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Born in the Alps and raised by a group of wild elk, KnuxSonic migrated to America in the late 1980's with only a swatch watch and his VHS copies of Saved by the Bell.

He began gaming soon hereafter while living in the basement of Funcoland, the one out by the mall (you know, the mall where the Greasers hung out? That one.) Sonic the Hedgehog changed his life. He realized that while he himself had no talent, he could write long paragraphs about nothing, literally! To this day, KnuxSonic still plays entire seasons of MLB 2K7 without remorse.
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G4 President calls forum troll, explains why G4 "sucks"
KnuxSonic | 12:46 AM on 08.06.2008 33 comments


((Let me preface this post by saying that, yes, I did work as a sort of fan-consultant for G4 for 3 months, but that contract is over and now I'm free to spew whatever I feel!))

So, pretty much everyone is bitter at G4 for some reason or another, but I have to admit that they are impressing me a lot this year. This latest story is pretty cool.

How often do you hear about Presidents of cable networks posting in forums or even CALLING angry viewers? That's exactly what happened to "reaper36s" a G4 forum user who pretty much hung out in the "Viewer Feedback" forum and screamed obscenities at G4 for ruining TechTV, canceling a ton of their gaming shows, picking up COPS and CHEATERS etc. He demands that Neal Tiles, the network president, explain himself. Neal Tiles surprisingly posted several responses to try and explain his actions as president, but that wasn't enough for Mr. Reaper36s. Next, Reaper36s demanded a phone call from Tiles.

What do you fucking know, Neal Tiles calls the dude. They apparently talk for over an hour.

Neal posted the summary of what they talked about here, so here's the copy-pasta:

========================

[i]First, I want to thank G4 forum member Reaper36s for taking the time to talk to me. He opened my eyes to a point of view from the fans that was very helpful and valuable for me to hear. He also had a few great suggestions that we are going to investigate. I asked Reaper not to disclose some of the information I shared with him about G4's financial past, but what I did share with him, which I'm happy to share with you all, is that at the end of 2005, after nearly three years of "Videogame TV"...G4 was losing tens of millions of dollars EACH year...with a business plan that, even with aggressive assumptions in growth, had no end in red ink for another five years at least. That's a big compounded loss if the business did not change its course. Who would want to, or should want to, fund this kind of business? Ours was not a decision on how to make MORE profit, rather it was how to show positive cash flow to be a viable business, because guess what...while many of you might not like the amount of gamer TV we have on now...or not like COPS or Cheaters...if G4 went out of business all we would be left with is 13 half hours a year of GameTrailersTV on Spike at 1am.

Yes, the G4 numbers Onoma posted are low. Welcome to the world of media fragmentation. I hope this shows you how just how hard it is out there to gather an audience, though to be fair to G4, this ranks us based on Adults 18-34, while our target is Men 18-34. We rely/sell on our concentration of young men. We don't try to pass ourselves off as an aggregator of mass impressions...we're just not that kind of business...yet.

Though the numbers from Onoma's post represent a significant increase from where we were 3 years ago, we're not out of the woods yet. We're certainly headed in the right direction as evidenced by our track record of growth...this is really great for all of us, viewers included.

There are a few things I'd like to chime in on at this point, because I feel like there are a few key things unsaid here in many of the posts: There's been discussion that I canceled shows just because I wanted to change things. I canceled shows that did not perform relative to their cost...and/or that we felt was duplicative to one another (i.e. Judgment Day was close enough to X-Play). Heck, at the time, even one of the hosts of G4TV.com told me flat out...that they didn't know why their show (one of the more expensive ones to produce at the time) lasted as long as it did with the lack of ratings it was getting.

* Regarding canceling shows that had a loyal following of forum posters, I value what people here on the forums have to say. It's ONE of the instruments we use to make decisions, but it's not the primary instrument...that is reserved for ratings results. It has to be, since, at the end of the day, that is the true measurement the business is built upon. Ask the producers of TV shows like Jericho or Arrested Development or Firefly if those canceled shows had a loyal/devoted/vocal fan base before they were canceled...or the movie executives who produced Snakes on a Plane. Simply, success in online communities doesn't always translate into performance success overall...on the flip side, look at a show like CSI, a monster hit, but really no big forum community to match that success.

