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Destructoid Reviews (Or How To Make An Enemy Out Of Aaron Linde)
JJ Rage | 4:07 AM on 12.02.2007 33 comments


Destructoid Reviews are serious business.


As I promised in comment #142 (a comment I was subsequently mocked for making), here I am blogging my little heart out about the Destructoid Reviews system.

Let me go ahead and list a few things I feel are worth knowing prior to reading the meat of the post:


1) I have read the manifesto.

2) I HAVE NOT played Naruto: Rise of the Ninja

3) I HAVE played Mass Effect

4) This post IS NOT meant to debate the numerical scores given to any game by a Destructoid reviewer

5) This post IS NOT meant to preach about how awesome Mass Effect is.

6) Finally, I DO have experience reviewing video games for a professional website. Back before GameBattles.com was purchased my Major League Gaming, we had a news and reviews channel. I was one of the first writers hired. I worked with about eight or so other writers. Out of those, two of them were what I would consider true gamers. I had to deal with a scale that included a perfect score for Ghost Recon 2: Summit Strike, and a 7.6 score for Devil May Cry 3, which was followed a week later by an 8.8 score for Star Wars Episode III: Revenge of the Sith. I clashed with my editor frequently, and as a result, I was tasked with reviewing such gems as Fantastic Four and the original Untold Legends for PSP. I was heavily criticized for giving glowing reviews to games like Psychonauts and Indigo Prophecy. I fought an uphill battle for two and a half years before MLG mercifully swooped in and purchased the site, which led to a redesign and the termination of our pathetic news and reviews section.



Now that I have all of that out of the way...


I didn't agree with the Mass Effect score. I did, however, agree with the most of the things written within the review. This is usually the same with most of Reverend Anthony's reviews. All the pretty words leave me in total agreement, but then I spot the score at the bottom of the page and an unnecessarily angry comment spews forth from my fingertips.

Now perhaps my gripe is not with the system, but with Rev's ability to turn negligible annoyances into massive, game-ruining flaws. But since the Destructoid scale is based on one of Rev's features, I believe I'm directing my opinions in the right place.

The first problem is the scale itself. I've never been a huge fan of the 1-10 scale, and I'm in agreement with Rev, for the most part, on the way it is most commonly used in the gaming media. However, my main gripe is that the 1-10 scale is too intricate. On the Dtoid Scale, a score of 3 is "Bad". A score of 4 is "Poor". These two words mean essentially the same thing. And let's be honest, very few of us are going to want to play a game considered bad or poor, no matter what numbers are associated with those descriptives. The same can be said for games that are "Awful" or "Unbearable". These are games you simply will not enjoy.

You enter that rental gray area when you hit the 5-8 range. The word "decent" is used to describe a game given a 6. A game that warrants a 7 is considered "Good". Again, these two words are incredibly similar in meaning. So much so that, in my opinion, they negate each other. A score of 6 and a score of 7 might as well be the same thing, especially when they're both branded with the "Rent It" icon.

But rather than attempting to redefine the 1-10 scale itself, a different or brand new scale could be used.

As I proposed in the comments of the Mass Effect review, an A-to-F grade scale could work. No "A+" or "C-" scores either. Here's what I propose:


A - BUY IT.
The best score a game can be given, period. A must-buy game. Recent Example: BioShock

B - Rent It First/Buy If You Must.
This score is given to a game that shouldn't be missed, but isn't necessarily a "Must Buy" title. It might not be worth the full retail price, but it is worth the $40 pre-played price at Gamestop. Recent Example: Mass Effect

C - Rent It
A game worth giving a look, but not worth owning. Recent Example: Assassin's Creed

D - Play At Your Own Risk
It's not bottom of the barrel, but it's damn close. Recent Example: Soldier of Fortune: Payback

F - DO NOT WANT
Don't play it. Don't even look at the fucking box. Recent Example: Two Worlds




This scale is nothing revolutionary, obviously. But it is more streamlined, which I feel is the way to go. Using this scale, Mass Effect and Naruto would be given the same score, while Assassin's Creed would be just a step below. The current 1-10 scale, there are a potential of 19 number scores (including the .5s). The grade scaled brings that number down to 5.

Yeah, we're all gamers. But in the end, our options when obtaining games (legally) are the same: Rent or Buy. The only other option is to not play them at all. 19 score options is too many.


I know Linde mentioned that it's not currently possible to have multiple staff review a game, but perhaps a community rating system could be implemented, similar to other sites.



Any and all feedback is welcome. I know Linde was at least a little pissed at my unfairly harsh statements about the manifesto, and after having some time to calm down and think about it all, I felt this would be a more productive use of my emotions.



