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Seems to me that Sony knows it's effed and is panicking. I really don't see them winning this in court though.
If you really don't see them winning this in court, you REALLY haven't been paying attention to the past 30 years of court cases in this regard. The iPhone Jailbreaking verdict was a remarkable case just because it broke the trend in court cases like this but in that regard, defendants proved that Jailbreaking added functionality and value to the said device by disabling Apple's active campaign against competing software (ie: Apple does it best or the better app doesn't get passed).
Meanwhile, the first thing hackers did with this was steal a game. Or put the way as expressed in the court documents...
"Even the FAIL0VERFLOW Defendants, when interviewed, admitted that they expect Mr. Hotzs conduct to make piracy easier without accomplishing
anything intrinsically useful. Id. at Ά28, Exh. AA.5" -pg17
And yeah, Sony is fucked on this. Which is a great thing for all the gamers who like games and saw how healthy this shit made PC gaming.
Meanwhile, the first thing hackers did with this was steal a game. Or put the way as expressed in the court documents...
"Even the FAIL0VERFLOW Defendants, when interviewed, admitted that they expect Mr. Hotzs conduct to make piracy easier without accomplishing
anything intrinsically useful. Id. at Ά28, Exh. AA.5" -pg17
And yeah, Sony is fucked on this. Which is a great thing for all the gamers who like games and saw how healthy this shit made PC gaming.
@DimmuJed
I agree in one aspect, "jailbreaking" and hacking "your own" hardware after the whole Apple case is legal.
However, using Sony's private root key to illegally sign code without a license and without Sony's consent appears to not be so legal.
Only time will tell though as I'm no legal expert.
I agree in one aspect, "jailbreaking" and hacking "your own" hardware after the whole Apple case is legal.
However, using Sony's private root key to illegally sign code without a license and without Sony's consent appears to not be so legal.
Only time will tell though as I'm no legal expert.
From what I can tell their actual key was never posted in it's true form. Also, none of the hacking by Geohot has added piracy features at all, but other hackers using the exploit have.
Sony didn't sue till now, why? Because now they really are fucked, because w/o a hardware revision there is nothing they can do. Maybe ban people from their precious PSN network, but who cares?
Also, do you see Microsoft doing this? The Xbox 360 has been hacked for quite some time, and people play burnt games on it all the time, even can installed arcade games you haven't paid for.
I think Sony is being a bit drastic, and just worrying that the PS3 will be the next PSP where no one wants to develop for it, but let's be honest, the PSP has never been that great of a system to begin with, and it was hacked upon release almost. It took hackers FIVE YEARS for the PS3.
Sony are just salty over the PSP, and think they can get some kind of revenge by doing this over the PS3. Get over it Sony, you lost, your keys are public, and once that happens there is no going back. Sue everyone, and anyone, as if you need money. If you would have listened to GeoHot a long time ago and hired him this wouldn't have happened, though in reality, GeoHot just put together a hack that another team had release, but of course it's the hacker god GeoHot that everyone worships and makes headlines, which is almost ironic in a sense.
In the long run, GeoHot only enabled you to install homebrew emulators...of nintendo / sega consoles....OH NOEZ SON-YAY, GET THE LAW-YERS NOAW!!!!!! The PS3, it only does everything, except get played by me...but it does collect dust like a mother fucker.
Sony didn't sue till now, why? Because now they really are fucked, because w/o a hardware revision there is nothing they can do. Maybe ban people from their precious PSN network, but who cares?
Also, do you see Microsoft doing this? The Xbox 360 has been hacked for quite some time, and people play burnt games on it all the time, even can installed arcade games you haven't paid for.
I think Sony is being a bit drastic, and just worrying that the PS3 will be the next PSP where no one wants to develop for it, but let's be honest, the PSP has never been that great of a system to begin with, and it was hacked upon release almost. It took hackers FIVE YEARS for the PS3.
Sony are just salty over the PSP, and think they can get some kind of revenge by doing this over the PS3. Get over it Sony, you lost, your keys are public, and once that happens there is no going back. Sue everyone, and anyone, as if you need money. If you would have listened to GeoHot a long time ago and hired him this wouldn't have happened, though in reality, GeoHot just put together a hack that another team had release, but of course it's the hacker god GeoHot that everyone worships and makes headlines, which is almost ironic in a sense.
In the long run, GeoHot only enabled you to install homebrew emulators...of nintendo / sega consoles....OH NOEZ SON-YAY, GET THE LAW-YERS NOAW!!!!!! The PS3, it only does everything, except get played by me...but it does collect dust like a mother fucker.
@DimmuJed
The difference between the Jtagged Xboxes, and the PS3 hack are quite significant.
The xbox has it's hardware changed, you physically own the hardware, after words the hard drive is open to pretty much anything you throw at it. The PsP falls in this category as well with the magic batteries.
