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About Me
meh... I think I'll just keep changing my sidebar until I find something I'm happy with.

slightly relevant stuff... I'm old (49), I'm female, I'm happily married.

more relevant stuff... I like online FPS games, I like to play online with other Dtoid members. I'm primarily a PS3 gamer but you can occasionally find me on Xbox (though I don't currently have gold, but expect to get it again around Christmas).


PSN: Elsa
XBL: Elssa62
Playstation Gamer Advisory Panel Member (GAP)

Currently Playing:
PS3:
Two Worlds 2
Uncharted 2 and 3
MAG (mostly Raven, though I have a SVER alt)
... and occasionally Warhawk, UT3, Resistance 2 co-op or Killzone 2!

Xbox:
Halo Reach.
Left 4 Dead 2
Divinity 2: Dragon Knight Saga


Recent Favorites:
WARHAWK!!
UT3
Portal 1&2
Sacred 2
Bioshock series
Oblivion
Fallout series
Dragon Age: Origins
Resistance series
Killzone 2
Left 4 Dead 2

Can't wait for:
STARHAWK!!!
Skyrim!





Some blogs I wrote that I like:
Girls with Guns
Guess the Gender
A Girl's Guide to FPS Gaming
Me and My Chainmail Bikini...
Adopt a Troll!
Fanboy Wars - the game!

Promoted C-Blogs:
Undies and a Knife
He dumped me! That Bastard!
Love/Hate: Being a Girl Gamer
The Future: The Year is 2029
My Expertise: Leader of Men
The Great Escape: From Physical Pain
More than Just Noise: Boom Headshot!
2010 Sucked: Game Addiction Issues
Technical Difficulties: He teabagged me!

Email: exrecruiter@msn.com




































































































/


Gamer Profile
3DS friend code:
Steam:
Battle:
PSN: Elsa
Mii:
Gamertag: Elssa62
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Girls with Guns
Elsa | 2:42 PM on 06.23.2009 41 comments



A few years ago we saw online playable female avatars for R6Vegas, Mercenaries 2, UT3... even GTA4 had online female characters, Then, Battlefield - no women, the SOCOM franchise took a giant step backwards and neglected to include a female avatar, and Resistance 2 and MGO launched with no female avatars, followed up by Killzone 2 and a decided lack of big Helgan women. For awhile it seemed that online female avatars were "almost" becoming normal and accepted... then wham! - the ability to be a one-woman wrecking machine with a gun disappeared. It seems that the devs are taking a step backward instead of forward. Resistance 2 and MGO have rectified this oversight with DLC that included female avatars, but why were they not included in the original game launch? Also, why are upcoming games like MAG deciding not to include female avatars?

Top 5 reasons I've heard for the lack of female avatars in shooter games:

1) There are no female soldiers in real life.
Huh? That picture at the top of this blog is Leigh Ann Hester.. an American female soldier who was awarded the Silver Star in 2005 after killing at least 3 enemy combatants with her M4 assault rifle and clearing other combatants using hand grenades and an M203 grenade launcher. Please tell her that she's not supposed to engage the enemy.
I'm Canadian... and in Canada women serve on submarines, ships, as pilots and as infantry. We are not restricted from any aspect of the military (though to date females have only served in support roles in our Special Forces unit). We lost our first female infantry soldier (Nichola Goddard) in 2006 in Afghanistan when she was killed by an RPG round during a planned assault on a Mosque harbouring Taliban members. Even WW2 games can utilize female soldiers. Lyudmila Pavlichenko was a famed Soviet sniper credited with 309 kills.

The Soviets used female tank crews, snipers and even infantry. While women are not common in the military, they ARE soldiers.
... however the biggest argument against the "realism" issue is ... get this... it's a VIDEO GAME. If you want realism, then lets make games so that you do endless patrols where absolutely nothing happens... then you hit a roadside bomb and die - and you can never play the game again.

