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Why does it annoy me so much that Olivia Munn has a playboy cover, or when I wander onto a female gamer's website and they have half-dressed slutty pictures of themselves? It's not jealousy and it's not that I'm prudish - I think it's because I was raised in an era of women's liberation and I believe that in gaming women can compete with men on a level playing field. When I see these pictures, to me it's like they're saying "... here's some sleazy pictures of me to look at - so you'll like me". To me it seems like a cop out.
While women can bring a different perspective to gaming shows, reviews and game blogs, I don't think that it need be an overtly sexual presence - I don't see many gamer guys decorating their blogs with pictures of themselves in various states of undress, and strategically holding their PSP's to cover bits and pieces, or dangling a controller from the cord clenched in their teeth (Well, Wilbo being an apparent exception!) I think this is the same reason that all-girl clans or all-girl websites also bother me somewhat. Segregating ourselves as "special" or "different" in any way from other gamers seems to be saying that we require special accomodations... like women's sports where we may not have the physical strength of men and for the sake of fairness usually compete against each other. While it might make some women more comfortable entering the gaming world, video gaming seems to be an activity where we CAN compete on a level playing field - without the need for women's leagues, or the need to promote ourselves as eye-candy to be noticed. ... Now, does this mean I don't think that there are gender issues in gaming? No, I definitely do think that women should speak up about issues such as having female avatars, appropriate body images in avatars, strong female characters, and being able to play a game without being harassed because we are female - but I don't see this so much as a gender issue as much as I see it as a personal "gamer" issue. I have certain gaming preferences because I am female, just the same as a gay gamer might want to see less sexual-orientation stereotyping and harassment, or my nephews (who are part Korean) may want to see more playable Asian avatars. I guess this is frustration speaking... recently I've seen a lot of nasty pictures on grrrl gamer websites, grrl gamer competitions seem to be based on who has the sleaziest picture and I've noticed that G4TV persists in blending gaming information with "hot girls of the web' segments... like gaming and near naked women go together. It seems to create a demeaning stereotype where females in the gaming world are expected to be "hot eyecandy" and not actually gamers. In all reality, female gamers are just like guy gamers. Some are hot, some are not. They are young, old, married, single... they play Animal Crossing, Guitar Hero, and Killzone. Most don't game in their Victoria's Secret Underwear and neither are they fat, ugly and dateless. Just as the average "guy gamer" is not a pimply-faced, dateless 17 year old guy living in his parent's basement, eating pizza, and playing games 24/7 with a stack of girlie mags under the bed. Eh... I guess sex sells... but in the gaming industry, aren't they singing to the choir? Guys that play video games will continue playing video games. What about that other 50% of the population... does the industry not want their money? I'm not mad at the guys... hold up a naked picture of a female and most guys will look. I guess I'm mad at these women... and at Olivia. If she's going to wear a red bikini... at least wear it while playing in a COD4 tournament - you host a GAMING show! Quit selling out for the fast buck road to popularity and learn how to game. Quit making it more difficult for those women gamers who are out there... playing the games. I'm tired of getting asked if I'm hot when I play an online game. I'm tired of getting harassed by guys that seriously seem to think they might get some hot PSN sex if they chat me up in a game. I just want to yell "they took our flag" without some guy asking if I'm a girl... who cares... they took our flag! /incomprehensible, muddied, pent-up feelings of disappointment, frustration and rage rant. Ah well. At least I feel better for having gotten some of the frustration out. I realize there are other issues involved... but whether things like the Ubisoft Frag dolls have encouraged more women to try gaming... or just made it more difficult for those that already are gamers is just too difficult to get into now and this is just a fast personal rant to make me feel better. I'll probably even delete this blog later.
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AoTS is a pop culture show, kinda like a mix of Maxim and Wizard Magazine.
Now, with that out of the way. you answered the question yourself. Sex sells. Girls know this. Most guys think with their dick. It usually doesn't work with me, since I just see it for what it is, but it still works.
I also agree with your view on grrrrrl gamer groups. I know they want to be independant and all, but fuck, I need women, and I know women need me (figuratively speaking). Its the way it is. Also, the whole "girl gamer" thing is kinda pointless... because you don't walk around saying things like a girl soldier, a girl police officer, a girl lawyer... that shit just doesn't fly.
All that being said. I will still look for Olivia's pics, because she's super hot. Not because she's on a tv show... although that helps.
but this industry is here for money, and they will sell to whom ever buys their stuff.
a good example is the current "casual" games. just because ALOT of people are buying them doesnt mean EVERYONE wants it.
there will always be people for and against things. thats just how it is. and the best thing to do is ignore it and just go about your normal life/gaming. and enjoy what you like. not what others like.
