Hey guys, it's Dan or as everyone here knows me (including you, because you're looking at my blog), EternalDeathSlayer. Yeah, I jacked it from Grandma's Boy, eat me. Anyway, I love video games, but more importantly I also love to talk about video games, hence why I am here on Destructoid with you. I've got a wonderful little family of 2 kids and a wife and we all play games in some shape or form. My wife enjoys WoW (probably a bit too much) and playing Halo with either myself or her friends. My kids like kid stuff like Kinectimals or flash games on the PC. And me? I like almost everything. So long as a game is fun or has the ability to effect my feelings or emotions, I'm game.
Consoles:
Xbox 360
PS3
Wii
I play them all, but truthfully it's not in an "All Consoles are Equal" sort of way. I prefer the 360, mainly because I know more people who own one, but I do play my PS3 whenever a worthy exclusive is released. The exclusives make the purchase worth it. As for the Wii, well, it gets ignored most of the time. But I pull it out from time to time, usually when a big Nintendo game is released for it.
My Favorite Games:
10. Uncharted: Drake's Fortune
9. Gears of War
8. Metal Gear Solid 3: Snake Eater (Theme Song FTW)
7. Final Fantasy IX
6. God of War
5. Super Mario Galaxy
4. Chrono Cross
3. Super Mario Bros. 3
2. Uncharted 2: Among Thieves
1. Resident Evil 4
And there you have it. I love Destructoid and it's amazing community. I will probably never leave.
So I'm sitting here at work and I'm trying to quit smoking, thinking about all types of dumb shit. Reading the C-blogs, looking for some interesting shit. Of course, Excremento comes through with the goodness, something worth reading. It gets me thinking about my wife and gaming, which leads to my kids. Should I let them play games when they get older? Maybe make them wait until they're older before I purchase them a console? Tough decision.
My wife has said from day one, no consoles until they're at least 14. But you gamers know this is unrealistic. How would it be possible if I myself own all the systems at any given time? She says stick with the portables until they're older, but will that be enough? I would honestly feel bad if I got to play the Xbox 720 or whatever it is while they were stuck with the DS 2 or some shit. Portables are great, but that's all they really are: Portable games. They just don't compare to the real deal in the end, especially in the eyes of an impressionable child.
Then there's also the question of what games to allow? I used to think parents should never worry about the ratings, but then I had kids myself. Plus, I've seen my brother grow from a baby to a teenager and seen the effect being a hardcore gamer has had on his upbringing. My own mother let me play whatever I wanted, and I remember Mortal Kombat II as being the first bloody game I ever recieved, as a B-Day present from Grandma. I didn't realize at the time that the game really wasn't that great, but I loved the gore and blood like many young kids did. I ended up being a bit fucked up, as I was quite the agressor in my Elementary and Middle School days.
Conversely, my little brother was not allowed to play violent games really. Some did slip by dear old mom, but he wasn't into them as much because of his lack of access to them. He stuck with Nintendo games, which my mother was ok with. But when I let him play my copy of GTA3 and she heard the dialogue and saw what was happening, she went berserk. Frankly, after dealing with my ass getting thrown out of school for serious personal injury to a fellow student, I don't blame her. And the great thing is, he turned out ok. He's not violent at all, just a regular teen who says and does stupid shit. He listens to rock, I listened to rap. You know, the music filled with violence and hatred towards women and white people. So I definitely feel it matters what you let them play.
I figure if anything, we'll start where I did: With my old pal Mario. He's not violent or bloody, and the games are fun and simple enough. The only thing with that is the addiction factor. I'd be afraid my kids would enjoy Mario games so much they would become video game fanatics in no time at all. Keep in mind, they are both under 3 years old, a boy and a girl. But time flys when you're a dad, so I know my son will be 5 and 6 before I know it. He absolutely loves to dance when my wife plays Guitar Hero 3, and he enjoys watching me play most Nintendo games. We even let him think he's helping her play the Guitar in GH3 sometimes, something he gets a big kick out of. And when she wasn't around, I did some WarioWare mini-games with him, let him try and hold the remote to his nose and shit. He loved it, laughed his little butt off. I really enjoy the interaction even at such a basic level. It reminds me of when my dad played with me.
