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I have a different view than a few of my colleagues in regards to PT Winterbottom and Limbo. I don't consider them "Indie" releases. To me, once you break through and are essentially published by Microsoft on the main channel, you're no longer "Indie" (strictly in terms of categorizing a release).
So the term "Indie" aside, is $15 fine for 3-5 hours of gameplay? Sure. If the gameplay is good, it doesn't matter.
Most games are $60, and provide around 10-15 hours of gameplay for one completion. This more than equals out with Limbo's equation. I don't see what the problem is at this current juncture.
If you're talking about Braid I can see valid complaints, given that the XBLA pricing scheme was exclusively $5-$10 since inception, and upon release, Braid was essentially "screwing all of us over" by pushing the $15 price point. By now though, $15 is the newly accepted ceiling, and people shouldn't be crying over spilled milk.
So the term "Indie" aside, is $15 fine for 3-5 hours of gameplay? Sure. If the gameplay is good, it doesn't matter.
Most games are $60, and provide around 10-15 hours of gameplay for one completion. This more than equals out with Limbo's equation. I don't see what the problem is at this current juncture.
If you're talking about Braid I can see valid complaints, given that the XBLA pricing scheme was exclusively $5-$10 since inception, and upon release, Braid was essentially "screwing all of us over" by pushing the $15 price point. By now though, $15 is the newly accepted ceiling, and people shouldn't be crying over spilled milk.
@Magnalon
I can see where you coming from, but when a developer has pored much of their own money into the project, are they then not indie developers even if published by Microsoft on the arcade? I classify an indie developer as a group of people who create the game they want to make. The Behemoth for example, have pored much of their own money into both Alien Hominid and Castle Crashers and have (mostly) published their games single handedly. You really have to admire their dedication to their games :)
But anyway, yes at the time Braid was considered expensive, but again I'm not complaining. Anything that produces real quality in the industry deserves recognition, and Braid is a brilliant game regardless of its price. But thank you for posting something insightful :)
I can see where you coming from, but when a developer has pored much of their own money into the project, are they then not indie developers even if published by Microsoft on the arcade? I classify an indie developer as a group of people who create the game they want to make. The Behemoth for example, have pored much of their own money into both Alien Hominid and Castle Crashers and have (mostly) published their games single handedly. You really have to admire their dedication to their games :)
But anyway, yes at the time Braid was considered expensive, but again I'm not complaining. Anything that produces real quality in the industry deserves recognition, and Braid is a brilliant game regardless of its price. But thank you for posting something insightful :)
I think some are just being cheap, hypocritical bastards. It's a different story when a company is raising the overall cost for the fuck of it, but when you're supporting the independent developers of a quality game, the price should be the last thing you complain about. I agree with Mag that the game itself is no longer "indie" when everybody can find out about it through some type of mainstream exposure, but it's the genuine innovative, something-out-of-nothing spirit/nature of it that should be rewarded.
I believe you are trying to objectively respond to a subjective problem.
Point in case: you didn't like MW2 as much as everyone else and thus didn't play it as much and thus(er) didn't find the price point fair since you basically played five hours of a game you didn't like all that much.
Limbo is a game you tremendously enjoyed and even said it was one of your top twenty of all time. The fact is if people really enjoy something then they just want the ability to play it regardless of price point or anything like that. I really liked Prince of Persia 2008 and thought the $60 dollars was a good price point. A week later it was $40 dollars, and people still complained it was too expensive for eight hours of content.
It's just simply "different strokes for different folks."
However, I believe you're giving indie developers too much credit. Limbo was priced at $15 dollars because they wanted to make money off of it. Probably to make another game and make a career out of something they love to do. In a similar vein, big release games are priced at $60 dollars because they are expensive to make, and have to worry about things like employing over one hundred people at a company.
Price should never dictate the quality or longevity of a particular release. It's simply what makes sense for the market at that time.
Point in case: you didn't like MW2 as much as everyone else and thus didn't play it as much and thus(er) didn't find the price point fair since you basically played five hours of a game you didn't like all that much.
Limbo is a game you tremendously enjoyed and even said it was one of your top twenty of all time. The fact is if people really enjoy something then they just want the ability to play it regardless of price point or anything like that. I really liked Prince of Persia 2008 and thought the $60 dollars was a good price point. A week later it was $40 dollars, and people still complained it was too expensive for eight hours of content.
It's just simply "different strokes for different folks."
However, I believe you're giving indie developers too much credit. Limbo was priced at $15 dollars because they wanted to make money off of it. Probably to make another game and make a career out of something they love to do. In a similar vein, big release games are priced at $60 dollars because they are expensive to make, and have to worry about things like employing over one hundred people at a company.
Price should never dictate the quality or longevity of a particular release. It's simply what makes sense for the market at that time.
I can't say whether your avatar delights me or chills me the bone. I offer this comment to beaten down my impulse to encourage you to sing it sister.
