Quantcast
Community Discussion: Blog by Excremento | Love/Hate: The Games as Art ArgumentDestructoid
LIGHTS:  ON | OFF
surf dtoid with arrow keys

HOT GAMES
REVIEWS VIDEOS COMMUNITY FORUM SHOP

pc PS4 PS3 NEXT XBOX XBOX 360 WII U 3DS PS vita ANDROID APPLE

REMOVE ALL ADS?
Guaranteed contest entry?
A new video show?
Something else?

Vote in our membership poll

click to hide banner header
About

Hey robots, I'm Excremento, but you cool and old skool Dtoiders know that already, this is merely for the N00BS. I've been a videogamer for as long as I can remember. I have well over 27 years of video game experience that I rely on daily, and a near encyclopedic memory of gaming starting with the Commodore 64 and ending with whatever is the current hotness.

I've got my own blog at MediaWhoreNetwork that I try to write on when I'm not too busy...and just recently have decided to come back to do a few Community Blogs here on Dtoid now that most failbloggers don't exist anymore. I'm still here fellas (and ladies) updating as often as I can for all of your enjoyment.

Any of you out there who wish to chat it up with ol Ex can do so at:

Gmail -- xopher (DOT) reed (AT) gmail (DOT)com

Facebook: Xopher Reed

Author of The Ten Commandments for Community Bloggers



NES Games
SNES Games
Genesis Games
Female Game Characters
Dreamcast Games
Fighting Game Series
Shitty Games I Own
Arcade Beat 'Em Ups
Robot characters
Third Party NES Soundtracks
EGM #58 May 1994 Readers' Top 10
Final Bosses (SNES)
Things I'm Excited For In Halo 3
Gaming Beverages
Albums To Game To
Cancelled Games
Worst Video Game Weapons
Best Video Game Weapons
Video Game Vehicles
Most Frustrating Moments In Gaming
Useless Game Characters
Arcade Gun Games
Video Game Sidekicks
Overrated Successful Games
Games That Deserve Sequels
Game Soundtracks
Legend of Zelda Games
MSDOS Computer Games
Games I Wish My Fiance Would Play With Me
Advertainment Games
Games Mrs. Excremento Plays and Enjoys
Games of 2007
Ways To Die
Game Series I Never Get Tired of Playing
Games You Had To Leave The NES On All Night To Beat
Games I Forgot I Owned Until I Found Them While Packing Up My Apartment to Move to My New House
SNK Games
Guilty Pleasure Movies
NES Games That You Had to Leave on All Night to Beat
Arcade Beat 'Em Ups



White Russians
Mr. Destructoid's Green Death
Happy Cola
A Pimp Named Butmac
The Electro Lemon
Irish Car Bombs
Neonie's Furry Purple Squirrels
Adios Motherf*cker
Shipero's Italian Martini
Coonskin And Bones
Flaming Dr. Pepper
12-Gauge Shottie
Destructoid Army Green
Miami Vice
The Workman Mojito
n00bmeister's Sneaky Drinking at Work Drink
Necros's Lounge Lizard
The Goomba Smash
Aerox's Lunchbox
Bloodylip's I Have A Dreamsicle

EXCREMENTO MAKES:

Brownies
Lasagna
Player Profile
Follow me:
Excremento's sites
Badges
Following (45)  




If it weren't for the majority of people who were born at the end of Generation X and the beginning of Generation Y, this debate wouldn't exist. I say this because we were the first generation to be brought up having wide access to televisions...and the fact that most of us wanted more interaction with it rather than being passive sacks of meat slowly roasting in the lovely radiation that it brought into our lives...much like the hotdogs at 7-11.

Every medium has had at one point, neophytes and veterans that love to go back and forth debating entertainment value versus artistic value. Consider this my entry to be added to the ever increasing pile of games as art discussion. Even though the videogame medium isn't new, it was only recently that our beloved game industry surpassed profits that rival that of the movie industry. Yup, what was once a niche market has become mainstream and with it...more arguing.

I love videogames. I love art. However but I can't pretend to know what art really is. Hell, so many people don't even realize that the definition of the word is so subjective as to be completely misunderstood by many who would use it to further one side or the other.



