Quantcast
Destructoid - Euthanasian's Community Blog




About Me
Age: 23
Sex: Male
Location: Vancouver

Xbox Live: Euthanasian67
PSN: Euthanasian
Steam: euthanasian
Twitter: @euthanasian

Currently playing:
Saints Row the Third
Dark Souls
Dance Central 2
Trine 2
Yakuza 4
SSFIV:AE
UMvC3

Excited for:
Mass Effect 3
Guild Wars 2


About me:

I am an art school graduate working in an unrelated field! Yippee. I picked up gaming at an early age with the NES, preferring to steer towards Zelda and not so much Megaman. I still suck at platformers today.

I mainly play RPGs, but that doesn't mean I can't play a mean game of Team Fortress or BlazBlue.

My partner comes from a PC gaming world, so being the console gamer that I am, we tend to butt heads sometimes. His idea of a romantic gift was to get two tournament edition Street Fighter arcade sticks. I think he's a keeper.

I do art sometimes?

My contribution to Cory Schmitz' Zelda Zine

Articles from the front page:

Nothing is Sacred: Loot from Beasts

Favorites:

Games:
1) EarthBound
2) Chrono Trigger
3) Phoenix Wright #3

Music:
1) Little Boots
2) Ting Tings
3) Emi Hinouchi

Movies:
1) Little Miss Sunshine
2) Eternal Summer
3) Up

Graphic Novels:
1) Same Difference and Other Stories
2) Scott Pilgrim series
3) Fun Home

Books:
1) Me Talk Pretty One Day
2) A Home at the End of the World
3) Wicked

TV Shows:
1) Arrested Development
2) 30 Rock
3) Amazing Race
Gamer Profile
3DS friend code:
Steam: euthanasian
Battle:
PSN: euthanasian
Mii:
Gamertag: Euthanasian67
Following (6)
Andrew Kauz
Chad Concelmo
Elsa
flea friend
RoccoAnthony
Gay Gamers Lash Out... Why?
Euthanasian | 4:49 PM on 01.03.2012 13 comments


What started off as a well-intentioned article, written in response to Andrew Meade’s Gamasutra piece about the lack of LGBT characters in video games, soon spun into wild accusations of homophobia. For absolutely no reason.

Meade’s piece, titled “Awful Lot of Heterosexuals Around Here”, sparked a heated debate among the Gamasutra readers. In his article, Meade suggests,

“What if at the end of Uncharted 3, we found out that the reason why Drake could never hold down a relationship, and why he always acts like an insufferable douche, was because he had been wrestling with his sexuality for his entire life? What if at the end of Uncharted 3, Drake came out? If that happened I would slow clap. I really would.”

Jim Sterling decided that the idea that Meade threw out at the end of his article was so brilliant that he would elaborate on why Nathan Drake would make such a fantastic gay character. Reasons for this ranged from his inability to maintain a relationship with women, his popularity and likability being able to influence and change attitudes, messing with genuinely homophobic gamers that adore the series, and being able to showcase a fleshed out gay character that wasn’t just a campy stereotype. That last reason seemed to hit a nerve with a few gay gamers...



Joshua Meadows wrote a rather lengthy response (which has since been updated) to Sterling’s response to Meade’s article on his gaming blog. Still with me? Good. He begins by stating his distaste for Sterling, which probably wasn’t the best introduction into a post that seemed rather... carelessly written. All that he seems to have taken away from initially reading Sterling’s article was that Nathan Drake would be a good gay character because nobody thinks that he’s gay. He goes on to say, “This is completely awesome, mind you, because he's not a mincing, prancing f****t so it's the sort of thing that would be great!”

Right there, we get the sense that this guy seems to have a lot of baggage and is projecting a lot of his issues onto a writer that he admits he doesn’t like. He mentions another article written by Sterling about Fallout: New Vegas. In it, Sterling mentioned how wonderful it was to discover that one of the characters was gay, when he initially had no idea. All that Meadows took from that? “So, there it is: Sterling's idea of a positive gay role model is someone who isn't flamboyant, doesn't bring up his sexuality unless relentlessly asked about it, and won't hit on you unless you make the first move.” It seemed like another case of Meadows bringing out his personal issues and reading Sterling’s writing in a way clearly not intended.

The most amusing bit, of course, is when he assumes that Jim Sterling is writing from a heterosexual viewpoint, when in fact Sterling is a proud bisexual himself.

This was followed by tweets from @aeazel of GayGamer.net and @radiatoryang in support of Meadows’ rant.

“No, the only good gay is not one who is undetectable, easily mistaken for straight, and bro-ey.”
“I see enough gay-hating shit on various gay sites and among the gay community, don't need it in games too.”
“what bugs me more are the "I am gay and I agree" comments, blah blah something hegemony”

My initial reaction to all of this was purely confusion. How did these people seem to misinterpret Sterling’s writing to such a degree? He was in support of more diverse representations of gay characters. He simply stated that it would be refreshing to see a different kind of gay character. Rather than gay character personalities that we’ve seen many times before, like Glee’s Kurt or Enchanted Arms’ Makoto, how refreshing was it to see someone like Max from Happy Endings or Kanji from Persona 4? It’s simply a desire to showcase another side of the gay community, not to showcase a “correct” side.

