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I must rant on the topic of game unfairness. I recently dug my NES out of the basement and brought it home. My girlfriend and I have been co-oping our way through the Tengen version of Gauntlet [link]. That game is a bitch. But it's more than that. That game is simply unfair to the player in a way that I haven't seen in my recent game experiences. Some examples:
- There is a 1 in 32 chance that when you start the game, none of your passwords will work when you re-enter them. If your password starts with the letter A, it won't work even though the game provided it to you. (Thanks, Bill Thomas, for being insane enough to crack the password system) - You get to a new level and all of a sudden there's invisible stuff. Invisible stun panels. A few levels later, invisible walls. Then invisible enemies -- it's like the developers were talking about how to make the game more challenging, and some guy said "Why don't we start making everything INVISIBLE!!!"
It's not as fun as it looks. - At least one of the four characters (Warrior) is probably incapable of completing the game. Playing with this character is like playing Super Mario Bros. using only the A button. Perhaps it is possible, but suicide is a more likely outcome. - There are several levels where you just have to give up and reset the game. Move the wrong block into a narrow corridor? Reset. And learn to like it.
Question mark denotes where you begin to wonder why you started playing. - Some of the levels have dozens of exits, but only one will take you to the next level. The others will either take you back to the beginning of the level, or in an even more dickish move, return you to a previous level. Keep in mind that your life continually depletes at the same rate as the game timer, even if you're not getting hit. - You have to get eight separate parts of a password to beat the game; otherwise you die instantly when you enter the final room. The eight password components are hidden in timed rooms that you are likely to bypass if you play the game in a straightforward manner, and once passed, you cannot backtrack to most of these rooms. Reset. If you miss the first room, get all the others, and make it to level 99, you get to start over. Not just reset and try again from the last password save, but start from scratch. - So you did all that, you got to the end, and you beat the underwhelming end boss. Head for the exit and -- you die. First, you have to go past the exit and go get some ugly crystal thing that looks like a glitchy enemy, and which you've probably forgotten about by now. THEN you can exit and win.
No, thank you for playing. I've been trying to think about recent games that are this unabashedly hostile to the player, and I can't come up with any. Do they still make games where not just the enemies, but the developers themselves are against you? I think the reason for this is that Gauntlet was the consummate quarter-sucker back in the halcyon arcade days of yore. Beating Gauntlet in the arcade cost a hell of a lot more than beating, say, Time Crisis. Imagine four players shoveling quarters into this mechanical hellspawn programmed solely to be an unrelenting, rule-changing jerk. The cost of this one collective act of defiance may have exceeded the purchase price of the console version of the game. And that doesn't even include the price of practice. Gauntlet speedrun by someone who makes me question my worth as a human. Today, it can cost just as much to beat the easiest game as it does to beat the most difficult. Not only that, when we buy a game, we expect to be able to finish it. Sure, maybe not on hard mode, but we expect a reasonable shot at seeing the end credits. Completing a game is no longer an act of defiance against a hostile studio of programmer foes bent on our defeat. We just view it in terms of getting our money's worth; any less would be an insult.
Hey. I may be hard, but I'm fair. Do we gamers lose anything by this mindset? Is that why achievements are so popular -- because beating a game is no longer achievement enough? And if a developer made an unfair -- or, to use my favorite term, "cheap" -- game, would people still buy it?
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Screw Gauntlet.
And then you have NMH during the good ending.
*spoilers*
When you fight Harry, he really isn't too difficult but my god does he have hit points. My arms were almost cramping from the sword breaks and other combos over time.
So yeah of recent I haven't played a game that was truly unfair.
tengen and nintendo were not the best of friends. if you own the cartridge in the image above you'll notice its missing:
i'm playing lode runner iv religously, and that game hates your fucking guts. which is why i think i love it.
I haven't played Contra IV, because I am a sissy who fears pain. Is it actually old-school unfair?
He also has no visible health bar.
I got to about a screen and a half from the beginning of the level and freedom, when a stray bullet shot from offscreen, entirely unblockable and unpreventable, struck my retarded charge and he died. I got game over.
I immediately quit the game, and deleted it from my GBA folder.
However I died on the chapter right after the prologue. The first few chapters are supposed to be easier, introducing you to the game first before the difficulty is raised. Intelligent Systems thought they'd skip on that this time and go right for the kick in the teeth right away.
