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Great blog! (The fap button appears to be broken, otherwise I'd show you the love.)
I can't tell you how many times I've been in a Live game of L4D and seen two of my teammates (normally split-screeners) run as fast as they can ahead of the group like it's a fucking race.
I can't tell you how many times I've been in a Live game of L4D and seen two of my teammates (normally split-screeners) run as fast as they can ahead of the group like it's a fucking race.
This is pretty great. I thought it was going to be melodramatic with the title, but you raise some commendable points throughout, things with which I couldn't agree more. Like the kids who defend game companies "as a business." Said businesses are not doing them any favors by turning out shittier games. It's like arguing that the guy who beats you up is justified because "he's a bully."
I also agree about the RE5 "racist" silliness and other such hullabaloo. Maybe find a more cohesive way to tie it all together? Your writing style is otherwise concise and well-paced. Looking forward to more entries. And some FFX discussion.
I also agree about the RE5 "racist" silliness and other such hullabaloo. Maybe find a more cohesive way to tie it all together? Your writing style is otherwise concise and well-paced. Looking forward to more entries. And some FFX discussion.
@socialnorms
Thanks! A couple of quick points in that article came at the last second, so I thought i'd just through them in there.
I also felt the title to be strong, but necessary because of the comparison I was making to the album. Also I hope that chimeran swarm analogy wasn't wasted, as I hated that part of the game, but found the analogy so appropriate
Thanks! A couple of quick points in that article came at the last second, so I thought i'd just through them in there.
I also felt the title to be strong, but necessary because of the comparison I was making to the album. Also I hope that chimeran swarm analogy wasn't wasted, as I hated that part of the game, but found the analogy so appropriate
Great blog! I don't know that we need a new title instead of "gamer" but I do think that sites like Destructoid help to counter some of the more idiot-oriented sites that tend to garner much of the attention. Increasingly for every "Jade Raymond has boobies" comment on a gaming site, there are comments about her actual job, what she does... and no need to reference to her actual gender.
"At this point, there needs to be a distinction between the people who are actually gamers and people who spread ignorance with a stamp of “gamer”. ... but things are gradually changing as gamers grow up and as the diversity of gamers continues to grow. Look around on this site and you see new fathers, mothers with young children, old ladies, young high school students, people with handicaps, people from many countries, cultures, etc. Things are changing, they are getting better...but it is a slow change.
"At this point, there needs to be a distinction between the people who are actually gamers and people who spread ignorance with a stamp of “gamer”. ... but things are gradually changing as gamers grow up and as the diversity of gamers continues to grow. Look around on this site and you see new fathers, mothers with young children, old ladies, young high school students, people with handicaps, people from many countries, cultures, etc. Things are changing, they are getting better...but it is a slow change.
Elsa, (btw, i just thought it'd be funny to use you in the blog, hope your not mad!) but doesn't it seem like for every one of those people, there is a "fanboy friday?"
LMAO! I loved that you referred to me in your blog... I'm not mad at all...but I always sorta feel a little odd when people point to me as an example of a female gamer because there are so many of them, even here on the site. Then again, I do spend a lot of time commenting and participating on the site, so I guess it's no different than a reference to Hamza in regards to sports games. :)
On the fanboys... that's a sport on some websites and I guess that will never die. It is part of gamer culture and it's even amusing to see the arguments have changed somewhat from "Xbox suks" or "PS3 rawks" to things like "the graphical capabilities of the PS3 are superior to those of the Xbox 360 due to the multi-core processing capabilites of the secret third processor hidden under the leveraged wing of the multi-part surrealism secondary processor". The arguments are still fanboyish, they're still annoying, they're still stupid... but at least they make attempts at sounding more intelligent! :)
On the fanboys... that's a sport on some websites and I guess that will never die. It is part of gamer culture and it's even amusing to see the arguments have changed somewhat from "Xbox suks" or "PS3 rawks" to things like "the graphical capabilities of the PS3 are superior to those of the Xbox 360 due to the multi-core processing capabilites of the secret third processor hidden under the leveraged wing of the multi-part surrealism secondary processor". The arguments are still fanboyish, they're still annoying, they're still stupid... but at least they make attempts at sounding more intelligent! :)
@Elsa
Yeah it is definitely nice to see somewhat of a change. The other day I was talking to someone and mentioned that I play quite a few video games and they responded with their enjoyment of The New Super Mario Bros. on Wii and their perception of me as a "gamer" changed from being either a troll in my mother's basement or a "Bro" who exclusively plays Halo, Madden, and GTA, to some sort of third option that's much more neutral.
