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when i saw that scene in shadow complex of him doing the super run, is a blatant rip off of the speed boots in super metroid. kinda put a bad taste in my mouth. i still would like to try the game but if alot of it is just reimaged metroid stuff then it doesnt seem as cool as it did before. what other moves did they rip off? is there a wave beam gun or an ice gun? how about missiles that open doors?
also i still have my secret of mana poster from my nintendo power as well!
also i still have my secret of mana poster from my nintendo power as well!
"Now I love Symphony of the night as much as the next guy, no doubt it's some hot shit, but the fact remains that it blatantly copied the Super Metroid 2.5D formula without bringing anything new to the table."
Melee attacks?
Melee attacks?
@Das Inchworm: Cheers!
@Tha Meat: Boooo!
@Fetusmilk: Yeah, it's funny you should say that cuz I've read there's a foam gun upgrade or something that is identical to the ice gun in Metroid!!!! I can't even imagine how that would work within the framework of the realistic(ish) art style they've gone for, but, meh, whatever...
@Justin: Melee attacks!? I assume you mean that you kill enemies with daggers and shit as opposed to the gun. I dunno; I just don't think that moves the genre forward in any meaningful way
@Tha Meat: Boooo!
@Fetusmilk: Yeah, it's funny you should say that cuz I've read there's a foam gun upgrade or something that is identical to the ice gun in Metroid!!!! I can't even imagine how that would work within the framework of the realistic(ish) art style they've gone for, but, meh, whatever...
@Justin: Melee attacks!? I assume you mean that you kill enemies with daggers and shit as opposed to the gun. I dunno; I just don't think that moves the genre forward in any meaningful way
Oh,and yeah I still got my Secret of Mana poster! Makes me all misty eyed thinkin of the days when you got a paper world map and 50 page manual when you invested in an RPG...
Bravo! Bravo!
Personally, I've always thought the Metroid-Style Castlevania games were never as well designed as the 2D Metroid games (they've never been better than even Metroid 1).
My only real guess at SOTN getting the credit over/with Metroid is that Metroid was off the scene after the SNES (and it got released midway in the console's lifespan and against DKC)) while SOTN got released on the still young PlayStation (thus got more word-of-mouth sales and recognition).
Personally, I've always thought the Metroid-Style Castlevania games were never as well designed as the 2D Metroid games (they've never been better than even Metroid 1).
My only real guess at SOTN getting the credit over/with Metroid is that Metroid was off the scene after the SNES (and it got released midway in the console's lifespan and against DKC)) while SOTN got released on the still young PlayStation (thus got more word-of-mouth sales and recognition).
i actually have a couple of the posters from old nintendo powers. like the 50th issue one with all the covers on it etc. one of my favs was the river city ransom world map poster. that was so cool looking. also the zelda maps and stuff. i need to see if my parents threw out all my mags. i have tons of old gamepros , EGM's and game informers from when funco land was still around
@Fistfuloawesome:I also think the ridiculously small print run/inflated ebay prices did a lot for its 'legendary' status, at least here in the UK anyway
@Fetusmilk: Damn don't remind me!!! When they moved house a few years back my parents, without warning, threw out ALL my game mags, defo one of the lowest points of my life...
@Zpoope: Check out Orioto's profile at deviantart, definitely some unbelievably awesome work
@Fetusmilk: Damn don't remind me!!! When they moved house a few years back my parents, without warning, threw out ALL my game mags, defo one of the lowest points of my life...
@Zpoope: Check out Orioto's profile at deviantart, definitely some unbelievably awesome work
when you search his name a picture of his face should come up amongst some others, click on that and then click on his gallery on the left of the screen thats where you'll find all that good stuff.
It seems (based on your sidebar images) that we have very similar tastes in games, so it saddens me that I must disagree with you so emphatically.
Symphony added plenty of elements that I feel advanced the genre, which could collectively be referred to as "RPG elements". Sure, in SM you got more energy tanks, but in SotN you can actually level up with experience points, use items from an inventory, equip a myriad of weapons that affect your stats in positive and negative ways, etc.
This is what made the genre initially appealing to me (I played SM before I played SotN and it couldn't keep my attention, though I've since gone back and played and loved it), so those are 'significant improvements', for me at least.
Symphony added plenty of elements that I feel advanced the genre, which could collectively be referred to as "RPG elements". Sure, in SM you got more energy tanks, but in SotN you can actually level up with experience points, use items from an inventory, equip a myriad of weapons that affect your stats in positive and negative ways, etc.
This is what made the genre initially appealing to me (I played SM before I played SotN and it couldn't keep my attention, though I've since gone back and played and loved it), so those are 'significant improvements', for me at least.
All constructive criticism is welcome my friend!
I was wondering if anyone would actually pull me up on this! SOTN's rpg element.
OK my problem with this is that there doesn't seem to be any need for it; in that, it just seems to be a way of expressing numerically what SM expressed in real world terms i.e. you gradually become a fucking badass! (To the point where, in the GBA games, I had to wonder if the power ups I'd acquired were meant for some other more challenging game!)
