I don't know about not putting work in, I honestly love all of your blogs. You write very well and I'm always interested in what you have to say.
I don't personally play as female avatars but can see no sensible reason why they shouldn't be included. I'm pretty sure women play games! Very strange indeed
I don't personally play as female avatars but can see no sensible reason why they shouldn't be included. I'm pretty sure women play games! Very strange indeed
Crap I guess I'm in the 23% range than as like 1/2 the time I play as female characters.
My girlfriend loves playing games with me and she plays a lot by herself and she loves playing as girls and if it's available she NEVER plays as a male character so little additons for females would prove beneficial!
Nice write up.
My girlfriend loves playing games with me and she plays a lot by herself and she loves playing as girls and if it's available she NEVER plays as a male character so little additons for females would prove beneficial!
Nice write up.
I support this blog 100%. This shit needs to be front page and spread over the internet. Seriously, multi-gender roles should play a stronger role in FPS games, the industry isn't a one man show anymore, it really should widen the audience.. and as for 'woman don't play FPS' LOL k, what rock are they living under? Ever heard of GoD (girlz of destruction) Frag Dolls, etc? I mean seriously, those have been around since 1998+ where the hell do these people look?!
I'll be honest, I think the only reason that MGO didn't ship with female characters was because they needed extra time to program the breast physics(which were fine until bikinis ruined them).
Personally, i think it's just lazyness on the part of the developers. I think they would rather not go through the process of making a female mesh and rigging it to look right when holding the weapons and such.
Personally, i think it's just lazyness on the part of the developers. I think they would rather not go through the process of making a female mesh and rigging it to look right when holding the weapons and such.
I never really noticed or cared what gender I played, honestly.
As long as I'm not Arby, I don't care if I'm a transsexual duck with a cat tail.
As long as I'm not Arby, I don't care if I'm a transsexual duck with a cat tail.
This is sort of a distillation of various forum discussions I've had and I have to say that most devs have actually been polite enough to actually respond (Dylan Jobe said that Warhawk was limited in the number of assets they can use because it's a PSN download game and they used up most of their allocations with the expansion packs... but he did PROMISE that there would be female avatars in the next iteration of Warhawk).
I'm glad to see that others agree with me and don't take this as one of those "women whining" type blogs.. which it is... but I have to agree with Palidi, I think develoers are just a bit lazy and don't want to do the work (and if anyone saw Evelyn in KZ2, I think most would agree that maybe some devs just don't have the artistic ability to even render female faces particularly well!).
Luckily, I think that whining sometimes does work. Common feedback on both the R2 and MGO betas was the question... where are the female avatars?... and luckily enough those devs worked on a DLC solution.
I'm first and foremost a gamer... not a "female" gamer, but I do admit that I love to play as a female character in online fragfests! Just from personal observance, I also saw a lot of women I know play GTA4 online because it did offer the option of a female avatar - and these are women who had never played an online shooter in any form before. As I've said, it comes down to making money... and possibly better shooter games for those of us that love them... if devs take the risk and try to attract more gamers to the genre by the simple inclusion of a gender option.
I'm glad to see that others agree with me and don't take this as one of those "women whining" type blogs.. which it is... but I have to agree with Palidi, I think develoers are just a bit lazy and don't want to do the work (and if anyone saw Evelyn in KZ2, I think most would agree that maybe some devs just don't have the artistic ability to even render female faces particularly well!).
Luckily, I think that whining sometimes does work. Common feedback on both the R2 and MGO betas was the question... where are the female avatars?... and luckily enough those devs worked on a DLC solution.
I'm first and foremost a gamer... not a "female" gamer, but I do admit that I love to play as a female character in online fragfests! Just from personal observance, I also saw a lot of women I know play GTA4 online because it did offer the option of a female avatar - and these are women who had never played an online shooter in any form before. As I've said, it comes down to making money... and possibly better shooter games for those of us that love them... if devs take the risk and try to attract more gamers to the genre by the simple inclusion of a gender option.
Actually, I find it hot that girls can use weapons, is like their male side revealed without looking like pretentious brats.
I would like to see more girls as game heroines without having 79% of her skin revealed. Jade rom BG&E is a great example
I would like to see more girls as game heroines without having 79% of her skin revealed. Jade rom BG&E is a great example
"Visually interesting" is one way to put it, I guess. ;)
Anyways, though I rarely play these sorts of games myself, I certainly agree with the point you're making, and hope that developers are listening to voices like yours on this issue.
Anyways, though I rarely play these sorts of games myself, I certainly agree with the point you're making, and hope that developers are listening to voices like yours on this issue.
