Quantcast
Destructoid - Kinjiro's Community Blog




About Me
i'm a random person you don't know and probably don't care about

regardless, i'm a gamer, and have lots of gamer friends. i like entertaining people, so i'm going to write random stories that may or may not pertain to gaming, but hopefully will amuse you.

uhhh, stuff about me:

i play games, sports, and i party
currently going to college, and hoping i can get out before i'm broke
i have and love a ps3, 360, pc, ps2, xbox, gamecube, and sega genesis

at the request of several people (read: of my own volition), i did a more thorough blog pertaining to this exact topic

http://www.destructoid.com/blogs/Kinjiro/this-is-the-story-all-about-how--174108.phtml

i would recommend reading it

Gamer Profile
3DS friend code:
Steam: kinjiro89
Battle:
PSN: kinjiro89
Mii:
Gamertag: Kinjir0
Following (12)
Beyamor
CblogRecaps
Elsa
Fission Mailed
garethxxgod
LawofThermalDynamics
Mr Andy Dixon
Occams electric toothbrush
Poe
rexwolf2
Snaileb
SteezyXL
The Hardest of Core
Kinjiro | 3:05 PM on 01.31.2011 20 comments


Over the last week or so, I've been teaching a couple friends how to play fighting games. This only happened because I recently procured a fightstick, and so now there are two available on the regular at my house. Explaining the concept of the quarter circle, half circle, forward-down-downforward, and charging has been quite the task. Apparently, the only way to get non-hardcore gamers into fighting games is to give them eight shiny buttons, and a snappy joystick. I've tried to ages and ages to get my non-hardcore friends to jump in and play games with me, but for some reason the stick was the turning point.

However, during the course of the training it became increasingly obvious that the standard tropes of the hardcore gaming niche are debilitating hurdles for any "casual" player to surmount. It begs the question, what actually defines a "hardcore gamer?" Is it even possible to switch from one party to the other? And why do so many people, including those who already play a fair amount of casual games, have such difficulty crossing the threshold?

According to my (now dated) gaming design classes, the hardcore gamer (henceforth referred to as core) is an 18 to 25 year old male, who plays upwards of fifteen to twenty hours a week. Keep in mind, this is obviously a blatant generalization, as there are women, children, and adults who fit the loose description of "playtime of more than X hours." It was simply pointed out as one demographic that stands opposite of the casual gamer. Core gamers have a higher attach rate, more playing time per game, and a higher tolerance for difficulty. They also tend to have a smaller tolerance for bugs or imbalanced game play. This definition is kind of in transition, as the average age of the Core gaming market has increased from around 22, to upwards of 25, meaning that core gamers remain core gamers well into adulthood.

The fact remains, that even as an adult, the casual observer is less than capable at even distinguishing what is going on in the game, much less how to actively play. The complexity of games has made it so anyone even willing to try must subjugate themselves to weeks, or even months of constant losing.

It never really occurred to me how deeply I fit into the Core demographic until I was called on to teach my friends to play. Upon picking up the stick, my friends jiggled them around a little bit, had fun poking the buttons, and proceed to start to play. This is roughly how it went. For the record, we were playing SSFIV.



Me- Ok, go ahead and pick a character. I'd recommend Ryu, and his first ultra (Metsu Hadouken).

Friend- How do I pick? Nothings happening.

Me- You have to hit start first.

Friend- Oh, ok. Where's that guy?

M- Top left.

F- Why aren't there any names?

M- There are, you just have to highlight them first.

F- That confusing, how do you know who's who?

M- I just do, some of these characters have been around for like two decades, so picking out the new ones is easy.

F- Ok, whats this?

M- Costume, just hit X.

F- What's this?

M- Thats your ultra, you should pick the first one. It's a big fireball.

F- Is that japanese? How do you know which is which?

M- Just ask if you don't know, I'll explain it. Just hit X.

F- What's this?

M- Handicap, just hit X.


Notice how many questions I've had to answer, before you we even start playing.

At this point, we reach the stage select, and the game loads. The map pops up, and then we start. The basics of movement, blocking, and attacks are quickly explained, but execution is what's holding my friends back. This is fine, it's completely what I expected. I've done my best to explain which move does what, and when you want to use it. I tried doing this in lieu of having them use the move list, because it's incredibly overwhelming to try and remember what does what with the stupid little diagrams. There are, what, at least four pages for each character? Even things as simple as distinguishing between ultra one and two took an explanation. They eventually learned what they meant so I wouldn't have to do a rundown at the beginning of every match, but how is someone supposed to learn the moves if the diagrams aren't intuitive?