* Regarding the allegations that I'm not a believer in videogame programming... I've said it 1,000 times, I'm not opposed to videogame programming at all, I just value videogame programming with wide appeal. The think I am opposed to is having gaming programming be the only thing the network airs. I will state again, the opportunity for a linear TV network JUST about gaming is too narrow to sustain a business the size of G4's. That's not a statement based on opinion, it's based on facts. Three years worth of learning that the business is just beginning to emerge from. That being said, I'm proud of the gaming content we have added over past three years (as outlined in past Open Sources).

* Regarding X-Play, we didn't change it to just "F" with it...we changed it because its ratings growth was not keeping up with the growth that the rest of the network was experiencing overall. Also, X-Play could boost the overall network average with just a modest bump in ratings because of how much we use this program (it's our most aired show) Guess what? It worked...the new X-Play has seen fantastic growth this year (the show is up +20% thus far)

* So why does it have to be COPS and Cheaters? Simply, these shows give us a reliable amount of "covering fire" that we can re-build the business around...I recognize they aren't the perfect fit for us, but, again, based on the financial situation the network was in, and still is, though to a much lesser extent, we really didn't/don't have a choice. We need something to bank on as we could not do so with the gaming shows we had.

* "Could the growth be coming from an increase in the amount of people who now get G4 vs. three years ago?" The answer is: "a little bit, but not really." Over the past three years G4's gone from 55 million homes to 63 million homes...that's an increase of about +15% in distribution/more homes getting G4. Meanwhile, our ratings (i.e. percent of viewing among people who get G4) have more than doubled (i.e. more than +100%) Simply, the increase is due to more people watching what we have on, both videogame programming (X-Play and gaming events) and non-videogame programming (Comic-Con, COPS, Cheaters, Ninja Warrior, and AOTS).

So, I realize most of the posters here will never come around to accepting the reasons why we are no longer a pure videogame network. I realize many of you think we are trying to be like MTV or Spike TV, and maybe that is the cold truth, but know that we are doing so with the intention of videogame content, gadget/tech content, viral web culture content and unique live event programming as the principles that define what G4 is now and in the future. NOT EVERYTHING WE AIR will make sense to this definition, I realize that, but the things that don't (COPS/Cheaters) give us the foundation to build a future, one that may not need these shows OR at the very least, don't rely on them so heavily. That's our goal, but it will take time for us to get there financially. So in the meantime you'll likely see things that you may not like/agree with (i.e. Hurl) but know that we're just trying to find a wider audience than we've had in the past to support us financially.

However, if you take anything away from this, understand that if you are a fan of gamer TV, then, I think, it's really in your best interest to support us...not necessarily by praising G4, but by not trying to perpetuate negativity about G4. Convincing others to hate the network is a roundabout way of killing what gamer TV we currently have on air and our chances to add to that in the future. So, as our moms taught us all, "If you don't have anything nice to say...."

In the meantime, I hope you all enjoy our expanded coverage of Leipzig and PAX this month...and we'll check in with you all September 1 on Open Source.[/i]

==================================

The problem with getting people to organize and watch G4's gaming show(s) (would you even consider AOTS a gaming show now?) is that 90% of the internet already assumes G4 is fail and a total lost cause.

There is some good at G4, at least their President is TRYING to get people to understand the business side of things. There a few positives happening at G4, in that they have greatly expanded their E3 coverage the past few years, X-Play has moved to 5 days a week and now they're branching out to cover stuff like PAX and Leipzig and even bringing back some of the old fan-favorites in "G4 Rewind" but the negative stigma they've got from so many gamers out there is going to be hard to shake.

Would you watch AOTS/X-Play daily if it meant the future return of a true gaming network?

-KnuxSonic



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31 comments | showing # 1 to 31
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dephect's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/06/2008 01:21
dephect
I actually read this whole damn thing.