Yeah it is definitely nice to see somewhat of a change. The other day I was talking to someone and mentioned that I play quite a few video games and they responded with their enjoyment of The New Super Mario Bros. on Wii and their perception of me as a "gamer" changed from being either a troll in my mother's basement or a "Bro" who exclusively plays Halo, Madden, and GTA, to some sort of third option that's much more neutral.
It's all labeling theory, really. I mean, ask anyone what they see when you say the term 'gamer' and you'll get varied responses. Very few will be on the mark, though. I mean, even in this blog, 'gamer' points to the asshats online, or people who are out and out fanboys for whatever console/game/company. Or like those people the loved-universally VGAs apparently caters to. Yeah.
It's to the point where I sometimes just say I play games, yet I'm not a gamer. I mean, look at the comparisons. Sure, not all of us are terrible people, but misconceptions are strong if they're widely-accepted like our false images are. =\
It's to the point where I sometimes just say I play games, yet I'm not a gamer. I mean, look at the comparisons. Sure, not all of us are terrible people, but misconceptions are strong if they're widely-accepted like our false images are. =\
@Mrandydixon
Bull, your pooping again and we all know it.
@Elsa
Hamza and sports games? O.K. uh, Tony Ponce and Bomber Man.
@GiftofGab
Nice blog. I just posted a blog similar to this about why we are seen this way. I call the people you talk about (the fanboys, assholes, and other such offenders) outliers. They are, in fact, a minority, but are a very vocal minority, and so when any attention goes toward gamers they are the ones who get noticed, not the level headed ones.
Bull, your pooping again and we all know it.
@Elsa
Hamza and sports games? O.K. uh, Tony Ponce and Bomber Man.
@GiftofGab
Nice blog. I just posted a blog similar to this about why we are seen this way. I call the people you talk about (the fanboys, assholes, and other such offenders) outliers. They are, in fact, a minority, but are a very vocal minority, and so when any attention goes toward gamers they are the ones who get noticed, not the level headed ones.
I know this blog was written with good intentions, but remember that those stupid people you don't like are still, ya know, people. They don't really change that much as a whole. Get used to them.
Look, this is the way things are. It is the same with all other forms of media. Idiots go to the movies, idiots watch TV, idiots even read books, as retarded as that statement sounds. You'll always have to deal with them in some capacity and that's just that. That type of change will never come, as evidenced by the continuing mass consumption of all different forms of stupid shit in every medium by stupid people.
As for people who climb above this massive wall of ignorance you speak of needing to be commended? Well, that's just silly. What makes any of use truly better than the rest of the people who just play games for fun and have no investment outside of the time they spend with their games? My IRL friends spout insults and obscenities on Xbox Live, but they're not stupid and they're not bad people. It's just the way the overwhelming majority of people are. They still do nice things for other people and are good friends, and the same goes for pirates and people who steal stuff online.
I don't like it when they act like that, but I can easily ignore it and just enjoy them for what they are: My friends.
Not everyone is super smart, you know. Doesn't make them any less valuable.
Of course I really shouldn't talk, seeing as how I write my blogs as if they were the word of God, which is how you should write. If you're too nice and too civil then you risk boring the shit out of everyone, and that would be no fun at all.
Good blog, I suppose, but I do have to disagree with your statements. I'll give you a fap anyway for your strong opinion.
Look, this is the way things are. It is the same with all other forms of media. Idiots go to the movies, idiots watch TV, idiots even read books, as retarded as that statement sounds. You'll always have to deal with them in some capacity and that's just that. That type of change will never come, as evidenced by the continuing mass consumption of all different forms of stupid shit in every medium by stupid people.
As for people who climb above this massive wall of ignorance you speak of needing to be commended? Well, that's just silly. What makes any of use truly better than the rest of the people who just play games for fun and have no investment outside of the time they spend with their games? My IRL friends spout insults and obscenities on Xbox Live, but they're not stupid and they're not bad people. It's just the way the overwhelming majority of people are. They still do nice things for other people and are good friends, and the same goes for pirates and people who steal stuff online.
I don't like it when they act like that, but I can easily ignore it and just enjoy them for what they are: My friends.
Not everyone is super smart, you know. Doesn't make them any less valuable.
Of course I really shouldn't talk, seeing as how I write my blogs as if they were the word of God, which is how you should write. If you're too nice and too civil then you risk boring the shit out of everyone, and that would be no fun at all.
Good blog, I suppose, but I do have to disagree with your statements. I'll give you a fap anyway for your strong opinion.
Also, nice reference to Nas there. Shame his music sucks now and he has no room to talk about anything.
