in the original games. Still, glad to see the CENTAUR getting some love, it's pratically identical. Too bad the Behemoth and Mirelurk King don't resemble anything I've seen anywhere in the series.


I saw a Mirelurk the other day...

Death of Pipboy
Oh yeah, Bethesda also completely eliminated the Pipboy, this chirpy fellow was the one adorning the Pipboy 2000, NOT the Vaultboy.



Abuse of the 50s look
More proof they have no idea what they're doing:

1950's classic Rockabilly gangs, living it up inside Vault 101. Guess the Vaults didn't have any more movies besides 50s stuff, and the bullies decided to emulate James Dean and friends. Probably the only decent looking screenshot I could find of the game, actually.

Final Thoughts:
I appreciate that because of all this buzz lots of people are experiencing the first games, and loving them. I welcome gladly all these new Fallout fans. It really is the best of this whole situation, the old games are getting some more attention, and they sure deserve it.

I'd like to thank No Mutants Allowed and Duck and Cover for most of the images and the Fallout wiki for being the best source of information concerning the series.


I hate you Fallout 3.



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54 comments | showing # 1 to 50
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falinter's Avatar - Comment posted on 09/18/2008 12:04
falinter
Well, that was a little bit too long.

Also, I don't think hes freezing time, I think it is meant more to be like the he is getting computer assisted targeting.

But whatever, hate what you hate man. It's cool.
Y0j1mb0's Avatar - Comment posted on 09/18/2008 12:05
Y0j1mb0
Shouldn't you wait till the game comes out and you play it before you start crying like a bitch why Bethesda ruined your self imposed vision of the Fallout franchise?
big filth's Avatar - Comment posted on 09/18/2008 12:16
big filth
tape your head to the bottom of the bathtub. turn on water. do us all a favor. k, thx.
randombullseye's Avatar - Comment posted on 09/18/2008 12:18
randombullseye
I know when I play through it next month I'll be sure to voice my opinion of it. I'm on media blackout on it. No videos. No new screenshots. Don't want to hear about any features. Just seeing less than a minute of gameplay video sold it to me. Saw the menu system, saw some combat, that was all I wanted from the game. Even with the slow motion follow ups to every murder, it still looks like a good game.

My question is: Will you be playing this when it comes out? From the tone of your article I couldn't tell if you wanted to play it or not.
CookieMonster's Avatar - Comment posted on 09/18/2008 12:19
CookieMonster
I bet most of the people who are going to comment on this, aren't even going to read the full extent of the article.

But anyway it's a great read for anyone who's willing enough to actually see from someone else's viewpoint on this game. So before..you know start sucking on Bethesda's balls, why not give this article a chance eh?
Y0j1mb0's Avatar - Comment posted on 09/18/2008 12:26
Y0j1mb0
Cookie Monster:

I bet you being on his friend's list makes you the only one that can read around here and formulate the right opinion. Perhaps you should take Solivagant's balls out of your mouth and realize that yes, people can have a different opinion from someone else regarding their point of view.

Also, last I heard, this game isn't even out yet. How about you wait to say how much you hate something until you play it?
Timmeh's Avatar - Comment posted on 09/18/2008 12:29
Timmeh
I was tempted to write something abou Fallout, but then I remembered you aren't allowed to be negative about the game unless you're on NMA. Everywhere else you're required to join the Bethesda circle jerk over Oblivion with guns.

Don't get me wrong, it looks like it'll be a decent game, but it's disappointing to know that this is the future of Fallout.

Also, I wish you guys would stop saying "Oh but the game isn't out yet, blah blah Bethesda is great I'm sure it'll be excellent". Here, as with other posts there's plenty of valid points made and we've seen a lot of info about the game by now.
Count Grishnack's Avatar - Comment posted on 09/18/2008 12:30
Count Grishnack
I don't want to read a 20,000 treatise bashing a game that is not out yet.
randombullseye's Avatar - Comment posted on 09/18/2008 12:34
randombullseye
@Colnit

Welcome to the internet and its passionate walls of text, about nothing.
blehman's Avatar - Comment posted on 09/18/2008 12:34
blehman
...says the guy with a fallout 3 avatar.

