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I definitely agree that 80-100 hours is not the hotspot for an RPG. But neither do I think it's necessarily less than 30 hours. For one thing, I'm not sure how you put 70 hours into Persona 3 - I did everything I could in that game (missing a few of the S Links) and didn't achieve that goal. Maybe FES made things different.
Anyways, back to the subject. Deciding a hotspot for these games is very difficult. I think the best solution would be to design RPGs as games that can be finished in 20-30 hours, but can stretch to around 50-60 with optional content. There are some problems with this idea, though.
1) Challenge. By making a game that can be finished in 30 hours, there is no challenge when completionist gamers eventually face the final boss. Recently, Final Fantasy XII met this problem.
2) Development. Developers can't justify making half their game, story and character development be optional. While much of their audience will take the time to see it all, an equal number won't, and then they've almost wasted an investment on them.
Part of what makes RPGs compelling is the myriad of side quests and available plots, the time and investment you get to put in. I find myself more attached to the characters as a result of this investment. What you're asking is in many ways to create the opposite scenario: cater to people like you and alienate fans who want more. Unfortunately we're in a world where they can't cater to either side, and trying to please both just doesn't work either (as illustrated above). Maybe the RPG needs to be split into two genres: short and long.
Anyways, back to the subject. Deciding a hotspot for these games is very difficult. I think the best solution would be to design RPGs as games that can be finished in 20-30 hours, but can stretch to around 50-60 with optional content. There are some problems with this idea, though.
1) Challenge. By making a game that can be finished in 30 hours, there is no challenge when completionist gamers eventually face the final boss. Recently, Final Fantasy XII met this problem.
2) Development. Developers can't justify making half their game, story and character development be optional. While much of their audience will take the time to see it all, an equal number won't, and then they've almost wasted an investment on them.
Part of what makes RPGs compelling is the myriad of side quests and available plots, the time and investment you get to put in. I find myself more attached to the characters as a result of this investment. What you're asking is in many ways to create the opposite scenario: cater to people like you and alienate fans who want more. Unfortunately we're in a world where they can't cater to either side, and trying to please both just doesn't work either (as illustrated above). Maybe the RPG needs to be split into two genres: short and long.
@Thefil
Good points, all. I realize that what I'm asking for is contradictory: I want the sense of compeltion that comes with finishing a good RPG but I don't want to commit myself to endless hours of playtime.
Maybe this is a separate issue, but I think that at some point "challenge" became erroneously synonymous with "hours to complete," where RPGs are concerned. Most console RPGs today offer little real challenge, they just take forever to complete. The DS remake of FF III reminded me, in brutal fashion, of just how tough old RPGs were.
Good points, all. I realize that what I'm asking for is contradictory: I want the sense of compeltion that comes with finishing a good RPG but I don't want to commit myself to endless hours of playtime.
Maybe this is a separate issue, but I think that at some point "challenge" became erroneously synonymous with "hours to complete," where RPGs are concerned. Most console RPGs today offer little real challenge, they just take forever to complete. The DS remake of FF III reminded me, in brutal fashion, of just how tough old RPGs were.
You aren't old. I feel the same way. As much as I loved Persona 3, I never finished it either. I felt like 80+ hours was more than I was willing to spend on a gaming experience, and this is coming from a person who loves nothing more than to envelop herself in an imaginary universe and play. I agree in your above comment about challenge vs hours to complete. When I played and completed Lost Odyssey, I felt challenged, but I didn't feel daunted, a very important line not to cross. There's a sweet spot when it comes to a great story in a good framework. :)
Holy crap you win for your banner.
On topic though, I know what you mean. I played FF 1 and 3 to death, dragon warrior, and even pokemon counts. But now I just can't seem to do any that come out. Its like a choice has to be made between 'pay attention to loved ones' and 'beat this f*(%ing piece of garbage that I sort of care about'. And anymore RPGs have gotten away from my favorite aspect about them, which was they were as easy as you made them. If you wanted a challenge you could pick 4 white mages and try to beat bosses at the lowest level you could. If you felt like picking the best party and power leveling, you could do that too. With 80+ hours of content, power leveling just seems like a waste of time.
On topic though, I know what you mean. I played FF 1 and 3 to death, dragon warrior, and even pokemon counts. But now I just can't seem to do any that come out. Its like a choice has to be made between 'pay attention to loved ones' and 'beat this f*(%ing piece of garbage that I sort of care about'. And anymore RPGs have gotten away from my favorite aspect about them, which was they were as easy as you made them. If you wanted a challenge you could pick 4 white mages and try to beat bosses at the lowest level you could. If you felt like picking the best party and power leveling, you could do that too. With 80+ hours of content, power leveling just seems like a waste of time.
Modern games are starting to fall into that spot of quanity over Quality. If it looks pretty and there's lots of it it can't be bad, right? This philosophy is dreadfully over used by many game developers. I was always partial to hybrids. RPG/ADV titles. Final Fantasy Adventure for Gameboy and The Quest for Glory Series were successful at this concept. You want to settle into an enviorment and have a rich story with life like characters, and extraneous things for your character to do just for pleasure and leisure time. What you don't want is endless levels of hacking and slashing for the sake of it. Hopefully, their will be a swing back to richer adventures and less quests for extending game play hours past that 100 hr barrier
