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I agree. U2 didn't necessarily bring anything new to the table, but it was the adventure, story, characters, and incredible action sequences that made up for it. Just because a sequel doesn't exactly innovate, doesn't mean it's not an incredible experience for the player.
You're really are making me want to buy this game... but in all honesty, perfect game scores don't mean anything to me anymore. GTA4 got perfect scores and I really hated the game. I found it incredibly boring after a short while and both the shooting and driving mechanics seemed gimped (compared to most shooter games or driving games like Burnout). MGS4 also got some perfect 10's... again, I hated the game. I'm not a stealth player and had no history with the franchise so I found the story confusing, the gameplay slow and the cutscenes incredibly long.
I'm sure I "might" like Uncharted 2 given all the rave reviews... but I know that I "do" like Borderlands and that given Bioware's history I "will" like Dragon Age Origins. Review scores just don't really matter. A 10 our of 10 is fine... but it's still opinion. Sacred 2 got terrible reviews and I liked that game a lot more than GTA4! :)
hmmm... and this was probably a giant rationalization on why I'm not buying Uncharted 2! LOL!
I'm sure I "might" like Uncharted 2 given all the rave reviews... but I know that I "do" like Borderlands and that given Bioware's history I "will" like Dragon Age Origins. Review scores just don't really matter. A 10 our of 10 is fine... but it's still opinion. Sacred 2 got terrible reviews and I liked that game a lot more than GTA4! :)
hmmm... and this was probably a giant rationalization on why I'm not buying Uncharted 2! LOL!
I don't care about review ratings. All I care about is that the game isn't a glitchy mess and wasn't a waste of my time and money.
This is an interesting mentality to take. I'm usually adverse to games that don't do anything to really innovate themselves, but it is true that sometimes polish is all you really need to make a truly enjoyable experience.
i had a weird glitch, was at part where you climb train again(chap15?) got to top,
cleared a bunch of bad guys. then 2 armored shotgun guys came out blocking the level exit, i killed them both but went to climb a ledge to end the level and the 2 guys sprung up(yes they were dead) and shot me in the back as i was climbing.
WTF!!!
cleared a bunch of bad guys. then 2 armored shotgun guys came out blocking the level exit, i killed them both but went to climb a ledge to end the level and the 2 guys sprung up(yes they were dead) and shot me in the back as i was climbing.
WTF!!!
I agree. A game shouldn't be held back because of lack of innovation so long as the overall experience is incredible.
Uncharted 2 is a game that EVERY PS3 owner should have in their collection and for that reason it deserves a very high score if not a perfect one imo.
Uncharted 2 is a game that EVERY PS3 owner should have in their collection and for that reason it deserves a very high score if not a perfect one imo.
anyone else notice the uncharted 2 case layout /look is different than all the other ps3 box layouts?
doesnt have the red "PS3" on the spine
doesnt have the red "PS3" on the spine
@fetus
I think that's gonna be the new standard of PS3 game packaging now. Either that or it's just for exclusives.
I think that's gonna be the new standard of PS3 game packaging now. Either that or it's just for exclusives.
"A great deal of commotion erupted when the site decided to give the game a 9.3"
I find it hilarious that people objected to that score. How is a 9.3 bad in any way, shape or form?
And yes, the only thing that matters in the long run is the quality of the game. Exempting a game form acclaim just because it uses a well-worn formula is snobby and pretentious.
I find it hilarious that people objected to that score. How is a 9.3 bad in any way, shape or form?
And yes, the only thing that matters in the long run is the quality of the game. Exempting a game form acclaim just because it uses a well-worn formula is snobby and pretentious.
Review scores suck. That is all.
Also, I'm getting some teeth taken out tommorow so I thought I might treat myself to this game afterwards.
Also, I'm getting some teeth taken out tommorow so I thought I might treat myself to this game afterwards.
We need to stop calling a 10/10 a perfect score. 10/10 should be the highest score giving to incredibly good games.
On a different note: Even a great game like Uncharted 2 has some major problems like the bad stealth in the second chapter or annoying boss fights. In the end every reviewer will have to balance wether the game actually deserves the highest score possible or not, but that is what professional game critics are paid for.
On a different note: Even a great game like Uncharted 2 has some major problems like the bad stealth in the second chapter or annoying boss fights. In the end every reviewer will have to balance wether the game actually deserves the highest score possible or not, but that is what professional game critics are paid for.