Oh, and the vaultboy avatars were for a contest.

And on the piece, like you said, it really does read like you went out of your way to compare a new take on an old franchise, which you must really love btw, and rip it to pieces in whatever way you could. Personally I'm excited about it after seeing it in action at PAX, but if it's not your thing man, it's not your thing. Like falinter said, hate what you hate man, it's cool. That's what the MM is about this month anyway.
Jesus H Christ's Avatar - Comment posted on 09/18/2008 12:34
Jesus H Christ
If you don't like what Fallout 3 is shaping up to be that's fine, but Bethesda has in no way ruined the Fallout franchise. Fallout 1 and 2 are still there. You can still play them. Nothing about them has changed. The only effect that Fallout 3 may have on the previous two games is to get more people to play them.

I for one am looking very much forward to Fallout 3 whereas the first two games never cought my eye (though I'm not much of a PC guy). I suggest you at least play the game with as open a mind as possible before you write the game off.
KamikazeTutor's Avatar - Comment posted on 09/18/2008 12:35
KamikazeTutor
Jesus, don't call yourself a Fallout fan, ever.

There was light humor on the previous Fallout games.
Remember the working TV on Fallout's intro?
Remember the "bloody mess" perk?
Not everyone is keen to the whole FPS thing, thus the VATS.
Like the Mutants wouldn't mutate more in 100 years.
Remember the huge godzilla-like footprint you could find on Fallout?
You find big mutant crabs stupid but you accept big mutant scorpions?

Fallout takes place in 2161 in Southern California.
Fallout 2 takes place in 2241 in Northern California and Nevada.
Fallout 3 takes place in 2277 in Washington, D.C.

You'd think that with the previous knowledge humanity should be able to get their technology back together, hu?

And screw the pipboy, he's not as charismatic as the vault boy.
timtheterrible's Avatar - Comment posted on 09/18/2008 12:35
timtheterrible
All of the references to 50's trends being absolutely out of place in the world of Fallout seem a bit unnecessary to me, as trends seem to flow in cycles anyway. For instance: remember the garage rock revival of the early 2000's? Everyone wanted to sound like the Rolling Stones and AC/DC: The Hives, The White Stripes, The Vines, etc. The music was very popular, even though the real inspiration for the songs had already come and went in terms of mainstream popularity. Also, women were wearing bell-bottoms again all of about six years ago. Like everything else in history, trends tend to repeat themselves, so I really don't have a problem with Bethesda's choice in that respect. Honestly, what kind of sound-track/look do YOU think would have worked better for this game?
Phantom Spaceman's Avatar - Comment posted on 09/18/2008 12:37
Phantom Spaceman
@CookieMonster: Yep, I sure didn't.

Wow. Long post is long.

1.Pip-Boy counts bottlecaps: Pip-Boy also keeps track of stats and hit-points, as it did in the original. Illogical? See: videogames.

2.The Vault Dweller can pause time: What, kind of like turn-based combat?

3.ZOMG FALLOUT IS AN FPS NOW: It's 2008. They don't make isometric-view turn-based RPGs anymore because they want to drive nice cars, and also, eat. Believe it or not, a first-person view can be very immsersive; you have no idea how realistic this office looks right now.

4.Big mutant is big. I'll give you that.

5.Kids in Vault wear leather-jackets: the whole aesthetic of the series is based around a view of the future from the perspective of the 50s. How does this not fit in?
CookieMonster's Avatar - Comment posted on 09/18/2008 12:37
CookieMonster
@Y0j1mb0

I have no idea why you took my comment so personally, but I wasn't referring to you specifically, but to everyone in general. So before you come out with your flaming and insults you'd probably do well to take a deep breath and count to 10.

