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Email: PheonixGamma@gmail.com
SteamID: pheonixgamma
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I'm PG, I'm 22 years old, a Boston-area gamer. I like video games. These are some of my favorites (and if you dislike them, you're wrong):

Zelda A Link to the Past
Zelda Majora's Mask
Team Fortress 2
Persona 3
Super Mario World
Super Mario Bros 3
Stepmania
Chrono Trigger

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Gamers should really stop trying to make games Art
Phoenix Gamma | 9:26 AM on 08.08.2010 31 comments


Before you write off the rest of this post, let me just state that I do in fact believe that games are a valid form of art, and that sometimes the medium's merits are sold short. With that said, hopefully you've lowered your pitchfork down long enough to hear me out. I'd like to break this up into two parts, so let's get right into this:

Games for the Sake of Art

My problem with games trying to be art is that by trying to be art, they tend to lose perspective. To put it another way; a painter doesn't sit down and say "I'm going to make ART!" He says "I'm going to make a painting" or "I'm going to make a color study of this still life" or "I'm going to capture the figure of this model in front of me". In that respect, games should really be developed the same way, and not "I'm going to make a game now, EXCEPT ART!!!!" I feel like a lot of art games suffer from this. A lot of them, quite frankly, aren't very fun. And in trying to become "THE DEEPEST VIDEO GAME EVER ACTUALLY", they forget to make the game enjoyable.

In my personal opinion (and really, that's all this blog post is anyways), enjoyment is a necessary ingredient to a gaming experience. I remember a Rev Rant awhile back where Anthony was upset because he wanted games to be more than "fun", and while I agree to some extent, I think a good game should be inherently enjoyable. I shouldn't have to endure something (like a bad engine or awful pacing) to enjoy it. I mean, the word "game" is right there.

[img]https://bridgingovertheocean.wikispaces.com/file/view/shadow-of-the-colossus-20050927025333795.jpg/33234187/shadow-of-the-colossus-20050927025333795.jpg[/img]

I also don't think it's impossible for a game to be fun yet still have some deeper element to it; that is to say, I think "entertainment" can still posses strong merit as "Art". Shadow of the Colossus was an exhilarating game, and I loved it. I remember just enjoying going around the landscape, and being in awe at each boss, wondering how I could possibly take it down. I also remember being really angry at the ending, which wasn't as happy as I thought, and it got me thinking back to the game's opening segment, to the different scenes sprinkled between fights, and even thinking about what kind of backstory these characters might have, or what kind of people they might be. That game had a pretty big impact on me, more so than any "Art Game", yet it was still very fun in its own right.

I don't think games should be prevented from telling stories or sharing experiences that run deeper than pure entertainment, either. Hell, I encourage it. But there's a way to share these stories and experiences and ideas in an accessible way. For some reason, the movie Pleasantville comes to mind; it's a pretty fun movie, but there's a message behind it, and the way it pulls you in feels very natural; what starts as "oh these kids are going around this Leave it to Beaver Town telling people about sex and stuff and making everything colored" slowly gains more meaning, and I think it's really hard for almost anyone to not get invested in those characters by the end.

[img]http://www.goodnewsshutup.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/Mimmy.jpg[img]

Alternatively, I'm not really a fan of gamers trying to label games as art, because then you start delving into this dimension of circlejerking that isn't all too flattering. Metroid Prime is a great game, but it's not The Citzen Kane of Games, and if it were, it's not at all for the reasons that goon from IGN listed. Then you have people who like to look at games and over-analyze them. I respect the Dtoid staff and their efforts to find further enjoyment from the narrative in No More Heroes 2, but the analysis articles felt like I was watching a friend try to find Jesus in a piece of toast. I think a lot of people feel that, for something to be "Art", it has to be "deep", but that's not really the case. I think NMH2 has artistic merit, and it doesn't need an overdrawn analysis of a little girl in a bathing suit wielding giant mech fists to possess those merits. If you do want to explore the deeper meaning behind the godawful overworld of NMH1, that's entirely up to you, but if the game's "art", it's not art because you think it was an intentional jab at open world games. Don't feel like you need to prove it's merits; that's the developer's job.

The Art and Game Communities Mix Like Oil and Water

Being an art student was fun. I got to wake up late, make cool pictures, and tell girls I'm an artist, which totally gets you laid. (Well, no. Not really.) It was also very frustrating, because the art community kinda...sucks. Some days, I thought "hey, the art world isn't as snobby as most people say!" Other days, I felt like it was worse. A lot of times, this was dependent on the professor(s) I was talking to, but other times even my peers would astound me. And the while I just said that the art community "sucks", it's not a 100% awful, snobbish mess. Maybe 50%. All I know is that Milo built a fucking wall on Work of Art last week, and the judges thought it was just brilliant. Personally speaking, I don't want THEM anywhere near video games.


(FUCK THIS GUY)

Of course, the gaming community is pretty awful itself. Sites like Destructoid and events like PAX are always reminders of the good of our community, though even DToid has its occasional share of comments that aren't exactly examples of our best and brightest. I remember when GameTrailers gave Kirby's Epic Yarn the best graphics award at this year's E3, and boy, people were not very happy about that. (Which is a shame, because GT made a pretty good case for it.)

