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Community Discussion: Blog by RBinator | The Entitlement of Publishers: Used games sales pt2Destructoid
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About
I think it should be pretty clear that since I'm here, I'm a gamer and I would love to discuss them. Just like everyone else, I have my opinions about the current state of gaming and how I think it's good in one way and bad in another way. Quite frankly, I think the gaming community in general is pretty awful, like with console fanboys, but Destructoid looks to be different. However, don't expect to find me on the forums since I plan on sticking to the main site and the c-blogs. I should note that I'm very opinionated about stuff. I can easily find flaws in just about anything even if others don’t agree with me on them. To an extent, I'm also a perfectionist.

I own the original PS2 model, a Wii, 80GB PS3, Pro model 360, and the original DS and PSP models. Just because I own all of them doesn't mean I value them all equally. I don't own too many games and I rarely buy them. I mostly play games by renting through GameFly since even the really good ones don't keep me playing long enough to justify buying them. I'm not just able to easily replay a game a second time through even if I really enjoyed the first time. I tend to only buy games that I feel will have great replay value, which usually means getting a game on the PC that can be heavily modded.

I’m also rather lonely when it comes to my friend lists on the 360 and PS3. Anyone mind helping out?

The following games I'm looking forward to playing off the top of my head include:

Crackdown 2
Fallout: New Vegas
Metroid: Other M
ModNation Racers
Rage
Super Mario Galaxy 2
The Elder Scrolls V (although not officially confirmed yet)

Game(s) that I’m playing now:

Bioshock (PS3)
Left 4 Dead 2 (360)
Red Faction: Guerrilla (360)

Game(s) that I'm currently waiting for GameFly to ship out...

Nothing right now...

Last updated: 04/26/10
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For the second half of this c-blog, I’ll go more into depth when it comes to the various arguments from people, mostly other gamers, to defend the lengths that publishers will go to try to kill off the used game market.

“A used game sale is a lost sale for the publishers.”
I feel this is an age old argument that applies to other subjects as well that doesn’t hold water very well. This argument assumes that if someone couldn’t buy a game used, then they would have brought it new. Now granted, some people would buy a game new if they couldn’t buy it used. On the other hand, many people would just wait till the price drop, which would be less money for the publisher than if the customer brought the game sooner. Others would rent the game, trade it for another game, or simply not get the game at all. So in other words, publishers may only get some extra sales if buying a game new were the only option. A small difference, but not quite as big as they seem to be hoping for.

I feel that this is a form of entitlement. Publishers tend to act like they deserve every last penny of their games if someone as much as plays them. I have a feeling this might be a pretty big factor in why certain current gen games don’t feature multiplayer on the same console, even if previous games in the series did. They said that some games are too powerful to handle split screen. They expect us to believe that?! How does that kind of downgrade happen for something that’s been common even going back to the beginning of video games? So the almighty PS3 and 360 can’t do something that the Wii can this generation?

It’s like they want to reap Capitalism for all it’s worth, but as soon as Capitalism works against them, they want nothing to do with it. Instead of taking the bad with the good, like customers tend to, they only want to take the good and not deal with the bad. Why do publishers deserve to get a cut of the profiles off the same game disc more than one? As far as I know, other industries have to deal with this as well, but they don’t seem to be up in arms about it unless I wasn’t paying attention. I feel this comes down to quite frankly, whining. Because the system doesn’t always work like how they went it too, they throw a hissy fit at customers that used the system in a way that didn’t totally favor them.


Some have even gone on to say used game sales are worse than piracy. WTF?!

“Developers need the money to keep releasing great games.”
Well, maybe it’ll be a wakeup call to consider what they’re doing when it comes to development. This could mean they’ll have to do more with less, like figuring out how to make great games without putting millions upon millions of dollars into each game. Putting more money into a game doesn’t automatic make it better, especially since a lot of that money is used for graphics. I’m not saying graphics are not important and shouldn’t matter, but less money means they would have to focus more on game play if they want high sales. Not every game a developer makes have to be a huge blockbuster with a development time of three-five years. Square Enix must have spent tons and tons of money on FFXIII, but they managed to release lower budgeted games as well. So not every company has the money or manpower to develop multiple games at once, but the ones complaining about used game sales the most usually are big companies. If $10 or $15 games can prove to be great fun and cost a lot less than full blown retail games, why can’t they do something similar on a larger scale?

