COMMUNITY RESPONSE
Let me start of by saying while I don't think Luc's conduct in the comments of the
Eternity's Child review was acceptable, I was very disappointed by the way the D-toid members acted in response. Let us all remember this was a very low budget, indie developed game, selling at a very small price point. There was no need to treat Luc the way he was treated. He disagreed with the reviewers and was very emotional when he did so, all of you would too if it was your baby.
While there is plenty of flaming and fanboy warring on D-toid, there are very few personal attacks, and that is why I love this place. I'm tired of the childishness that constantly fills other gaming site's comments (lookin at you Kotaku).
What I saw in the comments was almost on the level of most of the Xbox Live crowd. The "Fuck Off Luc's" that spewed out made me feel ashamed to be a active member of this site. Luc never cursed or disrespected the reviews, he just didn't agree with them. Plenty of our members have called D-toid reviewers unprofessional (and worse) over reviews scores, and didn't design the game, they just played it.
You would think some members had placed large bets against EC or co-authored the reviews the way they reacted in the comments. It's one thing to be proud of yourself for "calling" a crappy game, it another thing entirely to use the comments section or blogs to launch personal attacks on the developer because you feel entitled. I'm wondering if anyone commenting on Luc's reaction has ever developed anything with a small team and had it ripped to shreds in a review? Doubt it.
Luc released a game that he spent a large amount of time on that had a major flaw, within a day of release the flaw was patched and now fully fixed. How many multi-million dollar games have been released with big game breaking flaws? Plenty, lets give Luc a break.
I bought EC tonight after seeing it was patched already on Steam.
The jumping flaw is fully fixed, and in three levels so far I have never missed a jump due to the key not responding.
REVIEWERS
First of all, this game looks and moves much better than any run of the mill flash game, and I felt that was an underhanded comment when one of the best things about the game is the artwork and backgrounds. Lets also not forget that there is some beautiful flash animation out there, lol.
Second, after mainly naming the broken controls as the flaw that ruined the game for both reviewers multiple times...
"Let's talk about how the jump button only responds to your input about a third of the time, leading you to fall to your doom for no good reason. "
"Additionally, the jump button only works a third of the time."
"Roughly 66% of the times you hit the jump button, your character won't do anything."
"The problem is that it's difficult for the wrong reasons, most directly in terms of control."
Anthony and Conrad only put one reference to the patch, put it under a section about the game crashing, and then said it MAY fix the problems. Did Anthony or Conrad even try the patched game? Is it just better for laughs to not put somewhere on the review that the major flaw in the game has been fixed? The patch was released the same day as the review was posted...
Luc took his time and energy to get involved in our community, and I think the D-toid staff could at least return that time and energy to review the game with fixed controls, or at least add some insight into how much the patch fixes. The game I bought today doesn't deserve a 1 by any means, nor does it deserve the abuse that our community is heaping on it.
THE GAME
It's nothing special, but it's a decent side scroller that goes back to the roots and has some challenge to it. If you move while shooting and use the charge shot, you can clear though enemies quickly without shooting all their shots. The controls are working fine now, and it's easy to tell it was meant for mouse/keyboard and Wiimote. For the music and artwork alone, I think it's worth the price. If nothing else, it'll burn a few hours of your time.
You could spend $4.99 in a lot worse ways then supporting a developer who's just getting started...
Internet drama, a worthwhile cause!
Until there is a site where everyone knows each other personally, the internet will never be nice.
hopefully all the fans that enjoyed EC are going to voice up
Thanks Mate :)
Nontheless, Luc's reaction to the review is also understandable. He worked hard for something he cared for, and people aren't liking it. As I said previously, his words were NOT justified but it's simple to understand his irritation.
For those of you who can't relate to his position really need to get off your ass and live a little. You've never been putdown for doing something you worked really hard on? C'mon guys. Frankly, Luc blaming his programmer is rather appauling but nontheless, we all just have to chill the fuck out.
Even games that come out and get patched from big companies, do get do-overs for their review. Reviews for the original Star Wars films aren't thrown out when George Lucas decides to change plot elements, or if a separate cut of the film is released.
The game that was released was flawed. The reviewers certainly didn't have to go back and update about the patch, but that shows that they cared enough to note that their review doesn't reflect that. But the thing is, a game shouldn't get to the point of being released, and still contain a major flaw like that.
I work in game software QA (For what ever that's worth in the context of what I'm saying) and if we shipped something like that to one of our QA customers, we failed.