Hip Hop isn't dead, it's alive in the hearts and minds of all the true fans, and in the words of all the great underground rappers out there.
Hip Hop isn't dead, it's alive in the hearts and minds of all the true fans, and in the words of all the great underground rappers out there.
OK. To be honest it's late and I didn't actually read this. I did fap only because all the cool kids were doing it. I will read tomorrow, but if my fap was wasted than death will rain down not only upon you, but for all the other past fappers that have mislead me to waste a valuable asset.
Agreed with everything except the calling those who see racist and misogynistic themes in games.
First off, I gotta' say, I don't agree with the "RE5 is racist" or the "Fat Princess is misogynistic" claims, but I do think that the gaming industry tends to be pretty insensitive over racialized and gender-based politics. It's not a RACIST or MISOGYNISTIC industry, but it sort of fails to consider the greater social context, and I think that's honestly what hurts it as a medium from time to time. That said, such claims seem reasonable to make, even if I don't agree with them myself. No one's committing any sort of evil here -- the video game industry or the whistle-blowers -- but I personally believe that games generally tend to be a bit out of touch with reality (but isn't that part of the point?)... And I think that's sort of what spurs on ridiculous behavior among gamers as you call out, too.
Some games have handled issues fairly -- that is, they don't try to sugar coat with political correctness and they don't try to reproduce negative representations. GTA IV and Red Dead Redemption showcase this well in their stories, and are, in my opinion, great examples of the way in which games could (but don't have to) consider the larger social context. Of course, this aspect doesn't excuse the games' various other faults... After all, I will admit that neither GTA IV or Red Dead Redemption have perfect gameplay, which still remains a very important aspect of games.
Anyway, just to restate, I think the games themselves might be at least partially to blame for the sometimes idiotic behavior of its participants.
First off, I gotta' say, I don't agree with the "RE5 is racist" or the "Fat Princess is misogynistic" claims, but I do think that the gaming industry tends to be pretty insensitive over racialized and gender-based politics. It's not a RACIST or MISOGYNISTIC industry, but it sort of fails to consider the greater social context, and I think that's honestly what hurts it as a medium from time to time. That said, such claims seem reasonable to make, even if I don't agree with them myself. No one's committing any sort of evil here -- the video game industry or the whistle-blowers -- but I personally believe that games generally tend to be a bit out of touch with reality (but isn't that part of the point?)... And I think that's sort of what spurs on ridiculous behavior among gamers as you call out, too.
Some games have handled issues fairly -- that is, they don't try to sugar coat with political correctness and they don't try to reproduce negative representations. GTA IV and Red Dead Redemption showcase this well in their stories, and are, in my opinion, great examples of the way in which games could (but don't have to) consider the larger social context. Of course, this aspect doesn't excuse the games' various other faults... After all, I will admit that neither GTA IV or Red Dead Redemption have perfect gameplay, which still remains a very important aspect of games.
Anyway, just to restate, I think the games themselves might be at least partially to blame for the sometimes idiotic behavior of its participants.
I didn't know anything about Jade Raymond before this. I played and enjoyed both Assassin's Creed games. What this has to say about anything is as good of a guess as mine. To be honest, I prefer not to think about other people when I am gaming, especially if they aren't all that important to playing the game itself.
@EternalDeathSlayer
Yes. Stupid people are in fact, stupid. And I should totally be okay with everything stupid people say no matter what. No man come on, Just because stupid people are stupid doesn't mean we give them a free pass. Ms South Carolina taught us that.
I acknowledged the fact that there are other forms of this in other media, but I also said "Other media undoubtedly have their own version of fanboys and pirates, but are they really as bad as gamers? More to the point, are these people really something that “gamers” want to be connected to? "
Then there was the "needing to be commended". and Umm..yeah. people who don't turn into fanboys or straight pirates need to be commended. I...don't see how this could be disputed. Good people are good, and someone should say they're good. That was basically the crux of that entire point. And your right, people who spout insults and racism on xbox live, they're totally not bad people in real life! It's just something about xbox live that does it to them...right? Wait did you say "you don't like it when they act like that?"
Not everyone is super smart. You are in fact correct. I am not super smart, even. But that doesn't mean that pursuing intelligence shouldn't be something that every person should do. It's...why we have school. Because people should pursue intelligence.
Your going to have to be a bit more specific with Nas though, did you mean that he doesn't have any room to talk about anything because of his last untitled album? But that wouldn't make sense because he didn't change anything but the title. Why do you think his music sucks now? I actually think if anything its gotten much better.