I had to preface the entire experience with a quick explanation of the three character types, being command, charge and grapple. This was met with a basic understanding, but ultimately I had to drop it for the sake of their attention span.

One of the first things they asked about was ultra combos. This entailed explaining the bars.



There are three of them. Each has its own specific set of rules. *Sigh* But it eventually became clear enough, and we moved on to the act of initiating an ultra.

It's funny how easy double qcf is to me, but how insanely difficult it is for a casual gamer. You can't hit in the wrong direction (with some tolerance), you have to do it fast enough, you have to hit the buttons at the right time, etc. If they mess up the buttons, it does nothing, the wrong move or an EX move, wasting meter. If you mess up the stick, it does nothing, or the wrong move. If you time either wrong, you potentially whiff. Even if they pulled it off, it must have been frustrating having it blocked, or dodged. There was a certain amount of anger when then got poked out of them as well. Even the ultra bar is an odd concept, because it seemingly rewards you for taking damage.

How did a game about beating people up get so incredibly complicated?

And so we soldiered on, and played like that for a couple days, with each person sticking with one or two characters, and I would cycle through random so they could see each person, learn how they move, yadda yadda yadda. I sandbagged pretty hard, knowing from experience that getting absolutely beat on isn't conducive to any sort of learning environment. They steadily improved, getting more and more consistent with each passing day. It was at that point that I decided to introduce more key concepts.

First was focus attacks. Two buttons, easy enough, right? Hold them down, charge it up, let it fly. I figured it would be pretty easy to explain, but as always, hard to master. The thing is, it's not that easy for anyone who doesn't play fighting games regularly.

For one, getting them to understand the focus armor was difficult at best. Being able to eat a hit sounds fun, until you realize it doesn't come back if you get hit again. You can't move, making it strategically difficult, but explaining dashing out of it was simply too much. If they mash focus during specials, it does a focus cancel, draining their super meter while seemingly doing nothing. Every time a logical sniggle arose, I was forced to do my best to explain it, without speaking in jargon or being condescending.

And then there are the armor breaks.

Keep in mind that this if for a simple two button command.

Topics as of yet unexplained include frame canceling, super and ultra canceling, feints, counters, wake up and stand up attacks, the magic series, 360 and 720 buffering, holding attacks by holding buttons, command throws, etc. etc. etc. etc. ETC. ETC. ETC.


WHAT THE FUCK WAS I THINKING?!? I can't possible explain all this! I can barely understand when this shit happens, much less actually integrate it into my game. And now I feel motivated to teach it. What kind of sadistic asshole designed this shit?

My friends have valiantly plodded forward, getting better and better. They'll continue to do so, so long as I'm willing to open my house up to them so they can practice. But it raises the question, if I hadn't taken the time to explain all of this to them like my brother did for me, what would they be doing?

The answer is simple. Someone would buy Super Street Fighter 4, because it was pretty. The players would dick around, occasionally throwing (read:spamming) hadouken, and perhaps if enough flailing was going on, they'd get to see a super every couple of rounds. There isn't a good tutorial, there isn't a dictionary, and there is hardly a welcoming community around to help. Not saying people aren't friendly, but without arcades, the only experience playing actual people would be online, and it can only be assumed that everyone online is a soulless asshat (myself included.) You don't go online to give pointers to the scrubs you fight, you mercilessly destroy them.

And so, the casual player would get bored, stop playing, and an incredibly fun and deep game would go unplayed, becoming a 60 dollar beer coaster.

But moving on.

For example, this is the Tekken 5 DR character select screen.



Notice the lack of any names whatsoever. The only name you can see isn't even a character name.

And lets check out the command list. I'll show you the one for Devil Jin (not regular Jin, mind you), who's one of my favorite characters.

http://www.tekkenzaibatsu.com/tekken5dr/movelist.php?id=deviljin

Yeah, click that.

And then tell me, if you don't play Tekken, if you can tell what the fuck is going on.

Because I bet you can't.

And this isn't an isolated incident in fighting games. Have you ever watched someone play COD:MW or MW2? The game is confusing enough, with the quick deaths, frantic pace, flash bangs, killstreaks, etc.

But then there are the menus.