There is just something about how the whole argument for or against games as art that I find completely revolting...to the point of hating the whole fucking mess. It gets so bad sometimes that I will purposely miss out on some excellent games because of the relentless battles of whether it is/isn't art.

Don't get me wrong, I do believe videogames can be art, regardless of its entertainment value or sheer transparency as a work of pulp. My biggest problem is that people want to have a laser-beam focus on certain games or an aspect of them that they want to consider works of art...I don't think it's that simple, you can't pick one game and have it be THE example while not allowing all others a fair shake.



Let's start with classic gaming. I can see the inherent beauty in classic games like Donkey Kong, Frogger, and even Burgertime. I'm not talking about the simple piles of pixels that make up the image you see on the screen (which to sprite junkies like myself are art), but in the manner in which you (as the player) interface with the machine. Even the guts of the arcade cabinet itself have a beauty that many people would argue whether it's art or not.

Even with all of the arguments I just brought up, it seems that nobody wants to debate classic gaming at all. They're on an untouchable pedestal where it 'just isn't fair' to drag into the debates that focus on more recent games on sleeker hardware.

The most commonly used example that I hear about is Shadow of the Colossus. It's already one generation behind but for most of us gamers, that SHOULDN'T matter. It's an excellent game and is gorgeous to look at. My biggest complaint about them citing Shadow is that these people are using a good game on a sexy piece of hardware for their argument about which games should be considered art. It's the same as bringing up Andy Warhol's Soup Can paintings...or Godwin's Law. It's so common that I feel that you've already lost the argument.



All of the posturing and fighting over something so trivial as to whether you see it as art or not is in my opinion, ridiculous. When you become so focused on classifying the merits and artistic value of a game, you tend to become so shortsighted as to not pay attention to the other aspects that make the game up.

Personally I don't see there ever being an end to the debate, but more or less an agreement between the both sides to disagree with each other. It's happened with all forms of mass media over the years, whether it be heavy metal music, comic books, or Fox News.

I wish that people could approach the arguments with a bit more of an open mind instead of having set variables that need to be filled in order to classify it one way or another. Word.



Is this blog awesome? Vote it up!




Those who have come:



Did you know? You can now get daily or weekly email notifications when humans reply to your comments.

Legacy Comments (will be imported soon)


I like it. There are pictures. Pictures are fun. What? There are words. Oh, tl;dr.
I almost skipped over this blog due to my own aversion to the whole "games as art" wank-fest, but this turned out to be a good read. I would fap this blog, but for some reason it's not working. So you get a phantom fap from me.

I'm strongly in the "games as fun" camp, and don't really give a fuck about any kind of grand philosophical/sociological underpinnings in this medium. I want to be entertained by a game, not lectured. I can and will go read a book if that's the thing I want at the time. For me, gaming is a brief escape from the general suckiness of real life.
I'm totally saving this link to show people the next time anyone brings up that debate.
Great read, sir.
Excremento's Law:

Invoking Shadow of the Colossus in an argument about artisic merit in videogames means you lose.
This is an amazing blog, if only because it acknowledges that "art" is subjective. Heck, I know people who don't believe movies or books can be art.
A good read, but I don't really care what others define as "art" or not as I have my own personal definitions... and it's pretty simple - anything that is visually pleasing and evokes an emotion.

It can be a painting, a photograph, the first crocus of spring poking through the snow... or it can be the intake of breath on climbing to the top of the lighthouse in Oblivion and seeing the sun set. It can be my first experience with Flower, or the cutscenes in Heavenly Sword... or more recent moments in COD:MW2 where I just looked around and thought "wow".

Eh... then again, I never truly thought that Jackson Pollock's works were "art" so what do I know!
@ Elsa

You make a good point, but my argument is directed towards those that have a checklist of things that need to be met in order to consider it art. In your own comment you said "anything that is visually pleasing AND evokes an emotion".

I'm simply asking a question so plese don't take offense, just trying to add a few wrinkles in my brain today.

Does this mean that you don't think a game could be considered to contain artistic merit unless it satisfies both criteria?