Combined subjective (Enjoyment) and objective (Measurable Quality such as bugs) scores are always going to vary from person to person. These days there's a third category, a pressured score, where a heavily hyped game has legions of people who will throw a fit at any deviation from what they expect. The latter factor fortunately doesn't affect Destructoid scores IMO, so they are the only ones I pay much attention to.
There shouldn't be a complex set of rules for the score, its ultimately a measure of the entire game - whether your 10 means absolutely without flaws, or with flaws, but negligible, is up to the reviewer.
There shouldn't be a complex set of rules for the score, its ultimately a measure of the entire game - whether your 10 means absolutely without flaws, or with flaws, but negligible, is up to the reviewer.
I completely agree with this post. A good game shouldn't be punished for not introducing something new. A bunch of new games lately have tried to go out of their way and introduce new concepts and, well, they've ended up hurting the game (Mirrors Edge is a perfect example).
A game shouldn't be punished for doing what it does best -assuming- it refines and fixes issues that previous games have had, not just continuing to have flaws (looking at you, Resident Evil 5). Uncharted 2 fixed the, few, flaws the original had and then put layers of polish on everything and in the end we got a game that was pretty much flawless. Assuming we uniformly consider Uncharted 2 a flawless game, why shouldn't we give it the equivalent of a 'flawless' score?
A game shouldn't be punished for doing what it does best -assuming- it refines and fixes issues that previous games have had, not just continuing to have flaws (looking at you, Resident Evil 5). Uncharted 2 fixed the, few, flaws the original had and then put layers of polish on everything and in the end we got a game that was pretty much flawless. Assuming we uniformly consider Uncharted 2 a flawless game, why shouldn't we give it the equivalent of a 'flawless' score?
I was really underwhelmed with the first game, but the constant barrage of good reviews dictates that I should probably give the franchise another go. Now it's just between this,Brutal Legend, Borderlands or Dragon Age. Too many games...
Even though I personally believe that the score system is bogus, and it really depends more on what the review has to say, I concur. The game does have some minor things that bother me, but that's all they are, they're small things that don't heavily impact how good the game is and how much fun it is to play. Also, the ending dialogue alone makes the game worth a 10/10 alone, it was that good.
I don't think any game will ever be completely perfect, but I think Uncharted 2 comes really damn close. It's probably the single best game I've ever played.
I think it's funny that Shawn (SilverDragon) specifically bumped up that Metacritic score from a 96 to a 97! :D
Yea for the MOST PART, I will say "if it doesn't innovate, it shouldn't get a NEAR perfect score" (a 10/10 is NEAR perfect, because NOTHING is technically perfect), but Uncharted 2 is just so damn good, it warrants it.
Yea for the MOST PART, I will say "if it doesn't innovate, it shouldn't get a NEAR perfect score" (a 10/10 is NEAR perfect, because NOTHING is technically perfect), but Uncharted 2 is just so damn good, it warrants it.
I usually do reviews in a forum outside this site, and I use a scale out of 100.
I think i still havent given a game a 100/100 yet, that is because I try to find it just for the best of the best I have tried. Several of my personal favorites have reached up to 96 I think, maybe it was Mother 3 or something else. I usually miss them by a few points just because they are not entirely perfect by some tiny flaws or details that make the game a little monotonous or not that enjoyable, but overall makes it amazing.
I still want to try Uncharted 2 because it looks very thrilling.
I think i still havent given a game a 100/100 yet, that is because I try to find it just for the best of the best I have tried. Several of my personal favorites have reached up to 96 I think, maybe it was Mother 3 or something else. I usually miss them by a few points just because they are not entirely perfect by some tiny flaws or details that make the game a little monotonous or not that enjoyable, but overall makes it amazing.
I still want to try Uncharted 2 because it looks very thrilling.
I don't think number scores should affect people as much as they do. They are just a way of letting you know if there are issues with the game without actually reading the review. If it is a 10, then obviously the issues are outweighed by the entire experience of the game. I dunno. People just need to chill the fuck out. Try a game out. If you don't like it, then you don't like it.
People worry too much about what other people think about a game. I don't know about you, but I play games that please me. I don't really give a shit if someone else thinks it is great.
