GOOF
I think we're talking about Rhythm games having success in the mainstream, and I think that's passed. Over saturation killed it, to the point where all the people I know who invested in Guitar Hero and Rock Band bought one game and then baulked at the thought of buying a sequel with more plastic instruments.
Wolfey is right, rhythm games don't begin and end with just Guitar Hero/Rock Band, but their time in the Sun has passed.
I think we're talking about Rhythm games having success in the mainstream, and I think that's passed. Over saturation killed it, to the point where all the people I know who invested in Guitar Hero and Rock Band bought one game and then baulked at the thought of buying a sequel with more plastic instruments.
Wolfey is right, rhythm games don't begin and end with just Guitar Hero/Rock Band, but their time in the Sun has passed.
WOLF
I was torn on this one, GoofierBrute make a great case but Wolfy won me over after separating peripheral based games and listing all those games I didn’t even consider when I read the title.
Then again, the only rhythm game I ever played was Bust a Groove on the PS1, so I might not deserve to have an opinion on the subject.
Or anything.
Ever.
I was torn on this one, GoofierBrute make a great case but Wolfy won me over after separating peripheral based games and listing all those games I didn’t even consider when I read the title.
Then again, the only rhythm game I ever played was Bust a Groove on the PS1, so I might not deserve to have an opinion on the subject.
Or anything.
Ever.
GOOF
Though I like Wolfy's argument better there's a few things I cannot ignore. I've been doing some participation in Operation Rainfall, and I keep hearing people echo that the only upcoming Wii game worth noting are Skyward Sword & Kirby. Alot of people are ignoring the upcoming Rhythm Heaven Wii, and I fear that it might be the last entry in the series to make it to North America. I don't know how well the DS version did, but it dropped down to $15, and since Nintendo games almost never go down in price I think that the price adjustment means it wasn't selling as well as expected so they had to do that to push the game. Also Gabriella's Ghostly has been getting so little coverage almost every gaming website I visit is neglecting to post up trailers and screenshots even though they cover niche games, it's actually pretty irritating I had to spend alot of time digging through google just to find a proper trailer.
I played the Wiiware version, and it was actually pretty good for a dancing game, and I imagine the 3DS version will be much better, the game is essentially Elite Beat Agents with monsters. The only other upcoming rhythm game I know about is the upcoming rhythm Final Fantasy game, which looks awesome.
It's gotten to the point where I have to import my music games. My favorite series is Project Diva which I have to import from Japan, and I've been eying the full version of Maestro: Jump in Music for a while which I will at some point import from Europe. The day of quirky music games are numbered they will never completely disappear, but people don't want them anymore. Whenever I look up info on a music game that has original music I see a large part of the comments section bemoaning that the game has no licensed music. I'm part of the small handful of music gamers that want game with original music. The popularity of [i]Guitar Hero
[/i] has made people less willing to try a music games unless they've already listened to the music, I'm not dissing Guitar Hero either I actually really liked the series until Activsion took over.
Quirky music games are still going strong in Japan, and will continue to do so, but most of them will not be localized. For everyone else we're going to get dancing games for a while until people get sick of that, and then the only music games we're going to get are rockband and the occasional XBLA or iOS music game. Music games are one of my favorite genre of videogames, but I can't ignore that the genre has pretty much died in North America, it makes me sad, but I can't ignore the truth.
@Wolfey
Mah always toll me nawt to massdebate wit strangers
Though I like Wolfy's argument better there's a few things I cannot ignore. I've been doing some participation in Operation Rainfall, and I keep hearing people echo that the only upcoming Wii game worth noting are Skyward Sword & Kirby. Alot of people are ignoring the upcoming Rhythm Heaven Wii, and I fear that it might be the last entry in the series to make it to North America. I don't know how well the DS version did, but it dropped down to $15, and since Nintendo games almost never go down in price I think that the price adjustment means it wasn't selling as well as expected so they had to do that to push the game. Also Gabriella's Ghostly has been getting so little coverage almost every gaming website I visit is neglecting to post up trailers and screenshots even though they cover niche games, it's actually pretty irritating I had to spend alot of time digging through google just to find a proper trailer.
