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This started off as comment to Yojimbo's post regarding the controversy over the header pic on this front page story. Obviously it was much too long for a comment, and I doubt few will read through it even as a blog. But I hope that you'll read it through to the end before throwing in comments on either side of the debate.
I want to point out a couple of things. First, Rev. Anthony's avatar had nothing to do with this photo. It was a cap of Takeshi Kitano (a Japanese man not Vietnamese, and one of my biggest heroes, incidentally) from the film Sonatine. (I had incorrectly put Hana-Bi originally, which Takeshi corrected me on. Whoops. The bizarre bit being that Sonatine is my favorite Takeshi film. Director idol fail!) Also he was shooting himself in the head. Second, the guy in the photo isn't about to be shot. It's not about violence looming in the future. He is dying as that shutter is closing. There's no exit wound yet because the bullet hasn't exited his skull yet. It's much more disturbing than simply a man about to die or even being dead. We've seen dead bodies. But it's rare to see an actual person losing his/her life. I'm actually a little shocked by some of these comments. The ones referencing the offended as whiners/sissies/babies. It really shows how far towards desensitization we have come in this world. What these people are saying is that violent death happens, so we should be subjected to it at every part of our lives, and if someone resists then they are in denial. If a person gets offended by that image it is because some people put a value on human life. That photo was not from a videogame. That is a person who was alive when the button on the camera's button was pressed and was lifeless before the shutter reopened. Not everyone is so terribly desensitized/unempathetic. But, I haven't heard from any offended people in this forum. So, you're not even speaking to the people commenting here. The dissenters are those who are saying that the use of the photo was in bad taste. The argument has been made that killing and death will be portrayed in the game. But fake deaths by data and computer generated images. And just because an event is portrayed in a game, is it a good idea to display it's real-life equivalent when talking about the game? I'm currently replaying God of War. This topic reminds me that I had to kill hundreds of little puppies before they transformed into giant demon dogs. As such, would it have been okay to show real photos of puppies that were abused and beaten to death; broken and torn apart? Is that not bad taste? Those that are claiming the use of the header photo was in bad taste, are saying that it's use serves no purpose other than to shock. The article does not discuss the horrors of war. It does not touch upon violence at all. Nothing about it was relevent at all to subject matter. The point of the article was to talk about the rumor of a videogame's setting and that there was a casting call. There was no specific relation that would warrant the use of such a affecting photo. A few have said since that the point of it must have been to promote discussion about the horrors of war. That's a weak argument considering that it was never brought up in the text. If we're to applaud someone for being so bold as to talk about these issues, than those to be applauded should be the "sissies/whiners/babies" who brought to the attention that this photo's use was controversial. Finally, the bitterness toward Destructoid over what is being portrayed as "censorship", I also wish to tackle that. The photo was changed. That wasn't censorship. It was a judgement call. I'm sure that the editors discussed this matter and took the views of all involved into view. They did what they thought was responsible. I know for a fact that if that photo were relevent the context of the article it would still be attached to it as we speak. The Destructoid editorial crew are amazing when it concerns the free-speech of the editors and the community. I've talked to the head robot himself about his concerns regarding free speech and the community. I know that it is not a matter he takes lightly. That Yojimbo's article still stands untouched at this very moment, every photo intact, is a testament to that very fact. I'm sure that the question was reaised, the community's arguments on both sides were taken into account, and that Matt had the deciding vote on what to do with photo in the end. The offended people were able to have their say. It was taken into consideration. A decision was made based upon the facts of the event. This was true Freedon of Speech at work. Not censorship at all. Since I've long since crossed the tl;dr divide, I'll put this comment (now blog) out of it's misery. I'll leave simply reaffirming that I was not offended by the pic. My initial thoughts were "Really?!" and I would have just left them there and moved on. The only thin that I was offended by was the cries of a few desensitized people who feel the need to push their views of the value of a human life onto others and insult them while doing it. I've never been a fan of intolerance. And in this case, it really makes you wonder what a life playing games can do to you.
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My perception of that photo has changed alot over the last few hours. I had no idea it was a death in progress, nor just how quick the capture was. But one thing that absolutely hasn't changed for me is what the photo means as a symbol of war. In that, and considering how ugly and raw my perception of the Vietnam War is, to mention the conflict is to evoke that image. And certainly a wealth of others: stills from Full Metal Jacket, Forrest Gump, Platoon, a handful of bad action movies set in that war and even a host of reportedly subpar and indelicate games on the matter.