I'd like to think that the best of both communities could come together and genuinely enjoy talking to one another, but for every civil conversation between both groups, you're going to have people like Roger Ebert telling gamers to fuck off, and gamers telling Ebert to chug a dick.

Conclusion

I'm not trying to say games shouldn't be art, or that games will never be accepted as art, or discourage people, because games ARE art, and have artistic values, even if a large portion of the population have written it off. But I think that trying to force games and game culture into one direction or another just for mainstream acceptance might not be the best solution to "legitimizing" video games as a medium. It's my belief that, eventually, gaming will grow steadily with our culture as the years go on, and find a place for themselves as a "serious" medium in society. One game isn't going to change everyone's minds overnight, and we're not going to wake up one morning, pick up the paper, and read "EXTRA EXTRA GAMES ARE ART NOW ACTUALLY!!!" It's going to happen slowly, naturally, and all we can do is try to push the medium to be great by its own merits, to explore different ideas, and to encourage developers to keep making the best games that they can, and maybe not worry so much about being the next Citizen Kane.



Well, that was longer than I expected. I think I'll STFUAJPG.



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30 comments | showing # 1 to 30
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Bluth Banana Stand's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/08/2010 12:59
Bluth Banana Stand
I wonder after reading this, how many factors are there that make Shadow of the Colossus be considered "art"? Its subtlety? Its conceptual pacing and design? When the stylization is peeled away, it is essentially a bunch of boss battles to rescue a princess. I love it personally but I really wonder why it seems to be the kneejerk go-to art game. Is it artistic because we as gamers want to place artistic themes over the facade of what we play, finding unseen themes, subtext, little interpretations for us to call our own? I'm not against this, on the contrary, I think its a true sign gamers are growing and evolving. How much do we even really want games to be art? (of the atypical accepted mold of what it takes for something to be labeled art) As a fellow art-school grad, I can tell you art (or my experience with it) was more about bullshitting your way through a critique than actual substance. Art survey courses basically made something I love learning about on my own some of the most boring experiences ever. Art or people who tout it seem to want it to be alienating and exclusionary. Almost like they are so above you for being able to "get" it through overcomplicating something that is quite simply, beautiful.
Elsa's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/08/2010 15:26
Elsa
Nice blog!

"Flower"... yeah, that's all I have to say on the whole games/art thing! :)
Los255's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/08/2010 16:07
Los255
Deadly Premonition. That is all. I am 100% serious.
Jonathan Holmes's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/08/2010 16:10
Jonathan Holmes
As for NMH2, I didn't strain myself too hard when writing those posts. I'm pretty sure they were done a few days after I finished the game, and were written up pretty quickly based of immediate impressions of what the game was about. I hope it didn't come off like I was trying too hard (because I wasn't.)

There are plenty of times that people see stuff in places where I see nothing. Jesus in toast is just the start of it. Of course, there are also the people who pretend to see stuff in order to sound smarter or more insightful than they actually are. Art analysis can definitely be an Emperor's New Clothes sort of time.

So yeah, that happens.

<3
Fame Designer's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/08/2010 16:13
Fame Designer
Amen brother!

In fact I think one of the most effective ways you can legitimize games is to make them.
Om Nom On Souls's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/08/2010 16:26
Om Nom On Souls
I think your solution is a good one, and can be applied to a lot of things in life: don't try too hard.
Sean Daisy's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/08/2010 16:59
Sean Daisy
I don't think it should be necessary that a game be "fun", but it is fundamental that they are engaging.

Watching a film like Shutter Island, reading a book like Silence of the Lambs, or playing a game such as Silent Hill 2, am I having fun doing these activities? These are not exactly enjoyable or amusing experiences. They are, however, supremely engaging. In order for a game to be legitimate it must keep my attention. I do not need to have fun in order to do this. As long as I have an impetus to continue. To pursue the nature of the universe I am involved in.

Other than that, I agree. Fapped.
Talía's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/08/2010 17:05
Talía
I totally agree with you. If someone WANTS his game to be art, it will probably suck. Just make a good, fun game.
bodybreak's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/08/2010 17:21
bodybreak
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I9lmvX00TLY&

this is art.

oh, and also NSFW.
bodybreak's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/08/2010 17:24
bodybreak
SPOILERS: the spaghettios being expelled from her vagina are a metaphor for life.
Davoidbot's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/08/2010 17:33
Davoidbot
I agree for the most part; and I really hate the term "art game". That's just as ridiculous as calling a song an "art song".
Jomonoe's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/08/2010 17:56
Jomonoe
I completely agree with you. I feel like games should just be games and if some of them are recognized as pieces of art, then great.