You can put the blame in plenty of places for sure. Luc for not standing up for his work (or whatever kept him from stopping it), the coder shouldn't have put in broken code, the publisher should have realized the quality and stopped it from seeing submission, and STEAM should have called everyone out on it and told them to fix their game.
bad review copy is bad. If QA isn't part of your release process, I frankly think you deserve some level of flack for it.
Regarding the behavior of Destructoid community: it was bound to happen. Its Destructoid. We all have a certain level of respect for each other, but we also call each other on our own shortcomings. No More Reverence. Irreverence is presidente for life. Brutal honesty. That's kinda how this site rolls in general. 'specially, if the community at large (or at vocal minority) feels like it or its hosts are being attacked.
Welcome to the Wasp Nest.
We don't have a publisher or a QA departement
And for that (not having QA), man, I am sorry.
That's a hard knock to take, but I think you should consider adding a QA department for future endeavors.
Its kinda like that episode of the Simpsons where Homer built his dream car. He had no QA stopping him from making weak choices, and it slayed him. QA is way important (which I'm sure no one really has to tell you now)
Like I've said, btw, I'm looking forward to coming to my own opinion of the game on WiiWare.
The bold "Note Patch" says nothing about the fixed jumping controls, and is under a section about crashes. It's a very misleading note, and anyone reading the reviews alone would think that the jumping may still be broken...
It's one thing to be a bad/poor game, another to be broken.
The reason I was so overprotective is that we did this game without a budget, with passion, it's kind of my baby.
We have been quite poor and spent time to make this game happen.
That's why I went overprotective on it, I'm not Lair, I'm not a big dev, we are small indie ones that do this without a budget, I would of been indifferent if we got paid everyday.
And yes we didn't find problems with the jumping but I guess Nick did so as soon as I found that out I made sure to get a patch ready before he reviewed it.
Also so people know, Mr Destructoid got in the game because I was asked in that interview remember? So I said yes, and that's why he was in there.
Pretty much sums up exactly how it made me feel, too. I pretty much lost all respect/hope for the D-toid community once I started reading the comments.
Developers for mods have all kinds of tools designed for testing and content releases. I'm not blaming anybody, but there are ways to fix things like this. Hell, if you're ever working on a new game, i'd test for free. I do it for EA and Ubisoft anyway >.<
The GTAIV/PS3 contest ("who the %#@! is MeepJeep?")
The Early 1-to-10 review backlash
The N'Gai/RE5 curfuffle
The Deca Sports backlash
The era of hard hazing in c-blogs
The Vixen Affair
That's how we roll. Genetically different, baby.
Hmm?
but aside from that one!
The comments were fairly civil to start on that review . . . then Luc responded in protest of the score/review, and called the staff unprofessional.
some members took offense to a slight against their robot masters . . .
sheeptoid/copyagreementoid occurred . . .
cue shitstorm cycle . . .
Everyone looks like jerks now.
Except for Reaprar, who's been no less civil than usual
For what that's worth . . .
Destructoid, now is the time to redeem thyself!
After the review(s) and comment(s) I'm still I dunno. I guess not alot of expectation now... Maybe with the right controls programmed in it could be fun at least for awhile.
I'll see, maybe I'll be surprised after all (thinking positive as best as I can) since I still want to download the demo when it is available off Steam and give it a s***'s and grin's try anyway.
And.. Is it true there is no such thing as bad publicity Or, no press is the only bad press? Or, something? LOL
I personally don't even think I want to see the nonsense that happened. but I thought we weren't going to be doing any "Gamespot" shit around here on reviews? If the game's gettin a 1/10 pre patch, that 1 better be for the fact about 90% of the game isn't playable over a jump glitch....which was fixed asap.
Whenever I set to work on writing something or doing a short film project, I intensely criticize everything I do. Chances are that, even if people I run things by enjoy it, I'm still not totally satisfied with what I do. I can always find some flaw in my work which I can try to fix, and even when it's "done," I can pick out a dozen more that people may or may not notice.
My point is that, as the creator of something, you know it better than anyone. You should know its strengths and weaknesses. If you care so much about this game, why did you release it with so many faults? I know deadlines often play a role, but everything but the still art and music sounds like it's so sloppy.
On the subject of the "fuck off" crowd (myself included): I know that it takes a lot of effort and love to make an indie game. I'm not against insulting that. What I am against is people passing the blame for their failures and insulting others to make themselves feel better, sucking on their thumb while they grab their blanky. If Luc is going to do that, he can seriously go fuck off, because after months of him writing horrible blogs with minuscule updates on his game and loads of whining about publishers and mainstream games, I'm done hearing about him.