Is that me being densitized to war/violence/etc? I don't think so. Possibly. But to reject any of that iconography in reference to Vietnam seemed to me to be more of a disservice to the gravity of the thing. Mixed with a dash of "inappropriate for just a game" (paraphrasing from comments), and that really pushed a button for me.
I see your point, and I really understand it. The image has become a psrt of the public consciousness that it can and has to a certain extent lost it's potency. When someone can look at it and not see its subject, but simply its iconography, is only worsened when it's not considered before it gets juxtaposed. In that sense, many of us (my self included) have become desensitized to that particular image to an extent. I wouldn't have found need to comment on it at all had not J1mb0 found it important enough to write about. If a friend puts forth the effort to write something, it's important enough for me to read it and consider it even if I disagree. But it's the only thing that gave me reason to consider any of this in the first place. Otherwise, my initial reaction of "that was a bad idea" would've lasted a split second and I would have just forgot all about it.
From there it's the person that refuses to allow people to have opposing opinions without attacking them for it that really turns my points-of-view into convictions. None of that was you by a long shot.
Am I to assume that those who weren't offended don't put value on human life? That's a bit dramatic Jason. Even though I didn't openly chastise the offended, Am I desensitized as well? You state:
The only thing that I was offended by were the cries of a few desensitized people who feel the need to push their views of the value of a human life onto others and insult them while doing it.
One could argue that the ones who didn't get offended, didn't see anything wrong with the header, couldn't comprehend the hoopla and outrage of those that did. Does that make them these "desensitized people" who put no value in human life? Perhaps they felt the offended were pushing their views on them? Over something that in their minds seemed harmless. Couldn't it just have been about something as mundane as that? Name calling is never the path to getting anybody to understand your position, this is true, but that works both ways.
There are always two sides to everything. One shouldn't be held to a higher pedigree over the other because they're more political correct.
Otherwise, just musing. :D
I won't lie. I never really felt it was an issue until someone made it an issue. I'm not saying I approved of it nor am I saying that such images should be used. All I am saying, is that I never really had an opinion or feelings about it until a frenzy was created it. I suppose I just overlooked the context of the image to focus on what I come to Destructoid to do - read an article.
With that said, I do agree that it wasn't the best picked image. I too feel that a picture like that would have been appropriate if the article was more on topic with it such as explaining the horrors of war or investigating the amount of realistic violence in games. But to use it as an image just because of a game's announcement does feel poor in taste. As Haxan explained, just because an event like that may be digitally represented in a game doesn't mean a real world equivalent is acceptable.
Though I will say that I feel that some people did overreact. While I understand being offended for a variety of reasons, I don't believe that is an excuse to become unruly - have some decency people.
While I don't know if Matt has mentioned why he used the picture... While I don't know who had the final word in choosing to change the image... I can say this much: proper action took place. The "offensive" photo has been removed and replaced with something that is not only tasteful but also on topic with the text. I believe it's time for everyone to do what I did in the very beginning. Move on.
Douchebag
I'm sorry, you must of been under the impression my prior comment was addressed to you. It wasn't. It was regarding Jason's post.
@Birthmark Destructor: "Gets upset with that image" is a really simplistic way to even explain Haxan's position. Do you even understand what he's saying? He's saying it's grossly out of context. He's not saying that he's not man enough to watch death, he's merely saying that he doesn't enjoy watching it when there's not even a relevant reason to. So what are you saying exactly, you have to enjoy, or be totally unaffected by grotesque violence to be a man today? Because, if there is no contextual reason to use the picture in that article, then the only remaining reason is that you actually enjoy it, which is kind of sick.
One could argue that the ones who didn't get offended, didn't see anything wrong with the header, couldn't comprehend the hoopla and outrage of those that did.
One could argue it, sure, but they would be wrong to do it using the quote you cite in it's proper contexts. If you look at the first two paragraphs, you can easily see that I'm specifically speaking of the intolerant ones.
Taken on its own, it is a good point. But you're already championing the reverse side of folks like our mutual friend Birthmark Destructor. Somebody needs to lead the opposition and bring balance to this here force. (Fuck. I just made a prequel reference.) Besides, Snaileb's the only name-caller on my side and he's says that he's just calling you out in general. I'll leave it between the two of you to sort that out.
In all seriousness, you certainly have a point about the pendulum swinging both ways. I just want to reiterate that my involvement was to present the opposing viewpoint with a bit of clarity. You have to admit that its backers have been far far less inflamatory as a whole with their comments.
