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Alright. I understand that there are paradigm shifts occurring in the videogame industry at large. I understand that change is usually a good, if not a great thing. I understand that people at large will most likely blindly choose convenience over sense when offered both. I understand most of all that people are the most fickle things on this Earth, especially when it comes down to what it is that the individual person wants. I don't know if it's the way that kids have been raised, or whether it's just a horribly skewed world view permeating every single corner I see these days, but the "I want it this way, I want it my way, and I want it now" attitude has got to stop. I understand that better than most, it seems. What I don't understand is how the Street Fighter community is divided into two camps when the subject of SUPER is brought up. You see, Capcom is doing us, the players, something called a favor. They've responded to the overwhelming turnout of SF fans (and fighting game fans in general) by giving us (GASP!) what we wanted. New characters, both original and returning. New stages. BONUS stages. New modes. Watchable replays. Tournament modes. The whole fucking lot. The division occurs when the subject of "downloadable content" is brought up. As in, "Capcom should have just made this DLC," "No DLC=FAIL" and treating the game with an attitude that smacks of "this is a ripoff" statements and other rampant jackassery. To these people, I have a high degree of contempt reserved just for their ilk - it's a fairly polarizing viewpoint, to be sure, and it goes a little something like this:
You stupid, spoiled children. Get over it and grow the fuck up already. Do you think, for one fucking sterling-silver minute, that the amount of content that they are WORKING on would fit the rules of anything resembling normalcy in terms of DLC? Do you want 4 GB of DLC, what with new opening and ending movies, music and probably everything fucking else that they're just crafting away on so you can get a better taste of your favorite jam come back to life at long last? Or would you rather have all of that on a simple to purchase disc, one priced twenty dollars less than the current bare-bones (by comparison) version that currently exists on your shelf? Tell me, then, does it make good business sense to price any singular form of downloadable content at the equivalent of $40 in moon banana coinage, where that alone would assuredly dwarf everything ever released as far as the simple pricing of said downloadable content goes, making it seem as it were a giant among mice? Or, does it make better sense to release it in full retail view clearly marked $20 cheaper in real, physical scrip to make it look like Capcom might actually be doing the world a....what's that term again, let me think about it....oh, yeah, that's it - A FUCKING FAVOR!? Here's a tip to all of those who think they're getting ripped off: shut the fuck up. You're lucky, we're lucky, and to that end, the whole goddamn world is pretty fucking lucky to see Street Fighter reborn. Act like an adult, act like you know better, take what you've been given and smile, and act like you have some fucking manners for these people. It doesn't matter whether you don't like the box that the gift comes in, you know? What matters is the gift. Do you really think that a girl will give two shits about finding a 2-carat diamond ring inside a makeshift box made from a Mickey D's fry container? Could she possibly refuse the gift because it wasn't packaged how she wanted it to be, damn the cost of the precious contents? Well, sure, I guess she could... ...but that would make her a huge fucking bitch, now wouldn't it? AMIRITE!? It's like you want Capcom to fully open the doors to nickel-and-dime tactics via DLC. At least they spared you that much, as all of this awesomesauce content would probably cost you $60 via DLC, and then nothing would separate them from the likes of Scamco Ban-DIE. Would you rather have it that way? I'm sure it could be arranged, but I think instead, they've decided to do us a...oh, hell, what was it...of course, A FUCKING FAVOR! Goddamn, you whiny little pissants make me want to fucking puke sometimes. Just be glad that they gave enough of a flying fuck about you and the game you like to play to make an expansion in the fucking first place, like the rest of us well-adjusted adults are. Don't make me tell you twice. /end rant - EL
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if it was possible to be a DLC, they'd do it. But there's a reason Blazblue isn't getting CS as a DLC and it's the same reason SSF4 isn't getting DLC treatment.
I honestly wish people can at least argue about a actual reason on why we get a "Super" version of a fighter. Blazblue is different in a case as the mechanics in the game get a complete rehaul so making that DLC is impossible without making it a ultra large download.
In all seriousness, I can't wait for SSF4 and I'm so happy it's going to be on a disc.