Dear old Dad and I used to play A Link to the Past together. He helped me with the tough spots, and sat and watched intently while I played. We took turns if I couldn't beat a boss or whatnot. Those were great times. But as I got older, it stopped. I don't blame him, as today's games are not for him. He wouldn't have been able to play the games that were around when I was a teenager. But I remember the old days so fondly. I sometimes hope to have the same bond with my son, but keep it going. I would certainly enjoy playing a game like Halo with him when he's a teenager, as violence is generally ok with me at that point. But the wife is making this tough for me. Who knows really? It's a touchy subject, one that could have any number of different effects on his development and upbringing. But I have to be real careful, otherwise I might end up with a kid like this:
I think I would shoot myself if this was my kid.
Anyway, what do you think out there in Dtoid land? What's an appropriate age or appropriate games?
BTW, I'm only 20, will be 21 on December 10th. Just to give you some perspective on how my life and mind work.
my parents began by letting us watch them play mario 3 and link to the past. then when we got 5-7 they let us start actually picking what we wanted to play as opposed to just turning sonic or mario world on for us. but todays games are way diffrent. you will probably have to do it like movies, let them play their kiddie platformers and keep the games with the naughty bits hidden
As long as you're monitoring what you kids are playing, I don't see any reason why they shouldn't be allowed to play console games. Use the ESRB as a guideline, but make your own judgement call based on your individual kids. Some children have a harder time separating fantasy from reality than others. Some can handle violence better, some can't. Play with your kids, and keep the M rated titles out of their reach until you think they're old enough.
“I don’t need help and support. I don’t need help! I don’t need help!”
Yeah, you do, buddy. You most definitely do.
Anyway, about your question...I say, let ’em start young. Seriously. I got an NES when I was 3, and it didn’t fuck me up. Just make sure not to get them any violent games. I played Super Mario Bros. 3 on the NES, and then played games like Sonic 2 and Aladdin on the Genesis. I mean, yeah, I also played Mortal Kombat II and Street Fighter II, but I was smart enough to understand the difference between real and cartoon violence by then (I was around 7 or 8). You just have to watch your kids, and by then, you’ll be able to tell if they can handle the more violent games. I don’t think there’s any real reason to limit your kids to handhelds as opposed to consoles...I mean, it’s not like there isn’t a Syphon Filter game on the PSP...
@ Mxyzptlk: This is very true. Each kid is different. The only problem is I have two kids, so I have to use the same rules for both. But my younger one is a girl, so who knows if she'll even be into them. Who am I kidding? Her mom and dad both play, she'll probably play too.
Also, my cousin had the same problem but his wife let him give the kids a super nintendo and a genesis. But now a days its probably cheaper to go with the gba ports and gamecube gba player
@ BronxBomber: Well, their is quite a difference between say a DS and a PSP though. I wouldn't get the kids a PSP, it would be a DS all the way. Nintendo is for the children.
@jdub: Well, I could just let them start with an NES. I've got two of em, so I really wouldn't care if they broke one when they're like 3 or 4. But my son already seems like a good candidate for ADHD and Bi-Polar, two problems his mom has. I'm just ADHD. I know, we're a bad combo.
Well, being 17 I don't really know what it's like to have kids, but I remember, my dad used to play games with me, things like the Genesis, those were some great times. I really wish he'd be into them more now but no. I think you should play with him, it's a really great way to bond, I'd just restrict play time to around a half hour a day. Don't want any addictions :P.
@Macca: Play time restrictions are probably a good idea with my son. Who knows what my daughter will be like in a few years though. Definitely a half an hour, maybe 45 minutes. My mother still can't get my brother off the Xbox when she asks. He just ignores her and plays all fucking day and night.
I'd say start them out with classics - give them an NES, give them a few simple games and let them have more complicated ones as they age. Maybe for the next Christmas or birthday, upgrade them to an SNES. That way they'll have more of an appreciation for the oldschool stuff, and build a decent history of gaming.