People worry too much about what other people think about a game. I don't know about you, but I play games that please me. I don't really give a shit if someone else thinks it is great.
@ mkshiranui- Oh wait, are you talking about Okami?
Yeah, I took off a point because of the painting controls were sometimes a little too harsh on mistakes when trying to paint a straight line. I would have made them a little more lenient if I could, but over all they worked better than the PS2 controls and were an asset to the game.
@ Everybody- From where I stand, a 10/10 should only go to a game that you wouldn't change in any way, even if you could. It seems that a lot of people feel that way about Uncharted 2, and if they do, then they should definitely give it a personal 10/10. That doesn't mean that the game has innovative, or
"flawless" or whatever. It just means that there is nothing about it you would change.
My personal list of 10/10 games includes Mario 3, Resident Evil 4, Panzer Dragoon Saga, Mega Man 2, Super Metroid, and We <3 Katamari. None of those games are perfect to everybody, but I love them all exactly the way they are.
Yeah, I took off a point because of the painting controls were sometimes a little too harsh on mistakes when trying to paint a straight line. I would have made them a little more lenient if I could, but over all they worked better than the PS2 controls and were an asset to the game.
@ Everybody- From where I stand, a 10/10 should only go to a game that you wouldn't change in any way, even if you could. It seems that a lot of people feel that way about Uncharted 2, and if they do, then they should definitely give it a personal 10/10. That doesn't mean that the game has innovative, or
"flawless" or whatever. It just means that there is nothing about it you would change.
My personal list of 10/10 games includes Mario 3, Resident Evil 4, Panzer Dragoon Saga, Mega Man 2, Super Metroid, and We <3 Katamari. None of those games are perfect to everybody, but I love them all exactly the way they are.
For some reason, if you make your scale out of five instead of ten, people are much more willing to accept a perfect score.
The problem here is that there is no such thing as a "perfect" game. That's why 10s aren't considered "perfect".
"10s are as close to perfect as you will get in a genre or on a platform. Pure, untarnished videogame ecstasy"
"10s are as close to perfect as you will get in a genre or on a platform. Pure, untarnished videogame ecstasy"
We still need games like assassins creed and mirrors edge to push the boundaries a bit. They will eventually get it right and then we will have 10/10 games in those styles.
But yeah uncharted 2 deserves a 10. Its a perfect and complete package.
But yeah uncharted 2 deserves a 10. Its a perfect and complete package.
Absolutely nailed my opinion in the last paragraph! Even if we aren't seeing as much innovation these days with games and such, at least we are seeing people keeping it fresh and learning as we go to get things done right, mostly. We will, eventually, pull out of this blood and gore "hardcore" generation (or tardcore, you heard it from me--but no offense to anyone medically challenged)...and with games like this to lead the way I think everything is gonna be JUST fine. =)
@mkshiranui
Dtoid does that, Editor's Choice/Buy it/Rent it/Forget it. The 10 scale is there to fit in with the industry metacritic standard.
Dtoid does that, Editor's Choice/Buy it/Rent it/Forget it. The 10 scale is there to fit in with the industry metacritic standard.
First of all, good review! I should have bought the game this weekend but I'm waiting till the holidays when I can play it uninterrupted. I'm going a little crazy because of it.
Over the last few years I realized that not giving a game a 10/10 doesn't make sense. At one time I felt like it should be reserved for the most absolute perfect games, a "god-tier" of games, but now I think doing that is being over-critical. I'm starting to prefer the 5-point scale, or even the 10-point scale with incremental 0.5 levels. I mean, how do you really differentiate by 0.1?? Unless you are rating every single game yourself in the exact same frame of mind, what you feel is going to change from day to day. A broader rating system allows less room for error. Good blog btw!
Over the last few years I realized that not giving a game a 10/10 doesn't make sense. At one time I felt like it should be reserved for the most absolute perfect games, a "god-tier" of games, but now I think doing that is being over-critical. I'm starting to prefer the 5-point scale, or even the 10-point scale with incremental 0.5 levels. I mean, how do you really differentiate by 0.1?? Unless you are rating every single game yourself in the exact same frame of mind, what you feel is going to change from day to day. A broader rating system allows less room for error. Good blog btw!
