Quantcast
Destructoid - Lenore Coffee's Community Blog




About Me
Student, explorer, wordographer, photosmith, occasional professor, cephalopod enthusiast, failed romantic.
Gamer Profile
3DS friend code:
Steam:
Battle:
PSN:
Mii:
Gamertag:
Following (11)
Anthony Burch
CblogRecaps
DtoidSanFrancisco
Hamza CTZ Aziz
Haxan
Nick Chester
ryderbackside
Sentry
Steel Squirrel
Zippyduda
zombiekiller13
Arbitrary Experience—Where’s the “Earn” in “Learn”?
Lenore Coffee | 10:23 AM on 08.29.2009 15 comments





My Fallout 3 character is one badass little honeypot. I stacked Sneak, Small & Big Guns to 100; Agility and Perception are at 10. When I first started playing, I’d tiptoe around Raider camps and lure them out one at a time to be picked off like distracted little deer (rabid and ammo-laden though they may be). Now, however, I hunt those bitches down, striking known camps when enough time has passed for them to respawn in even greater, more armored numbers.

This is, of course, after a couple early attempts at the game when I ventured towards creating what I felt were more interesting and complex characters based on skill, which promptly led to my inevitable and repeated slaughter. My Charisma is shite, Speech and Barter next to nothing, yet I spend a good part of the game picking the bones of my victims for goods to sell and trade, and my Karma is so stellar that I’ve attained a follower from the Brotherhood of Steel and random Wastelanders approach me bearing gifts.

One would think that, based on these two main components in my gameplay, attributes like Charisma, Speech, and Barter would rise, yet due to the arbitrary nature of XP expenditure in games, I get to place it where I damn well please. Due to my aforementioned failures, I learned to place these points in areas that would better ensure my survival rather than in places more reflective of the kind of “actual” experience my character was garnering through play.

So what does it mean to gain experience in a game? Back in my tabletop and online roleplaying days, XP was most often granted in much the same way—play a bit, earn some points, and spend them where you damn well please. No matter if I’d devoted my time to investigating the intricacies of a plot or simply terrorizing whomever I could find—I got the points and placed them where I desired, no matter how much (or little) it had to do with the way my character behaved.

Once I started GMing, however, I took a new approach. The characters under my care had to earn the experience they sought, and I didn’t simply assign a number to by divvied out as the player saw fit. Based on the actions of each character, the time devoted to and success by which they had performed certain tasks or actively pursued particular skills or sets of knowledge, I assigned them very specific points of experience. If a character spent most of her time slaying enemies, I would offer points in skills and attributes such as Melee, Strength, Guns, Agility, etc. If another devoted his play to seducing every other character and NPC in the game, they might gain some Charisma, Seduction, Speech, or even lose points in some of these areas if his efforts were dreadfully disastrous.

Naturally, some players disliked this XP “assignment” regime I developed in my games, and I invited those few to promptly fuck off, but for the most part I found a troupe of players that became more focused, more purpose-driven, and endowed with a sense of reward for this acknowledgment of their efforts. Further, it encouraged them to devote more time and creativity toward earning what they wanted for their characters and to develop more intricate, complex, and realistic personalities, knowing that I would steer the details of the story to compliment and challenge each of their strengths and weaknesses through the course of play.

So in most games with Experience Points, I continually find myself in the same cycle of arbitrary adherence to earning what I can to assign what I must for the simple sake of survival. It’s most often not a reflection of the character I’m building through concept and action, but it’s what the game requires to manage gangs of Super Mutants or regain health by sliding my electrically-charged ass across power lines or even set off viral detectors whilst pointing the finger at another patsied soldier.

I just don’t see why it’s so damn difficult to set up a system by which a character earns new powers or skills based on the actions one, as a player, chooses to make. Especially in the expansive RPGiverse, an engine should be able to track the types of maneuvers one makes and thus assign XP to reflect these actions. It’s cause and effect. It’s consequence, and the possibilities for greater depth, immersion, and commitment to a game and one’s character could, in this way, expand profoundly.

It’s not about an algorithm insinuating worth, but the player’s interaction with the code of his or her gamespace to realize the decisions we make, as those who wield our characters often with so much abandon, may indeed shape meaning from the incongruous intentions of these, our binary souls.



Is this post awesome? Vote it up!

0



Post a comment! You can also post a photo below:

Comment with Facebook





Click connect and comment instantly!

Comment with Dtoid





New? SIGN UP - it takes 5 seconds

14 comments | showing # 1 to 14
prev next

Mr Wrighty 987's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/29/2009 11:06
Mr Wrighty 987
Cool story bro.
El Nicko's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/29/2009 11:30
El Nicko
I could be wrong but im pretty sure thats how it worked in Oblivion. The more you used a skill the better you became at it.