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32 comments | showing # 1 to 32
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Aaron Mxy Yost's Avatar - Comment posted on 12/02/2007 04:19
Aaron Mxy Yost
Community rating systems nearly always fail though, because you get hordes of fanboys/haters ranking a game 10 or 1 just to try to skew the score.

And just ignore the numbers, read the text, and either agree or disagree to your heart's content.
Atlas's Avatar - Comment posted on 12/02/2007 04:22
Atlas
Bioshock shouldn't be on "buy". Little replay value, decent length game, I don't regret buying it but I can see many who would regret it.

Also I had fun with Two Worlds. Completely breaking the game I somehow skipped most of the main quest, killed everything in one hit, and tried the horrendous multiplayer. I would not recommend a rental, but for some reason I still had fun with it, before I returned it to Blockbuster.

Also Mass Effect is a buy. That game is awesome, too many haters!
xper's Avatar - Comment posted on 12/02/2007 04:23
xper
let the comments beging...

how about taking away the ridiculous words following the number? i hate these "rent it" "buy it" scores that are just playing into the whole notion of games not being art. its hurting the industry and should not be implemented. we ten to see games as products because of this system.

i do however agree with the scale above. an a-f scale or 5-1 scale is much more valid than the dated and "evil" 10-1 scale. but i don't condone anyone for using the 10 scale. its in the eye of the beholder isn't it? i think a lot of the argument against the 10 scale has to be taken with a grain of salt. if the industry had the 5 scale we would probably have this discussion about that rating system and propose a new 10 scale to ease it up.

i'm just saying
JJ Rage's Avatar - Comment posted on 12/02/2007 04:23
JJ Rage
I bought Mass Effect, and I don't regret doing so, but Bioshock has more mass appeal and less flaws.
EternalDeathSlayer's Avatar - Comment posted on 12/02/2007 04:27
EternalDeathSlayer
BioShock is also easy as fucking hell. JJ, is Mass Effect challenging in anyway? Cause BioShock was the easiest game ever with it's never game over VitaChambers. Thank God for the DLC
xper's Avatar - Comment posted on 12/02/2007 04:28
xper
also, i can't spell for shit today
JJ Rage's Avatar - Comment posted on 12/02/2007 04:31
JJ Rage
@xper

I'm not sure how the "Rent It/Buy It" thing affects the notion of games as art. I don't think anyone would disagree that games are art, but buying and renting are the only two methods of enjoying said art.

The primary reason most people read reviews is too find out if a game is worth spending money on, and how much money they should be spending on it.
Atlas's Avatar - Comment posted on 12/02/2007 04:32
Atlas
Dying in Mass Effect is probably the opposite of Bioshock. Losing 2 god damned hours of playtime because the autosave doesn't get used enough is so annoying.

I actually liked vita-chambers in Bioshock.

Still, with all it's flaws I like Mass Effect more.
JJ Rage's Avatar - Comment posted on 12/02/2007 04:35
JJ Rage
@Eternal

I personally would consider Mass Effect a "Buy It" title. I put it as an example for "B" because that's where the Dtoid scale would likely have it.
Darren Nakamura's Avatar - Comment posted on 12/02/2007 04:35
Darren Nakamura
I have long since been a proponent of the five point rating scale. Rather than letter grades, I usually just say that all we need is one to five, with no decimals. It comes back to the same thing. Either way, I don't get why you're making such a big deal out of this. Like Mxy said, just ignore the numbers they're giving them, and read the text (which I know you already do).
Variable Gear's Avatar - Comment posted on 12/02/2007 04:36
Variable Gear
@ xper:

I'm not trying to be a dick, and I'm going to sound like anyway...but here goes: GAMES ARE PRODUCTS!

However, you are right that we as the gaming community aren't ever happy about the review score format.
JJ Rage's Avatar - Comment posted on 12/02/2007 04:38
JJ Rage
@Dexter

It's not a huge deal, certainly not going to lose sleep about it. But I do think there are better ways to review games, and I know there are people out there that agree.

Every review seems to lead to a backlash. I'm sure the reviewers here probably don't care THAT much, but it would still be nice to see a review without massive flaming of the reviewer. Even I'm a little guilty of that...
GrayFox's Avatar - Comment posted on 12/02/2007 04:38
GrayFox
What did you think of Sterling's review? ahaha
Atlas's Avatar - Comment posted on 12/02/2007 04:39
Atlas
I think we should give games ratings down to the hundredth decimal point. For example Gears of War is a 94.361 out of 100.000

DUDE, Gears of War is totally a 94.389!