I'm most interested in the words in the reviews, and the bias. I really like the reviews that I've read on Destructoid, because they tend to explicitly state bias when there is some, and they always do a good job of comparing games to other games that make for an appropriate comparison.
The entire 9.7/10 vs 10.0/10 doesn't hold any appeal to me. That level of specificity is entirely up to the individual perceptions of the writer, and I don't expect any reviewer to be that much alike to me that 0.3 is meaningful.
The entire 9.7/10 vs 10.0/10 doesn't hold any appeal to me. That level of specificity is entirely up to the individual perceptions of the writer, and I don't expect any reviewer to be that much alike to me that 0.3 is meaningful.
great article. I agree with the whole 10 should be considered as how well implemented all the elements and fun factor were added. To bad Yojim made me buy demon's souls, Trine, Critter Crunch and godknowswhatelse I cant afford another game...
I think Zelda: OoT might be perfect. I think it deserved the review scores it got. Characters, music, levels, environments, details, lore, I can't find any imperfection in anything.
@Milis
I'd argue that it should be given a "near perfect 10", but it had a few issues with level design (no one but the hardcores - myself included - "liked" the Water Temple), and the jumping system could have been better, among a few other nitpicks.
I'd argue that it should be given a "near perfect 10", but it had a few issues with level design (no one but the hardcores - myself included - "liked" the Water Temple), and the jumping system could have been better, among a few other nitpicks.
oops - I meant I would consider myself hardcore, and I didn't mind the Water Temple really, but everyone I talked to that isn't hated it.
I actually liked the fact that you didn't have to press a button to jump. I think it was beneficial to the flow of the game. It made sense since the game isn't a platformer, so a traditional jumping system wouldn't seem necessary to me.
What I mean is it gave the mechanic a more natural feeling. It is intended to be an RPG after all.
I can partially understand some of the complaints with the water temple.
I can partially understand some of the complaints with the water temple.
this is actually based on how you write your review. Most critics write out of their own personal enjoyment, which lends to 100/100 scores being tossed around. Some critics rate on audience enjoyment, where the review is geared towards how a general audience would receive the game. In this instance a game should never receive a 100/100 unless the critic believed that this game was universally enjoyable. Its all based on personal writing method.
That being said both reviews belong and are great reference points for a consumer. I'll refer to the Fire Emblem review as a classic example of audience enjoyment.
either way review scores will always fail to showcase the positive and negative aspects of a game.
That being said both reviews belong and are great reference points for a consumer. I'll refer to the Fire Emblem review as a classic example of audience enjoyment.
either way review scores will always fail to showcase the positive and negative aspects of a game.
Mr. SilverDragon1979, can I have your attention for a second?
How dare you call Mirror's Edge and Assassin's Creed shitty games? Where do you get off calling any game shitty? Seriously, what if I really like those game? Which I did, but that’s besides the point here. Games are not numbers and you (as a critic) out of all the people should know that. You job as a reviewer is not to pass judgment or to compare games to each other like they're household appliances, but to tell me (or the gaming community) about the game and why I should (and never ever why I shouldn’t) play it and what to look for when I do. I don't know about you, but I enjoy playing games, and I enjoy playing super polished games as much as I enjoy playing games that are innovative.
Let me clear something up for you, giving Uncharted 2 a 9.3 is not punishing it, what’s punishing is people like you who say that some games are shitty (quote: If you take a look back at many of the games that actually try to innovate, you'll notice a pattern of shitty games. /end quote) because they don't live up to your nonsensical standards. And you're supposed to be a community leader.
End rant. Sorry, I don't want to pick on you, but this has been bothering me for a while. Too Human was an awesome game!
How dare you call Mirror's Edge and Assassin's Creed shitty games? Where do you get off calling any game shitty? Seriously, what if I really like those game? Which I did, but that’s besides the point here. Games are not numbers and you (as a critic) out of all the people should know that. You job as a reviewer is not to pass judgment or to compare games to each other like they're household appliances, but to tell me (or the gaming community) about the game and why I should (and never ever why I shouldn’t) play it and what to look for when I do. I don't know about you, but I enjoy playing games, and I enjoy playing super polished games as much as I enjoy playing games that are innovative.
Let me clear something up for you, giving Uncharted 2 a 9.3 is not punishing it, what’s punishing is people like you who say that some games are shitty (quote: If you take a look back at many of the games that actually try to innovate, you'll notice a pattern of shitty games. /end quote) because they don't live up to your nonsensical standards. And you're supposed to be a community leader.