My second reaction is one of disappointment. I can understand that previous wounds from past experiences may not have healed for these guys, and they may be extremely sensitive about the subject, but to lash out on a guy that clearly meant well without doing any research on him was uncalled for. I also find it extremely insensitive to accuse gay men that would agree with Sterling of adhering to cultural hegemony. Do gay men that don’t relate to many of the gay characters we see in media today not deserve characters to relate to themselves? How can more feminine gay men say that they are simply being themselves, then turn around and accuse less feminine gay men of adhering to cultural hegemony?

Sterling and Meadows have since talked it out and reached an understanding, but why did this exchange and knee-jerk reaction happen in the first place?

I wouldn’t describe myself as a masculine person in the least bit, but seeing Max from Happy Endings for the first time filled me with joy. It was like a breath of fresh air, seeing how much of a sloppy, lazy slacker he was. Is it really such a tragedy that people want to see more gay characters that have less feminine traits? Is it really so terrible that some gay men want to see gay characters that are more like them? I mean... isn't that what we all want in the end? Gay, lesbian, black, Hispanic, whatever. All of us minorities just want some representation and to see characters that are just... like us.



Attached photos:

Photo

Is this post awesome? Vote it up!

8

Those who have fapped:  Jack The Ripper  


Post a comment! You can also post a photo below:

Comment with Facebook





Click connect and comment instantly!

Comment with Dtoid





New? SIGN UP - it takes 5 seconds

13 comments | showing # 1 to 13
prev next

Jonathan Holmes's Avatar - Comment posted on 01/03/2012 18:03
Jonathan Holmes
I have little interest in seeing characters in movies or games that are just like me. For one, that's never going to happen (i mean, just look at me). For two, I get plenty of me up in my brain as it is.

What I want is to get to know artists through their art, beit comics, movies, games, or otherwise. I wouldn't want Nathan Drake to be gay just because I like the idea. I'd like him to be gay only if that's what the game's creators intended.

That said, unless the devs of Uncharted do something to make Nathan Drake feel more interesting or genuine, I'm never going to be able to get into that series. It would be a little cliche to have him come out of the closet in order to give his character some depth, but it wouldn't be half as cliche as all the other stuff he does in his games.
Jack The Ripper's Avatar - Comment posted on 01/03/2012 18:14
Jack The Ripper
I know I sometimes like to see a white, straight guy like me in a game, though not all the time. Most times I could care less, but it's always cool to point at a character in a game and say, "Hey! That's so and so!" or "Damn! That's so me!"

I about died laughing at the end of Metroid. It was a brilliant twist and I KNEW people who would take it personally. I feel sorry for those people. It's a game. It's a character. It's not you.
Kaggen's Avatar - Comment posted on 01/03/2012 18:15
Kaggen
Great blog, interesting discussion , I see where those guys are coming from but I agree that it seems harsh to bash people who only mean well , I mean there isn't a "correct" person out there, we are all different no matter what :P
sheppy's Avatar - Comment posted on 01/03/2012 18:21
sheppy
Methinks Johnathon Holmes has little experience with actual pulp from which Uncharted is heavily derived. Nathan Drake is a byproduct of pulp, and was never intended as anything more. Which is good because Pulp had been remarkably absent from video gaming for a while. Contemporary examples of Nathan Drake's archetype would be Indiana Jones, Rick O'Connell, and Sky Captain. From his sources, Nathan Drake is absolutely flawless in his execution and would fit easily within the bounds of such fantasy worlds of the old serials. Removed from that context, however, he is a cliche that sticks to its roots. As a character design, he fits the ACTUAL design and if you're not into that, well, they can't really help you.

Or put another way, if a child draws a duck, will you really hold it against them because it wasn't a crane? After all, I really dig cranes... not so much on the duck love. Or course they can ALWAYS get my attention much more readily if they drew a crane instead of a duck but then what about all those other people who REALLY like ducks? Screw em, I want my crane...
Euthanasian's Avatar - Comment posted on 01/03/2012 18:23
Euthanasian
I get what you're saying, Jonathan. I do get that a lot of people don't care about the character they're playing as, but rather relate to the experience as a whole. But I remember how much I loved Jade Empire, not only because it was a quality game, but because I felt... validated? Seeing a Western game with Asian heroes was something new to me at the time, and I adored it. Probably in the same way that Avatar: The Last Airbender resonated with Asians (BUT NOT THE MOVIE). I think gay youth growing up without many role-models would really appreciate seeing heroes like them, you know?
Chris Carter's Avatar - Comment posted on 01/03/2012 18:27
Chris Carter
I like good characters. I don't care of their gay, straight or bi; as long as their good.

I hope people stop caring so much about labels like these in the future (we'll have to wait for the baby boomers to die, really). Until the older generation dies off, you'll always have bigoted hatred for whatever was cool to hate in their generation.