I think its pretty awesome that "Neil" called the guy. I have no problems with G4, it provides laughs and sometimes they have some good stuff.

Thanks for the news.
Rockefellow's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/06/2008 01:30
Rockefellow
Good find.

While I don't like numerous aspects of G4, it's hard not to appreciate and respect Neal Tiles and his straightforward admission to what's happened, is going on and what will potentially happen. It is very hard to cater to each individual that are now a part of the channel's community, and he seems to be dedicated to helping sustain all of them.

Of course, the effectiveness of this is debatable...
MrSadistic's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/06/2008 01:30
MrSadistic
Attack of the Show is a horrible excuse of a show. It would be at least tolerable if they got rid of the fact that they try too hard to act like "The Soup" with their shitty "live" audience. Also, if they got rid of the pseudo-hip, smug, pretentious, douche-bag attitudes of the people on that show then it would be at least watchable.

Anyway, I don't get why they just get some episodes of Maury to join Cops & Cheaters on G4 so they can compete with every other FOX affiliate that air those lame shows all day. At least the "non-gaming" shows from Japan are tolerable.

It's ok if their president wants to fuck up the entire legacy that TechTV (and to a lesser extent, G4) had but at least take off the 1 or 2 good shows that have been around since the beginning and put them on a better channel.
SnakeDude4Life's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/06/2008 01:35
SnakeDude4Life
If I had the money to get a package with G4, I would watch it and give some feedback here..

Untill then, I have nothing else to say.
Red TheHaze Veron's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/06/2008 01:36
Red TheHaze Veron
Sum it up: G4 with videogames didnt make us enough money so yeah we're ditching videogames.

They couldve saved money by not giving Morgan Webb all those millions.
Too Much Coffee Man's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/06/2008 01:54
Too Much Coffee Man
I never watched G4. except for Code Monkeys. that's it.

I miss the days of ZDTV. TechTV was pretty good too. But when comcast bought it & diffused it into G4; that's when i stopped watching because it ceased to exist. If their plan was to try & transfer over existing TechTV viewers they failed miserably.

If their demo is 10-15 year old boys they succeeded. But if that's the case, why buy TechTV? national syndication? TechTV certainly was a completely different demo than G4 has aimed for.
Simmons 2pt0's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/06/2008 01:58
Simmons 2pt0
The only good thing about G4 is Adam Sessler

ArrestedDeveloper's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/06/2008 02:09
ArrestedDeveloper
I'm sick of people complaining about G4, they did what they had to do to stay afloat. And stop pining for TechTV, if it hadn't become G4 it would have most likely gone out of business by now because I'm guessing Screen Savers wasn't bringing in tons of advertisement revenue. Enjoy what good there is (Ninja Warrior) and ignore the crap (Hurl!).
Bus's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/06/2008 02:09
Bus
His response was amazingly candid. I think every network executive would love to say similar sentiments to everyone on the internet who complained about unfortunate programming choices like canceling beloved shows or filling the airwaves with unmitigated crap that nevertheless attracts a large audience.

Even still, he's remarkably short sighted. Yeah, they've managed to boost their ratings immensely over time with COPS and Cheaters but is that really that great of an audience to aim for? COPS and Cheaters fans?

Studio 60 was a terrible show but it stayed on the air for a ridiculously long time because wealthy people watched it. Now, billions of dollars are spent on video games every year by, primarily, intelligent young men. Yet I doubt any would watch COPS or Cheaters without a gun to their head. Even the actual gaming shows get much hatred.

They're just not even attempting to make something for hardcore gamers to enjoy. None of their shows rise above or try to be something greater. They could give the Red Vs. Blue guys an opportunity to make the first great machinia sitcom but instead they give us Code Monkeys. Just saying that name makes me cringe. They shot down Mega64 and probably made Leo LaPorte at some point cry.

