This is being written in response to (yet another) .Examiner post here on Destructoid entitled "The Rise of Video Game Communities" that I won't link to because frankly the blog sucks. In it he states that these communites are springing up and we should give them a try. Gaming communities are NOT new.
Gaming communities were among the first to exist on the internet and have existed for many, many years initially in the form of MUD's (Multi User Dungeon) or MOOs (MUD, object oriented). This was when the internet was still text based and a "video card" was something yet to be invented or imagined (and I still remember that lovely glowing green text on the black screen of my handy Tandy computer!). With the growth of PC games and console games, gaming has always remained in some ways connected to the internet and gaming communities have always existed.
Often gaming communities were based around a specific game and consisted of little more than IRC chat rooms or forums. With the growth of the internet a vast array of options sprang up - magazine based gaming sites, social networking based gaming sites, console based forum sites, clan sites, personal sites... the range of options is overwhelming. Unfortunately, these vast options have led to profit based sites where the intimacy of those early communities became lost in the quest to get more people, more hits and more advertising dollars. Many of these larger sites have grown out of control where the average gamer is lost among professional writers, advertisements, and just the masses of so many people.
.. which brings me to Destructoid... while the news on the front page are stories or articles, meant to inform... the c-blogs or "community blogs" are blogs. They're meant to be people's thoughts on gaming... what they play, what they are anticipating, odd drunken thoughts or well crafted arguments. When reading somebody's blog... you get a bit of a sense of "who" that person is. Anyone who has read the mere 9 blogs I've posted on this site so far already knows that I'm female, old, married, have pets, no children, that I have young nephews, and that I like shooter games on a PS3. If they've seen my comments on other blogs... they likely have the impression of someone who types way too many words to say so little! Overall, people get an impression of "who" I am. It's the active participation that creates the "community" in community blogs. While people are learning about me... I'm also learning about them from their blogs, their comments. Blogging can be a great tool for forming and building a community... but as it grows it can soon start to attract that "profit" factor that seems the downfall of so very many gaming communities. The existing community soon becomes a target for people hoping to make money in some fashion be it selling the ubiquitous penile enhancement drugs or more insidious like gaming blogs meant to attract people to another site where the writer is paid for each hit. Again, the popularity of a community site begins to grow beyond "community" and soon it becomes difficult to find out about the individual members - who they are, and to form the relationships needed to maintain a "community" rather than being just another gaming site.
There are things that sites can do to maintain the community aspect... they can require a certain number of comments before allowing people to post a blog, they can use a community voting system to elevate community blogs and vote down blogs that they don't feel contribute to the community, they can use reputation systems, invite only systems for membership... many different techniques exist or can be created to maintain the community aspect of a community - but unfortunately problems often lie with the various solutions and in the end it comes down to what the site owner wants and not what the community wants.
The "rise" of video gaming communities was historically based on gamers. People sharing a passion for gaming. The "fall" of video gaming communities I think can be laid at the feet of people like our friends from .examiner - people looking to profit from our passion for gaming. My first experiences with internet communities were the old chat rooms... later it was small forums often devoted to only one game. For the last number of years I've been hidden away in a private site sponsored by Sony, but left out on it's own... untended and neglected and surviving based on the people and sense of community alone. It's sad in many ways... but I think that the true height of video gaming "communities" has now passed - finding a place where you know everybody and everybody knows you... these places rarely exist anymore. It's not just gaming sites though... it's life in general. The mom and pop store where they knew you is either slowly put out of business by the big box stores... or they grow to the point where they become a big box store.
I'm still fairly new to this community... and I looked at a lot of big cities and towns first before deciding to try settling down in this little village. It seems it's become a dog eat dog world out there... but it's nice to see that there are still a few dobermans in this community left to tear a chunk out of the ass of that predator walking around offering candy to the children. :)
It's an odd feeling for me. I know that people want to make a living, or a few extra dollars... and increasingly the internet is providing a medium for that - but I think in many ways it makes it so much more difficult to recapture that true sense of "community" of those early internet days when such a thing as "profit" just didn't exist.
Eh.. I'm old. I feel like I'm yelling at kids to git outta my yard.
that was a joke blog, but im glad you have jumped on the hate the examiner spam bandwagon
Elsa, I personally think you are the kind of person who makes the "rise of video game communities" possible. It's people like you who make places like the Dtoid cblogs so great. I just wanted to say thanks. :-)
Okay, okay... i'm getting out of your yard!
I think that even among all that chaos that videogames sites are, you have a couple of gems that have solid communities and aren't capitalist devils yet. Like Dtoid, for example.
PS: My first contact with the gaming community was with mIRC... good times...
It's the active participation that creates the "community" in community blogs.