I played the Wiiware version, and it was actually pretty good for a dancing game, and I imagine the 3DS version will be much better, the game is essentially Elite Beat Agents with monsters. The only other upcoming rhythm game I know about is the upcoming rhythm Final Fantasy game, which looks awesome.
It's gotten to the point where I have to import my music games. My favorite series is Project Diva which I have to import from Japan, and I've been eying the full version of Maestro: Jump in Music for a while which I will at some point import from Europe. The day of quirky music games are numbered they will never completely disappear, but people don't want them anymore. Whenever I look up info on a music game that has original music I see a large part of the comments section bemoaning that the game has no licensed music. I'm part of the small handful of music gamers that want game with original music. The popularity of [i]Guitar Hero
[/i] has made people less willing to try a music games unless they've already listened to the music, I'm not dissing Guitar Hero either I actually really liked the series until Activsion took over.
Quirky music games are still going strong in Japan, and will continue to do so, but most of them will not be localized. For everyone else we're going to get dancing games for a while until people get sick of that, and then the only music games we're going to get are rockband and the occasional XBLA or iOS music game. Music games are one of my favorite genre of videogames, but I can't ignore that the genre has pretty much died in North America, it makes me sad, but I can't ignore the truth.
@Wolfey
Mah always toll me nawt to massdebate wit strangers
WOLF
Made the best point about separating the physical plastic-controllers from other "true" rhythm games, which I feel are just starting to grow.
Made the best point about separating the physical plastic-controllers from other "true" rhythm games, which I feel are just starting to grow.
WOLF
I think there's life left in the genre, the world just needs a little break is all.
It didn't help that we had 36,000,000 music games released in a year or 2 and each came with an expensive instrument bundle. It didn't help that all the most iconic tracks of the last 50 years had been featured on the first batch of games.
I don't think it needs innovating because the core concept of rocking out in your living room will never leave our collective desires. All we need is a rest, even the most hardcore of rock bands need a break between albums and that's all us lounge room rhythm gods need.
I think there's life left in the genre, the world just needs a little break is all.
It didn't help that we had 36,000,000 music games released in a year or 2 and each came with an expensive instrument bundle. It didn't help that all the most iconic tracks of the last 50 years had been featured on the first batch of games.
I don't think it needs innovating because the core concept of rocking out in your living room will never leave our collective desires. All we need is a rest, even the most hardcore of rock bands need a break between albums and that's all us lounge room rhythm gods need.
GOOF
I think Wolfy made some excellent arguments for exercise and indie games carrying on the rhythm genre, and moving it into a different direction, but he didn't convince me that the glory days of Guitar Hero and DDR are going to be outshined in the future.
Good arguments from both, props to each.
I think Wolfy made some excellent arguments for exercise and indie games carrying on the rhythm genre, and moving it into a different direction, but he didn't convince me that the glory days of Guitar Hero and DDR are going to be outshined in the future.
Good arguments from both, props to each.
WOLF
I think rhythm games are just changing and growing. People love video games. People love music. It's like the chocolate and peanut butter of electronic media.
I think rhythm games are just changing and growing. People love video games. People love music. It's like the chocolate and peanut butter of electronic media.
WOLF
As WB said, there's a lot more to rythm games than simply music-simulators. I'm sure developers will continue to surprise us in the future with all sorts of inventive rythm-based games (Rez 2!).
That being said, it's unfortunate to see instrument-based games in decline (although again, there's still the potential for recovery).
As WB said, there's a lot more to rythm games than simply music-simulators. I'm sure developers will continue to surprise us in the future with all sorts of inventive rythm-based games (Rez 2!).
That being said, it's unfortunate to see instrument-based games in decline (although again, there's still the potential for recovery).