I understand your frustration, which is completely justified, but the good thing to come out of this is more promotion for gaming culture. Sure, it's negative, and sleazily done, but at least there's a positive take on it! ;D
Really though, people always talk about how male-run companies exploit women. Women let themselves be a part of it! It's absolutely maddening that a few pigs and a few attention whores ruin it for women everywhere.
With the rise of voice chat within today's online games, I grow more hesitant to play them. Not every person I've played co-op is a moron, but it really ruins the experience on many levels when one is encountered. A lot of times I simply keep my headset on mute - I just don't want to deal with the BS.
Your words echo my sentiments exactly. I just want to play in relative peace.
Given time there will be more games developed by women (or worked on by more women) with female sensibilities in mind. Until then, fight the good fight but more importantly, have fun doing it.
Now Kristin Holt on the other hand...man, I'd let her beat me in MvC2 anytime...
Oh wait...I suck at MvC2...damnit....
But anyways, Munn's personality/model first, and everything else last. She's got multiple modeling deals from multiple agencies. It's her second job basically.
OK, I wouldn't. But still.
I don't know if it's appropriate to lump Olivia Munn in with the grrl gamers who try to get acceptance based on their looks. Only because Munn is obviously trying to get a foothold in the entertainment industry, and she is far from the only woman who has been in the pages of Maxim or Playboy in order to do so. If anything, it's a smart move for her to not be naked in Playboy, since that's never done anything for anyone's career.
I look at it like she's a television personality first, and possibly a gamer second (or third, fifth, seventy-first, I mean, is she even a gamer? who knows). I don't think she's really selling out, she's just trying to follow the same path that many others like her have taken to increased stardom.
And for the record, I like Attack of the Show and think Olivia Munn is amusing and attractive. I know that puts me in the minority here. :)
One thing I want to ask before I forget: I've read comments on here that Destructoid is allowing softcore porn/smut onto the site, like with the Olivia Munn story, or the Sexy Time feature header images, etc. Do you agree with this? I understand that the images in question all feature a woman in varying degrees of undress (or just-barely image covering), and while I disagree, I'd like to know your opinion on those.
That said, guys are stupid. Sorry guys, but it's the truth. A great lot of us would follow a barely-clothed woman if she beckoned towards us (which is how the aliens will take over the world), and it goes without saying that we're still the horny teens you went to high school with. This kind of thing is unfortunately natural. I mean, look at our society. Male-dominant. That's not an excuse for things continuing as they are, but...
Well, there was supposed to be a point there, but whatever. Moving on. I think girl gamers have to label themselves as such in order to differentiate themselves from the guys. "Here I am, I matter" kinda thing. Of course, there's no such thing as a guy gamer because that's sorta expected. But, are there not women professional basketball teams now? What about women football teams? Hockey? Etc. These are all 'guy' things and the women have to do something to lay claim to that, right? Of course, that in itself implies something else about the sport. Because women are involved, it's not as hard/doesn't matter/etc. Or so they say.
But some women are to blame too. Olivia Muun did this by choice, didn't she? But there are also plenty of women who take advantage of stupid guys. Tell me that you haven't heard of women (or even some guys) making an attractive nearly-nude avatar with massive boobs in some MMO and getting all sorts of loot out of guys? "will u b my girlfriend?" Why yes indeed, for absolutely everything you have (and I'll never see you again!) <3
So yeah, I didn't really have a point here. Just shooting the breeze to death.
Don't care. She's attractive. I look. Boobs. THE END
I like to talk when I game.. half the fun of online gaming is coordinating with your team. I like to yell for aircover when I'm running with the flag in Warhawk, or that I need someone to bring up a base as I'm bringing down another base... - I just hate being treated differently (and getting those stupid PSN notes that guys sometimes send).
I don't even actually mind Olivia on AOTS... at least she never seems to take herself too seriously, but unfortunately most gaming sites will doubtless now be graced by yet another bikini clad female and the association of "gaming and hot chicks" will be perpetuated yet again.
Eh... it's just frustrating. :(
@doomsday... regarding the stories on this site and the inclusion of softcore porn/smut - I don't agree or disagree with this, I'm not a prude, and I guess it depends on the current demographics of this site (and the demographics they hope to attract). I think the ESA's most recent info pegs the average gamer age at 35 - though that includes all forms of gaming (pc, consoles, flash games, etc), and it seems that most 35 year olds are a bit past the "smut" stage (or they can at least google the serious smut without needing to see it on sites relating to their hobby) - but I don't know the demographics of this particular blogging site and it could well be younger or more desperate men.
eh.. .if something bothers me I'm not one to hold back and will usually post a snarky comment!