And since the internet already does a pretty damn good job of catering to our every need for information, commentary, humor, AND video, really what point is there for a TV channel devoted to gaming? I'm fine with G4 trying to make a buck and I like that they're being honest about it but I also hope they drop the "we are the only hope for video game TV" crap.
Simmons 2pt0's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/06/2008 02:16
Simmons 2pt0
In regards to the post, I applaud Neal Tiles and respect him for saying these things that most other higher ups would just sweep under the rug. I watch G4 if something on it interests me, like X-play previewing a game a game I'm looking forward to, and I enjoy Unbeatable Banzuke as well.

But Cheaters is a horrid show, along with Code Monkeys, and Ninja Warrior is a bit played out, as I swear I've seen every episode. But, if it's giving them ratings that they need to put on better quality television, then I'll just change the damned channel.
MaximusPaynicus's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/06/2008 02:21
MaximusPaynicus
It takes money to make money. I wouldn't be surprised if G4 is using shows like Cops and Cheaters to build some kind of base to show the advertisers. After all, if you impress the advertisers, they pay you more money and that, in turn, allows G4 (now part of the E! Network family) to develop original content. We've already started to see that with Code Monkeys.

I've been watching G4 since its inception. I've seen the "golden age" of Portal, Blister and G4TV.Com, and I sat and watched through what I refer to as "the dark times", when G4 and TechTV were trying to merge. They are actually doing much better than they were this time three years ago.

Finally, Bus, G4 really IS the only hope for video game TV -- at least for the foreseeable future. You see, G4 has developed such a bad reputation (partially deserved, partially because a lot of TechTV purists are blubbery vaginas) that there is nobody who would, in their right mind, sign on to fund another video game network.
KnuxSonic's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/06/2008 02:34
KnuxSonic
MaximuxPaynicus (HAY!) is right. Neal has actually stated several times that COPS and Cheaters totally don't fit the crowd they're after, but they bring in advertisers to fund X-Play and AOTS.

SpikeTV is the closest thing we have to Gaming TV after G4 and I'm certainly not content with 1/2 hour of gaming tv a week.
pendelton21's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/06/2008 02:37
pendelton21
Interesting read. I, too, am very happy for the G4 Rewind revival hours.
KnuxSonic's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/06/2008 02:58
KnuxSonic
FYI, Rewind was extended until September, however it's still early mornings :|
RAB's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/06/2008 03:53
RAB
My only real problem is the fact that they play Ninja Warrior for a solid 4 hours on some days.

Also fuck Cheaters.


Cops is ok, but it's really hanging on by a thread.
nintendoll's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/06/2008 04:42
nintendoll
I love Ninja Warrior. Though I feel like I end up seeing more COPS than Ninja Warrior.


Also, Olivia Munn should be fired. Morgan isn't that bad; Olivia is clearly reading off cue cards and just looks spacey and stupid. They hired her as eye candy and it drives me nuts.
Bus's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/06/2008 05:39
Bus
MaximuxPaynicus, I really do enjoy saying your name. Yeah, they definitely are the last great hope for video gaming TV but the kind of video gaming TV they would make (someday in the nonexistent future when they cease to care about profitability) is, to me, at best unnecessary and at worst painful to watch. And their poetic calls for loyalty (or at the very least keeping your criticism to yourself) through these growing pains in the hope of some brighter future for gaming TV just rubs me the wrong way. It's of course just my elitist opinion which is certainly colored by the fact that I hate almost everything on TV.
randombullseye's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/06/2008 05:52
randombullseye
I don't even want to justify G4 with my opinion.
MATTFOO's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/06/2008 07:37
MATTFOO
TL;DR FUCK G4!
bhive01's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/06/2008 07:55
bhive01
I used to love watching TechTV when I got home from work since they had a good mix of n00b and expert on a lot of their shows.

When they merged with G4, I had to downgrade my cable for financial reasons and just lost track of it. It doesn't help that G4 is on the upper tiers, buried in with a lot of other stuff. Without a DVR it's hard to keep track of a lot of these shows that I might be interested in. There is not enough time in my day to hunt for shows that I 'might' want to watch. I'd rather just game. That way I know I'm getting enjoyment out of it. If there was a compelling reason to watch a show on G4 then I probably would do it.