2. It's too difficult to program separate female movement animations.
This is the reason given by both Zipper (MAG) and Guerilla Games (Killzone) for why they don't have female avatars in their games. It seems that they actually haven't seen real life female soldiers, because they don't sashay or wiggle when they walk or bounce when they run. In full kit, it's difficult to tell a female soldier from a male from any distance. Add some bumps to the top and a female head.. done. That isn't so hard is it? (Most male avatars don't even have a "package" so they don't even really need to change the bottoms).

3. Female avatars are smaller and more difficult to hit in a shooter game.
Ummm... it's called a "hit zone" and most avatars have a similar hit zone programmed in. Many games successfully use female avatars and the size difference needn't be substantial.

4. Not enough females play shooter games to warrant having female avatars.
Who says it's only females that use female avatars? According to the Daedalus Project (one of the few comprehensive studies on gamer demographics), 97% of female gamers prefer to play as their own gender, but only 77% of men prefer to play as a male character. Approximately half the female characters found in WoW are actually men. Men play games like Heavenly Sword and Tomb Raider and I have yet to hear a complaint that the main character is female. Having female avatars might actually encourage more females to try shooter games, and is unlikely to alienate a large percentage of male gamers.

5. We guys don't want girls ruining our shooter games.
Yeah, we're going to come in there, giggle, and talk about shoes or recipes. Chances are pretty good you've already been killed by a female gamer (and possibly even t-bagged.. or v-bagged by one too).... and you never even knew it was a girl. The more gamers that play shooter games, the more money developers make. The more money developers make, the more money they have to create more (and better) shooter games. It seems that everybody wins.

All I want to see is an option for a female avatar in more shooter games. SOCOM gave us big-ole-dumb-ass-blond-macho-guy avatars all duded out and dripping in masculinity with a plethora of choices in facial hair, scars and face paint... but not one female avatar. Get with the current century! I'm tired of my boy-toy avatars and want a kick-ass female avatar. It all comes down to money. The current male shooter gamer is unlikely to be alienated by incorporating female avatars into a game, and the game developers might attract more female gamers to this genre. More people playing, means more money for better games, it's really a win-win situation.

To put it all in perspective... ... just imagine online gaming where all the characters were female. Sure it's a novelty at first... sure most guys would have fun choosing the most visually interesting avatar to play... but after awhile wouldn't they long to play as an onscreen guy again? Wouldn't they want to scratch their virtual balls and feel just a little bit manly again?


So girls with guns.. yeah, let's tap that potential!

(and yeah, this started out as something for the "Untapped Potential" series... but I got lazy and didn't want to put the real work into it. I also would have held off on posting it (because I probably post too often) but it seems like a slow day and there's not enough new content to comment on.... so I gave in and hit that "publish live" button!)
:)



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38 comments | showing # 1 to 38
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Kris S's Avatar - Comment posted on 06/23/2009 17:03
Kris S
I don't know about not putting work in, I honestly love all of your blogs. You write very well and I'm always interested in what you have to say.

I don't personally play as female avatars but can see no sensible reason why they shouldn't be included. I'm pretty sure women play games! Very strange indeed
mix's Avatar - Comment posted on 06/23/2009 17:20
mix
Crap I guess I'm in the 23% range than as like 1/2 the time I play as female characters.

My girlfriend loves playing games with me and she plays a lot by herself and she loves playing as girls and if it's available she NEVER plays as a male character so little additons for females would prove beneficial!

Nice write up.
WastelandTraveler's Avatar - Comment posted on 06/23/2009 18:02
WastelandTraveler
I support this blog 100%. This shit needs to be front page and spread over the internet. Seriously, multi-gender roles should play a stronger role in FPS games, the industry isn't a one man show anymore, it really should widen the audience.. and as for 'woman don't play FPS' LOL k, what rock are they living under? Ever heard of GoD (girlz of destruction) Frag Dolls, etc? I mean seriously, those have been around since 1998+ where the hell do these people look?!
Sterling Aiayla Lyons's Avatar - Comment posted on 06/23/2009 18:11
Sterling Aiayla Lyons
I'll be honest, I think the only reason that MGO didn't ship with female characters was because they needed extra time to program the breast physics(which were fine until bikinis ruined them).