I do notice that many seem to say that the "better" blogs get overlooked... that's a shame and I'm not personally detered by blog length or more complex thoughts (even if I don't totally understand what the author is saying). I've actually seen some excellent writing here!
Oh... and before someone says it.. yes, I do realize that my blogs are probably getting more comments because I'm a female. Sorry, can't help it. I blog because I enjoy writing, venting, ranting, thinking... I don't really care if anyone reads it or not - I'm retired from a career in Human Resources and am a housewife who cooks, cleans, gardens and games... and I like to write or read blogs to escape the cooking and cleaning bits! :)
(and wow... this comment is almost as long as my blog! LOL!)
No, I'm not going to make room for you on my buddy list cause you really, really, really want a grrl gamer on your list ( though a certified cheque might change my mind).
"though a certified cheque might change my mind"
Women will do anything for money. 'Nuff said. ;)
i wouldnt say ur blogs get more comments do to ur sex i think ur blogs are great i wish my intro could be as creative as urs whenever i get around to writing one that is
... but who's to say the cheque is for me? Maybe it's compensation for the person I'd have to bump off my buddy list.. who will never again be able to find me in a game and have me jump in their jeep and yell at them "I've got the flag... drive like a woman and get me to homebase!"
Maybe I'm just trying to be fair! :)
Truthfully, I do agree with you on most of your points. And I'm a straight male. What? I know. It's weird, Twilight Zone-y and all.
Women are objectified in just about every form of media. Movies, TV, especially music, and naturally games follows suit. I mean, come on. Apparently someone thought it was a good idea to give Dead or Alive Extreme Beach Volleyball a sequel. And then there's stuff like The Guy Game. Cue facepalm. I suppose that mentality leaks to women involved with gaming. For instance, Olivia Munn. Don't care about her, but she's somewhat related to gaming (if by association). And of course the target demographic is the 15-30ish age group, so why not have a hot girl on just to draw people?
Wasn't there some show that had a female co-host who rather obviously had no idea what she was talking about and was put on just for the eyecandy? Well, there were probably more, but hey. *shrugs*
Personally, I think your blogs getting additional information is a good thing. Not only are you providing the rarely-seen female perspective on things, but you also count because you're outside of the target age group, whatever it really is. Well, that, and you're a serious gamer too, not just someone who has those unique attributes who just so happens to play games every once in a while.
Not to imply that you're attention whoring or anything, but given who the rest of us are, it's only natural you'd stand out a bit, huh? =P
My sister is a huge shooter fan, and she experiences the same things. I'm a peaceful man, but I would have no compunction bruising up any number of 14 yr. old kids for saying the things they say to my sister on XBL.
At any rate, I don't think she's wrong for pandering to guys who are willing to part with hard-earned money for the "priviledge" of seeing her making sexy faces in a bikini. Makes me laugh, personally.
But I do think that how that crowd tends to behave towards other women online and in real life is a disgrace, and I can see your frustrations there.
My point is, put the blame on the guys acting like douche-nozzles; the Munns of the world are just making a quick buck off the easily exploited -- a fool and their money, and such.
Also, if you wanna be upset at someone, be upset at Morgan Webb, she is actually someone that people associate with video game and she had a column on FHM magazine where she posed in a bikini and gave types, that's selling yourself out.
I dunno. I can understand wanting to get paid big bucks but shouldn't dignity have a higher standing nowadays? Sure, I could have half a million dollars, but I'd stand the chance of always being known as that guy who ate bad cheese with worms crawling in it. Fat lot of good money does you when you make yourself into a pariah.
...though, people like you for the money, and not a lot of people watched Fear Factor anyway. And, I'm also derailing the train of thought here so I'll shut up. Honest! *cough*
LOL I wish that was all it took. I'm a girl and I only ever get a few replies. Granted I don't have an especially feminine user name, but I've been around long enough that at least some people should know by now.
Anyhow, on topic. Leave this up! I don't have a problem with Olivia doing her playboy thing because as many have pointed out she's more of a tv personality then a serious gamer so if she wants some publicity from playboy more power to her.
I'm more concerned with the chicks you mentioned who feel the need to show themselves half nude on their profiles just so they can feel special when guys leave them pervy comments. It's the same sadness I feel when I see little girls with shorts that say "juicy" on the ass. When did exploiting yourself as a sex object become the cool way of fitting in? I know that makes me sound old, but it just seems like these girls think the only way to get by in life is to get attention from random strangers for being trampy, cuz it makes them totally l337 and stuff. That is what really keeps other gamers from taking us seriously, because this stuff is so prevalent.
@Zodiac Eclipse- Dude, you're female? Time to go to your old blogs and get commentin'.