I've been reading all of your articles, and I'm sorry I haven't commented until now! It is nice to have another female take on things. I don't play shooters very much, and I tend to hide behind male avatars myself, but I do agree that more games like these, if not all, should give the option of gender selection.
I believe the reason why there is a shortage of female models for games like these is a mixture of laziness (jiggle physics may be completely unnecessary, but that's not how developers think; males are still considered to be the main chunk of the demographic, and they must be pandered to) and the thought that making them would be a complete waste of time, because males want to play male characters (disproved by the statistic you've supplied stating that many men do play as female avatars when given the option).
However, it seems like most 3D modelers are very bad at making a character look feminine and good; they're usually either still very masculine or extremely into Uncanny Valley. Maybe it is a lot harder than we think.
I believe the reason why there is a shortage of female models for games like these is a mixture of laziness (jiggle physics may be completely unnecessary, but that's not how developers think; males are still considered to be the main chunk of the demographic, and they must be pandered to) and the thought that making them would be a complete waste of time, because males want to play male characters (disproved by the statistic you've supplied stating that many men do play as female avatars when given the option).
However, it seems like most 3D modelers are very bad at making a character look feminine and good; they're usually either still very masculine or extremely into Uncanny Valley. Maybe it is a lot harder than we think.
Elsa -- Great post! There's not a single good reason for leaving the female avatars out of games.
You brought up a thought that I had earlier when I was playing Sacred 2. They offer some female avatars, but they are restricted by class, which is almost worse than not having them at all. I get tired of the socialization implied in, "Women are healers and magicians, and men are warriors."
They are doing both genders a disservice by perpetuating those distinctions. So I'm a female elf, because I don't care what gender the avatar is, so long as I can cast fireball with it!!!!
You brought up a thought that I had earlier when I was playing Sacred 2. They offer some female avatars, but they are restricted by class, which is almost worse than not having them at all. I get tired of the socialization implied in, "Women are healers and magicians, and men are warriors."
They are doing both genders a disservice by perpetuating those distinctions. So I'm a female elf, because I don't care what gender the avatar is, so long as I can cast fireball with it!!!!
@Ashley, you make an excellent point that it seems that female avatars are made for men, and not for women and I hope that the developers can get beyond this mindset.
R6:Vegas actually did an excellent job with their female avatar:
She was suited to that particular game... and neither too feminine nor too masculine (though her look changed depending on the kit you chose)
(I hope the image embedded correctly!)
R6:Vegas actually did an excellent job with their female avatar:
She was suited to that particular game... and neither too feminine nor too masculine (though her look changed depending on the kit you chose)
(I hope the image embedded correctly!)
Hey Elsa good blog as always, but I just wanted to tell you, I actually named the female version of tea-bagging while playing Left 4 Dead with one of your peers. Please feel free to use it; I call it: Clam-Dipping :)
I personally think female avatars in KZ2 would make no sense ; my limited macho mind can't think of a Assault Helghan girl ...
Excellent write up. I agree 100%.
Also you know we have a Destructoid SOCOM Clan. We usually play every other night @ 11pm EST. Just in case you do play SOCOM. :)
Also you know we have a Destructoid SOCOM Clan. We usually play every other night @ 11pm EST. Just in case you do play SOCOM. :)
@Blasto and Palidi... I heard the term "v-bag"... and while crude, it's not nearly as bad as your own suggestions! LOL!
Naim_Master... they had Evelyn on the ISA side... and tell me, but couldn't this be a female:
... the shock trooper is pretty androgynous looking! :)
@Walkyourpath! Oh no... don't get me started on Sacred 2 and chainmail bikinis! LOL!
Naim_Master... they had Evelyn on the ISA side... and tell me, but couldn't this be a female:
... the shock trooper is pretty androgynous looking! :)
@Walkyourpath! Oh no... don't get me started on Sacred 2 and chainmail bikinis! LOL!
Ooops... just saw your comment Y0j1mb0...
I tried out the SOCOM beta... and am waiting for them to fix the problems before buying the game!
Poor old /6 - they just can't seem to get it right!
... I have to admit that the avatar thing kind of pissed me off a little too. They used female avatars in the SOCOM:FTB PSP game for online play and there were no issues (aside from getting used to being "corpse humped" - ugh!) - so I don't understand why the SOCOM franchise went backwards... especially given the vast customization options for the male avatars.
Eh... some of my friends still play and all of them seem to do nothing but complain and whine about all the problems and the glitching - so I'm rather glad I didn't get SOCOM. I'll wait and see how Zipper does with MAG. It's FPS, which is a departure for them, but much of the game seems rooted in their SOCOM history (which unfortunately includes no plans for female avatars).