Half hour a day sounds really strict. Maybe give them 1-2 hours during leisure time or as a reward (if they get good grades, for example). Play with them. 1-2 hours won't build an addiction, and it keeps them from getting bored with the same games quickly.
And stay away from that videogame learning shit that soccermoms push on everyone. That stuff sucks. You can introduce them to some good old fashioned RPGs to increase their vocabulary, however!
I play for far too long, but that's more of a lifestyle choice on my end. I think 30 minutes to an hour would be a good place to start, especially then you can increase it as a reward like Kittypie says. Games like Ratchet and Clank, and the Jak and Daxter series are really good, the learning curve shouldn't be too steep either, and if they get stuck, you can help.
Well, by the time they are old enough for games like Jak and Daxter, I'd imagine we'll be saying the same things about something else. My son is only 2 after all. But who knows? I'll probably start with Mario 1 2 and 3 for the NES, then let them move up to the SNES games and go from there, if we let them play at all.
@ xper: I don't want to start a flamewar here, but I think you're wrong. Sure, video games are not solely to blame. Violent movies and music helped also. Plus, I was just fucked up. But I feel that violent media definitely has an effect on young kids. Most aren't truly changed by it, but if you're already a little screwy, then they dont help. Let's not pretend I didn't kick that kid in the face in the 4th grade because I thought I was Liu Kang, because that's probably why I did. Of course, I also wanted to be Batman and throw people off the roof like in the first movie. Well, let them fall at least.
I started playing games when I was around your son's age but If I have to pick a right age I would pick the 10 or 13 age line. 8 at the youngest. There is one thing you can do with games. I assume you got a DS so I would pick up Brain Age and Brain Age 2 and get him started on that at 7 or 5. it's a bit addicting but you get smarter or your brain works a bit faster I dont know which. My parents did not care which games I play so when I was eight I played the Mortal Kombat games and I turned out just fine. I never got arrested, never did drugs, I did drink once to see what beer tasted like and it sucked. So what ever you and your wife desides pick the right games first like Zelda and Mario and leave Solid Snake or Master Chef alone for a bit longer...
You know, the more I think about it, the more I'm starting to feel like music was the worst influence on me. It's pathetic, but I would never have experimented with drugs in HS if my favorite rappers didn't talk about them. Eminem used to mention so many drugs, and he seemed like he really really liked them. So I would research how dangerous they are and try them. Thank God for the internet. It says Heroin is really bad, but coke only bad if you have lots of money and no control. That's what the internet told me. And it's actually quite true.
this is interesting, as i've never come across a person with this mentality before. are you a republican? you gotta be conservative at least? christian? i know somethings fishy here...
anyway, some persons are manipulated easier than others. thats true, but to blame the media, and music of all things, is like blaming that cat you saw beating up another cat for kids shooting up their schools. ever seen that simpsons episode where homer goes on a... is it lion hunt or soemthing? i don't recall too well... and lisa tries to explain to homer that by his arguments this stone here is causing these problems because if i get rid of this stone the problems stop.
what i'm saying is, what i said. stop making generalizations like that because you're whats causing your own kids to go blow up their goddamn schools. are you that guy on tv that blamed marilyn manson for every crime ever committed by a teenager? stop being that guy, please
No, it's not the artist's fault. Not at all. I'm just saying that some people can be easily influenced. I was one of those people. After going through high school, and now having 2 kids, I certainly don't follow others anymore or anything. It's not the fault of the games or the music, more the fault of the parents who don't regulate shit. Yes, I'm a republican actually. They save me moneyon taxes, so I could care less for the dems way of thinking. But everybody is entitled to their own opinion, so whatever.
my first system was an SNES i got on xmas when i was....fuck...i don't remember...but anyways.. One of my professors plays mario party with his son who is 4 years old. The important thing is that if you do get a console for your kids regardless of age, is that they understand what they're playing and what they're allowed to play. I don't think my teacher is going to let his son play manhunt 2 anytime soon, plus the game is M rated.