“If you can’t buy a game new, you don’t deserve to play it.”
Excuse me?! What right does a customer have to tell another customer what they can do and can’t do with their money? The money from a used game may not go back to the game industry, but it doesn’t mean a customer still isn’t allowed to use other legal means to get it. What, are gamers supposed to be saints that give fully back to every single game they play? If publishers don’t like it, they can always find another business model; instead of acting like they can do no wrong and that anyone who buys a used game is the poison killing the game industry. In fact, they already are working toward other business models that become more of a reality day by day.

“Video games have a shelf life of a few months compared to other products.”
Compared to movies, books, and other media that people keep interested in a lot longer even many years later, video games tend not to do that, likely due to the rapid advancing nature of it. Even that’s not completely truth since there is the whole retro fever going on these days and older games being sold as downloads. On the other hand, how likely are you to find new copies of games from even five years ago, especially GameCube or Xbox games? Really, are you supposed to not just buy them because the developers and publishers won’t profit from them? Are you supposed to wait years and hope for a re-release, something that only a select few games will get?


“Buy our games new and there will be cake.”

“Used games don’t have the same wear and tear issues as other used products.”
People often mention that used video games can work just as fine as new ones. Yes they can, but not always. Just like how used movies are not risk free due to how the disc can skip parts of the movie, used video games are not risk free either, even to the point of failing to read the disc properly, making the game unplayable. Cartridges had it worse back in the days.

“The developers are just being nice to those that support them by giving extra content.”
Oh yeah, the same way that Microsoft is nice to Gold members by offering downloads a week sooner. Oh wait, Silver members just get the downloads a week later. The same way that content already in the game, but costs money for the 108kb download, is a way for customers to support the developers. Not to mention the “choice” to pay for cheat codes that were free a generation ago. I had no idea being nice meant not offering the full game for full price.

Publishers will pass off the download codes that come with the DLC as extra content. Come on now, let’s be realistic, is everything people say 100% truth? Of course not! It’s more like “this always was part of the game, but we blocked it off with a unlock key”. Business, especially when greed is part of the mix, isn’t 100% honestly. So between the time that the game gone gold and reached retail, developers had enough time to put in content worth $10?

The way I see it, publishers have been testing the waters for years, slowly building up to where we are now and where they plan to go. They are slowly getting people to accept spending far more on games or dealing with having less content for full price.


You could do a swordless run till you reached Ganon…

“The content that was taken out and put up as DLC isn’t vital to the game experience.”
Yes, that’s what the publishers want to hear, people being okay with slowly losing bits and pieces of a game that wasn’t brought new. Why not just keep removing content till everything that isn’t completely vital to the core experience costs more? Why not just take out all the side quests in RPGs for those that didn’t buy it new? Brought Call of Duty used? That’ll be $5 to unlock multiplayer. Rented God of War III? $10 for the non-standard weapons. Want that fancy car on the cover of a racing game? Buy it new or hand over $5.

Keep going and you could have a bare base game if you didn’t buy a new copy and end up downloading the rest of it for $30 or $40. People may argue that it won’t get to that level, but even now, would we have been discussing something like this five years ago? Who would have thought back in 2005 that small bits of the core content would be missing for non-new copies? This reminds me when Michael Capps, president of Epic Games, got mad at used game sales and wanted to charge $20 on used copies in order to face the final boss in Gears of War 2. If you seen the final boss, would you want to pay $20 for a “battle” that lasts around that amount in seconds? This could become a reality in Gears of War 3 at the rate things have changed between now and late ’08.

“Don’t like it, don’t buy it.” / “Speak with your wallet.”
I don’t think many people consider that if enough people do just that, than how will the developers make enough money to break even, yet alone make a profit? As proven by the boycotts alone in the previous year, many gamers don’t resist buying something they said they wouldn’t buy. I feel that publishers will keep seeing how much money they can get from people till they had enough. They need us, we don’t need them, since without people buying their products, they’ll go out of business, but we’ll just find other games or means of entertainment.