The only reason why there are people saying stupid stuff like this is because the casual fighting game fans don't want to buy another fighting game next year. Everybody who is the least bit serious about fighting games won't think twice about it.
I just don't understand the "DLC not disk" argument at all. They could have gone with giving us nothing; I'll take something I totally want in nearly any form over nothing any day of the week. But I guess that's not enough for some people.
Good writeup.
And I want a hooker too, an expensive one.
"They could have gone with giving us nothing...I guess that's not enough for some people."
My.
Point.
EXACTLY.
Also, I'm not sure how much of a favour it is, given their history of doing this and the fact that they intend to (and of course will) make a profit on this. Sure they could've just not done it, but again... they're going to make money by doing it regardless of how much the fans want it.
I mean, I don't have a problem with it (even if it will make SFIV worthless) and plan to get it, but just remember that they're going to make a lot of money by doing this, favour or not. Just remember that and chill out.
There's some of it here, but that's just one little flicker. I've seen folks here bitch up a goddamn storm about it, just check all of the #Street Fighter tagged entries. The comments are pretty divisive, even if the divide is about 3-1 to 4-1 ratio of for and against, respectively.
Two words. Burnout Paradise.
They added a TON of content, including but not limited to; new cars, an entire new island, motorcycles, night and day cycles, new multiplayer modes, a new local multiplayer mode, and they even IMPROVED THE FUCKING GRAPHICS IN MULTIPLAYER! A lot of the major changes were free, while they charged an understandable amount for everything else.
An entire new retail package for SSFIV is not necessary. They could cut the production costs of the boxes, manuals, discs, and everything in between. Use that saved money to sell it cheaper on XBL/PSN.
If Capcom wants to release it at retail for the sole purpose of profit, and sales then i want them to say so. For them to completly LIE about it, and say it isn't possible as DLC is fucking bullshit. And then to top it off, they tell you to keep your SFIV disc, to unlock some kind of bonus. They want to increase sales on their old game, to unlock whatever it is, and decrease the amount of trade ins...Its just dirty business practice.
At least with RE5 Gold, they give us the OPTION to download everything, or buy it at retail. Giving us a CHOICE.
I will admit this - they could pass the "savings" on to the customer by eschewing a disc-based release. But why, when most SF fans (really, fighting game fans period as a majority) would rather have a disc/cart/whathaveyou-based copy of their fighting titles?
Also, what they're giving you isn't simple DLC. It's not addon content. It's an entirely different and retuned game built upon the same base engine, not additional content built to be "plugged" into the existing engine.
If you want dirty business practice, go look at Namco. Did you know that the "Ace of Aces" difficulty for Ace Combat 6 costs you per level? Did you know that it equals $60, paying for the game ALL over again, just to play the entire game on the hardest difficulty? That's dirty business practice.
Beautiful Katamari...they make you pay for all of the DLC levels in order to get a ball big enough to unlock the "Largest Katamari" achievement. That's dirty business practice.
SoulCalibur IV...made you pay $5 to unlock a Star Wars character that was already contained on the fucking disc. That's dirty business practice.
Making an entirely retooled game, packed with everything the original had and practically overflowing in sheer terms of "and then some"...is not dirty business practice. It's just not giving the customer a choice, which is what my rant was about in the first place. So they didn't give you a choice. Waaaaah.
Buck up, princess. At least they saw fit to not only add more awesome, but fix what wasn't, and give it to us for 2/3 of what the day-ones paid.
Also, if you paid $20 for it new, that's because you picked it up well after release, and so that $60 price tag didn't apply to you anyway. You evidently weren't that big of a fan to get it on day one, you're not the type to play seriously in tournaments, that's all you, brother. That's your path, walk it proudly, by all means. But don't think for a second that Capcom is so damn evil for completely retooling their game and charging for it.
Oh, Burnout Paradise updates were mostly free because every two left turns you take, you get the Burger King grinning in your face. Or a shitty movie poster. Or a DVD release. Or whatever else you're told to buy. Everything else is just extra gravy not paid for by advertising revenue. THAT'S passing the savings on to the consumer at its finest, isn't it?