Personally, i think it's just lazyness on the part of the developers. I think they would rather not go through the process of making a female mesh and rigging it to look right when holding the weapons and such.
Daxelman's Avatar - Comment posted on 06/23/2009 18:32
Daxelman
I never really noticed or cared what gender I played, honestly.

As long as I'm not Arby, I don't care if I'm a transsexual duck with a cat tail.
Elsa's Avatar - Comment posted on 06/23/2009 18:39
Elsa
This is sort of a distillation of various forum discussions I've had and I have to say that most devs have actually been polite enough to actually respond (Dylan Jobe said that Warhawk was limited in the number of assets they can use because it's a PSN download game and they used up most of their allocations with the expansion packs... but he did PROMISE that there would be female avatars in the next iteration of Warhawk).

I'm glad to see that others agree with me and don't take this as one of those "women whining" type blogs.. which it is... but I have to agree with Palidi, I think develoers are just a bit lazy and don't want to do the work (and if anyone saw Evelyn in KZ2, I think most would agree that maybe some devs just don't have the artistic ability to even render female faces particularly well!).

Luckily, I think that whining sometimes does work. Common feedback on both the R2 and MGO betas was the question... where are the female avatars?... and luckily enough those devs worked on a DLC solution.

I'm first and foremost a gamer... not a "female" gamer, but I do admit that I love to play as a female character in online fragfests! Just from personal observance, I also saw a lot of women I know play GTA4 online because it did offer the option of a female avatar - and these are women who had never played an online shooter in any form before. As I've said, it comes down to making money... and possibly better shooter games for those of us that love them... if devs take the risk and try to attract more gamers to the genre by the simple inclusion of a gender option.
Tronjoy's Avatar - Comment posted on 06/23/2009 18:48
Tronjoy
Wow, those "reasons" are pretty shocking.

I whole-heartedly support your argument.
Monodi's Avatar - Comment posted on 06/23/2009 18:53
Monodi
Actually, I find it hot that girls can use weapons, is like their male side revealed without looking like pretentious brats.

I would like to see more girls as game heroines without having 79% of her skin revealed. Jade rom BG&E is a great example
BulletMagnet's Avatar - Comment posted on 06/23/2009 18:57
BulletMagnet
"Visually interesting" is one way to put it, I guess. ;)

Anyways, though I rarely play these sorts of games myself, I certainly agree with the point you're making, and hope that developers are listening to voices like yours on this issue.
Ashley Davis's Avatar - Comment posted on 06/23/2009 19:11
Ashley Davis
I've been reading all of your articles, and I'm sorry I haven't commented until now! It is nice to have another female take on things. I don't play shooters very much, and I tend to hide behind male avatars myself, but I do agree that more games like these, if not all, should give the option of gender selection.

I believe the reason why there is a shortage of female models for games like these is a mixture of laziness (jiggle physics may be completely unnecessary, but that's not how developers think; males are still considered to be the main chunk of the demographic, and they must be pandered to) and the thought that making them would be a complete waste of time, because males want to play male characters (disproved by the statistic you've supplied stating that many men do play as female avatars when given the option).

However, it seems like most 3D modelers are very bad at making a character look feminine and good; they're usually either still very masculine or extremely into Uncanny Valley. Maybe it is a lot harder than we think.
Sean Carey's Avatar - Comment posted on 06/23/2009 19:20
Sean Carey
Elsa -- Great post! There's not a single good reason for leaving the female avatars out of games.