Often, this is just said as a cop out argument to not actually want to discuss things. All after, it’s much easier just to act like people who don’t like something don’t have a right to talk about it than to actually debate the issue. When that’s all people can say without anything else to backup their words, it’s a pretty good sign that their saying “I don’t like what you’re saying, so stop saying it because I have the right to tell you what you can say and can’t say”. Combined this with “no one cares”, which is often when it’s an opinion someone doesn’t like, clearly does care if they give extra attention to it, and you have one of the many reasons I don’t have that great of viewpoint toward the gaming community in general.

Even simply not buying a game won’t get the message across to many publishers. They’ll find some other kind of excuse if their game(s) don’t sell like they expect them too. They may push even further to get more money out of fewer sales. They could even fall back on developing “safe” games. Should that fail, they could always pled to gamers to buy their games, act like victims, and act like something is wrong with their customers for not buying their games. At the end of the day, they’ll still be greedy to the point of turning heads.



At this rate, I have a feeling that we’ll be looking at another video game crash down the road unless the greed is toned down. In fact, I think there already are examples of core content (and not minor stuff) being put up as downloads. I feel like it’ll be a matter of time where physical copies of new games cease to exist and publishers play entirely on their own terms by going full digital to cut out the middle man and without ever worrying about people re-selling. I would like to see more great games, sure, but I also fear my favorite hobby will become super costly and tear apart the gaming community even further.
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It’s like they want to reap Capitalism for all it’s worth, but as soon as Capitalism works against them, they want nothing to do with it.

Does this honestly surprise anyone anymore? I've yet to encounter a single invisible-hand laissez-faire free-market stalwart who won't accept (if not demand) immediate interference and preferential treatment from outside forces the SECOND his bottom line isn't quite as robust as it was yesterday...and generally, the more loudly insistent they are that the unrestricted free market solves everything, the quicker they are to break down in tears and line up for a handout once things start going downhill. The gaming industry is certainly no exception.

While I can sympathize with some of the publishers' complaints about the way the situation is now and wouldn't mind seeing a handful of adjustments to it, in large part I'm glad to see someone calling them on attempting to turn themselves into completely innocent victims.
Good post and i totally agree with you. I hope that the industry will get its act together and grow up but the gaming industry has always been a strange beast that seems to defy logic. With the debacale that is localistion between the main terratories and also how the games journalism industry (this makes good reading http://insomnia.ac/commentary/the_videogame_news_racket/ Infact Insomnia.ac is a great site for those who are critical about the gaming industry)
And for those who only play the single player content and think EA and other charging for online content wont effect them need to consider all the extra resources the developers will put into the online content as itll make them money. If you think sigle player content is getting smaller for the amount of play time compared to the single player content of old games will see things getting much worse.
Good post, but I still see both sides of the issue. The percentage of people that pirate games is simply getting larger and larger. Why should they pay $60.00 for a game when they can get it free? I can see why devs and publishers attempt to prevent piracy. On the other issues... the market may simply have to accomodate. If a game doesn't sell well... lower the price. When a game has been out for awhile... lower the price. We're actually already seeing this, the market is adjusting.

On the used/rental market of games, again the market adjusts. When people increasingly turn to services like gamefly or buy their games used, then they will lose out on some content. If the lack of content is prohibitive then they won't sell the game to the companies that rent or buy back used games. A middle ground will eventually be reached.

Meh... the market usually finds it's own between the "sense of entitlement" of both the consumer and the producer of the product. Right now we seem to be in the middle of a war - but either devs will go out of business and we'll simply have fewer games and fewer devs (what seems to have happened with the PSP due to piracy) or there will be a technological detente that occurs where both the producer and the consumer are somewhat satisfied.
Way I fight the lot of them - I'll most likely just stick to PC and Wii gaming this gen.

They told us the %50 dollar price tag was for higher developement costs, then they removed content from their games citing that revenue was needed to cover hire development costs, "curb piracy" and discourage the sale of used games.

Really, from what I've seen, so far the only games that don't bullshit on download content and release full games are 2k and Valve. Nintendo doesn't anything on DLC for thier games, so they will not bullshit you on the matter. Mario Galaxy 2, Metroid: Other M, the next Zelda, Fire Emblem or whatever else will be a full, complete game.

And if I buy my PC games through Steam - which I likely would because the system is so nice - then I'll buy new there. Nintendo and Steam are not biting the hand that feeds.

Download keys are so 1999, paying for content that is already on the disc or even being made to jump through hoops to get it for free is just going to make me want to skip your game. Dragon Age, Mass Effect 2 and anything else EA - you've lost me. I don't care about what I'm missing because if I can't get the whole product, I don't feel I'm missing all that much.