I'm not saying that your argument is altogether wrong. I'm just saying that under the circumstances, the argument is quite the moot point, all things considered. I'm not about to stand for something that seems like blatant robbery in the industry, as my comment list may prove to you. This isn't a cause to go championing the DLC flag around with, in fact, it's quite the opposite.
Then again, just like any issue, there's going to be at least two sides, and one of them, if not all of them, will bitch incessantly.
Like you said, there's always at least two sides, and i happen to be on the one who would prefer to spend 20$ on an update/DLC pack.
Opinions can change, take GTA4 for example. I can purchase the two DLC episodes for $20 each on XBL, or spend $40 for both on a retail disc. For whatever reason, in this case, i would prefer the retail disc. But at least i was given the choice between the two.
There's no Burger King ads in Burnout Paradise. McDonald's takes that privilege. And yes, that IS passing savings on to the customer at it's best. I would much rather get something for free with unobtrusive advertising such as billboards, than i would pay for it out of my pocket.
Just no.
Me calling out your name was in reference to the fact that it's from Viewtiful Joe, a treasured Capcom property (or at least treasured by me). I thought you'd at least give them some semblance of the benefit of the doubt.
Most serious fans of any franchise grab the title on day one, or reserve it well before release. I happen to have been one of those people, and reserved one copy Collector's Edition on both systems, not because I wanted to spend more, but because I'm that much of a fanboy for fighting games - Street Fighter especially. So, yes, I carry a bias. I carry a bias for fighting games, to the point where I want it on day one so that I can break down strategy for/against characters as soon as I possibly can. It has nothing to do with how much you paid for it, just how quickly you got it usually directly correlates how fast you pick up on the game and therefore gain and maintain your competitive edge.
Now, considering that GTA4's DLC was really nothing more than recorded dialogue, new player skins and mission types placed over the EXACT same engine featuring the EXACT same gameplay areas (for the most part, say, 98% the same). SSFIV will be a total overhaul. Total. Overhaul. As in, new stages - those animated stages, fully rendered, will take time to create since they're 100% new assets. Oh, and let's add 8-10 new characters, and movesets, and selectable ultras, and most likely new supers, and new music, and new animated openings/endings for those 8-10 new characters, and bonus stages, and entirely new netcode, and online lobbies, and tournament modes, and replays, and a replay channel...and this all adds up to what? Something that's worth picking up on disc. This isn't a simple DLC addon - this is what's called actual content. In fact, I'm wrong...this isn't simple content, this is a whole new version of the game. This amount of work, where people have to design this all over again from the ground up, takes time, money, and a shitload of people to get working. That's why it's a $40 game, and not a $20 DLC pack, because it's not a virtual shirt that you can slip over the top of the preexisting game and say it looks fucking different enough to be called a genuine change, it's because it's a whole new body, essentially speaking.
This isn't a "oh, let me add Darth Vader/Yoda to my copy of SC4" phenomenon. This is a full sequel come a year later, which is how Street Fighter usually works, which is why when this was announced, dyed-in-the-wool SF fans knew it was coming and practically expected it. We also expected to pay full price for the motherfucker, but at least we got our surprise there, and the only ones bitching about it seem to be those spoiled by "content packs" for games like GTA and Fallout 3. Sure, those packs had quality, especially in the case of GTA, but this isn't one of those things you can just throw a new coat of paint on - for something as deep as a fighting game, you gotta rebuild the whole damn engine to get real results. And that, sir, costs money...so by getting it for $40, that's actually pretty good business.