And where the fuck, did I state that your opinion was wrong? Or any lesser than the guy who wrote the article? Sheesh get a grip.
JACK of No Trades's Avatar - Comment posted on 09/18/2008 12:38
JACK of No Trades
Yojimbo

I know where you are comming from, but I see his point. He loves the story of Fallout 1 & 2 and he is pissed that Fallout 3 barely resembles the the first two games that he loves with all out his heart.

For example: Let say in ten years there was a game sequel released that you and I adored from back in the day that didn't follow the stoyline that you and I loved.

Lets say a Bioshock sequel was released in 2018 with a 90% different stoyline and the bigdaddy's are now 12 inch tall ankle bitters. Wouldn't you be pissed?
Y0j1mb0's Avatar - Comment posted on 09/18/2008 12:38
Y0j1mb0
Timmeh:

I think your a thoughtful person but where the FUCK did I say:

"Oh but the game isn't out yet, blah blah Bethesda is great I'm sure it'll be excellent". ??

I'll reserve my judgment when it comes out and I play it. To pass judgment beforehand is as retarded as saying : I hate [insert food of choice here] and never tasted it.
king3vbo's Avatar - Comment posted on 09/18/2008 12:39
king3vbo
Feel The Hatred: People like you

As a hardcore Fallout fan, and I mean HARDCORE, I am super excited for Fallout 3. I honestly don't see why you fucks have to be so nitpicky about everything. Just sit back and enjoy that there's a Fallout game coming out, even if OH NOES ITS NOT MADE BY THE SAME GUYS
Blue Ryd3r's Avatar - Comment posted on 09/18/2008 12:45
Blue Ryd3r
I loved the first two fallouts. I was super excited when I heard that somebody got their hands on the franchise and was making another. And you know what I'm glad it was Bethesda and not something like Sony.

I can under stand your pain though. I used to be a big Star Wars fan but after "The legacy of the Force" books, that new cartoon movie, hell even after playing Force Unleashed...not to mention episode 3, I juest don't know what I feel anymore.

So sail on sailor. But I dare not to even rent this game. I know you want to.
fetusmilk's Avatar - Comment posted on 09/18/2008 12:52
fetusmilk
i read it. and hes comparing things from one game to another. from what i understand your not the same guy as in the other fallouts.
alot of time has passed since fallout 2.
and in a world where mostly everything was destroyed what makes you think theres gonna be new 1990's cloths to wear? they still have the same shit as when the world turned.

also you dont have to play it using the VATS system, you can do FPS style. the VATSs ystem is a more tactile way of playing. more RPG if you will. also dont forget fallout 1&2 stopped while it was your turn, maybe it was magic and made everyone else freeze while you did your turn.

and just because something doesnt look the same as an older game doesnt make it bad. "oh no the mutants dont look like orcs anymore boo-hoo" i think they look more realistic, rather than D&D looking orcs/ogers.

dont get me wrong i was a big fan of the fallout 1&2. and i will love this one as well.
roninnogitsune's Avatar - Comment posted on 09/18/2008 12:57
roninnogitsune
dang, you forgot to complain about the Mesmatron and the Fire breathing ants. *sarcasm*

Sorry I feel that this blog's a prejudiced rant. I agree with Y0j1mb0 that you have to play the game before complaining.

Sadly I think you're going to be missing out on a great game. I can't be certain but Fallout 3 looks very fun and I have a good feeling it will be a great RPG. Bethesda's a good company for PC RPGs and are putting in a lot of work to make the game great. I can't say the game will be good or not since I haven't played it but I do have a good feeling. A good enough feeling that I preorded it.
Timmeh's Avatar - Comment posted on 09/18/2008 13:02
Timmeh
@Y0jimbo: I wasn't takling about you, I've seen a few well (and maybe not so well) thought out posts discussing why people aren't liking the new direction Fallout is taking receive some pretty harsh comments for not liking the game.