WOLF
Guitar Hero and Rock Band are just two series of games under the rather broad genre that is rhythm action gaming. Although those specific series may have had their heyday, I think rhythm action gaming in general still has a very good possibility of returning to the spotlight in some other form.
Guitar Hero and Rock Band are just two series of games under the rather broad genre that is rhythm action gaming. Although those specific series may have had their heyday, I think rhythm action gaming in general still has a very good possibility of returning to the spotlight in some other form.
I'm inclined to vote in favour of Goof at the moment but one aspect of Wolfy-Boey's is causing me hesitance. Do you have sources to back up your claims that each game you mentioned in preservation of the genre has sold well? I know they stand tall on their critical merits but without the outcome of sufficient profits, who's to say these games won't fizzle out and die, too.
WOLF
It's no secret that I love music games. As Wolf said, there is more than just Guitar Hero and Rock Band out there. Rez HD, Child of Eden, DJ Hero 2, Dance Central and more still sell today. The peripheral games may need a break but there are other music games that will keep the beat going (See what I did there?!).
It's no secret that I love music games. As Wolf said, there is more than just Guitar Hero and Rock Band out there. Rez HD, Child of Eden, DJ Hero 2, Dance Central and more still sell today. The peripheral games may need a break but there are other music games that will keep the beat going (See what I did there?!).
WOLF
Much as I'm not personally a fan of rhythm based games, I can certainly see lots of applications for these games with the growth of motion control on consoles, but also with the new tablet devices. I think that rhythm based games have applications for the blind and handicapped that haven't even been explored yet.
In addition to the use of music to provoke the rhythm, I can see that in gaming for visually impaired, there might be all kinds of games that use some form of auditory input to indicate the appropriate reaction, with additional output ... a story could even be told with the inputs being simple audio cues to evoke motions that allow the story to contine in varying directions.
I don't know that "rhythm" is necessarily music related... it can simply be timed reactions to auditory cues creating a new way of gaming.
Much as I'm not personally a fan of rhythm based games, I can certainly see lots of applications for these games with the growth of motion control on consoles, but also with the new tablet devices. I think that rhythm based games have applications for the blind and handicapped that haven't even been explored yet.
In addition to the use of music to provoke the rhythm, I can see that in gaming for visually impaired, there might be all kinds of games that use some form of auditory input to indicate the appropriate reaction, with additional output ... a story could even be told with the inputs being simple audio cues to evoke motions that allow the story to contine in varying directions.
I don't know that "rhythm" is necessarily music related... it can simply be timed reactions to auditory cues creating a new way of gaming.
GOOF
I agree with a lot of Wolfy-Boey's statements and definitely agree that rhythm games still have life left in them. It is an evolving genre that will no doubt go through many more iterations and changes in the future. Wolfy did a wonderful job of reminding me of how broad the genre actually is and I was *this* close to voting for him.
But then I remember exactly how crazy it was at the absolute height of Guitar Hero and Rock Band's popularity. It's a peak that Dance Central, Zumba or Rhythm Heaven won't get anywhere near. Rhythm games have most certainly reached their heyday but that's not to say that there's no life left in them, just that the sensation crested at an insanely high point.
I agree with a lot of Wolfy-Boey's statements and definitely agree that rhythm games still have life left in them. It is an evolving genre that will no doubt go through many more iterations and changes in the future. Wolfy did a wonderful job of reminding me of how broad the genre actually is and I was *this* close to voting for him.
But then I remember exactly how crazy it was at the absolute height of Guitar Hero and Rock Band's popularity. It's a peak that Dance Central, Zumba or Rhythm Heaven won't get anywhere near. Rhythm games have most certainly reached their heyday but that's not to say that there's no life left in them, just that the sensation crested at an insanely high point.
WOLF
Gotta go with versatility here. Rhythm ain't all about pretend strummin a piece of plastic. I love Patapon and hope I get a chance to play 3. Also since Super Meatboy I've been eyein Bit.Trip like a creepy fat guy on a playground bench.
Too far?