Truer words have never been spoken. Another good read E.
My favorite term for the community has to have been "Waspnest". That was around the Luc Bernard kerfuffle, I think.
Dobermans though? i can dig it.
Community voting is something on the destructoid.com to do list (found on the "Feedback tab" in the blog section, on the right. I really do hope that comes into play at some point soon.
You got kids in your yard? Security Breach, yo.
In all, I just want people to talk games with each other, you can hate each other's opinions, you can side up against one another, you can call the people at Sonic Team complete idiots.
As long as you're talking video games, we're at least going to find time to enjoy them a bit as well.
I've been on the administrative side of a community going down the pan. I was brought in when we were already on the slide as I'd been organising some events.
The community was based around the Triple Triad X game/site and I got to see the staff boards towards the end of this site. Of particular interestwas the debate over whether we should ban a user who was seemingly ony on our forum to advertise his own rival (and truly, inferior) site. We didn't ban him and over 5 years after we shut down, he's still open.
Our community was stagnant and insular. Nobody new was coming in and the only things we were seeing were the usual birthday posts, 'forum games', trade offers and half-hearted clan business. Any real conversation or debate over the game just wasn't there any more. We closed rather suddenly and with little explanation, but it seemed to me that a combination of technical issues and the general fatigue of the community just got to the admins.
The new site got a big boost when we closed, recieving most of our refugee members and a lot of new blood, but it quickly deteriorated. The new enthusiasm didn't last and the community was rather toxic. I don't know what they expected, taking an existed community that was already tired and apathetic, to a new site which was bascally a blatant copy of the original.
Some people tried to spice it a couple of yers later with another site, but by this point the community was so entrenched in the second site that they didn't want to start over on the new one. The insular community and the hostility they showed to anyone new also drove away any new people the new site managed to attract. It was sad, because technically this new site was a lot mre advanced than any previous one and had an amazing set of features.
I visted the second site recently and it's gone from bad to worse, with even the clans section drying up. The game itself is rarely even palayed, except with cookie-cutter decks of cards (from about a thousand possible cards, most people now use the same 5-10 for every single match) and sets of rules. It is abysmal, but it lives.
A very influencial member, and creator of the advanced site I mentioned, is soon trying again, but I just don't see how he can survive by tapping that corpse of a community. He wants to get the big names of the old community. I really hope he doesn't even bother trying this time and instead tries to market his site to a new audience, going outside the incestuous community that has been traded ack and forth over these sites for the past decade.
It's really sad, looking at that community now, considering how much I enjoyed it in it's prime and how far it has fallen.
Aaaaah Tandy! Good old Tandy!
But about communities or this one in particular. A couple of idiots aren't going to destroy it. They might even make it stronger? Who knows. I think the easy and open structure of the C-blogs should stay like it is. With it's doors wide open for everyone to enter. True, this might cause a few retards to slip in but we can kick them out. And you'll never know what kind of awesome people might enter.
Dtoid caught my attention because of these C-Blogs (and a certain guy wearing a Robot Helmet.). I made a few friends here and there, played a few games and almost instantly was a part of the community. It felt like coming home. No time-zone can keep me away! You hear that EST and GMT?! My best friend first thought those friendships were something artificial. Like so many other websites. But she saw it wasn't when for instance James (Ha-Puken) sent me his PS2 and came to visit me over here. Oh and I can add numerous other things as 'proof'.
To summarize:
This community is the best there is. Not one rotten apple is going to change that for me.
I tried reading this, but it is dense and I'm hungover so I couldn't finish it. I will merely preemptively say good job. Will try again later.
Elsa, your participation in comments and blogging were one of the things that encouraged me to also stop lurking and finally participate. With the active "identity" estabilshed by the long-time DToiders, along with newer blood, recent additions who are engaged and active (and not sucky) -- this community will be going strong for some time to come, I feel.
"With it's doors wide open for everyone to enter. True, this might cause a few retards to slip in but we can kick them out."
REALLY?
That's incredible seeing as the community does the opposite of what you just said.
A rotten apple won't change your love of the community but those rotten apples make damn sure nobody else dares to come in here.
I feel there's a big difference between a genuinely bad blog and someone who's obviously new, most people here don't share that sentiment, if a person broke the unwritten blog rules, he gets reamed while at the same time given advice which seems insane to me, either tell the guy what he did wrong or insult him, you can't have it both ways.
Communities rise and fall based on the people that contribute to it and make up its core userbase, it a damn shame that the rotten apples Takeshi takes about are making damn sure this place remains some sort of exclusive club, a real shame, I don't understand why I see the same people calling for bannings against people who haven't broken any rules, perhaps you disagree with what they have to say and that's fine but wanting them banned is extreme(beyond the examiner guy, he seems to be breaking the rules.)