So essentially if a game makes you feel emotional but looks like ass it wouldn't count? So that means that the original X-men game on the NES isn't a piece of art...hey wait!

Or if you took it vice versa and it was a gorgeous game that you just meh-ed you way through, it wouldn't count either.

Wait, goddamnit this was a trap to get me to talk about the argument I'm arguing against/for...sheesh, I hate being tricked!
Theres something kind of shallow about only noticing the visual beauty of game, like your missing the point.
Games aren't just pictures, theres the core game mechanics that keep you playing, how the game responds to your interaction, why does one game simply play better or worse than another, I would consider that a more important aspect.

Games most important aspect being interaction.

But in truth it's a bit of everything, audio, visuals, story, game mechanics. It's a medium that has a lot of facets, some games skew to certain areas more than others.
I'm getting pretty tired of seeing the word 'art' throw around, too, but probably for different reasons. I think the "are games art" debate is tangential to good criticism. Instead of muckraking in semantics, serious games writers should be taken games on their own terms: how does this mechanic or design fit into this one? How do the narrative and the mechanics work together? What does this type of interaction have to tell us -- about ourselves, about the game as a whole, about anything at all?

Taking the time to see what each game has to offer -- on any number of levels, from fun up to high philosophy and back again -- should be, in my eyes, of primary import. Trying to figure out if that constitutes are seems secondary.
I don't even have an opinion on this topic anymore.
... when I say "visually pleasing"... it doesn't need to be "pretty"... just something I want to look at. If I "want" to look at it, it must arouse some form of emotion... even if the emotion is merely curiosity - so for me, the two go hand in hand.

... and yes, if a game looks like ass, then to me it's not art if I merely dismiss it and have no emotion, interest or inclination to further examine the input.

"looks like ass" is subjective though (as is art). To me a screen from pacman hold more visual interest than a Jackson Pollock piece.
@ elsa

Fair enough, I was just foolin' with ya anyways

@ EDS

Yes you do, who are you kidding!?!

@ Joseph Leray & flabzilla

I completely agree, the melange of the entire experience should be used when criticising games, not just the typical "graphics sucked" argument.
Games are definitely art in my book. In both senses of the word; 1. A Craft/Skill 2. The senses/emotions they cause.

Art: Art is the process or product of deliberately arranging elements in a way that appeals to the senses or emotions. It encompasses a diverse range of human activities, creations, and modes of expression, including music, literature, film, sculpture, games, and paintings. The meaning of art is explored in a branch of philosophy known as aesthetics.

I am therefore I game.
I just farted and it offended my cubemate by appealing to his sense of stinky ass, am I an artist?
No, really, I don't know what to say on the matter anymore. It all seems pretty pointless to me these days. I figure if you're sitting home and you're playing a game and you think it's a work of art then I guess it's a work of art. Why argue? If others agree, discuss it with them, and if they don't, oh well.

Just enjoy the games you play, for whatever reason they appeal to you.
I honestly never see people "arguing" about whether games are art. More often it's people complaining that too many people are arguing about whether games are art. Like a child plugging their ears and telling mommy dad to stop fighting when mom and dad aren't even saying anything. I don't actually believe the "Games As Art Debate" exists. Not in the sense of two equal camps of "Games Are Art" and "Games Aren't Art" squaring off against each other. There's a "Games Are Art" crew and an "I Don't Like Talking About Art Because I Lack The Critical Vocabulary" crew.
If I could fap a million times, I would.

Just another example of how other people can communicate my thoughts better than I can.
Actually, ignore fapping, just Tenga the thing. That should be like, I don't know, a hyperfap.
I may not know art but I know what I like, and I like this Clog. :)

Back to Top
DLC   |   BEST Games of 2012   |   Best PC Games   |   Best PS3 Games   |   Best Xbox 360 Games   |   Best Wii U Games   |   Best 3DS Games




All content is yours to recycle through our Creative Commons License permitting non-commercial sharing requiring attribution. Our communities are obsessed with videoGames, movies, anime, and toys.

Living the dream since March 16, 2006

Advertising on destructoid is available: Please contact them to learn more