I tried out the SOCOM beta... and am waiting for them to fix the problems before buying the game!
Poor old /6 - they just can't seem to get it right!
... I have to admit that the avatar thing kind of pissed me off a little too. They used female avatars in the SOCOM:FTB PSP game for online play and there were no issues (aside from getting used to being "corpse humped" - ugh!) - so I don't understand why the SOCOM franchise went backwards... especially given the vast customization options for the male avatars.
Eh... some of my friends still play and all of them seem to do nothing but complain and whine about all the problems and the glitching - so I'm rather glad I didn't get SOCOM. I'll wait and see how Zipper does with MAG. It's FPS, which is a departure for them, but much of the game seems rooted in their SOCOM history (which unfortunately includes no plans for female avatars).
But, but Elsa, a woman's place is in the kitchen! :( I mean, there can't possibly be women who game, right?! D:
But seriously, as stated, I agree. I like using a female avatar simply for the variety because, as a guy, I play as a guy almost 95% of the time, and that's mainly because I have no choice. When I do have a choice, I tend to make just two people, a man and woman. And in an interesting inversion, I usually make the guy the frail mage and the woman the badass melee who can eat anything that comes at her and laugh.
Of course, sometimes when I play the gender roles "right", it's the mage lady who tears ass better than the beefy meathead man. *snort*
I think jiggle physics are...scary. I mean, I understand we're pushing the envelope on realism in games, but is such a thing really necessary? It promotes guys picking female avatars and jumping in place and guffawing over their brilliance. Leave that stuff to DOA. Better yet, don't make women with massive chests! Just like real females, gasp.
But seriously, as stated, I agree. I like using a female avatar simply for the variety because, as a guy, I play as a guy almost 95% of the time, and that's mainly because I have no choice. When I do have a choice, I tend to make just two people, a man and woman. And in an interesting inversion, I usually make the guy the frail mage and the woman the badass melee who can eat anything that comes at her and laugh.
Of course, sometimes when I play the gender roles "right", it's the mage lady who tears ass better than the beefy meathead man. *snort*
I think jiggle physics are...scary. I mean, I understand we're pushing the envelope on realism in games, but is such a thing really necessary? It promotes guys picking female avatars and jumping in place and guffawing over their brilliance. Leave that stuff to DOA. Better yet, don't make women with massive chests! Just like real females, gasp.
Good blog. I'm a big fan of being able to pick a variety of avatars- male, female, black, white, asian, middle eastern, all types. It makes games more interesting when you aren't seeing the same character shell over and over. Doesn't seem too difficult to craft a woman skin.
Also, make me a sandwich?
Also, make me a sandwich?
When guys say they don't want girls ruining their shooter games, what they actually mean is they're scared of vaginas.
I played a game today that won't be announced until later this week and it made me think of this exact same subject in this blog. You'll probably be pleasantly surprised by my preview on the 29th of said game.
In Halo 3 you can choose to play MP with a female voice... ahem
but yeah, good points. I think generally you see more female avatars in say 3rd person shooters or rpgs simply because you can play the game whilst ogling at their behind, whereas the only time you actually get to see the female in a FPS is when you're trying to shoot them in the face. I think a lot of men would rather head shot a man than a lady 8/ but at the same time if there were some cool customisation options I think more male gamers would pick it up and more female gamers would jump into the genre like you said.
but yeah, good points. I think generally you see more female avatars in say 3rd person shooters or rpgs simply because you can play the game whilst ogling at their behind, whereas the only time you actually get to see the female in a FPS is when you're trying to shoot them in the face. I think a lot of men would rather head shot a man than a lady 8/ but at the same time if there were some cool customisation options I think more male gamers would pick it up and more female gamers would jump into the genre like you said.
I can't really add much onto what has already been said but I agree with you. I would welcome female avatars in any game, adds to the depth (as in mroe types of characters to play as) and obvious attention to detail on the developers part.
Why are you so upset about this? I personally love it that 98% of game avatars are white males cause it lets me take it to the man (with a gun!).
always look on the bright side of life! (do-do dodo-dodo dodo-dodo)
but for serious, if they start adding ladyfolk, ill start using them to show support to the fairer sex.
always look on the bright side of life! (do-do dodo-dodo dodo-dodo)
but for serious, if they start adding ladyfolk, ill start using them to show support to the fairer sex.
I'm shocked that nobody mentioned the Killzone universe. So yeah Elsa, you did forget one very good female character. She has arguably the best gun out of every FPS I've played.
Luger - Killzone
So Guerrilla Games do know what a lady looks like.
Evlyn - Killzone 2 and Killzone: Liberation
And she can hold a gun too:
So that's 3 games by Guerrilla Games with a lady. And in one of those games the lady is my favorite character.