This is no attack on anyone, I merely wanted to say this after reading Elsa's blog(good write-up btw).
I love it when a good writer comes here and actually stays like yourself Elsa but I can't recall who was the last person who stayed and contributes as well before you came here, that's sorta the thing I'm talking about, it would be great if this site had a constant influx of great people who want to contribute and use the blogs in the way they are meant to be used but I'm not that seeing to much.
Funny thing though, I never see the usual troll squad in blogs like this, its like they can't contribute to the site unless they're attacking someone.
Oh well, time will decide if Destructoid will rise or fall, should be interesting to observe at least.
@Nanbu
I want to make myself a bit clearer. With 'rotten apples' I mean really rotten. In an advanced state of decomposition. I don't know who you are referring to and to be honest I don't want to know either. But to me that apple is not someone I don't like or you don't like or anyone else here doesn't like. I might have had words with one or another but I don't want him/her to leave. There are exceptions though. Those are the decomposing fruits I'm talking about. Those idiots who join. Then start calling names without any respect whatsoever. We, the more normal visitors of this website, can't possibly all be friends but we can certainly 'live' together without killing each other.
Hey wait a second. It's just like real life in a way. Blimey!
So if you take this stance in consideration I don't think the community does the opposite of what I just said in my other comment.
@Silver
Why you're saying that to her, when she believed the joke blog was real, and not others who care enough to research what the spammers were doing in the first place is beyond me.
It was a good write up, but I've been giving helpful suggestions for fail bloggers and calling out the spammers the best that I can, and I get shat on for it.
I wondered if you'd have something to say about the influx of bot bloggers.
It's silly, but in a way the examiner people actually bring the community closer together. Good blogs slip by unnoticed everyday, but spam a few re-posted articles and everyone comes out of the woodwork to call you on it. Suddenly we're all on the same side again and dusting off insults that haven't been used in years just because there is finally someone new to use them on.
It's hard starting out in any established community, but Destructoid is actually pretty receptive to people who are willing to learn from their mistakes and try again. Unless you visit the forums, we'll eat you alive there.
If you listen to Battles, I don't care who you are.
I LOVE YOU
Just putting that out there.
[/indiemusicfag]
Seriously, there are sometimes where we can be obsessively rude to newcommers who might do something wrong, but are honestly just trying to get some thoughts out.
I love Destructoid so much , it's unlike any online community I've ever seen (I think the secret is how the editors actually talk witht he community , instead of acting superior , like in most sites) , Elsa , you just got in a bad time in the Dtoid community , normally we're troll free...
@nanbu
Yeah , I agree that new members should be forgiven if they break one rule or another , but c'mon , only the examiner guy should be banned? Aren't you seeing the recent wave of trolls coming around?
I'm glad I stayed up till 4:30am :] Got to read this because of it :] This was a great blog. Stick it to those Examiners :P Even if they won't read it.
Anyway :) Like Takeshi said, this has been the best community I've ever joined, and I'm glad that even though there's 30000+ people, there's the handful of about 100-200 people who contribute greatly here, on the front page and on the forums, as well as elsewhere.
You go to a site like GameSpot, IGN, 1up (sometimes) and I don't see anything.
As always, a pleasure to read :]
@Naim
"Aren't you seeing the recent wave of trolls coming around? "
It's because Jim's articles have been more over-the-top than ever, and the whole Prototype inFamous thing alone probably garnered Dtoid a million hits off n4g/reddit/digg. The troll influx is actually pretty low!
I know what you mean by the 'big cities', I almost never stray into the Gamespot side of the community anymore, just doens't feel very community-ish. I don't blog here on dtoid (yet), but I poke my lurker face in here and there at other people's blogs.
But yeah, I feel the internet gaming communities are dwindling a bit.
@Nanbu
Listen, if your trying to refer to me in some round about way which I'm sure you are, I will have you know I have no interest in making dtoid into some exclusive club, sure I'm hard on new members when they fuck up, but how else will they learn? You've seen what happens 90% of the time when someone try's to actually help a new member, they usually get anal and tell them to fuck off anyways whether they were insulted or not.
It's the dtoid way of hazing new members and it's been this way before even I joined up last year, when I lurked I watched new members get reamed on the blogs every day. Sure my last string of comments to michi were probably uncalled for but Magnalon understood my frustration with him, I love this community to death and michi just went off and talked shit about us over at 1up then comes back and pretends it never happened it just pissed me off.
@Takeshi
I agree with everything you just said.
Apart from a time hanging around the Official Nintendo UK forums, this is the first online community I've really become involved in, or even wanted to be a part of.