NO! It is a 94.361! Didn't you see the visual glitch in act 4?

Still, a 94.361? It should be atleast 94.568!
xper's Avatar - Comment posted on 12/02/2007 04:42
xper
hahaha obviously disagreements here...

if you think games are more products than they are art, thats an equally valid point as mine. i just hope we go in the other direction in the future.

and buying and renting something is based on value. what is value to you? i am flawed with too much emotions, so when a game touches me, like bioshock or mass effect, i tend to love it despite their flaws. even if the game is utter shit, but gives me emotional attachment to the game, who's to say i should buy it rent it? i don't go "hey you shouldn't buy radioheads new album because its only 50min long, has some sloppy guitar parts and i hate that fucking voice".

am i making any sense?
Atlas's Avatar - Comment posted on 12/02/2007 04:45
Atlas
More sense than I ever will!

And the foot goes in the mouth, dance to the wallpaper glass shoes!

Watch out for your womanfolk, the treason of horns grows old...
Arugala9's Avatar - Comment posted on 12/02/2007 04:56
Arugala9
Mass Effect is a buy, Bioshock is a pick it up cheap/rent.
Aaron Mxy Yost's Avatar - Comment posted on 12/02/2007 05:06
Aaron Mxy Yost
An A-F or 1-5 scale is the same as a 1-10 scale, except it allows for fewer levels of distinction. Is that honestly a good thing? And who is to say the 5 point scales wouldn't also include .5 or even .25 increments? Then you're back to the same problem. People are always going to bitch about the review scores. Even if you take away the numbers, they'll start bitching about the details of the text. This problem will never go away.

The Buy it! Rent it! thing is also subjective, a game could be fantastic in it's genre, but might not appeal to every gamer. It shouldn't be directly related to the score. Hence Nex giving COD4 a high score but suggesting readers to rent it first.
xper's Avatar - Comment posted on 12/02/2007 05:30
xper
@mxyzptlk

i tell you this...

keep the rating system in whatever form you want. i believe a 5 scale is better, but, like you said, its essentially the same thing. don't stop the numbers and don't stop the reviews because we bitch about them all the time. we're assholes, i know. but we love you
EternalDeathSlayer's Avatar - Comment posted on 12/02/2007 05:40
EternalDeathSlayer
I agree, if you're gonna use numbers, go with 1 to 10. It gives you more choices. A 3 out of 5 = a 60 pretty much. With 1 to 10, you're able to give a game a 70 that it deserves instead of having to choose between a 60 or 80, which would sort of be misleading.
Eschatos's Avatar - Comment posted on 12/02/2007 08:52
Eschatos
That's a pretty good idea, but I'm fine with the way it is.
falinter's Avatar - Comment posted on 12/02/2007 10:01
falinter
I say FUCK IT
Because when you are satisfied with it I will not be.

What I do is read the end of the review here and the rent it or buy it part. Then play the demo. If it is deemed worthy I buy it. Or continue to peruse the internet for more game play/reviews.

We can't perfect the review system here so just leave it the way it is and find the perfect way for YOURSELF to find out weather a game is worth buying.
Pangloss's Avatar - Comment posted on 12/02/2007 11:48
Pangloss
The absolutely most important thing to remember when reading any review is that what you are reading is not objective fact (I am not calling the reviewers in question liars or wrong, mind you), you are simply reading an opinion. That dude/lady that wrote the review is not you, nor even most people.

Reviews are quite simply this: one person's opinion upon playing the game. If Rev reviews Twilight Princess and declares it a rental, there is absolutely nothing stopping you from buying it and loving it. Conversely, just because Sir Sterling declared Bladestorm the best thing since sliced bread doesn't mean that you should give two shits about it.

tl;dr: There's really no point in getting all pissy about what Bolt Vanderhuge on cashwh0re.com thought about Mega Man X-12 Double-Remix: The Next One.
frozenbabylon's Avatar - Comment posted on 12/02/2007 11:58
frozenbabylon
I like your ideas and wish to subscribe to your news letter.
Aaron Linde's Avatar - Comment posted on 12/02/2007 12:56
Aaron Linde
Your statements about the manifesto weren't harsh, that wasn't what pissed me off. It was that the idea that reviews of Naruto and Mass Effect ought to be directly compared -- they shouldn't. And claiming otherwise does make our reviews look shitty, because yeah -- who in their right mind would say that Naruto is better than Mass Effect? But I'm not about to tell Dale to push his score down, or Anthony to push his score up, just because there's an incongruence in scores.