As I said, there's been plenty revealed so far that I can legitimately say I don't like -that exchanges between characters are every bit as wooden and lifeless as Oblivion for example- but it seems that criticising isn't allowed. I just think there's some double standards considering the same reaction is perfectly fine for Silent Hill: Homecoming, is that because more prominent people (and at least one editor) have voiced their concerns over the game?
Demtor's Avatar - Comment posted on 09/18/2008 13:08
Demtor
Wait, wtf? I saw this earlier this morning, commented. Then it disappears only to reappear? lol! Someone didn't like my comment I gave this post this morning? Hmmm?
Solivagant's Avatar - Comment posted on 09/18/2008 13:12
Solivagant
@Demtor
Actually, I appreciated your comment! I reposted the story because I started writing it two days ago, and when I turned it live today it didn't show up on the top, being a bit buried under other posts. I copy-pasted the article on a new one, and your comment remained on the previous version, which I hid. Feel free to repost your comment, though, I appreciate that kind fo feedback!
Scientist tz's Avatar - Comment posted on 09/18/2008 13:16
Scientist tz
Have you played it? No? Then STFU. You just spent a chunk of your day reviewing a game that you know essentially nothing about.

And, yeah, they could have made Fallout 3 an isometric turn-based deal and they would have sold a paltry amount of copies. I wouldn't have bought it. It's a tired old genre that I loved in the 90's but have grown tired of. It's a dead horse. Get over it.
Messer's Avatar - Comment posted on 09/18/2008 13:16
Messer
@Jack of no Trades

I don't think that any rational person would be pissed that something completely unrelated to BioSchock would not be BioShock (even if its called BioShock 2). I fail to comprehend this logic that many people bring up.

You should be more "pissed off" with Black Isle for ditching and outsourcing the game, than with Bethesda making a sequel.
KamikazeTutor's Avatar - Comment posted on 09/18/2008 13:16
KamikazeTutor
Comment again demtor :D
I wanna see it.
NotAZombie's Avatar - Comment posted on 09/18/2008 13:23
NotAZombie
"The unnecessary pip boy 3000, which takes up almost the entire forearm, instead of being the size of a watch, like the original game's Pipboy 2000,

Boo-fucking-hoo. Why the does it even matter how big the damn Pipboy is?
Demtor's Avatar - Comment posted on 09/18/2008 13:27
Demtor
Hehe, right on man. No biggie, just thought it was funny and worthy poking ya in the ribs over :)

Sadly I don't remember the exact wording. But I'll try.

I never quite got what Fallout fans hated about 3, but now I do and I disagree. I think the times of 1 and 2 are long gone and I don't see 3 (or any game for that matter) getting even remotely close to magic that the originals had. So I'll treat 3 as a new game instead of the same old stuff thats already been done.

Bethseda also does this with their games though, release a great engine, let the PC mod community fix/mod/change the hell out of it to make it the great game it should be. (ala Morrowind/Oblivion) and it boggles my mind when people play Bethseda games on console, because you can't custom mod anything. I can't wait for Fallout 3 to be released and months later swim through the amazing fan made creations, tweaks and changes through the wonderful nerd filled mod community.

Lets all stop with the hate on someone's opinion too, yikes. Can't a man speak his piece?
Vitamin Awesome's Avatar - Comment posted on 09/18/2008 13:32
Vitamin Awesome
Wait. Bethesda is ruining the Fallout Franchise?

Thank god that you showed me the light. I thought it was already ruined when Interplay released {i]Tactics[/i] and Brotherhood Of Steel.
Simmons 2pt0's Avatar - Comment posted on 09/18/2008 13:36
Simmons 2pt0
I loved the Fallout series, I've played through Fallout 1 and 2 countless times but I'm kind of meh towards Fallout 3. The only reason is because I didn't like Oblivion.