End rant. Sorry, I don't want to pick on you, but this has been bothering me for a while. Too Human was an awesome game!
@messer
Your argument is that he should give every game a good review because someone out there likes it? If he's not allowed to post his opinion then why even review anything? I read reviews because I want to see whether a $60 purchase is worth my time or not. If someone played all the way through it and didn't like it, I want to know that, instead of hearing some sugar coated review where every game gets brownie points.
Your argument is that he should give every game a good review because someone out there likes it? If he's not allowed to post his opinion then why even review anything? I read reviews because I want to see whether a $60 purchase is worth my time or not. If someone played all the way through it and didn't like it, I want to know that, instead of hearing some sugar coated review where every game gets brownie points.
AgentMOO, you can play any game you want without dumping 60$ on it(you can rent them you know, or wait and get them cheaper). And you can talk about good aspects of any game without sugar coating it. Just like you can make any game out to be shitty, when they're actually a lot of fun to play. And let me tell you, its a lot easier to badmouth a game than to make it look good.
@Messer:
While I might have called Mirror's Edge and Assassin's Creed shitty games, I actually enjoyed them both immensely. Just because I enjoyed them though doesn't mean they weren't chalk full of huge glaring flaws that extremely detracted from my gameplay experience. I was able to look past those flaws, but I can totally understand why a lot of people could not, and why they both got a lot of bad reviews.
As for calling a game shitty, while I might do that here on my personal Dtoid blog, I would never do that on Gamer Limit, or on any type of professional medium for that matter. I consider Dtoid a place I can come and get away from it all. I place where I can let me thoughts run free without having to worry about being curtious or professional. No one, including you, is going to take that away from me. I would never tell you not to speak your mind here.
Now back to my "job as a reviewer". This is definitely a place where we both disagree. While you think my job is to only explain why people should buy a game, I think my job is to explain both the good and the bad about a title. That doesn't mean I enjoy talking down aobut a game.
Actually if you read my most recent post about giving Darkest of Days a really bad score, you'll know that I stressed over it quite a bit. I hated the fact I had to rate it so low, but it deserved it. It wasn't my fault that the developers made a bad game. But I'm sure in hell not going to lie to my readers and tell them they should buy that game, because they shouldn't.
Now if you don't think I write good concise reviews that are fair, then you don't have to read them. You should know however that I put a great deal of time into all of my reviews. I try to look at games from my own perspective as well as from other people's, and I try to give the score I truly think the game deserves.
All of my reviews get sent directly to the publishers and the developers to be read by the people who market and create the game. They have put thousands of hours of their lives into these titles, and I would be doing them a disservice if I was not as honest and professional as possible.
While I might have called Mirror's Edge and Assassin's Creed shitty games, I actually enjoyed them both immensely. Just because I enjoyed them though doesn't mean they weren't chalk full of huge glaring flaws that extremely detracted from my gameplay experience. I was able to look past those flaws, but I can totally understand why a lot of people could not, and why they both got a lot of bad reviews.
As for calling a game shitty, while I might do that here on my personal Dtoid blog, I would never do that on Gamer Limit, or on any type of professional medium for that matter. I consider Dtoid a place I can come and get away from it all. I place where I can let me thoughts run free without having to worry about being curtious or professional. No one, including you, is going to take that away from me. I would never tell you not to speak your mind here.
Now back to my "job as a reviewer". This is definitely a place where we both disagree. While you think my job is to only explain why people should buy a game, I think my job is to explain both the good and the bad about a title. That doesn't mean I enjoy talking down aobut a game.
Actually if you read my most recent post about giving Darkest of Days a really bad score, you'll know that I stressed over it quite a bit. I hated the fact I had to rate it so low, but it deserved it. It wasn't my fault that the developers made a bad game. But I'm sure in hell not going to lie to my readers and tell them they should buy that game, because they shouldn't.
Now if you don't think I write good concise reviews that are fair, then you don't have to read them. You should know however that I put a great deal of time into all of my reviews. I try to look at games from my own perspective as well as from other people's, and I try to give the score I truly think the game deserves.