I honestly don't remember my gaming route as I was growing up, but I was basically exposed to whatever held my interest. But then again, at the time, the library out today was not the library back then.
I think my friend's family followed one simple rule. Rule out games that involve the killing, or deaths, of human beings. That seems sound enough to me. I mean I always was involved in fantasy games, I can't recall the first game I ever played that involved the killing/deaths of human being characters.
I was always into like.. Megaman, Mario Bros., eventually getting into Secret of Mana, etc. After that, I honestly think it's fine to jump into any other game, as long as you sort of play along with them and guide them along what they are comprehending you know?
I mean eventually I got into games like Grand Theft Auto 3, and as much as I enjoy batting a virtual, fictitious hooker with a baseball bat, I would never lay a hand (or a bat) on a human being in real life in such a manner (excluding special circumstances like defending myself, etc.)
I'm kind of drunk so I don't know if any of that made sense, I can't really recall what I just typed, but I hope it helped you in some way, shape, or form.
I would personally get your children involved with Smash Brothers Melee, because that game is just awesome, and if you start 'em now, they could be like, sweet prodigies in no time.
Alright, I feel like I've used way too many commas, so I'm going to end here, I promise.
I would never bat a hooker either. I dont think so, at least. LoL. As for the Melee reference, dont think so. I'm not training my kids to be the next Team Final Boss or some shit like that.
The fact is, you know games. You're on Dtoid, so you know what makes a game suitable for kids. You're not the kind of parent that's going to have any kind of problem with what you let your kids into.
It's the parents that are just ignorant of games altogether that get all the problems. I can't honestly envisage you letting your kids play Call of Duty 4 when they're nine, or something, y'know?
Besides, if you only let them near kid-friendly games, you've got a FANTASTIC excuse to play Galaxy/Zack and Wiki etc.
@ Toxic Prince: This is true pretty much. But I like guidance and other people's opinions. I value the communities thoughts on different subjects. And yes, I would have a great excuse to play those games. My kids are bit young yet, but my son is utterly fascinated by the 360 remote. The Wiimote is like any tv remote to him, but he loves that big white controller with the green lights. He want's to play with it, but I won't give him my broken wired one for fear of choking.
just a side note for me to be a complete asshole here...
you blame videogames for children's behavior when you, yes you, sent bombs over baghdad killing 100000 innocent people? who do you think has the most influence? i would like to say marilyn manson, videogames and jean claude van damme, but i'm gonna go with you.
Dude, chill out. Read the comment, I said I don't blame the artist for the problems. It's not Marilyn Manson's fault that kids shoot up the classroom. It's the kids and the parents fault. Some kids take shit too seriously, dont know where fantasy ends and reality begin. Let's not get into politics right here. This is neither the time nor the place for that discussion. I don't blame games or any form of media for societies problems. I just think certain people are more impressionable than others. So relax.
I'm lucky my parents just wanted me to have fun. Obviously when I had exams and such coming up they limited my play time but not drastically.
Been playing since I was remember, maybe 3 or 4? Hasn't effected me since.
that was uncalled for. but you did make that argument in your post. now we agree, apparently... so i'm confused. maybe i'm putting words in your mouth, but your arguments confuse me. i wouldn't mind you explaining your point one more time
But honestly, if it was my kids, I'd go with common sense. Whilst simultaneously raising them to KNOW the difference between fantasy and reality, I'd let them run wild on anything that's not rated above their age.
If they want to play a Japanese train simulator, let them go for it. If they seriously want to play My Horse And Me, well, that'd probably kill me, but let them at it.
Alright, I can't deny I'd be trying to indoctrinate them with scores of Retro games, but if they're not into it, I won't mind. Much.
I mean, ok. So my firstborn will be named Link, but...