Yea she is somewhat associated with gaming, in the broadest sense of that phrase. And I don't see this as a negative sterotype of female gamers because I know she really isn't one, but I know there are others that don't know that and its unfortunate. I see this as an attention grabber for G4, something to boost ratings and for Munn to grab more exposure from an audience that might not know who she is. Its about getting her dollars up while she can as she tries to get into acting. I've seen some virals she has done on Funny or Die and correct me if I'm wrong she has a small role in that upcoming movie with the Supertrooper guys. She's looking to capitalize on her looks while she can until we've moved on to someone else, sad to say but its true.
I'm sure most people know guys who brag about their conquests. Oh, I've bagged X many females, or I've fucked X many in Y time, etc. Some of you very well may be those people! =P I think some women are either accepting their position as sex objects, or they're reveling in it, going so far as to use the man's behavior on other men themselves. What do we call female skirtchasers? Pantchasers?
Anyway, to clarify/get to the damn point: It seems that sex is something of being acceptable. I mean, ignoring the presence of alcohol, if someone's willing to have a go at you in bed, then that has to mean something, right? Some would say it makes them feel beautiful, others would say it makes them matter, and so on. I guess some get so attached to that, if they're not having sex/being whorish on a regular basis, they're no good. When it's not possible to be in bed all the time, you appear sexy/desirable at the very least to uphold that.
As for the little girls wearing that kinda crap, kill me now. It already disgusts me that the youngest age for sexual activity is dropping through the generations. I mean, they had to teach my class (some) sex ed when I was in grade school. I understand that's just a breezer course, but come on. Not even a teenager and learning about sex in that way?
*irrelevant wall-o-text over*
This is almost embarrassing. I didn't think I'd have so much to say about this blog. XD Sorry, sorry.
She didn't pose nude, so what's the problem?
No one forced her to do it.
Well, maybe money.
Anyway, I actually think Olivia can be rather cute and funny, from time to time, what I've seen of her on the show.
That is all.
Ask and ye shall receive!
Do people even still say 'skirtchasers'?
Men finally adjusted to caring at home and being around, then they got a computer so they wouldn't be out drinking in bars with friends, but at home. Yet they can still hang out with friends with there computers.
Traditionally, men are more "into" computers as they started with it on a wider basis and earlier. By now, high tech and computer/games stuff has just become another male dominated area of society. Having subgroups like gamer grrrrls indeed doesn't really do much to make them accepted by this male dominated culture; it only makes it harder for other females to be recognized outside of that perspective.
It's weird though, because women have a far greater power over men than vice versa, if only just because of genetics. Yet they only seem to generally use it for attention instead of control.
I've studied in 80%-90% female classes, and in general they are smarter, more communicative and more social than their male counterparts. But they are usually also too insecure to really take advantage of their power and position. One day they will realize it though, and men will be finished...
Till then, females just need better role models than slutty hot looking girls, who sell skin for attention and then fade out of knowledge. Men can just look at them for arousal, forget about them and move on to the next thing to look at. There's no real incentive to care about who they are or what they do, as gamer grrrls just come a dime a dozen and act in such a same way that it's hard to distinguish them or even care.
It's the same in the music industry or things like MTV, but at least there they have some women who do make a name for themselves and act however they want. Not just how male dominated society demands them to act. Just my two cents :P
In reality, most of my online gaming experiences have been positive. In fact I led a clan in last year's Warhawk tournament and had to co-ordinate with other clan leaders, gamers and GGL who ran the tourney. My being a female was never an issue and the only time it was even referenced was in a few after-game comments of "good game guys and gals". I've also never had a problem in UT3.
Most of the problems seem to arise in certain games *cough killzone/COD cough* In fact, I'm ashamed to say that the harassment actually made me stop playing COD4... though I recently joined in an unranked game with friends and am regretting that I didn't persevere and give the game more of a chance (it's a great game!)
... and @Riotmonster... yes, it's a tired subject... about as tired as the "got pics?" or "wanna videochat" messages that female gamers seem to continually receive (not to mention the pic attachments sent!) However, you had the option of avoiding this blog, whereas I never know what's in a PSN message until I click on it. :(
http://www.superherohype.com/news/ironmannews.php?id=8437
If you want to see women portrayed as more than sex objects, you should be talking to the women who CHOOSE to behave that way, not the guys who can't help but look (we really can't).
this is a fantastic article! I find myself making these same sorts statements all the time. I actually don't have a huge problem with Olivia Munn, mainly because I've only seen her function as a hot lady on g4 whereas if it had been Morgan Webb who was doing this, I would feel more uneasy. At the end of the day, Olivia's hot and she wants to go as far as she can with that. But I think we both know that that fact alone is not going to help with sniping some verbally abusive dick when in tf2 or cod .