I'll probably give Fallout 3 a rent but if it is Oblivion with guns then that's all it will amount to. A Rental. And that saddens me.
Messer's Avatar - Comment posted on 09/18/2008 13:36
Messer
@ Vitamin Awesome

We can close this blog in about....now.
AngelsDontBurn's Avatar - Comment posted on 09/18/2008 13:55
AngelsDontBurn
I'm not even going to read this, the game isn't even out yet. This is just pointless whining / crying. OH GOD IT'S NOT LIKE THE OTHER GAMES! WAAAAAAH!

I love the Fallout universe and I loved the other games, and I look forward to 3. Well and I DO like the fact that it's different considering I think it fits the universe better.

All in all, I completely agree with King3vbo. The game still has bugs, it's still being worked on. Bitching about it now is pointless and really retarded on your part.
vexed alex's Avatar - Comment posted on 09/18/2008 13:58
vexed alex
Oh, great. Another Fallout "fan" who's crying about a game they haven't played.

You, know, this is why gamers piss me off. On one hand people are crying and bitching that Gears of War 2 is just an improvement of the firs. Bethesda tries to do something different with Fallout 3 it gets hacked away. Can you people make up your fucking minds? Can we also judge things after they've been released and after we've played them?

As far as I'm concerned you can have your old ass Fallout games. I'll be playing Fallout 3 and hopefully be having a blast.
Hemarroid's Avatar - Comment posted on 09/18/2008 14:21
Hemarroid
I don't get it... Why do you guys have this kind of reaction?
If it's attention that you want I guess that suicide is the better thing to you, but if your main objective is to comment this article... well in that case I have bad news to you... You have no brain!

With this taken care of, let's go to what is important here: the comment.
Well sure Bethesda would eventually make a shit like this, after seeing what they can do to a RPG (talking about Oblivion now), and of course they had to use the same game engine used in Oblivion. Why? Well, I really don't know why they think this way, but, they really think that Oblivion was great, that makes me think that they don't give a shit about players opinion. And if they don't give a shit about players opinion they will not give a damn about previous games of a series. 1+1=2 Baby!
roninnogitsune's Avatar - Comment posted on 09/18/2008 14:50
roninnogitsune
@Hemarroid: Where do you get the idea Bethesda doesn't care about player opinion? Because Oblivion was a misfire? Actually Oblivion did pretty well and they showed that they listened to players' complaints when they made Shivering Isles Expansion. They took many of the complaints about blandness to heart and made a world that was much more interesting.

Emil is Fallout 3's head writer not because Bethesda's blind to what people think, He's the head writer because out of all the writing in oblivion: his work was what the players liked the best.

They do listen to players opinion and strive to please. If they didn't then they would have gone belly up like Interplay did.
WastelandTraveler's Avatar - Comment posted on 09/18/2008 14:56
WastelandTraveler
Well I do agree with you completely there is just one thing...

welcome to the game industry. It has happened many times where another company picks up an older franchise and butchers its originality.

Fallout 3 is going to be nothing like the original fallout in terms of gameplay and complexity, I have come to terms with that. I have come to terms that Fallout 3 is just going to be a mainstream version of a great complex game.

But you know what... I'm ok with that, because ive always wanted a fallout game like this. Now don't get me wrong, the older ones will always be the one to give me the full pleasurable hard on. But fallout 3 is going to be a different snack for me.

Now should it have been called Fallout 3? Probably not.. Its like Quake 3 Arena.. Quake 3 wasn't exactly a squeal to any other Quake, it was a completely different approach to the series.. it should have been called Quake Arena. Same goes with Fallout 3, Give it the name "Fallout: A post Apocalyptic Shooter" Because really its no where near as complex as the old ones in terms of its rpg aspects and overall mechanics.