@Holmes
Enh. You missed the part where the Uncharted series still consists of good *games* :D - Personally, I don't need every single hero to be interesting or break a new mold every title. If I did, I wouldn't play 90% of action games released these days.

IMO, even a lot of Japanese games have a lack of character in this market. I'd go so far good as to say that Garcia Hotspur was just a generic amalgamation of "HOTBLOODED SPANISH STUD". I LOVED the game, but IMO, the character blew.

In fact, one of the only characters in the action genre in recent memory that jumps out at me off hand is Travis Touchdown - mainly because of the fact that he was much more than just a horny Otaku - he had depth, emotions, and it was ironic that he wasn't really bad looking.
Chris Carter's Avatar - Comment posted on 01/03/2012 18:54
Chris Carter
as long as they're good.
Euthanasian's Avatar - Comment posted on 01/03/2012 19:01
Euthanasian
Oh for sure. They have to be good. Tacked-on, token characters are usually unappreciated regardless... I don't think very many gay people enjoyed Makoto from Enchanted Arms lol
bbain's Avatar - Comment posted on 01/03/2012 20:18
bbain
The only good "gay" video game character that I can even think of is Kanji from Persona 4, and I use quotation marks because I'm not convinced he was actually even gay. I think he was just confused. But regardless, his character and Naoto's character brought up some very good thoughts regarding gender and sexuality.

I think it would be hard to create a good gay character unless the game was centered around relationships specifically, like Persona 4 was. Otherwise, I'm certain it would just feel tacked on. I don't think suddenly making Nathan Drake gay would be a good idea, unless it had been planned from the start of the series. I dunno though, I'm sure we'll see some gay protagonists in the future, and they may or may not be good characters. We'll just have to wait and see what happens.
Elsa's Avatar - Comment posted on 01/04/2012 11:13
Elsa
Excellent blog and I think that diversity is the key. If all gay characters are portrayed the same way then they become a stereotype - and stereotypes of any sort are simply boring.
horseflesh's Avatar - Comment posted on 01/04/2012 16:29
horseflesh
I've read all of the articles in question, though not Jim Sterling's Google+ page, and I have to say I'm not especially in love with Jim Sterling's opinion though my reasoning is a little bit different.

The issue of homosexuality is a complicated issue, and because of this, I think tacking it on (which is how I think it would come across were they to make this change now. hitherto there hasn't been any hint that he is gay, making this a kind of artificial switch, requiring more rationalization than one would want for it to be convincing) But also, it's a mainstream title made by a now popular developer. The decision to make him straight isn't to dismiss gays, but a decision by the developer to make him have broad based appeal. And without a real need, or it's serving a kind of function, appending the character with homosexuality is probably going to cause a kind of, well, It's sort of like breast implants on a dog.

You largely end up thinking, "Why the fuck did you put breast implants on a dog?" That is to say it doesn't further anything other than to appease a handful of people by having a well-loved hero usurped into a contentious role that serves them. They may get off on having breasts on a dog, but most people still just think it's fucking weird. Because it would be an afterthought and only function with hefty rationales holding it together, because if you go back there is no hint of this in the game previously.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not opposed to main characters being gay, That would not deter me from playing it at all. In fact, I want, for young gay people to have their role models, but tacking it on to an existing high profile title, whithout any "real" point or poignance...I think will end up being a bigger disaster than solution. I think you're going to alienate the mainstream audience, likely without making a compelling homosexual character.

Written while largely drunk and in this fucking text-entry field, so deal with it.
Nihil's Avatar - Comment posted on 01/05/2012 03:38
Nihil
Both you and Holmes are right, because it's not one thing or the other, its both. You're going to want to see a minority character akin to yourself, if you yourself are different from everything else you've seen. Alternatively, if you consider yourself a regular joe, you'd be more inclined to appreciate a personality and/or culture different from yours, and hopefully it's portrayed with a good amount of respect and accountability, so as to maybe learn something from it.

Depends on whether its the artist's desire to inform, rather than to entice.
DrButler's Avatar - Comment posted on 01/06/2012 22:25
DrButler
Why does everyone hate Jim? Because he uses a cocky facade, and expresses valid opinions? Are people unfamiliar with the idea of acting like a dick because it's funny? He's just playing a character.
prev next

Comment with Facebook





Click connect and comment instantly!

Comment with Dtoid





New? SIGN UP - it takes 5 seconds

Comments policy

Destructoid is an open discussion community. You don't need to "audition" to post a comment - just speak your mind. We respect differing opinions on the site, so have at it. Be smart, funny, insightful, clueless, or cute -- but back it up with substance. Keep your cool, keep it fun. We only ask that you act respectfully and above all: don't be a troll and ruin it for everyone else. Don't bring down gamers or we'll, you know, gently shoot you in the face and stuff you into a flaming mailbox. Each comment is your opportuntity to make this community awesomer. Is that even a word?

Avoiding the banhammer only requires common sense: spamming, trolling, racism, NSFW stuff, and other forms of sucking will not be tolerated. If anyone is griefing please report abuse. Be good. Don't suck!