Recently I covered Mini-MegaCon with the side intention of bringing to attention the practice of comic book artists “copying” other artwork. I had plans to interview Greg Land, have a round table discussion with other artists, and I bailed out. I seen Land at his table, and he seemed like a sad guy and couldn’t bring myself to insult him while he is with his daughters (did he bring his kids on purpose). However my feelings on this subject no longer required an interview by him directly. Now first, I hope you notice I threw the term “copying” in quote marks a few sentences ago because there is a little blurriness when interpreting what qualifies as copying?
Homages. Paying tribute is something that happens in comics quite often. Right off the top of my head I can remember Spider-Man #1, and how many others have paid homage to it in the years.
Then there is the other side of what “copying” can mean, and why you have to stop buying into it. Some, if not all artists, reference other work to help finish a piece. Many artists, even well known greats like Alex Ross, take pictures of a person or even themselves to make sure their drawing is proportioned and exactly the look they were going for. Referencing in itself is not a bad thing at all.
Some artists seem to have taken this “copying” to a whole new level by literally copying other art and doing a re-skin on the costume to make it theirs. Now taking other peoples art is commonplace in other forms of entertainment; music is a great example. Sometimes a DJ samples another song, in electronic or rap music. This is something people have problems with. Then there are artists like DJ Shadow who mixes tracks to the point where they are brand new tracks, I don’t believe copying applies to this. Covering a song is of course a homage.
For a better analogy, comedians are not able to copyright their jokes, so thus people like Carlos Mencia are able to make a career by stealing other comedian’s material. I think we all can agree this is wrong and shouldn’t be supported. I believe the problem with artists copying other peoples work, no matter the medium, is a lack of awareness. While there are geeks like myself who do research on things we like and find this information, we the minority.
I end up being forced to ’separate the art from the artist’. Knowing that money is going to an artist’s pocket that I don’t support becomes necessary.
A very relevant example is the Xbox LIVE Arcade game, Shadow Complex. As it turns out, the game is based in a world created by Orson Scott Card, a homophobe who engages in public speaking events to preach his views of what marriage should be. In protest of this man, gamers are boycotting the game; which I agree with, despite the fact that the team who worked on the game may not share Card’s views. But in the eyes of many, knowing that a percentage of their money could go to support Card is enough for them to not put down the 1,200 MSPoints ($15) for the game.”
Now back to the meat of this issue, comic book artists copying works. First, there is a fair amount of photo reference, which I admit is okay:
Now it gets slightly weird when the artist copies their own work:
Finally, this is where I draw the line, copying another comic book artists work, clearly not in a paying homage way:
Scott Mcdaniel | Greg Land
Greg Land | Travis Charest
Jim Lee | Greg Land
So how does this happen? Surely Joe Quesada, Marvel’s Editor-in-Chief, would not let such things continue, right? Well, his reply to the copying of works by others leaves you to believe that he is all about business. Quesada makes sure to point out that Greg Land “bailed us out from some very bad deadline crunches” (proven also by this video I took of Greg Land at Mini-MegaCon below the Quesada quote). Then goes off on a weird side tirade attempting to demean people who do not approve of this copying of work because of his kids:
“I want you to close your eyes after reading this and imagine this possible scenario. Lets say you got what you wanted and through your efforts such a stir occurred through fandom and every publisher that Greg Land was no longer working in comics and couldn’t do what he loved to do; what he was meant to do to support his family. Would you feel better? Could you sleep at night? If the answer to both of these questions is yes, then I guess there’s nothing more than I can say on the subject outside of keep doing what you’re doing.”
Comic book artist Brandon Peterson was questioned by my cousin on this very subject. He was candid and spoke against the practice. He admits that references is sometimes necessary for you to get your own take on a subject accurately, but it is frowned upon among other artist.
There you have it. While I feel that referencing a photo as inspiration or as a homage is acceptable, I also support the idea to stop buying comics in which artists who participate in heavy copying are involved. I know it sucks when you are in the middle of a story arch and the next few issues are drawn by one of these hacks, but be strong and do not buy those issues. I know it’s a clichéd saying, but “speak with your wallet”.