In the apple case Geohot wrote a way around Apple's software, not actually using any "leased" (as bigger companies call it) software of Apple itself. The reason why they won this case was simply because they proved it made the product better, and would help it's sales. You should read the court notes, it;s actually quite different.
In the case of the PS3 what they are doing is essentially copyright infringement. Just like if you were to make illegal copies of a game, they are making illegal copies of Son'y software. They are not bypassing the software, or doing any hardware modifications. They are directly taking a program written by sony and using it to sign software. Had they written a key themselves this would not be a problem.
You would really benefit from reading Overfl0w's twitter. Unlike Geohot and the others, he really hasn't been sugar coating what he's done this time actually does really walk, and may of even crossed the line of legality. He's even been posting how Sony could possibly fix the hack. If you just go by word of mouth around Destructoid (which it seems your very uninformed on how the process of these hacks are actually done) then you'd think his hack is impossible to fix, and the exact same as the iPhone's in how it's done, and the legalities of it.
It's not.
Sony is throwing everything they can at Geohot and the other's hoping something will stick, and it will. The case of Geohot winning a court case against Apple for software hacking is the only case in years I can think of that someone doing something like this has gotten lucky and won. Sony has already thrown a lot more lawsuits at them including....
18 U.S.C. § 1030(a)(2)(C) Confidential Information On Computer
18 U.S.C. § 1030(a)(4) Intent To Defraud And Obtain Value
18 U.S.C. § 1030(a)(5)(A) Knowing Transmission of Code
18 U.S.C. § 1030(a)(5)(B) and (C) Intentional and Reckless Damage And Loss
18 U.S.C. § 1030(a)(6)(A) Trafficking in Password
18 U.S.C. § 1030(a)(7)(B) Intent to Extort
I'm not saying your necessarily wrong, just uninformed about how this process was actually done.
The difference between the Jtagged Xboxes, and the PS3 hack are quite significant.
The xbox has it's hardware changed, you physically own the hardware, after words the hard drive is open to pretty much anything you throw at it. The PsP falls in this category as well with the magic batteries.
In the apple case Geohot wrote a way around Apple's software, not actually using any "leased" (as bigger companies call it) software of Apple itself. The reason why they won this case was simply because they proved it made the product better, and would help it's sales. You should read the court notes, it;s actually quite different.
In the case of the PS3 what they are doing is essentially copyright infringement. Just like if you were to make illegal copies of a game, they are making illegal copies of Son'y software. They are not bypassing the software, or doing any hardware modifications. They are directly taking a program written by sony and using it to sign software. Had they written a key themselves this would not be a problem.
You would really benefit from reading Overfl0w's twitter. Unlike Geohot and the others, he really hasn't been sugar coating what he's done this time actually does really walk, and may of even crossed the line of legality. He's even been posting how Sony could possibly fix the hack. If you just go by word of mouth around Destructoid (which it seems your very uninformed on how the process of these hacks are actually done) then you'd think his hack is impossible to fix, and the exact same as the iPhone's in how it's done, and the legalities of it.
It's not.
Sony is throwing everything they can at Geohot and the other's hoping something will stick, and it will. The case of Geohot winning a court case against Apple for software hacking is the only case in years I can think of that someone doing something like this has gotten lucky and won. Sony has already thrown a lot more lawsuits at them including....
18 U.S.C. § 1030(a)(2)(C) Confidential Information On Computer
18 U.S.C. § 1030(a)(4) Intent To Defraud And Obtain Value
18 U.S.C. § 1030(a)(5)(A) Knowing Transmission of Code
18 U.S.C. § 1030(a)(5)(B) and (C) Intentional and Reckless Damage And Loss
18 U.S.C. § 1030(a)(6)(A) Trafficking in Password
18 U.S.C. § 1030(a)(7)(B) Intent to Extort
I'm not saying your necessarily wrong, just uninformed about how this process was actually done.
fapped for the discussion in comments. pretty sure that's the first time I've done that, heh. I found the failoverflow video to be technically fascinating, but I suck at analyzing all this lawyery stuff.
I hope Sony wins and that the defendents see jail time or losses big enough to act as a deterrent. These hackers do absolutely nothing for gamers except drive up the cost of games or even precipitate the launch of a newer console making our old consoles obsolete. The money that Sony is likely spending both on the lawsuit and on attempts to find a way to circumvent the hack is proably mind blowing... this is money that could have been spent on creating new games.
Any gamer that thinks that this hack is cool or good in any way.. they're not a gamer. They're a leech on gamers... that ugly black thing stuck on a gamer's leg sucking all the life out of gaming.
Any gamer that thinks that this hack is cool or good in any way.. they're not a gamer. They're a leech on gamers... that ugly black thing stuck on a gamer's leg sucking all the life out of gaming.