@Dinosaur Pizza
I do agree with you saying that they intend to make a profit, I never explicitly stated they didn't, however I feel more comfortable giving my money to people who create games because they love them, and not to only make a profit.
Always nice when people post thoughtful and insightful comments :)
I do agree with you saying that they intend to make a profit, I never explicitly stated they didn't, however I feel more comfortable giving my money to people who create games because they love them, and not to only make a profit.
Always nice when people post thoughtful and insightful comments :)
I think you stated the problem yourself, games like castle crashers and limbo are somewhat one dimensional, and get stale quick unless you have some kind of nostalgia for them. Modern warfare is by no means immune to this problem, but IW has somehow found the digital version of crack to keep their slobbering fans rushing back for more time after time, map pack after map pack. I of course agree though that indie games are a little under-appreciated, possibly because of an assumed air of pompousness? I dunno
I'm not sure if it's fair to say Castle Crashers is indie, and underrated.
Now if you were talking about Xbox Live Indie games, then it would be an interesting argument.
Now if you were talking about Xbox Live Indie games, then it would be an interesting argument.
@DimmuJed
Really? I think that Castle Crashers more then qualifies as indie. It was developed and published by The Behemoth themselves. I can see from the comments that a lot of people have different idea's on what an indie game is, and that's totally cool.
Xbox XNA games still have a long, long way to go before they are up to the standard of arcade games. 'I Made a Game with Zombies in It' is the closest so far. I think regardless of what particular type of game I was talking about, the argument still stands that self produced games on the Xbox Live Arcade need more recognition for being entirely self produced, rather then people slating the price.
Really? I think that Castle Crashers more then qualifies as indie. It was developed and published by The Behemoth themselves. I can see from the comments that a lot of people have different idea's on what an indie game is, and that's totally cool.
Xbox XNA games still have a long, long way to go before they are up to the standard of arcade games. 'I Made a Game with Zombies in It' is the closest so far. I think regardless of what particular type of game I was talking about, the argument still stands that self produced games on the Xbox Live Arcade need more recognition for being entirely self produced, rather then people slating the price.
I don't like the term indie nor do I think it applies to games like Limbo and Castle Crashers but then again I think a term like indie is a subjective as casual and defining them (for me) is a fruitless venture. Limbo was super neat though and worth every penny. I like to pay for experiences and not X number of hours of game.
Meh, people buy games that they want to play that offer them good value. For some it's COD, for others it's Limbo. It's nice that there is such a variety of games out there!
I am a person who won't pay $15 for Limbo. Part because I skipped over all the features on it pre-release on Dtoid, part because I read Conrad's insane(ly awesome) feature on it, but mostly because it doesn't seem to have much replayability.
Castle Crashers is worth the $15, because it features 26 different characters (ignoring the fact that about 18 of them are clones of each other), a multitude of collectible animals and weaponry, and four player co-op. It also features an INSANELY HARD mode that's accessible once the game is complete, requiring much better tactics and teamwork.
Modern Warfare 2, on the other hand, offers multiplayer deathmatches and whatever else the game supports (Still boycotting after the PC bullshit, never actually played the game), which some people like to play competitively, getting what they feel is their money's worth.
But Limbo...Limbo seems to be a one-time experience. There's nothing wrong with that, but many people (myself included) don't want to pay $15 for a single experience that, while they can continually play through and try to discern different meanings, doesn't offer any gameplay variations on subsequent playthroughs. People (like myself) would feel they got gypped or hate on the game for feeling like the $15 was wasted.
Unlike occams, I prefer to be able to eke out as much playtime for my cash as I can, occasionally diving into "experiences" now and then, but often only if they're inexpensive/on sale. But $15 for a single-playthrough game is too much for me. I never personally complained about it as the game never truly interested me (Also, Conrad's writeup) but I can see why you'd be irritated by complaining.
Just my $0.02.
Castle Crashers is worth the $15, because it features 26 different characters (ignoring the fact that about 18 of them are clones of each other), a multitude of collectible animals and weaponry, and four player co-op. It also features an INSANELY HARD mode that's accessible once the game is complete, requiring much better tactics and teamwork.
Modern Warfare 2, on the other hand, offers multiplayer deathmatches and whatever else the game supports (Still boycotting after the PC bullshit, never actually played the game), which some people like to play competitively, getting what they feel is their money's worth.
But Limbo...Limbo seems to be a one-time experience. There's nothing wrong with that, but many people (myself included) don't want to pay $15 for a single experience that, while they can continually play through and try to discern different meanings, doesn't offer any gameplay variations on subsequent playthroughs. People (like myself) would feel they got gypped or hate on the game for feeling like the $15 was wasted.
Unlike occams, I prefer to be able to eke out as much playtime for my cash as I can, occasionally diving into "experiences" now and then, but often only if they're inexpensive/on sale. But $15 for a single-playthrough game is too much for me. I never personally complained about it as the game never truly interested me (Also, Conrad's writeup) but I can see why you'd be irritated by complaining.
Just my $0.02.