As we've said several hundred times, we can't ditch the scores. But being that we've publicly hated on CNET (and, by extension, Metacritic) for a couple of days now, that might change. And if it does and Niero gives me the heads up, rest assured that the first order of business will be striking every form of review metrics, because I'd like to believe that our readers are smart enough to walk away from a review with a complete impression of our perspective on a game without a number, a graphic, or a grade to guide their way. That's what I've always wanted our reviews to be, and I've made the argument to Niero several times -- in the end, though, it all came down to traffic.

So we'll see what happens. But what you're proposing is just as inherently flawed as a numerical grading scale, and will get us in the same heaps of trouble with asshats that don't agree with whatever score we assign a game. The best solution would be to get rid of all of 'em. But until I'm able to do that, we're at least making steps towards molding the 1-10 numerical grade into something that we at least don't hate using because we've established our standards and try our best to ensure that the score matches the text.

That's a whole lot of text to say that we're either going with the current system or abandoning it altogether. I'm not going halfway.
ZekeThePlumber's Avatar - Comment posted on 12/02/2007 14:05
ZekeThePlumber
See the way I see things the letter grade is simply the same thing as the standard 7-10 scale without the ambiguity of the missing 1 through 7. However it a much better representation of the review system since its the same way we were graded in the education system, obviously leaving out the "degree of failure" reserved for the 1-7 scale. Since we know most games don't inherently suck, seeing games score below 7 is a rarity.

My only gripe with Destructoid, while I commend them for going against the seemingly unnecessary 7-10, is that while our reviewers maintain a 1-10 scale that doesn't conform to the method of reviews where we want to be recognized, as outlined in the manifesto. If we wanted to get on Metacritic or Gamerankings, why use the Dtoid 1-10 scale with 5 being average and thus purposely skew game reviews to lower what they should be?

I understand that, yes the staff wants to be sent games to review and need to use some standard to be recognized by publishers, but Dtoid isn't a review site. Dare I say it, but Kotaku and Joystiq don't confine themselves to such standards but still get sent material for review, why does Dtoid need to subject itself to the system instead?
Aaron Linde's Avatar - Comment posted on 12/02/2007 14:40
Aaron Linde
We don't review games because we want to be sent games. We review games because we want to review games.
ZekeThePlumber's Avatar - Comment posted on 12/02/2007 15:12
ZekeThePlumber
See the way I see things the letter grade is simply the same thing as the standard 7-10 scale without the ambiguity of the missing 1 through 7. However it a much better representation of the review system since its the same way we were graded in the education system, obviously leaving out the "degree of failure" reserved for the 1-7 scale. Since we know most games don't inherently suck, seeing games score below 7 is a rarity.

My only gripe with Destructoid, while I commend them for going against the seemingly unnecessary 7-10, is that while our reviewers maintain a 1-10 scale that doesn't conform to the method of reviews where we want to be recognized, as outlined in the manifesto. If we wanted to get on Metacritic or Gamerankings, why use the Dtoid 1-10 scale with 5 being average and thus purposely skew game reviews to lower what they should be?

/Alright fixed...

Still unless someone knows about Dtoid's manifesto when they first come to the site and see a review with a score of X/10 they're automatically going to think of it as a scale of Fail-7-10 score range. All the current review scheme does is incite flaming and negative feedback, what's the point?
Aaron Linde's Avatar - Comment posted on 12/02/2007 16:57
Aaron Linde
Niero insisted that we used the scale, so we used the scale the way it made sense to us, not how it's commonly abused everywhere else. We do things differently around here, even if we have to stick to some conventions that we disagree with.
JJ Rage's Avatar - Comment posted on 12/02/2007 18:06
JJ Rage
Linde, I'm in total agreement about the numerical scale. I hate it. As a writer, I hated putting my hard work and effort into a review, only to be forced to some up a page worth of words with an arbitrary number.

When it comes to review scales, I prefer the 1-4 or 1-5 scale, and so that's the proposal I came up with.

The words are what matter. Either the game sounds like something you'll enjoy, or it sounds like something you should avoid. I wouldn't mind seeing the "Rent it/Buy It" graphic stick around, but if the number scaled was abandoned completely, I'd be as happy as anyone.
JJ Rage's Avatar - Comment posted on 12/02/2007 18:09
JJ Rage
I might add that the only reason I acted so adamant was because I am very fond of this site. Destructoid has transcended blogs and the gaming media as a whole into a part of our culture. It's in a class of it's own, and the reviews should be the same. Everyone uses number/grade scales, which is a great reason why Dtoid shouldn't.
Aaron Linde's Avatar - Comment posted on 12/02/2007 18:53
Aaron Linde
I'm working on it, stay tuned. Maybe something good can come of all of this Gerstmania (har har) after all.
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