Yes. Stupid people are in fact, stupid. And I should totally be okay with everything stupid people say no matter what. No man come on, Just because stupid people are stupid doesn't mean we give them a free pass. Ms South Carolina taught us that.
I acknowledged the fact that there are other forms of this in other media, but I also said "Other media undoubtedly have their own version of fanboys and pirates, but are they really as bad as gamers? More to the point, are these people really something that “gamers” want to be connected to? "
Then there was the "needing to be commended". and Umm..yeah. people who don't turn into fanboys or straight pirates need to be commended. I...don't see how this could be disputed. Good people are good, and someone should say they're good. That was basically the crux of that entire point. And your right, people who spout insults and racism on xbox live, they're totally not bad people in real life! It's just something about xbox live that does it to them...right? Wait did you say "you don't like it when they act like that?"
Not everyone is super smart. You are in fact correct. I am not super smart, even. But that doesn't mean that pursuing intelligence shouldn't be something that every person should do. It's...why we have school. Because people should pursue intelligence.
Your going to have to be a bit more specific with Nas though, did you mean that he doesn't have any room to talk about anything because of his last untitled album? But that wouldn't make sense because he didn't change anything but the title. Why do you think his music sucks now? I actually think if anything its gotten much better.
@Enkido
Hmm. There was this popular culture subtext awhile ago that was between black and white people, and went something to the effect of: Black people use a word they think is cool (for arguments sake, lets call it "homie") and then white people start using it, then it became uncool, so they had to change the word, and stay one step ahead of white people.
I guess it is more of a "glass half empty, glass half full" scenario, if anything. Thanks anyway though, I really had to think a lot about whether or not they were just a vocal minority or if they were more of almost an embedded class. Okay, your making me think too much, I hate you. No seriously, Thanks!
Hmm. There was this popular culture subtext awhile ago that was between black and white people, and went something to the effect of: Black people use a word they think is cool (for arguments sake, lets call it "homie") and then white people start using it, then it became uncool, so they had to change the word, and stay one step ahead of white people.
I guess it is more of a "glass half empty, glass half full" scenario, if anything. Thanks anyway though, I really had to think a lot about whether or not they were just a vocal minority or if they were more of almost an embedded class. Okay, your making me think too much, I hate you. No seriously, Thanks!
@ GiftofGab: IMO, Nas had two good albums: Illmatic, and Stillmatic. I just think he's a moron, really.
And yes, we should give "stupid" people a free pass. They aren't actually all "stupid". Most of them just don't care enough about the artistic aspects of media as much as we on Destructoid do. They consume media for enjoyment and nothing else. There are far more people like this than not. It's part of life. My parents are by no means stupid, but they really only watch action movies and romantic comedies and think games are a waste of time. Even the books they read are pop trash on the whole.
This is just the way of the world, and it doesn't mean anybody is "better" than anybody else. Just ignore those you don't like and move on. It's what I do, instead of getting angry like I used to. That's not a good way to live.
And yes, we should give "stupid" people a free pass. They aren't actually all "stupid". Most of them just don't care enough about the artistic aspects of media as much as we on Destructoid do. They consume media for enjoyment and nothing else. There are far more people like this than not. It's part of life. My parents are by no means stupid, but they really only watch action movies and romantic comedies and think games are a waste of time. Even the books they read are pop trash on the whole.
This is just the way of the world, and it doesn't mean anybody is "better" than anybody else. Just ignore those you don't like and move on. It's what I do, instead of getting angry like I used to. That's not a good way to live.
@EternalDeathSlayer
What you're describing aren't stupid people, your describing people with a passive interest. I've never mentioned them. Everyone has passive interests in certain things, thats completely fine. They aren't the ones you see on xbox live singing along to some random thing or being racist/homophobic. Books are actually a great example, I have a passive interest in books. I play videogames for the stories, so I don't often read a lot of books. However, I'm not burning them. The people that would be burning the books are the ones I'm calling out for being stupid, and they shouldn't get a free pass.
Also, Nas a moron? That interests me, as i've never heard that before. Why do you think so?
What you're describing aren't stupid people, your describing people with a passive interest. I've never mentioned them. Everyone has passive interests in certain things, thats completely fine. They aren't the ones you see on xbox live singing along to some random thing or being racist/homophobic. Books are actually a great example, I have a passive interest in books. I play videogames for the stories, so I don't often read a lot of books. However, I'm not burning them. The people that would be burning the books are the ones I'm calling out for being stupid, and they shouldn't get a free pass.
Also, Nas a moron? That interests me, as i've never heard that before. Why do you think so?