It doesn't help that I always reset if anyone dies in a chapter, cause it sucks when you lose anyone in a FE game. Anyway, the chapter I'm currently on, 3, is pretty insane. The game seems to keep throwing more enemies at you in the chapter, and often times the enemy outnumbers you 2 to 1.
This would be fine if you had characters to counter the enemy with, but at this point in the game you're stuck with a team that is full of people who suck or mages and archers that are too weak to take on more than one enemy at a time.
So yes, they still do make unfair games. If this keeps up in FE, there may soon be a Wii-mote lodged in my tv. :)
I've beaten the game twice on easy and if I were to play it a third time I would actually try to tackle it on normal and see how I do, but without the practice, I would have thrown in the towel (or uh, controller)
Although a pansy, I also get that warm and fuzzy feeling when I kick a cheap game's ass. It seems like getting to the end of a modern game carries all the drama of getting to the end of a movie. Instead of a game that is constantly seeking my approval, asking me if it has pleased me enough, sometimes I want a game (as galagabug put it) that hates me.
I second bhive's sentiments about Contra 4. I put it down after 30 minutes of playing it the first time, on easy, and haven't touched it since. The first level is even more impossible than the original Contra.
ಠ_ಠ
Also, fuck Contra.
I honestly don't think there's been a game that's cheated its dick off as bad as Gauntlet did since its inception. Not counting IWBTG, of course.
I like games that are willing to make aspects of it hard without taking away the overall fun of the game. Getting killed by poor luck from random stray bullets pisses me off, especially if I'm handling some baddies really well up to said point. Getting killed by a boss that has a sequence of patterns that I'm just not quite figuring out yet and happens to not be nearly as tough once you've figured out that weakness/opening, I enjoy that stuff.
I guess for me, I prefer hard RPGs, but fairly normal/easy platformers and action games. With the exception of Contra, which is my god and I have played through too many times to count.
The last game that I accused of cheating was Final Fantasy Tactic on PS1. After a certain point, chocobos became impossible to kill. Godforbid you fight more than one yellow chocobo, you'd better reach for the reset button.
Oh, and here's how the success rate % worked for your characters:
70-99% = 50%
40-69% = 20%
1-39% = less than 1%
@Naia
I'm convinced that game cheats! The computer seems to get all the right pieces and blow your ass out of the sky.
I think there's a difference between a game that is unrepentantly difficult, and a game that tries to make you lose however it can. For example, an unfair game sets you up to lose with rules it doesn't tell you about in the first place, or it defies the previously established game logic for no good reason. That can make it hard, but hard in a cheap way.
I felt a little bit this way about the boss in Uncharted.
NOT REALLY SPOILERS
That was a great game, but you couldn't do most of the stuff to the boss that you could do to every other enemy, even though he was just a regular guy. I wished they had just set it up completely differently, because many previously consistent game rules were discarded for no other reason than prolonging the fight.
I don't think they really make many "unfair" games anymore. However, I think "unfair" is more often a measure of game quality than it is of game difficulty. Hard games test your skill; unfair games test your patience.
That said, do they still make glitchy games? Yes. See SNK v. Capcom: Card Fighters Clash, Nintendo DS (where you couldn't actually beat the game on the second playthrough because of a glitch). Do they still make hard games? Yes. See Contra IV, Nintendo DS; also see N+, Xbox Live Arcade. Despite being hard, games like Contra IV and N+ aren't "unfair" in the sense that Tengen Gauntlet was. They are challenging, but the controls are razor sharp, the objectives are clear, and the hit detection is spot-on. I'll get frustrated with a hard game, but I get furious with unfair games.
Unfair comes from two angles, as far as I'm concerned. Either it's an arcade game made to eat quarters or the game is simply designed bad (without the player in mind) and you die as a result of a flaw that is outside the realms of the game itself (like Dragonslayer on NES or many other BAD nes games).
Oh, no problem. This was an interesting subject and it caught my eye and I thought I'd add my two cents.
As far as the RacismEvil5 thing, yeah, I lost my temper at the end and bitched at you a bit, which was unwarranted. I was going to apologize there, but I doubted anyone was even coming back to the thread at that point. At any rate, sorry for bitching out on you.
That's why I try to stay away from those kind of debates. I tend to go into them with a comedic sense because that's how I approach most things. It doesn't mean I don't understand the whole situation or that I never take anything seriously, I just prefer to make light of things when they get heavy like that but as you can see, sometimes it backfires and the opposite happens. But it's all good. :)