I am disgusted with content that gets whored out as a pre-order incentive, too.

You want a solution to used sales? Do the scary thing - go all-digital and never look back at physical media in the next generation of consoles. That's really the only way. Then you only have to worry about piracy.

Fight a war on two fronts and you'll learn the same lesson everyone else has - you lose. And your customers aren't the people you should be picking fights with anyway.

Really, though, I wish gamers had stronger backbones. Publishers pull shit and they just bend over and take it. They'll take it for Call of Duty, they'll take it for Madden, they'll take it for Mass Effect so I don't have much respect for gamers on the matter right.

They believe the lies they're told. They want to believe they're helping the developer when they're really not at all. They're just helping the publisher, but some never seem able to distinguish the two.
@ The Silent Protagonist: I didn't "take it" for Mass Effect 2. The stuff that only came new was ultimately meaningless and absolutely tacked on as a way to try and ensure more new sales. It clearly wasn't an important or even necessary part of the experience. I get where you're all coming from, but so far I personally haven't encountered a game that has held something back from me. I know they exist, and I'm sure we'll see them a lot, but not everything is as bad as it seems. ME2 was totally worth spending 60 dollars on instead of 55, but had I chose to get it used at the time I wouldn't have missed a damn thing except for 15 achievement points and an ultimately meaningless character to use.

@RBinator: I can see where you concerns stem from, but at the same time I can also say that it's their product and they can do whatever the fuck they want. Saying "If you don't like it, don't fucking buy it" is a perfectly reasonable statement. So the people who boycotted MW2 ended up buying it? Who's fault is it that they're all weak willed bitches with no self control? Not mine. So I feel perfectly fine saying that to people all the time. You cannot control what companies do, only influence them with your purchasing habits. If people stop buying games and companies go out of business, then clearly it just wasn't meant to be. Not my problem, and I certainly won't lose any sleep the day Activison, EA, or anybody else goes out of business. Life goes on without them, and like you said, we'll find other games to play and other shit to do.

And if the fallout of it is that more safe games are made and less risks are taken, again, it clearly just wasn't meant to be and isn't going to work. If you're not going to stand by your ideals because you're "scared" your favorite hobby is going to get stale, well, that's just silly. If you really care, you'll back up your thoughts with action and hope others follow suit, and if it all comes crashing down, then so much the better, right? Then maybe things will fix themselves when somebody tries to do things right next time. And if doesn't happen, go watch a movie and chill the fuck out.

You seem like you really care and are really upset with the way publishers treat consumers, but you also seem like you're actually scared of them and will probably let them do whatever they want anyway just because you're afraid of your hobby collapsing from a financial standpoint. Make a choice and stick with it.

Also, it's 2010 and people make great games by themselves in their basement. If this medium is truly an art form, games will never die out. They might not be as popular one day, but they're here to stay. There are simply too many people who care about them.
Good post. Personally, I'm sick of feeling like there's a moral imperative attached to any games that I buy, and I hate seeing "X games is out now. YOU NEED TO SUPPORT IT, YOU'RE KILLING CREATIVITY IN THE INDUSTRY IF YOU DON'T." I get where it's coming from, and I really, truly do want to give money back to the people who make games that I like, especially if it's something under the radar or a little bit off the beaten path...but I'm also poor. In some cases, I don't have the funds to get something until it's been out for a pretty long time, and there's just no way that I can justify spending the money to get it fresh from the factory when it's available for half the price used. I haven't spent sixty dollars on a video game in nearly two years, because I can't. Luckily, I was able to get Bayonetta new for thirty bucks thanks to that K-Mart sale a few weeks ago, but I would have had to buy it used otherwise. It sucks, but them's the brakes.
I don't have a problem paying full price for most games I pick up but I also don't feel guilty in the slightest for buying a game used.

Back in the day of the NES / Genesis there were all sorts of mom and pop used game stores and this issue was never, well an issue. It hasn't really come to be a problem until recently which is I am sure attributed to the behemoth that Gamestop has become.

Now I'm not saying that Gamestop is at fault here but they are the most "known" used game store that I can think of. Either way though I don't think it should matter that much. Some people can afford to buy games new and some cannot, it's as simple as that.

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