Am I to assume that those who weren't offended don't put value on human life? That's a bit dramatic Jason.
Sure, it is dramatic. But it's dramatic by the way you're cherry-picking your interpretation. I didn't pigeon-hole everybody into that category. If you read everything that I wrote in it's proper context you'd see that I not speaking of EVERY person who didn't take offense. Further, you'd see that I myself was not offended. It's there in the last paragraph. You're overdramatizing, sir.
I don't necessarily feel like this has to do with what is and isn't politically correct. It's simply having a bit of consideration for other people. You'll not hear (read) me calling names here. We're all expressing points of view. Except those few that are spewing the harsh words, but I bet they're the same 14 year-olds calling everyone a "fag" over Xbox Live. I think that sticking politics as the label is making a general discussion much too pointed. This has nothing to do with my political views.
I also tried to type "yojimbo is awesome" but it auto corrected awesome for douchebag.
You're sooooo tough. I bet you could pull the trigger yourself and not even mind, right? At least, that's what you want all the other 12 year olds to believe. And only a kid could believe something so stupid.
This discussion between you and Jimbo is an excellent display of the great people here on Dtoid. Not everybody is great though. Some of the comments made in favour of that photo were outrageous. I agree with both you and Jimbo. Your blogs, one in favour and one against, cancel each other out perfectly. So finally we're left with the comment Matthew made, stating why he actually posted that pic.
On a side-note. I wonder how many of the people offended by the pic are going to play the game. It would be interesting to know if they are still offended by it or have changed their opinion after playing the game. Not that it really matters but I'm curious about what the game will do to them because I bet it will be a gut wrenching game. If the devs portray the war in Vietnam like it actually was.
@Snaileb.
Not only was I trying to correct you, I actually did it. Thanks for the compliment, I am pretty cool sometimes. Not as cool as you though. Calling somebody a douchebag without backing it up is the most awesome thing I've ever seen.
Same. As far as the debate goes I feel like the critics of the picture have the stronger argument. But, and call me what you want, I'm a bigger fan of accommodation than toleration. I know sometimes people need to tolerate things and suck it up but I don't think it should be done when it's not necessary. In this case it wasn't. All Razak had to do was take the picture down and he did.
Yet another controversy filled weekend at Destructoid.
Also, Takeshi is awesome.
I agree entirely regarding the "censorship"... the fact that nobody's comments were deleted/changed, that other blogs on this topic with pictures weren't touched - this shows the freedom we are allowed on Destructoid and the lack of censorship. I also have the highest respect for Matt for making the decision to change the header picture - whatever his reason.
Oh... and I fall into this camp:
"Those that are claiming the use of the header photo was in bad taste, are saying that it's use serves no purpose other than to shock. The article does not discuss the horrors of war. It does not touch upon violence at all. Nothing about it was relevent at all to subject matter. The point of the article was to talk about the rumor of a videogame's setting and that there was a casting call. There was no specific relation that would warrant the use of such a affecting photo. "
... though I don't think that the reason was "to shock", I think he honestly used the photo as an image simply representative of the war.
Meh... I didn't even read the article in question until the issues regarding the header came up in the c-blogs. I read the c-blogging section far more often than I read the front page. In all honesty, the topic of whether real pictures of human atrocities should be used and how/when they should be used is actually a more interesting topic than the rumour of the next COD game.
I'm not "offended" by the use of the picture, but I definitely think that it's use was in poor taste - and I still think that.
What Jonathan Holmes said.
The glorification of war is often depicted in North American videogames and while their intentions might be genuine in showing the heroism and sacrifice the men and women had to go through it's way more offending to see a company like Activision trying to make one of the most contreversial war in recent history has an enjoyable experience.
I personaly think that the Vietnam war should be left alone and never be transposed into a franchise such as Call of Duty.
I admit I was on the verge of saying things that may have got me banned. I got a little angry with the people who were upset by the use of the photo.
Why? I'm not really sure. I thought about it a little today.
I guess it's because I felt like those people were telling Matt he couldn't do something. That's not the case. He could have kept it up.
I was surprised that he used the image, but I was more surprised at the complaints. I felt like people were being too sensitive.
I realize that games are very very far away from real life, but I guess people should really think about what they're playing.
I know that doesn't have much to do with the actual article, so perhaps it was "bad taste." I still don't think he should have taken it down. And I can't pretend to care about the people who were upset.