Believe me I understand, I had the same pain in my side with doom 3 when it was completely different from the originals, who knew demons with horns could turn into insects with multiple eyes.
Dagerr's Avatar - Comment posted on 09/18/2008 15:01
Dagerr
@King3VBO

Once again you say exactly what I was gonna say. I'm a HARDCORE Fallout Fan, and this "version" of Fallout makes me pretty happy, everything I read on it is not exactly the same as the previous games, but if I wanted to play the same game, I would just load up 1 + 2 again.
Dan CiTi's Avatar - Comment posted on 09/18/2008 15:03
Dan CiTi
There are frachises ruined by people how make them and those games are already OUT. I'm talking about MPO and MGS4. Until the game is released and you play a good amount of it, don't bitch about every fucking aspect possible. Bethesda could make a "proper" Fallout 3 with new graphics but still classically styled graphics and a few obviously needed tweaks or w/e. But that wouldn't sell. 2K wouldn't let them after how successful Oblivion was. It has to be a 1st/3rd person action RPG.

Anyway, it was a nice read.
Hemarroid's Avatar - Comment posted on 09/18/2008 15:04
Hemarroid
@oninnogitsune: Yeah sure Bethesda cares about you all, I'll say even that Bethesda loves you! But you know what? They love even more your money! That great expansion of yours is just a way of making you pay more for a shitty game, and what did they gave to you? More armor, monsters, quests and dungeons! FUCK YEAH! But what about the crappy AI? Bad voice acting? Boring quests? Well... I guess they'll eventually release another expansion that maybe will take care of that... or it will just add more crappy quests. TOASTY!
Dagerr's Avatar - Comment posted on 09/18/2008 15:08
Dagerr
Also...Isn't this just a list of items that are different between 1+2 and the upcoming Fallout 3?

Well, then let me be the first to thank you for listing it out. You could probably expand this into changes of button controls also, and changes in directories where the information is stored. You listed a good amount of hte changes, but not entirely all of them.

I should make a blog about all the changes from Rock Band 1 to Rock Band 2 and act like they killed the franchise! Then I can get an assload of comments and feel important...GENIUS!!!
Holyetheline's Avatar - Comment posted on 09/18/2008 15:08
Holyetheline
Wow dude what a fucking huge rant. Geeze.
GuitarAtomik's Avatar - Comment posted on 09/18/2008 16:06
GuitarAtomik
The majority of want I would say has already been said but I'll comment anyway. If you want Fallout 2.5 you're completely entitled to that but I honestly think this would be a better game than that would have ever been. Even if it completely sucks (and I doubt it since I've actually seen this at PAX and it looked amazing there), it's not going to "ruin" the franchise anymore than Tactics or BoS. Just get over it.

Also to the Bioshock -> Bioshock 2 comparison, the only way that analogy would make sense is if they did it 10 years from now, FPS games have somehow become antiquated to the point that they're unprofitable and highly obscure, and they decide to make Bioshock 2 in the popular, more immersive genre style of the time all while keeping the main atmosphere and feel. Even then it wouldn't make sense because I feel that Fallout is more about teh atmosphere, world, and ability of choice than it is about combat.
SurplusGamer's Avatar - Comment posted on 09/18/2008 16:12
SurplusGamer
Too premature; didn't read.
TheDreadHawk's Avatar - Comment posted on 09/18/2008 16:23
TheDreadHawk
Yeah, because further exposure to mutation won't make you look different and less human, right?

Basically, look at all the other people;s, especially king3evbo', comments and you'll see where I'm at on this.
Spartacus's Avatar - Comment posted on 09/18/2008 16:29
Spartacus
While you're of course allowed to hate Fallout 3 if you want, how about waiting until you play it first? The whole rant seems pretty baseless, you look for the tiniest little detail and say it's "ruining the franchise" just because it's not exactly like the first two games. I've played all three games, so let me just address a couple of your points:

"VATS is an FPS with a pause button"
Well then, aren't the first two just Diablo with a pause button? I like VATS and GURPS, but you have to admit that both of them pause time.