Have you ever watched a true gamer creating his classes in between rounds? Even the most experience player has trouble following the actions of other people in the menus. That shit is out of control. Besides the complexity of the system in general, the need to constantly update your classes creates this artificial wall, which you CANNOT surmount without the technical ability to navigate menus. Granted it's why you have multiple classes, but passing while playing with casual players online or even split screen means having to struggle with the menu in the minute you have in the lobby. It's yet another way that the casual gamer is discouraged from entering into the Core audience.

Consider any game, since we here are mostly core gamers. Any one you play a lot. It can safely be assumed that you would have to explain the finer points of that game to any friends that aren't as hardcore as yourself. Smash brothers seems to have successfully bridged that gap, but with the addition of Brawl, Nintendo firmly declared their devotion to the casual market with the addition of "balancing" like the incredibly frustrating tripping.

Why is it that core gamers are relegated to a niche market? Games have become insanely popular, but without a middle ground, there cannot be a true general understanding of games among those not technologically inclined. Is it simply too difficult to create a game that has depth, without culling the casual gamers at the difficulty wall? Because it certainly isn't a curve.

I'm done ranting for now, I might add some later, but can anyone explain this to me?



Is this post awesome? Vote it up!

13

Those who have fapped:  falsenipple  


Post a comment! You can also post a photo below:

Comment with Facebook





Click connect and comment instantly!

Comment with Dtoid





New? SIGN UP - it takes 5 seconds

17 comments | showing # 1 to 17
prev next

Kinjiro's Avatar - Comment posted on 01/31/2011 19:45
Kinjiro
p.s. blaze blue, nuff said
DimmuJed's Avatar - Comment posted on 01/31/2011 20:48
DimmuJed
Man, I thought there was going to be porn here. And there isn't :(
falsenipple's Avatar - Comment posted on 01/31/2011 22:22
falsenipple
I can't explain why fighting games are designed the way that they are, but I can say that you have to either be extremely patient and friendly try teaching people something as deceptively complex as SFIV. Good luck.
Mike Moran's Avatar - Comment posted on 01/31/2011 23:46
Mike Moran
They're as complex as they are because that's what keeps them interesting. Sadly there's no real happy medium to make games like Street Fighter easier to play. The inputs are the way they are for a reason.
Kinjiro's Avatar - Comment posted on 02/01/2011 00:11
Kinjiro
DimmuJed, I considered it, but there's chilluns about.
BS3 Owner's Avatar - Comment posted on 02/01/2011 01:27
BS3 Owner
BlazBlue is enough...
I Mastered all the Guilty Gears (( Fighting Genre Ones )).
I thought, BlazBlue will be awesome! I was more like Duh!?!!??!

BTW then they couldn't play tournaments where skill is king.
The More Complicated. The More Skill Application is Needed.

But here's the thing.
The gamers that are NOT hardcore. Are more casual. Doh!
They would be confused because...

A.) Like it easy.
(( Term : Casual. IMO. ))

B.) Are LOST.
(( No Understanding of Game Genre's Mechanics. ))

C.) Don't like to spend Time Learning therefore = Abandonment.
(( ADHD or Lazy Gamers or Crave Instant Satisfaction. ))

D.) Don't have Experience Playing Many Modern Games.
(( Especially Genre Defining Ones. <--- Best way to Learn, from the best of the breed. Also, Possible "Next Gen Noob" ))
PlayHangman's Avatar - Comment posted on 02/01/2011 01:53
PlayHangman
What Wry Guy said.

I hear BlazBlu has a a good training mode though.

Is that true? They should incoporate those more often.

The only way I learned competence in Virtua Fighter was through 4's superb training mode. Before that, I barely knew my punches from my grabs.
Kinjiro's Avatar - Comment posted on 02/01/2011 03:24
Kinjiro
@wryguy
i would be willing to sacrifice a little complexity for a game i can get my non gamer friends to play. not an easy task, i admit, but games like naruto ultimate ninja storm or whatever kind of slide in there. smash bros, virtual on, shonen jump all stars are examples of middle difficulty fighting games. what about like nfl blitz, or tnmt; turtles in time, or most arcade games. what i'm really looking for is a game people can look at and go "that looks fun" instead of "that looks hard".

@playhangman

blazblu has an excellent tutorial/challenge setup, they that doesn't make the stick gymnastics any more reasonable.
bodybreak's Avatar - Comment posted on 02/01/2011 04:23
bodybreak
one acronym; DOTA.
seriously, my buddy tried to get me into it back in highschool -- holy shit. now there is a community full of elitist, unforgiving pricks. i finally gave up when i had to make my third account to evade banlists.
Roager's Avatar - Comment posted on 02/01/2011 13:05
Roager
@WryGuy: I'd argue that Smash is the middle ground, just as soon as I get back to writing that smash/traditional fighter blog series.