Luger - Killzone
So Guerrilla Games do know what a lady looks like.
Evlyn - Killzone 2 and Killzone: Liberation
And she can hold a gun too:
So that's 3 games by Guerrilla Games with a lady. And in one of those games the lady is my favorite character.
LOL! Many of the comments made me laugh! Y'all are a pretty funny bunch here!
@Hamza... you tease!! You have me really, really curious now... and I can't wait till the 29th to find out which game you're referencing!
@Hamza... you tease!! You have me really, really curious now... and I can't wait till the 29th to find out which game you're referencing!
Great write-up again Elsa, 100% agree with you. I'm in the process of getting better acquainted with FPS's and had just mentioned to my husband how I was going to have to get used to being some "dude" all the time because so many games just don't let me play as a girl. If they do you are usually dog ugly or twig thin and better suited to brandishing a mascara wand than a gun.
This really is a fine example of untapped potential since I can see a lot more female gamers getting into the shooter scene if this was implemented.
This really is a fine example of untapped potential since I can see a lot more female gamers getting into the shooter scene if this was implemented.
Takeshi... I didn't actually forget about Luger... which is why I was so puzzled as to why they excluded female avatars in the current Killzone 2 game. As I said, it seems that the devs are going backwards!
I think it was MAG that totally pushed me over the edge though. They are selling MAG as a cross between an MMORPG and a shooter... and hyping the "character customization" aspects of the game. When I asked about female avatars in the live dev chat I was very disappointed to hear they had no plans to implement female avatars (though suspicions were already there due to the lack of females in the screen shots).
With Killzone 2, due to the class based system of the online game, I can somewhat understand the difficulties, though as I pointed out to the devs, one of the classes could easily have been female with both ISA and Helgan female avatars for that class.
@Zodiac... FPS games are fun simply because of the online component... it's amazing how much mileage you can get out of a game... I have over 375 hours in ranked Warhawk games... and probably half that again in unranked hours. I already have about 175 hours into Killzone's online play... and I still play both games regularly (have you tried the PC version of Unreal Tournament 3? It's an FPS game and very fast... a "twitch" shooter... but you can play against bots to practice and ... well... it's like dancing! The movement is just so smooth and so fast! I immediately felt at home with this game and unlike COD and other games it's fairly simple in terms of having weapon pick ups and being simply "see enemy, shoot enemy" without a lot of cover or strategy involved in the gameplay... I think it might be a good introduction to FPS games... and you can play as a female!)
:)
I think it was MAG that totally pushed me over the edge though. They are selling MAG as a cross between an MMORPG and a shooter... and hyping the "character customization" aspects of the game. When I asked about female avatars in the live dev chat I was very disappointed to hear they had no plans to implement female avatars (though suspicions were already there due to the lack of females in the screen shots).
With Killzone 2, due to the class based system of the online game, I can somewhat understand the difficulties, though as I pointed out to the devs, one of the classes could easily have been female with both ISA and Helgan female avatars for that class.
@Zodiac... FPS games are fun simply because of the online component... it's amazing how much mileage you can get out of a game... I have over 375 hours in ranked Warhawk games... and probably half that again in unranked hours. I already have about 175 hours into Killzone's online play... and I still play both games regularly (have you tried the PC version of Unreal Tournament 3? It's an FPS game and very fast... a "twitch" shooter... but you can play against bots to practice and ... well... it's like dancing! The movement is just so smooth and so fast! I immediately felt at home with this game and unlike COD and other games it's fairly simple in terms of having weapon pick ups and being simply "see enemy, shoot enemy" without a lot of cover or strategy involved in the gameplay... I think it might be a good introduction to FPS games... and you can play as a female!)
:)
Clive Barker's Jericho featured 3 playable female characters (2 shown below if the link works)..but lacked an online multiplayer feature. Also, its gameplay wasn't that stellar.
[img]http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3607/3657822706_cb20aafc39_o.jpg{/img]
I'm all for total customisation of one's online avatar, since most shooters seem to lack any sense of individuality and difference among their characters, other than rank and minor uniform differences.
[img]http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3607/3657822706_cb20aafc39_o.jpg{/img]
I'm all for total customisation of one's online avatar, since most shooters seem to lack any sense of individuality and difference among their characters, other than rank and minor uniform differences.
Yeah, you're right. I could see the Saboteur as a female. Or the Sniper. Would be cool if the Heavies were female. Big beastlike women blasting everybody to smithereens with rocketlaunchers. Uhm. Let's stick to Saboteurs. But about Luger. I wasn't happy to see I couldn't play with again. What the hell happened to her anyway?
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