All of my reviews get sent directly to the publishers and the developers to be read by the people who market and create the game. They have put thousands of hours of their lives into these titles, and I would be doing them a disservice if I was not as honest and professional as possible.
A flawed game can be fun to play, just like a flawed movie can be fun to watch, given the right expectations. When you have these flaws though, you divide your audience into those who enjoy the other parts of the game enough to enjoy it, and those who don't.
I've enjoyed Brutal Legend, Mirror's Edge, and Mass Effect a lot as games with flaws I could easily look past because of either the story, or new mechanics that I really liked. There are many other games that have been at the same level of polish that I just haven't liked at all - and if I were a reviewer I'd say my opinion and why. Saying a game is "shitty" is a slang form of saying you didn't like it, and that's a statement that's different with each person who might say it.
When I made my game I knew I wasn't going to please everyone, and I didn't try to. I just made a game that was the most fun to me and my friends and put it out there. When I see well constructed negative comment I consider any constructive criticism that might be there and think about if I agree or not. I do of course get occasional "it's shit" type comments, but when I hear a genuine positive comment it just overshadows the noise of those.
I've enjoyed Brutal Legend, Mirror's Edge, and Mass Effect a lot as games with flaws I could easily look past because of either the story, or new mechanics that I really liked. There are many other games that have been at the same level of polish that I just haven't liked at all - and if I were a reviewer I'd say my opinion and why. Saying a game is "shitty" is a slang form of saying you didn't like it, and that's a statement that's different with each person who might say it.
When I made my game I knew I wasn't going to please everyone, and I didn't try to. I just made a game that was the most fun to me and my friends and put it out there. When I see well constructed negative comment I consider any constructive criticism that might be there and think about if I agree or not. I do of course get occasional "it's shit" type comments, but when I hear a genuine positive comment it just overshadows the noise of those.
This is all I really have to say
I love Mirror's Edge and Assassin's Creed, but if Shawn Evans, review writer wants to say their shitty, and can back it up, that's his OPINION.
If Jim Sterling wants to say "X" game sucks, that's his opinion: if Nick wants to say Brutal Legend sucks, and can back it up, that's his opinion.
The only time I have problem with reviews is if they're not complete: like the Prinny review, which seemed like it was written after an hour's worth of play, and should have been given to someone else. I could care less about the score; but the CONTENT just wasn't there in the slightest.
That's not really an issue for Shawn. Content wise, he's excellent.
I love Mirror's Edge and Assassin's Creed, but if Shawn Evans, review writer wants to say their shitty, and can back it up, that's his OPINION.
If Jim Sterling wants to say "X" game sucks, that's his opinion: if Nick wants to say Brutal Legend sucks, and can back it up, that's his opinion.
The only time I have problem with reviews is if they're not complete: like the Prinny review, which seemed like it was written after an hour's worth of play, and should have been given to someone else. I could care less about the score; but the CONTENT just wasn't there in the slightest.
That's not really an issue for Shawn. Content wise, he's excellent.
@Solgrim
I'm actually one of the people who will say Uncharted was a "7, or maybe an 8" experience: I wasn't a huge fan.
Uncharted 2 completely fixed any problems I had with the first 1. Hell, you can even skip the first game and just jump into the multiplayer.
I'm actually one of the people who will say Uncharted was a "7, or maybe an 8" experience: I wasn't a huge fan.
Uncharted 2 completely fixed any problems I had with the first 1. Hell, you can even skip the first game and just jump into the multiplayer.
@SilverDragon1979
Uncharted 2 innovates in myriad ways, but they arent related to gameplay or one particular type of mode. The presentation of the game, the animation, camera work and graphics are truly a generation beyond the current products on the market. Aside from the historic presentation and immersion level, the gameplay is fantastic and offers an epic single player game, a complete set of VS multiplayer modes, and separate set of coop modes - only the rare AAA title offers all this, and only Uncharted 2 wraps it all up in Hollywood level production quality.
Uncharted 2 innovates in myriad ways, but they arent related to gameplay or one particular type of mode. The presentation of the game, the animation, camera work and graphics are truly a generation beyond the current products on the market. Aside from the historic presentation and immersion level, the gameplay is fantastic and offers an epic single player game, a complete set of VS multiplayer modes, and separate set of coop modes - only the rare AAA title offers all this, and only Uncharted 2 wraps it all up in Hollywood level production quality.