Also, I couldn't give two flying fucks about what burger chain Burnout supports. All I knew was that it was there, and it distracted me while I'm trying to drive, as well as ads for AVP:R, Righteous Kill, and other products/films/corporate shill that I'm not interested in at all. So, for me, that was a huge turnoff, and I stopped playing because I would rather pay someone for their work than have fucking advertising shoved down my eyes' throat (a place that is quite easy to get to). See, I'm surrounded by advertising every day, and I take notice of how tired I am of the fucking shit everywhere I look. At least I had games to run away from the rampant product placement surrounding the fuck out of me. But here we are, companies know that it works on feeble-minded little teenagers that like to blow shit up, and I have to fucking suffer for it. So, no, I don't appreciate having to see Mc-what-the-fuck-ever burger advertised while I'm trying to earn an achievement, because it pulls me out of the fucking game for even a split second, and that's something that all developers should be trying to avoid at all cost, even if that cost is something that I have to pay for. Because I'll pay if I like it, and I like it a hell of a lot more if I don't have to see "I'm Loving It" every two left turns downtown.
"Now, considering that GTA4's DLC was really nothing more than recorded dialogue..."
I stopped reading right there. Whatever you said completely invalidated your knowledge of what is and is not possible with DLC.
This isn't about price, this isn't about other companies and what they do with their DLC, this isn't even about Capcom's other game titles, and this certainly isn't about in game advertisement. This is about the customer, and the customers choice. This is also about being lied to about what's possible in patching a game. Balancing a fighting game, shooting game, or even an MMO (the most patched Genre on earth), does not require the entire engine to be rebuilt, unless the existing engine was built to purposely be immune to patches.
The fact that this was "expected" by die hard Street Fighter fans is a crying shame. For someone to "expect" to be fucked over, robbed of their hard earned money, and be totally fine with that is in fact, a tragedy. We live in an age where it is not necessary for a new version of the same game every year. Patches and DLC are the future. My home security system and my router/modem can be upgraded and patched from the other side of the world. I can call Microsoft and tell them something is going on with my computer and they can then take control of my system and fix it without me doing a thing but turn it on.
I'm not sure what else to say to you, you're set in your ways, and that's fine. It doesn't mean you are right, and it doesn't mean I'm wrong.
I stopped reading right there.
I stopped reading right there.
Also, if you stopped reading there, then it's your loss. Maybe you didn't catch this:
"Sure, those packs had quality, especially in the case of GTA..."
Lost and Damned was phenomenal, played it extensively at my boy's crib while my 360 status was in limbo thanks to a RROD outside of warranty date. Don't own Gay Tony, played it, impressed all the same. But a patch to an MMO that completely rewrites the book on how the game is to be played doesn't happen all that often, and it usually takes tens, if not hundreds of patches to get something done that resembles what would be called a massive overhaul.
Why go through all that bullshit when you could just pick up something fucking finished? That's the scenario I find myself in playing Tekken 6 at the moment - great game, shit netcode, and I'm just twiddling my thumbs waiting endlessly. By the time they release a patch that allows a fighting game dependent on 60-frames-a-second-timing to not play like a dried turd online, I'll probably be neck-deep in something else that's more worth my time and patience (like TvC, something that should be coming to PS3 and 360 and isn't, at least for now - Y0j1mb0 said it best, while I digress). Something not dependent on fraction-second timing and such isn't that difficult to "patch" out, you're right about that. Content delivery is a whole different story - the content, character, stage, music, what have you - that COULD be DLC, yes. It could. It most definitely could. But it's not. And it's not for a damn good reason, that reason being that the game is undergoing a complete rebuild.
You could patch a hole in a boat for free.
You could build a better, more superior boat and sell it cheaper to your clientele.
They're not saints. I never elevated them to sainthood. But they are kind enough to fix the fucking problems inherent in that game and not just give us "DLC" like other developers who are just that lazy to figure that would shut up the starving hardcore fanbase this juggernaut has. This isn't a "new episode," Blue. It's not an "expansion pack," either. It's. A. New. Game. Man. That's all.
[i][b]It.
Is.
A.
New.
Version.
Of.
The.
Game.
Not.
A.
Cosmetic.
Fucking.
Upgrade.
And.
Definitely.
Not.
A.
Mere.
Costume.
Pack.[/b][/i]
If you didn't want them, you didn't buy them.
Wasn't it you who was saying something about "being offered a choice?"
They had a chance to do DLC right, and they did it wrong. Those costumes should have been free, or even on the disc. Instead of the lame color swaps that were actually on the disc, we should have gotten completely alternate costumes.