@ xper: Ok, here it is. I feel that a game like GTA in the hands of a 5 year old could be dangerous. Could be. It's probably not beneficial no matter what, but if the kid is already predisposed to problems, like my kid(Remember, my wife is Bi-Polar and ADHD. 50/50 chance your kids will be). He's absolutely fine, no signs really of a problem but then he's only 2. Also, impressionable people who are easily influenced by others can be dangerous if given access to the wrong things at the wrong times. I never really wanted to hurt someone because of violent games or movies, but I do feel that by listening to rap music as youngster it influenced some of my (bad) decisions in the past. I said, I probably wouldnt have tried so many different drugs as a teen if not for rappers like Eminem telling me they love ecstacy and uppers and downers and shit. But, let's be honest. My brother was a drug addict, still is sort of, and he influenced me as well. Luckily I learned from him, but Eminem didn't help. It's not Em's fault though, he never told my mom to let me listen to him, in fact told her not to. So I'm not blaming games or game makers, as they are only doing their jobs or whatever. It's only if the games are given to the wrong people at the wrong time can it have a bad effect. Of course, some people don't let anyone or anything influence them and those people are just fine.
@sTo0z:
I totally agree with what you said about only violence against humans being bad, but I would take it a step further, like Wired's Clive Thompson did, i.e. violence against humans can be okay, if it's like pirates or knights or stuff. No CoD or Battlefield for the small ones (;
Also, mad props to your typing and grammar. Many people type worse when they're sober than you do when you're drunk ^.^"
@EDS:
I think starting them on retro systems is probably the best idea... I started playing on my dad's PC (I don't know which processor, but it had a turbo button...), and it actually made me learn things about DOS, a bit of English (I'm from Germany).
Yes, like I said, probably gonna let my son play the NES when he's around 4 years old, if the wife allows it. She definitely wears the pants in this one. Hey, she's Bi-Polar. I dont fuck with her.
but thats some extreme cases. making the argument that gta is bad for a 5 year old would win you every applaud in the room. i haven't listened to eminem, for example, but i'm pretty sure eminem doesn't advertise drugs as a good thing.
anyway, we're just going around in circles here. we both agree kids are impressionable. there. fin
@ xper: I agree, going in circles. And for the record, if I remember correctly, Eminem really did make drugs look fucking awesome. Made you wanna feel what he was talking about. Of course, I was smoking pot already so maybe it was just the whole gateway drug thing. Nahh....Fuck that, it was the rappers. LoLs
come to think about it.. bowie made me take astro taaaabs ohh yeaaahhh. it was such an artificial high.... he got everyone into drugs. eminem hasn't got shit against bowies drug propaganda
LoL, probably not. Eminem just straight up said "I Love Ecstacy" and shit like that. These drugs feel so good. So we tried em, like stupid teenagers thinking we were untouchable, that nothing bad could happen. Dumbasses we were.
I guess get them a Wii when they're youngish, and maybe a 360 in their teens. My little nine year old brother very rarely gets to play games, but occasionally I let him play Halo, or something else violent. It's pretty rare, like once a month, and he's fine, not fucked up at all. Even violent games can be ok in moderation for kids.
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“I don’t need help and support. I don’t need help! I don’t need help!”
Yeah, you do, buddy. You most definitely do.
Anyway, about your question...I say, let ’em start young. Seriously. I got an NES when I was 3, and it didn’t fuck me up. Just make sure not to get them any violent games. I played Super Mario Bros. 3 on the NES, and then played games like Sonic 2 and Aladdin on the Genesis. I mean, yeah, I also played Mortal Kombat II and Street Fighter II, but I was smart enough to understand the difference between real and cartoon violence by then (I was around 7 or 8). You just have to watch your kids, and by then, you’ll be able to tell if they can handle the more violent games. I don’t think there’s any real reason to limit your kids to handhelds as opposed to consoles...I mean, it’s not like there isn’t a Syphon Filter game on the PSP...
ZOMG, Barbie Horse Adventures....
Half hour a day sounds really strict. Maybe give them 1-2 hours during leisure time or as a reward (if they get good grades, for example). Play with them. 1-2 hours won't build an addiction, and it keeps them from getting bored with the same games quickly.