@bodybreak: DOTA, yes, but the DOTA genre is a bit more forgiving in LoL, I think. Sure, there's still some dickheads, but they can only yell at you, not banlist you or anything. Plus it's free. Hero balance is a little bit horrendous, though. HoN did a better job of that, but it's a tougher game.

@Blog: I know well the pain of trying to get non-fightans into fighters. Tough nightmare. As for the question at the end: because it's profitable. The market has a huge amount of new gamers. The hardcore is the minority. To stay in business, a lot of companies have to follow the money. And that tends to hurt us.
Lamadude64's Avatar - Comment posted on 02/01/2011 14:46
Lamadude64
I understand what you mean totally. I recently picked up SFIV and for the first 5 hours or so I was confused and out of my depth. I've recently started to become a teeny bit better, but I'm still pretty rubbish. One thing that really annoys me is seth in arcade mode. I'm on the easiest difficulty. It's my first playthrough. WHY PUNISH ME SO MUCH, SETH!? WHHHYYYY???

I'm totally pumped for MVC3, pre-ordered and everything, but i'm still scared that i'm going to pop it in for the first time and get my arse handed to me. Last week I downloaded MVC2, and I was totally overwhelmed. Having all of the characters unlocked really didn't help either. I could see Capcom's logic, but as a first time player, it was as intimidating as hell.

I can tell my first few days on 3 will be pree-ty brutal.
Kinjiro's Avatar - Comment posted on 02/01/2011 14:56
Kinjiro
@Lamadude

YES YES YES, A THOUSAND TIMES YES

every thing you said runs in parallel to what i was talking about.

fighting game bosses, STUPIDLY DIFFICULT, and then when you unlock the character, they suck more than something that sucks a lot
Wrenchfarm's Avatar - Comment posted on 02/01/2011 15:12
Wrenchfarm
Fighting games are complex because they are the result of 20 years of continual tweaking and development on the same idea. Each series and iteration in a series has to find some way to justify its existence so they add on more and more. I've played them since I was a wee little boy and SF2 hit the local pizza shack and I feel totally out of depth in today's fighting games. 1 frame links, option selects, input tricks, FADC stuff, Roman cancles, gaurd burst systems, and on and on.

In the end, playing a fighting game requires more committment and dedication than almost any other genre just to get to a level where you can actually appreciate the game let alone become a contender at it. I think that is what is really holding the genre back, there are simply easier and more enjoyable ways to spend your gaming time and dollar than taking up a second job of figuring out a fighting games little quirks.
grafkhun's Avatar - Comment posted on 02/01/2011 16:53
grafkhun
I agree, modern fighting games are overly complex, but that's why core gamers like them. I also do agree that the barrier of entry should be lowered, while still maintaining complexity, and that is where the problem lies. Anyways, thanks for posting this.
Mr Andy Dixon's Avatar - Comment posted on 02/01/2011 19:51
Mr Andy Dixon
I don't play fighting games, but it looks like you put a lot of work into this, so I might as well just fap my little ass off!
Moltar's Avatar - Comment posted on 02/02/2011 18:14
Moltar
Good post. The only fighting game my friends tend to play with me is Super Smash Bros. Perhaps Marvel vs Capcom 3 will be easier for non-hardcore fans to enjoy easily?
Kinjiro's Avatar - Comment posted on 03/24/2011 00:14
Kinjiro
after much time, the answer is yes
prev next

Comment with Facebook





Click connect and comment instantly!

Comment with Dtoid





New? SIGN UP - it takes 5 seconds

Comments policy

Destructoid is an open discussion community. You don't need to "audition" to post a comment - just speak your mind. We respect differing opinions on the site, so have at it. Be smart, funny, insightful, clueless, or cute -- but back it up with substance. Keep your cool, keep it fun. We only ask that you act respectfully and above all: don't be a troll and ruin it for everyone else. Don't bring down gamers or we'll, you know, gently shoot you in the face and stuff you into a flaming mailbox. Each comment is your opportuntity to make this community awesomer. Is that even a word?

Avoiding the banhammer only requires common sense: spamming, trolling, racism, NSFW stuff, and other forms of sucking will not be tolerated. If anyone is griefing please report abuse. Be good. Don't suck!