Again don't get me wrong, I found the rpg element at the very least intriguing (and I do love me some leveling up!), however I find the experience of getting more powerful in Metroid more organic and ultimately more viscerally satisfying than the sensation of 'grinding' you get in modern Castlevanias. It's almost a step backwards in that it shows in an 'explicit numerical' way what Metroid presents in a more subtle manner.
But yeah, if Shadow Complex is the latest evolution of the genre and it saw fit to hold onto the leveling mechanic then what do I know! It's definitely the biggest thing SOTN brought to the table, but was it really necessary...
I was wondering if anyone would actually pull me up on this! SOTN's rpg element.
OK my problem with this is that there doesn't seem to be any need for it; in that, it just seems to be a way of expressing numerically what SM expressed in real world terms i.e. you gradually become a fucking badass! (To the point where, in the GBA games, I had to wonder if the power ups I'd acquired were meant for some other more challenging game!)
Again don't get me wrong, I found the rpg element at the very least intriguing (and I do love me some leveling up!), however I find the experience of getting more powerful in Metroid more organic and ultimately more viscerally satisfying than the sensation of 'grinding' you get in modern Castlevanias. It's almost a step backwards in that it shows in an 'explicit numerical' way what Metroid presents in a more subtle manner.
But yeah, if Shadow Complex is the latest evolution of the genre and it saw fit to hold onto the leveling mechanic then what do I know! It's definitely the biggest thing SOTN brought to the table, but was it really necessary...
I never liked the RPG elements that SOTN and its sequels had.
Potions just mean stop the gameplay for 15 seconds to give yourself a health/mana up or status cleansing. I don't want to look at a menu, I want to play the game. If I wanted to look at menu's I'd play RPG's.
The level-up I'll leave to HuttyLoca's explanation.
The weapons/armor just mirror my problems with such a system in regular RPG's: You get a new set every half-hour that's better than your old set. There are some aberrations (like the Tonfas or Knuckles), but there's no real reason not to stick with your most recent better weapon (small swords usually).
Also, there is usually no difference between the same style weapons. The Small Sword at the beggining of the game basically works the same as the small sword near the end of the game. There are minor differences such as speed and a mostly-for-show special move and/or property, but nothing that will change the recent=best bit I mentioned.
Status Ailments are an annoyance too. Poison is okay (it doesn't affect the gameplay, just drains your health for a while), but I hate Stone and Curse. All those to me mean is "You don't get to play for X seconds".
I don't think SOTN and its brethren would have been worse off without the RPG elements.
Potions just mean stop the gameplay for 15 seconds to give yourself a health/mana up or status cleansing. I don't want to look at a menu, I want to play the game. If I wanted to look at menu's I'd play RPG's.
The level-up I'll leave to HuttyLoca's explanation.
The weapons/armor just mirror my problems with such a system in regular RPG's: You get a new set every half-hour that's better than your old set. There are some aberrations (like the Tonfas or Knuckles), but there's no real reason not to stick with your most recent better weapon (small swords usually).
Also, there is usually no difference between the same style weapons. The Small Sword at the beggining of the game basically works the same as the small sword near the end of the game. There are minor differences such as speed and a mostly-for-show special move and/or property, but nothing that will change the recent=best bit I mentioned.
Status Ailments are an annoyance too. Poison is okay (it doesn't affect the gameplay, just drains your health for a while), but I hate Stone and Curse. All those to me mean is "You don't get to play for X seconds".
I don't think SOTN and its brethren would have been worse off without the RPG elements.
That's fair enough. Nobody likes exactly the same things from their games, or else we wouldn't have need for different genres (or discussions like this).
For my part, I loved the RPG elements in SotN, but if you guys didn't, that's your prerogative :)
For my part, I loved the RPG elements in SotN, but if you guys didn't, that's your prerogative :)
Dude, don't feel like we're railroading ya! I truly welcome your views to the discussion :0)
I too enjoyed the RPG element, I don't dislike SOTN but I gotta go 100% with fistfuloawesome when he said Castlevania wouldn't be worse off without it and let me say why:
In retrospect, I can't help but feel that the beauty of Metroid (and to a certain extent Zelda but that's definitely a different discussion!) is that it empowers you in the way an RPG does, without actually being an RPG. The link to traditional RPG's has always been there and it seems too obvious and almost like a step backwards rather than an evolution, to add those elements into the game/genre.
I too enjoyed the RPG element, I don't dislike SOTN but I gotta go 100% with fistfuloawesome when he said Castlevania wouldn't be worse off without it and let me say why:
In retrospect, I can't help but feel that the beauty of Metroid (and to a certain extent Zelda but that's definitely a different discussion!) is that it empowers you in the way an RPG does, without actually being an RPG. The link to traditional RPG's has always been there and it seems too obvious and almost like a step backwards rather than an evolution, to add those elements into the game/genre.