This is an entirely different argument. Just saying, the stuff Capcom pulls sometimes pisses me off. I don't doubt it will be the same song and dance when SSFIV is released, and the eventual SSFIV Turbo. Or even the inevitable SSFIV Turbo HD Remix TOURNAMENT EDITION!
It takes a huge Capcom fanboy mentality to justify the 25+ versions of SFII, and the eventual endless rehashes of SFIV.
Nowadays, however...more folks are down with shooting someone in the face rather than punching them. So, I highly doubt there will be a SSFIVTHDRTE. You can go ahead and put that idea out to pasture, because while they may still be Capcom, they don't shit out sequels like they used to - that's now Activision's job.
Also, from one Capcom-themed dtoider to another...you're talking to me about Capcom fanboyism, which I will admit I carry a large streak of, what with the color of my sidebar, the image in my blog header, and the fact that very image is indelibly emblazoned on my entire left shoulder blade...yeah, I can handle that label. I know a good developer when I see one. I also know a developer that hadn't touched their most famous property of all time for ten years before deciding to bring it back out, unsure of how the public would treat it in today's "shoot 'em in the fuckin' face" landscape.
Do I wish those costumes were free? Yeah. Of course I do.
Am I holding something against them for trying to be like everyone else at this point? No, it's a game of when in Rome, you see the monkey do, so you do as the Roman monkey do, see? :oD
And let's see...for the record, of course:
There's 7 different versions of SFII.
SFII
SFII' (C.E.)
SFII' HF
SSFII
SSFIIT
HSFII
SSF2THDR
And this took 18 years to do. Let's see...Tony Hawk games have had TEN entries in ten years, and you're telling me that SFII has had endless rehashes. If you think you're going to count the different series' entries (Alpha, III, Vs., IV) as rehashed clones of SFII, do yourself a favor and just stop while you're ahead. Arguing that point will prove the fact that you're a casual fan of the series, and that's all well and good. I know plenty of casual fans of Modern Warfare, and they didn't feel the need to get those goofy night-vision-esque goggles...but then again, I know those guys who had their year made by the fact that they got those same goofy goggles.
SFIV was like watching my beloved departed pet dog come back to life and not be a zombie. So, I don't mind spending a little spare change on making him look awesome. You might, because he may not be your favorite puppy after all, and that's cool. Just don't insult my well-adjusted fanboyism, because in this case, I know what I'm talking about. I ain't on Capcom's payroll - just a very happy SF player.
Having said that I would buy every street fighter they plan on release and I would prefer it to have it on a disc even if I have to pay more, because in ten years I might want to play vanilla sf4 and if a disc is not provided it would be more of a hassle if my game is patched and i can't play the original version. And even if its selectable I probably wouldn't use it. I'll give you an example I have played probably five matches of st on hdr. However I play from time to time sf3 second impact.
The fact that you bought from Gamestop for 20 buck means you bought the game 7 months after launch. And yes I know when the game dropped in price due to the fact I work for GS. So by no means are you a true fan of the game so for you to understand what a disk based game means for any true fighting game fan is all in void. People want disk based content. In fact you GTA DLC sold so bad that they made the disk based release to reach more people cause not everyone is down with the DLC. People dont want 4-8gb of there hard drives taking up by DLC. You made the point the capcom has released many versions of SF2 and you expect any different for IV? You dont have to but the game and I dont really care if ever do. I'm a capcom fan just like EL and I will be buying the game on day one both systems. I'm doing that to show capcom how much we SF fans love disk based content by moving one more game is good for the fight. And if capcom so wishes to release a SSFIVHDRTE I will be buying for both systems again because I know a good game maker when I see it. Heck EL and I aint to much different cause I too have capcom ink on me for life. So what.
Down with the DLC....give me the PMD (physical media disk)
25+ versions of SFII? Dude, take a look at Call Of Duty, count all of the versions ever released of that franchise on all platforms, and they're almost fucking equal in about 1/2 the span of time. Do the same for Mario games, you don't see people bitching about that, do you? Why are you acting like SF is a plague?