The only game I truly believe to be a piece of art would be Valkyria Chronicles because it both moved me and (surprise!) had excellent gameplay. Not many games out there can have both of those things, imo. Shadow of the Colossus I have not played so I won't comment on it.
Dark Niwa's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/08/2010 18:20
Dark Niwa
Ok i did the comment thing wrong sue me. I've been meaning to join for a while.

now why you may be making some good points.

is a movie art?
is a literature art?

no ones trying to make anything art.
the only time this discussion comes up is when people think art has to be something profound or unusual, or defined simply as art.
what you chose to wear everyday is art.
games are art whether it be tetris okami, or the ever so overused shadow of the collosus," which is kinda over shadowed by okami"

art is defined as
"the products of human creativity"

i'll leave my thoughts at that.

any person who attempts to attempt to make their game seem more profound or more 'artlike" is simply ignorant, and this discussion is as tired as the hardcore vs casuals fight.
Nihil's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/08/2010 18:31
Nihil
The creators of Onechanbara would like to have a talk with you.
Dark Niwa's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/08/2010 18:40
Dark Niwa
technically that game is art too.
look at photography, some is raunchy and some is just distasteful, but regardless of anyone's feelings even games like dead or alive paradise are art.
Agent9's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/08/2010 19:03
Agent9
i do agree. sometimes games put too much depth or graphical power into a game that then couses it to be bad. no matter how deep your game is or how fancy it is if its mechanics are poor than the player just drowned in the depth of your game. games need to be original and from the heart. thats the best way to get your message across. trying to make "ART" will 9 out of 10 times fail.
Nihil's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/08/2010 19:05
Nihil
Technically?
Handy's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/08/2010 19:10
Handy
This is probably the best games and art post I’ve ever read, thought that may be because I’ve been thinking the exact same way.

It’s a shame, I think some people are going to ruin games like The Last Guardian for themselves because they’ll be too busy over-focusing on reasons to prove “this is art” to actually enjoy it for what it is. I don’t mean this as a dig to the guys who did that NMH2 post (I actually quite enjoyed that) but sometimes when Suda51 makes a dick joke, it’s just a dick joke.
Occams electric toothbrush's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/08/2010 20:03
Occams electric toothbrush
I hate Miles too.
Dark Niwa's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/08/2010 20:14
Dark Niwa
@nihil
technically
meaning
following the most basic and generic definitions of what we're talking about, that game is a work of art.

im hard pressed to think of a game i played that tried to hard to be some profound work of art.
Nihil's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/08/2010 20:46
Nihil
"Art" has a shitload of definitions. It's only on that basis that it could qualify as. It's also on that basis that you could call a hobo shaping his own feces into the form of a duck "art".
Phoenix Gamma's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/08/2010 20:51
Phoenix Gamma
Aw Holmes I didn't mean to take a dig at you. I knew I'd feel bad for that :\

@bodybreak: yea, one thing I learned from school is that goddamn anything can be labeled as art.

@Davoidbot: Ha! I'm totally inserting "art" in front of everything now.

@nihil and Los255: I haven't played either of those games (I've heard bad things), so I'm not really familiar with them.
Nihil's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/08/2010 21:13
Nihil
There are games that one should express caution in recommending. Those are two of 'em, but for different reasons. One is so bad that it's good (Deadly Premonition), the other is so bad that it's terrible. There are people out there who find enjoyment in both, though.

As for how they play in the whole What Is Art discussion, I'm too tired to go into a tangent about it. It's only in the interest of "expanding your horizons" and morbid curiosity that I'd recommend playing both.
CelicaCrazed's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/08/2010 21:21
CelicaCrazed
*stands up and applauds*

You presented a point I entirely agree with. Great write up.
Pseudo's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/09/2010 09:57
Pseudo
I agree with CaptainBus's point on "engaging" rather than "fun." Horror games really aren't that fun, at least in my book. For example, look at Condemned: literally half the time you are smashing guys in the face with blunt objects and the other half you're running away from guys with shotguns and revolvers. It really wasn't all that fun, but it was certainly a cohesive experience. I've always felt that cohesion of a certain idea seems to be what all great games have in common. When the gameplay and story work together to produce this idea or experience, a game becomes truly great. Examples: Shadow of the Colossus, Persona 3 and 4, Ico, Okami, Limbo, Braid, Doom, etc.
Phoenix Gamma's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/09/2010 13:49
Phoenix Gamma
Persona 4's story had a 2 hour introduction. I'm still butthurt about that >:|
Pseudo's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/09/2010 21:22
Pseudo
How long has it been since you've played FES? I'm 100%ing it right now, and it was at least an hour, maybe an hour and a half before I got to any real battles/first true social link interaction. I played Persona 4 first, and I think its introduction is one of the best in video game history. It does a hell of a good job with exposition, drawing you in, introducing characters, etc. I think the fact that it's what got me into the SMT series to begin with to be a testament to this.

This is just my opinion, of course.
pedrovay2003's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/11/2010 13:19
pedrovay2003
I agree 100%.

And yeah, Persona 4's story was a bit too drawn out. And I couldn't even GET through Suikoden 5 because of the long intro and slow pacing.
Ravana's Avatar - Comment posted on 11/29/2010 18:33
Ravana
Art adopts the subject matter and makes it its own in time. It seems backwards when creative parties design their games with an artistic label in mind, instead of just making the game in mind and letting the natural course of conversion from entertainment to art form take place. It seems some expect videogames, a relatively new technology and expressionistic medium, to get plucked up before its necessary time of refinement and acceptance.
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