Typing the same thing as other people? Nothing more than agreeing and reinforcing their opinion with my own. Dtoid is tight, but we don't gang up on people just for the sake of "protecting" our editors. They're big boys, they knew what they were doing when they wrote up their reviews.
P.S. I have a Mac and therefore cannot try out the demo nor have my own option to not buy the game. The issue I have is not with the crappy game itself, but with Luc's actions and ways in which he promoted and released the game, showing no care for his own creation.
...
I bought the game as soon as I saw the notice on Steam, as I was looking forward to it from what I've seen and read. The price didn't hurt much either to be honest. It was nice to see an indy release that isn't relying on internet hype to "justify" upping the price of the game. :)
After playing it for a bit though I definitely agree with most of the review. The menus, story bits and scene transitions are abrupt and had no flow, and the controls were inexcusably bad for a platformer. It was a broken game that desperately needed some QA before ever being released. I didn't think it was quite as bad as Ant and Con said, as I have played worse games recently and am sure I'll play worse games soon enough, but other than that they pretty much hit the nail on the head.
After a few hours with it I did check Luc's blog to see what he had to say about the release, and was pleased to see that he was aware of the biggest issues and was working diligently on getting a patch out. That doesn't excuse the fact the game shouldn't have been released as it was in the first place, but it was nice to at least see a quick response to an obvious problem. I do plan to give the game another go with the latest patch and maybe even write my own review.
The level that well... things reached in the review comments was deplorable. Luc definitely acted defensive to the point of being immature, even going so far as to pass the buck for the problems. Not a very smart thing to do when you're trying to get people to take you serious as a game developer. That would've been pretty bad by itself, but like I said you had the dtoid trolls just dragging things down even further. Just... sad.
@Luc
Erm... You don't have a QA department? No other way to really say it dude, that's absolutely inexcusable.
There were enough people looking forward to the game that probably would've been willing to playtest it for free, or at most for a free copy at release. I mean, it didn't take much playing to find the glaring flaws.
Stuff to keep in mind for your future work.
I SUPPORT INDEPENDENT GAME DEVELOPERS.
TRIAL AND ERROR MY FRIENDS.
If Luc got offended, he's obviously new to this whole internet thing. I've made shit that people have ripped to shreds, but I'm not afraid of a little criticism. It can easily be interpreted as a learning experience provided you take something constructive out of the criticism.
If all you want to do is backpedal and insist that the "demo" will sway hearts and minds, or blame the game's problems on sloppy, unchecked code, you kinda get what you deserve when you tout how fantastic your game will be to the same lot of several hundred people day in and day out.
Use the mouse wheelie for camera :)
@Scotty G
Well if you look at EC we plan to update it regularly as its mentioned on Steam so it will become better
Sperm donor
I havent played the game so im not disagreeing with your points about the game - im saying that youre acting like your opinions are facts; which means you are acting like an idiot (not saying you ARE an idiot - we all act like one sometimes).
All reviews are opinions; some have more weight (id take a dtoid official review over cblog review if i had to choose) but if you disagree, you disagree; it doesnt make either of you wrong.
Also, you just cant say 'oh but the patch fixes everything! its a good game now, honest!'. You think any other developer gets away with it? I can think of a number of recent games that lost points in reviews for requiring quick patches, and few of them had game-breaking flaws like EC apparently did. If the patched game is actually good, this review will not keep it down. If anything the publicity will help its success. In either case, these are good lessons for Luc (or anyone) to learn.
On that note, Luc's behaviour hs been pretty bad (although amusing, and somewhat understandable) BUT he can redeem himself. All he has to do is learn the lessons he needs to from this (regarding game design, managing a team, Q&A, creating hype, and dealing with criticism) and he'll be much better off for it. Heck, when i start making games or mods or whatever i get round to doing, i hope people are this critical.
other websites right now are all questioning why the reviewers went so crazy on it
it seems like it was personal
and also the whole community saying Fuck kind of hurt me but it showed how some people really are, you just don't change like that, so it showed who were the 2 faced ones that follow like Sheep
So I'm happy to see that Dtoid is full of also intelligent people and not just ones that spend a living being mean just to feel better about themselves
I already explained that I was ASKED to put him in
big difference my little no life friend
In other news, the sky is blue, water is wet and bullets can kill.
More info at the 11 0 clock news.
Seriously, the community in this place has been atrocious for months.