Gotta go with versatility here. Rhythm ain't all about pretend strummin a piece of plastic. I love Patapon and hope I get a chance to play 3. Also since Super Meatboy I've been eyein Bit.Trip like a creepy fat guy on a playground bench.
Too far?
GOOF
It was not easy to choose, but despite Wolfy being right about rithm games still be kicking, I do not see they getting the same popularity they have in their heyday.
It was not easy to choose, but despite Wolfy being right about rithm games still be kicking, I do not see they getting the same popularity they have in their heyday.
WOLF has it. goof's argument lacked breadth and long thinking. Like a past debatoid, people so readily dismiss the idea of innovation in a form they can't imagine at this time. What kind of rhythm game will we see in the future? We have no idea; it might be wondrous far beyond what we've seen so far. All it takes is for some creative individual to dream it up and build it. The same way stick-and-button controls may be gone in the future, we might get crazy rhythm games.
Besides which, popularity of these things seems to go in waves. Assuming we're using similar technology say, 20 years from now, video game companies then could re-release all the games we have right now (or a smart subset of them) and reach the same heights of popularity with the next generation of youngsters.
And Venus, your vote is invalid. Ideally, Bus would use scripts to tally the votes, and yours would be ignored! Directions: can you read them?
Besides which, popularity of these things seems to go in waves. Assuming we're using similar technology say, 20 years from now, video game companies then could re-release all the games we have right now (or a smart subset of them) and reach the same heights of popularity with the next generation of youngsters.
And Venus, your vote is invalid. Ideally, Bus would use scripts to tally the votes, and yours would be ignored! Directions: can you read them?
from wolfy's argument:
[i]Yet the genre is currently enjoying quite a healthy life in both retail and digital markets.
...we're in the golden age of rhythm gaming.[/i]
"healthy life" and "golden age" are both terms used for things that are past their prime... think about old people. Just sayin'
[i]Yet the genre is currently enjoying quite a healthy life in both retail and digital markets.
...we're in the golden age of rhythm gaming.[/i]
"healthy life" and "golden age" are both terms used for things that are past their prime... think about old people. Just sayin'
WOLF
I share the same thoughts as Occams up above. Rhythm games are always changing and evolving to fit in to what's new and hip at the time.
I share the same thoughts as Occams up above. Rhythm games are always changing and evolving to fit in to what's new and hip at the time.
WOLF
They might not be as popular as they were even just a year ago, but I'm not convinced that we've seen all there is to see. What comes next could be bigger still!
They might not be as popular as they were even just a year ago, but I'm not convinced that we've seen all there is to see. What comes next could be bigger still!
WOLF
The fact that the dance games (particularly Just Dance on the Wii) are popular mean that rhythm-action hasn't had its heyday yet. One thing Move, Kinect and Wii have done right is to employ the human body (along with a basic controller) to get involved in those games.
We still have Rhythm Heaven Wii to be released (which should be popular), and I believe the genre has a little bit more space to manoeuvre for original ideas than, let's say, the driving sim/racing genre.
The fact that the dance games (particularly Just Dance on the Wii) are popular mean that rhythm-action hasn't had its heyday yet. One thing Move, Kinect and Wii have done right is to employ the human body (along with a basic controller) to get involved in those games.
We still have Rhythm Heaven Wii to be released (which should be popular), and I believe the genre has a little bit more space to manoeuvre for original ideas than, let's say, the driving sim/racing genre.
WOLF
Rhythm games have certainly cooled down, but they are hardly a thing of the past. Rock Band is still the best party game around, as in the case with my circle of friends it went from being something we did at a party, to something we would base an entire party around. They have a socializing effect and a draw to non-gamers that I don't think any other genre has.
Rhythm games have certainly cooled down, but they are hardly a thing of the past. Rock Band is still the best party game around, as in the case with my circle of friends it went from being something we did at a party, to something we would base an entire party around. They have a socializing effect and a draw to non-gamers that I don't think any other genre has.

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