I really wish more games would adopt this style. I can't remember the last game before Oblivion that took up so much of my time.
Daxelman's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/29/2009 11:46
Daxelman
El Nicko: Go play Pokemon, and EV Train for a couple of weeks.
Timmeh's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/29/2009 11:47
Timmeh
Yeah, that's what Oblivion did except Bethesda fucked it up. The enemy leveling meant that if you spent too much time running or jumping over fences you'd routinely getit up the ass from monsters that had combat skills vastly more developed than yours.

I agree though, character development in RPGs is something that could really do with evolving. It's stupid so few games break from the tradition of having an universal experience points 'pool' the player can pour into any area they see fit.
Steel Squirrel's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/29/2009 11:50
Steel Squirrel
Oblivion sort of worked like that. The more you used your primary skills--blade, acrobatics, sneak, whatever--the faster you leveled up. You still allocated the points to various traits when you went to the level up screen though. I think what she means is a system in which you level up strictly the skill being used. Like if you were to attempt say... sneaking and stealth all of the time and you continuously got caught stealing and/or sneaking... you would actually lose points and not just gain them by arbitrarily sneaking about. On the other side of that, if you didn't get caught and you were a good thief, staying hidden and successful... you would then gain XP towards stealth or sneak.

Anyway... I THINK that's what she was talking about. ;)
Arkhon's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/29/2009 11:56
Arkhon
Yeah, you should play Oblivion. You only level up the skills you use. It's one of the reasons it's my favorite game. It also uses the exact same engine as Fallout 3, minus a few tweaks.

Oh, and I think Final Fantasy II on the GBA had the same sort of system, where your characters would get better with a weapon by using it, they would get higher level Ice spells by using the Ice spell, that kind of thing.
Lenore Coffee's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/29/2009 11:58
Lenore Coffee
The Steel Squirrel has indeed correctly interpreted my meaning. I wonder if it's the Steel or the Squirrel in him?
El Nicko's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/29/2009 12:14
El Nicko
See i had forgotten about the actual leveling up part.

But her system sounds extremely fun to me. It sounds like ive seen it somewhere before but can't think of what it was...i have the worst memory.
RAB's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/29/2009 12:20
RAB
but don't you learn more from fucking up than you do from doin it right?
Daxelman's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/29/2009 13:05
Daxelman
I trying to put down what Rab said into words, but he did it better than what I was still thinking of.

I would think that if you fuck up, you die, and have to do it again. You get the IRL experience from doing it wrong. Then you get the recognition and shit from doing it right.

Maybe it scales and gives you more experience from all the times you've been doing it wrong, when you finally get it right?
Danmartigan's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/29/2009 14:35
Danmartigan
If I remember correctly, Morrowind (the game before Oblivion) worked this way. I remember trying to build my ranger class, and in order to level up in archery, I had to shoot thousands and thousands of arrows to make it happen. It felt pretty rewarding later in the game, but one of the things that bugged me about the system was the acrobatics skill. The game forces you to run all over the world to accomplish your tasks, but in doing so you auto-level the acrobatics skill which eventually makes you feel like you're wearing magical moon boots. I guess if I could decide which skills to NOT auto-level that would be ideal... which is probably why they made Oblivion the way that they did.
ryderbackside's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/29/2009 17:18
ryderbackside
I remember getting frustrated by, then learning to enjoy Secret of Evermore's magic (alchemy) system, where individual spells would level up through repeated usage. But I would like to see more games follow an experience system based on skill specific use and leveling, like repeated lockpicking and pickpocketing leading to strenghthing of those particular skills, rather than blowing up a bunch of innocent villagers and somehow allocating that experience to stealthy, sneaky abilities.
Hoss's Avatar - Comment posted on 09/01/2009 04:49
Hoss
yeah id like to see more of this as well... its almost like a trial to see what character type you are in other games and would help pick a preset

there you are mounding experience and then you drop your controller and say "my god, im an engineer. i never wanted to believe it but there it is."

think of it as a long winded "which character are you." quiz
prev next

Comment with Facebook





Click connect and comment instantly!

Comment with Dtoid





New? SIGN UP - it takes 5 seconds

Comments policy

Destructoid is an open discussion community. You don't need to "audition" to post a comment - just speak your mind. We respect differing opinions on the site, so have at it. Be smart, funny, insightful, clueless, or cute -- but back it up with substance. Keep your cool, keep it fun. We only ask that you act respectfully and above all: don't be a troll and ruin it for everyone else. Don't bring down gamers or we'll, you know, gently shoot you in the face and stuff you into a flaming mailbox. Each comment is your opportuntity to make this community awesomer. Is that even a word?

Avoiding the banhammer only requires common sense: spamming, trolling, racism, NSFW stuff, and other forms of sucking will not be tolerated. If anyone is griefing please report abuse. Be good. Don't suck!