"PipBoy-3000 takes up entire forearm! This is unnecessary!"
It's not a big fucking deal that the PipBoy looks different. It's just not, OK? That's like complaining that the character you play as in Bioshock 2 is taller than Jack, which ruins the game.

"There's 300 endings!"
In this paragraph, you explain that the endings in Fallout 3 work the same way as in the first two, and then complain about it somehow. See, there's more than in the first two because it's a bigger game, and they weren't explaining the details because, who explains the details of the ending of the game you're working on? That would be stupid.

"The soundtrack kills the atmosphere! Waaaah!"
No, it doesn't. When I played it, the only music I heard was outside a ruined building, and it was coming from a broadcasting droid. Which is pretty atmospheric.

"The gore is illogical!"
If you pay close attention to the first two games, you can see rats exploding when you kick them. This game just has more modern graphics with which to see the exploding.

I'd be really interested to read your thoughts on the game after you've played it, assuming you will. Just maybe try not to hate games before they've come out.
ajaxender's Avatar - Comment posted on 09/18/2008 16:29
ajaxender
That was waaaaaaaaaaaaaay too long for a rant about a game that isnt due out for another month at least.

But from the third of it i read, you just want another fallout. Did you know you can go back and play fallout again?
DibbityDan's Avatar - Comment posted on 09/18/2008 16:39
DibbityDan
How could you say "if this was called 'fallout fps' maybe it would be interesting"? What ever happened to "don't judge a book by it's cover"? You decided that this game was completely uninteresting, because it's not called Fallout FPS. Moving on...

I played my brother's old copy of fallout 2 and to be honest, I played my first mission (kill some lizards in a cave) and I just quit right there. I might have been able to get into it with a little more play time but, come on, it's like 10 fuckin years old. I did, however, love the setting and the idea of a post-apocalyptic US. I think that this game will be much easier for me, because I'm really not into the turn-based thing. It just was too old to be accessible to me. I'm really into the whole "go anywhere" thing, and I know that was impossible in the 1990's.

So here's where I ask: How can you not be excited to play this game? Your love the Fallout franchise, and yet you don't want to play a beautifully made 3D version, just because it's not exactly like fallout 1 or 2. Jesus.
Gondorle's Avatar - Comment posted on 09/18/2008 17:56
Gondorle
Greetings,

First things first. Why the hell do some people bother commenting on a post without reading everything that is written on it? For all of you toads bashing the guy without even reading this perfectly written post about Fallout 3 fully, I think you ought to pick up your nipples and put them where they belong...seriously, it's fookin absurd to flame a post where, even if you do not agree with whats written on it, you can really see the man knows what hes talking about. It's not a mindless flame towards Fallout 3. It's very well constructed, it's got images and I'm pretty sure (I'm not a Fallout fanboy or anything like that) that it's accurate. And wasn't this supposed to be the hate event or whatever it's called? I don't know if the game will be good or bad, one thing I'm sure though, It's bethesda and from what I've read on forums and shit like that, Fallout 3 will suck balls as a Fallout game. Might be good as a Pos-Apocalyptic FPS sandbox game though. And yea, why the hell are people talking about Fallout3 and GOY in the same sentence? It's ridiculous :O... So many cool games coming, like Farcry 2, LBP, Dead Space, Resistance2, gears of war 2...

Anyway, my point is, if you can't read the full article because you say it's too long (reading is cool, food for thought btw...) you shouldn't really post anything bad about it... For all the people that READ the entire post and commented on it, flame or whatever, props :)
Twisted Imp's Avatar - Comment posted on 09/18/2008 20:05
Twisted Imp
@CookieMonster
You're right, it is wrong to judge him since we have not read it, but of course it makes sense to hate on a game you haven't even played.
And for your information, I did read it.
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