And stay away from that videogame learning shit that soccermoms push on everyone. That stuff sucks. You can introduce them to some good old fashioned RPGs to increase their vocabulary, however!
that said, monitor your children's behavior and take guidance from the esrb's labeling.
this is interesting, as i've never come across a person with this mentality before. are you a republican? you gotta be conservative at least? christian? i know somethings fishy here...
anyway, some persons are manipulated easier than others. thats true, but to blame the media, and music of all things, is like blaming that cat you saw beating up another cat for kids shooting up their schools. ever seen that simpsons episode where homer goes on a... is it lion hunt or soemthing? i don't recall too well... and lisa tries to explain to homer that by his arguments this stone here is causing these problems because if i get rid of this stone the problems stop.
what i'm saying is, what i said. stop making generalizations like that because you're whats causing your own kids to go blow up their goddamn schools. are you that guy on tv that blamed marilyn manson for every crime ever committed by a teenager? stop being that guy, please
I think my friend's family followed one simple rule. Rule out games that involve the killing, or deaths, of human beings. That seems sound enough to me. I mean I always was involved in fantasy games, I can't recall the first game I ever played that involved the killing/deaths of human being characters.
I was always into like.. Megaman, Mario Bros., eventually getting into Secret of Mana, etc. After that, I honestly think it's fine to jump into any other game, as long as you sort of play along with them and guide them along what they are comprehending you know?
I mean eventually I got into games like Grand Theft Auto 3, and as much as I enjoy batting a virtual, fictitious hooker with a baseball bat, I would never lay a hand (or a bat) on a human being in real life in such a manner (excluding special circumstances like defending myself, etc.)
I'm kind of drunk so I don't know if any of that made sense, I can't really recall what I just typed, but I hope it helped you in some way, shape, or form.
I would personally get your children involved with Smash Brothers Melee, because that game is just awesome, and if you start 'em now, they could be like, sweet prodigies in no time.
Alright, I feel like I've used way too many commas, so I'm going to end here, I promise.
It's the parents that are just ignorant of games altogether that get all the problems. I can't honestly envisage you letting your kids play Call of Duty 4 when they're nine, or something, y'know?
Besides, if you only let them near kid-friendly games, you've got a FANTASTIC excuse to play Galaxy/Zack and Wiki etc.
you blame videogames for children's behavior when you, yes you, sent bombs over baghdad killing 100000 innocent people? who do you think has the most influence? i would like to say marilyn manson, videogames and jean claude van damme, but i'm gonna go with you.
Been playing since I was remember, maybe 3 or 4? Hasn't effected me since.
that was uncalled for. but you did make that argument in your post. now we agree, apparently... so i'm confused. maybe i'm putting words in your mouth, but your arguments confuse me. i wouldn't mind you explaining your point one more time
eternaldeathslayer, we have a conundrum...
But honestly, if it was my kids, I'd go with common sense. Whilst simultaneously raising them to KNOW the difference between fantasy and reality, I'd let them run wild on anything that's not rated above their age.
If they want to play a Japanese train simulator, let them go for it. If they seriously want to play My Horse And Me, well, that'd probably kill me, but let them at it.
Alright, I can't deny I'd be trying to indoctrinate them with scores of Retro games, but if they're not into it, I won't mind. Much.
I mean, ok. So my firstborn will be named Link, but...
Oh, dammit.
I totally agree with what you said about only violence against humans being bad, but I would take it a step further, like Wired's Clive Thompson did, i.e. violence against humans can be okay, if it's like pirates or knights or stuff. No CoD or Battlefield for the small ones (;
Also, mad props to your typing and grammar. Many people type worse when they're sober than you do when you're drunk ^.^"
@EDS:
I think starting them on retro systems is probably the best idea... I started playing on my dad's PC (I don't know which processor, but it had a turbo button...), and it actually made me learn things about DOS, a bit of English (I'm from Germany).
but thats some extreme cases. making the argument that gta is bad for a 5 year old would win you every applaud in the room. i haven't listened to eminem, for example, but i'm pretty sure eminem doesn't advertise drugs as a good thing.
anyway, we're just going around in circles here. we both agree kids are impressionable. there. fin