I know there are many who know the usual names of these copying artists (Greg Land, David Mack, Rob Liefeld), but if you are just finding out about this practice in comic books, check out these sites for great information and conversation about this very topic: the official Marvel forums, 606 Studios, Digital Webbing, NeoGAF, the very awesome JIM SMASH !!! blog, and Newsarama
Greg Land is especially famous for this, to the point where it almost becomes comical. Greg Horn is another artist who does the same thing, although he usually traces from Playboy/Maxim photoshoots.
Though I didn't specifically mention Rob Liefeld, who I definitely recognize as one of the firsts that I found out who did it... I know him more so as a shitty artist overall, more than just copying. ... I find him more known for his use of a million pouches and lack of knowledge on how to draw feet.
Here is a drinking game, count the amount of pouches in this picture:
Agreed, Juggernaut. Speedlines should be reserved for occasions when someone's gonna get the shit beat out of them. When the team is just posing there should be one of those orange zig-zaggy backgrounds that looks like a 7-year-old tried to draw an explosion.
The funniest thing about Land's work is that, despite copying everything from reference, he still can't make people look natural. Every face is a series of !!!EMOTION!!! to the point that it's painful to look at.
I personally don't have a problem with drawing from reference. I do it sometimes myself. I do have a problem of copying another artist's work, such as what Liefeld is notorious for, and such as showcased in the Nightwing / Spider-Man panels you posted. Really though, Marvel's business practices are the problem here, Land is just a symptom.
Marvel has a big problem with their artists. Either you have A)terrible artists, B)hack artists, or C)Good artists who get put under the gun and/or screwed and have their quality slip (Steve McNiven, Civil War).
Anyway. Being an illustrator myself, and I long time comic fan, I can tell you with 100% assurance, that this is old hat.
People have copied peoples work forever, used references forever, traced forever...
Seriously, go back and look at Jack Kirby's art, and tell me he never copied the same pose over and over and over again.
One of the few artists that have never copied work is bill sienkiewicz, because his stuff is too hard to copy... although i can guarantee he's used references.
I think there is a huge difference between references and copying. The best example of Greg Land is doing it to the point where it is hard to take any of his work seriously.
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Greg Land is especially famous for this, to the point where it almost becomes comical. Greg Horn is another artist who does the same thing, although he usually traces from Playboy/Maxim photoshoots.
Wow, I never knew about this. This was a great read and an eye-opening blog. I'm gonna spread this to my comic-reading buddies.
Though I didn't specifically mention Rob Liefeld, who I definitely recognize as one of the firsts that I found out who did it... I know him more so as a shitty artist overall, more than just copying. ... I find him more known for his use of a million pouches and lack of knowledge on how to draw feet.
Here is a drinking game, count the amount of pouches in this picture:
Inkers...know thats who should be stopped!
I bet Ben Templesmith doesn't have this problem with his artwork!
Agreed, Juggernaut. Speedlines should be reserved for occasions when someone's gonna get the shit beat out of them. When the team is just posing there should be one of those orange zig-zaggy backgrounds that looks like a 7-year-old tried to draw an explosion.
The funniest thing about Land's work is that, despite copying everything from reference, he still can't make people look natural. Every face is a series of !!!EMOTION!!! to the point that it's painful to look at.
I personally don't have a problem with drawing from reference. I do it sometimes myself. I do have a problem of copying another artist's work, such as what Liefeld is notorious for, and such as showcased in the Nightwing / Spider-Man panels you posted. Really though, Marvel's business practices are the problem here, Land is just a symptom.
Marvel has a big problem with their artists. Either you have A)terrible artists, B)hack artists, or C)Good artists who get put under the gun and/or screwed and have their quality slip (Steve McNiven, Civil War).
good artists copy, great artists steal.
Anyway. Being an illustrator myself, and I long time comic fan, I can tell you with 100% assurance, that this is old hat.
People have copied peoples work forever, used references forever, traced forever...
Seriously, go back and look at Jack Kirby's art, and tell me he never copied the same pose over and over and over again.
One of the few artists that have never copied work is bill sienkiewicz, because his stuff is too hard to copy... although i can guarantee he's used references.
I think there is a huge difference between references and copying. The best example of Greg Land is doing it to the point where it is hard to take any of his work seriously.
PacoDG, I counted 48 pouches before my brain began to melt.