Alas, as someone pointed out, it seems like every time find it on my satellite it's COPS and not something tech or gaming related. I've more or less given up on it.
Char Aznable's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/06/2008 09:48
Char Aznable
I missed my train to work this morning because I was reading this entire thing.

Respek to Neal Tiles for going OUT OF HIS FUCKING WAY to explain the situation to the sandy-vag TechTV fans. I guess the "full disclosure" approach is best if he's trying to win back the cynical, male 18-34 demographic.

With that said, I rarely ever check out G4 these days, unless it's 4am and X-Play comes on.
Shin Oni's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/06/2008 10:01
Shin Oni
I can see both sides of this thing and I think it's cool that Neal Tiles calls the dude and talks. Most heads wouldn't even bother checking forums.

Though I'm still against G4's nonsense they spout out. If anything, I think when G4 started off, it was too good of a gaming channel. Only cause around the time it started, Satellite TV was still new and limited in so many homes. Plus G4 was only with Comcast at first and there's many better providers than Comcast. With most people in G4's "Golden days" as we G4 forum goers back in the day called it, we were still working off the Cable box. Is it there fault? Probably a little.

Now if G4 were to have came out later when Satellite tv's were basically the standard like now...I gurantee it'd be a different story. It'd be a success for sure and word would easily spread the net. But I doubt much will change now.

I haven't looked at G4 seriously since the G4/Tech TV merger. Even then my G4 time was lowering cause they didn't balance networking shit out.
king3vbo's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/06/2008 10:35
king3vbo
Reaper sounds a little too close to Reaprar
free touch's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/06/2008 10:36
free touch
I always check G4. My wife loves AOTS, and I try to catch the week in reviews on saturday night, since its a solid 2.5 hours of awesome. Plus the humor is great. We also like Unbeatable Banzuke and Ninja Warrior. And to be honest, Code Monkeys is some damn funny stuff. The amount of old school game references they throw in it is great.
balth's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/06/2008 11:13
balth
I also mourn TechTV and when they combined it with G4, neither one of the channels survived the merger well.

I have stopped watching it altogether since Dtoid is 1000 times better than AOTS.
Aaron Mxy Yost's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/06/2008 11:35
Aaron Mxy Yost
The problem with ratings is that they're not remotely accurate. You're using a very small slice of the viewing audience and omitting factors like groups of multiple people or shows recorded to watch later to gauge a how much a program is actually viewed. Unfortunately it's also the only way a network can figure out how to charge advertising rates. But the fact is, using ratings as an excuse for canceling a show is relying on extremely skewed data.

I don't care for most of G4's content, so I don't watch it. I don't have a Nielsen box, so it doesn't matter in any case. If the network dies, oh well. I have the internet.
Eschatos's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/06/2008 11:37
Eschatos
I don't really watch TV much, but if they improved I might have to change that.
TrailerParkJesus's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/06/2008 12:09
TrailerParkJesus
"Would you watch AOTS/X-Play daily if it meant the future return of a true gaming network?"

I already watch it everyday, more or less. But I don't think it'll ever become a true gaming network. The people who they expect to tune in would have to split their time with playing videogames and watching it, and that's probably part of the low ratings (besides meh prgramming). It's not as much of a problem with other dedicated networks.

Maybe if they figured out peak video game playing times for their viewers, or gamers in general, then they could air NVGR programs then.

and I agree with ArrestedDeveloper.
Chaoticwolf's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/06/2008 12:18
Chaoticwolf
I only watch G4 for AOTS. And I don't watch it often, either.
Geoff Henao's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/06/2008 13:02
Geoff Henao
The one girl is hotter than the other. The other girl was/is in America's Best Dance Crew. Adam Sessler has an annoying voice, but I can tolerate him otherwise. I wish they'd air more obscure Japanese game shows. THAT'S what would win me over.
Brian Szabelski's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/06/2008 15:29
Brian Szabelski
The only thing I really watch G4 for are the Japanese shows they have on it.
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