For one, its a good first to see that differing opinions don't turn everyone hostile against each other! The lovers here definitely outweigh the random assholes you'll find on every corner of the internet, which is certainly the foundation to build a community as strong as this one on.
A little bit of elitism in a community never hurt anybody, imo.
If, when somebody (such as myself) posts an utterly bollocks blog, I don't want to see "Your blog is FINE, welcome to dtoid! We won't be here in 2 years because everything will be shit, and it's all your fault", I want to hear either "You fucking suck, get out" or a helpful post on what I could do better. I won't go away, but I will rethink what I'm doing. Slightly acerbic elitists have made me a better person, you could say.
DToid is a nice community. Failblogs are fail, and are told as much, but the real community spirit is in the conversation that arises from blogs and articles.
And flaming newbies, of course.
This is probably my fourth iteration on a website. First time was...hah, long ago, let's not go there. I somewhat float around GFAQs every now and again and I used to go to a piracy-heavy site but don't now. This is all I have. ;~;
I seem reluctant to be active in the forums. I have all of one post there, and as I didn't make a proper introduction post, I just...didn't say anything after that after being called on my error. I have a bit of a taboo on IRC too so that essentially leaves just the main site here as my outlet of whatever.
Oh, and a point about the "things to maintain the community aspect" part. I like the idea, but the problem is that such systems are easily abused. Sure, you can rep/up a person if they're cool, but what's stopping a troll from downing everyone, and multiple times if they could? That's not cool. =\ I'm not sure how to regulate that kind of thing, though.
Anyway, I kinda like it here. I should blog more. Yeah...
Wow... some interesting comments and some great insight into the existing community here.
@Zodiac... yeah... I saw the forums... they scare me! LOL! :)
@Zippy... I too looked at some of those bigger sites and that was my reference point for the actual gamer getting lost - those sites just seem far too big with the actual gamer lost and marginalized by the professional writers.
@Nanbu... I think this was part of the reason why I wrote this blog... I didn't understand why certain people were receiving such a backlash from the community. I still think that some form of mechanism might work better than negative community comments - but I understand a bit better why the .examiner people in particular were vilified. It brought to mind other sites where nobody wants to comment and participate - which is the basis for community. I do think that people should be given a chance to adjust, to improve - because you're very right (you and Tavendale) that without new people, a community gradually withers and dies.
I feel pretty naive that I didn't catch that the blog I was referring to was a joke blog (the community that I come from is invite only, so people can only post under one ID), and I guess I have a lot of learning to do here. I'll have to check out the "Feedback tab" that tubatic referred to... it's nice to know that there is a To Do list and that the site is continuing to anticipate change to maintain the community that exists here.
It's really nice to see people that care about the community though - it's lacking in so many other sites. It's a difficult balancing act, and actually thinking back to those old days of Dalnet and Undernet on IRC there was often turbulence and discord in most any community, but it just seems to me that this "profit factor" adds a whole new element.
Yeah... still feeling old... though I guess I'm also feeling a little bit of "things were better back in the old days"... when in actuality maybe they weren't - there were just different problems! :)
@Doomsday... yeah, rep systems can sometimes turn into a popularity contest rather than being based on the person's actual contribution - which can be problematic, and it can be abused by trolls who join to passively mess with the system. Same goes with voting of comments/blogs up or down. Overall though, they can be an indicator and sometimes a site has to try different things to see what works.
Holy shit, great blog and great discussion. Not sure how much I can contribute now that I'm LTTP, but here goes.
One of the reasons that I joined Destructoid's community was the fact that it didn't feel faceless like so many other gaming sites out there. Basically, even though many of the people on here use handles, avatars of things other than their real faces, etc., you still see a lot of people who aren't struggling to remain anonymous. People put their real names in their profiles, post pictures of themselves, and best of all, write personal things about themselves. Hell, I'm currently working on a piece that goes into a lot of personal detail about my past, and the amazing and bizarre thing is that I'm not scared to post it here. I mean, honestly, how incredible is that when you factor in all of the other gaming communities out there. I mean, I'm a member of neogaf and all, but I'd never post something personal there.
I also agree with Zodiac: I'll never say that the influx of Examiner blogs is a good thing, but it does help us remember the good things about the community here. The fact that this shit doesn't fly here is the exact reason that I want to contribute.
Last up: if we want to make sure that Destructoid's community never falls, we just need to kick ass. That's really all there is to it. Inundate the CBlogs with really kick ass stuff so that Examiner nonsense is just a tiny needle in a haystack of awesome.
nicely said Kauza!
I've always been more of a local multiplayer guy than an online guy, so I don't have too much of an opinion on community... but if it's any consolation, when I compile my code, I still use a terminal with bright green text on a black background. :D