You brought up a thought that I had earlier when I was playing Sacred 2. They offer some female avatars, but they are restricted by class, which is almost worse than not having them at all. I get tired of the socialization implied in, "Women are healers and magicians, and men are warriors."

They are doing both genders a disservice by perpetuating those distinctions. So I'm a female elf, because I don't care what gender the avatar is, so long as I can cast fireball with it!!!!
Elsa's Avatar - Comment posted on 06/23/2009 19:25
Elsa
@Ashley, you make an excellent point that it seems that female avatars are made for men, and not for women and I hope that the developers can get beyond this mindset.

R6:Vegas actually did an excellent job with their female avatar:


She was suited to that particular game... and neither too feminine nor too masculine (though her look changed depending on the kit you chose)

(I hope the image embedded correctly!)
Blasto's Avatar - Comment posted on 06/23/2009 20:00
Blasto
Hey Elsa good blog as always, but I just wanted to tell you, I actually named the female version of tea-bagging while playing Left 4 Dead with one of your peers. Please feel free to use it; I call it: Clam-Dipping :)
Naim Master's Avatar - Comment posted on 06/23/2009 20:01
Naim Master
I personally think female avatars in KZ2 would make no sense ; my limited macho mind can't think of a Assault Helghan girl ...
Sterling Aiayla Lyons's Avatar - Comment posted on 06/23/2009 20:39
Sterling Aiayla Lyons
@Blasto:

But everyone knows the proper term is "Taco Bopping".(MGO joke FTW)
Y0j1mb0's Avatar - Comment posted on 06/23/2009 20:57
Y0j1mb0
Excellent write up. I agree 100%.

Also you know we have a Destructoid SOCOM Clan. We usually play every other night @ 11pm EST. Just in case you do play SOCOM. :)
Elsa's Avatar - Comment posted on 06/23/2009 21:01
Elsa
@Blasto and Palidi... I heard the term "v-bag"... and while crude, it's not nearly as bad as your own suggestions! LOL!

Naim_Master... they had Evelyn on the ISA side... and tell me, but couldn't this be a female:


... the shock trooper is pretty androgynous looking! :)

@Walkyourpath! Oh no... don't get me started on Sacred 2 and chainmail bikinis! LOL!
Monodi's Avatar - Comment posted on 06/23/2009 21:04
Monodi
@Blasto

I am never eating clam chowder again.
Elsa's Avatar - Comment posted on 06/23/2009 21:14
Elsa
Ooops... just saw your comment Y0j1mb0...
I tried out the SOCOM beta... and am waiting for them to fix the problems before buying the game!
Poor old /6 - they just can't seem to get it right!

... I have to admit that the avatar thing kind of pissed me off a little too. They used female avatars in the SOCOM:FTB PSP game for online play and there were no issues (aside from getting used to being "corpse humped" - ugh!) - so I don't understand why the SOCOM franchise went backwards... especially given the vast customization options for the male avatars.

Eh... some of my friends still play and all of them seem to do nothing but complain and whine about all the problems and the glitching - so I'm rather glad I didn't get SOCOM. I'll wait and see how Zipper does with MAG. It's FPS, which is a departure for them, but much of the game seems rooted in their SOCOM history (which unfortunately includes no plans for female avatars).
DF's Avatar - Comment posted on 06/23/2009 21:17
DF
But, but Elsa, a woman's place is in the kitchen! :( I mean, there can't possibly be women who game, right?! D:

But seriously, as stated, I agree. I like using a female avatar simply for the variety because, as a guy, I play as a guy almost 95% of the time, and that's mainly because I have no choice. When I do have a choice, I tend to make just two people, a man and woman. And in an interesting inversion, I usually make the guy the frail mage and the woman the badass melee who can eat anything that comes at her and laugh.

Of course, sometimes when I play the gender roles "right", it's the mage lady who tears ass better than the beefy meathead man. *snort*

I think jiggle physics are...scary. I mean, I understand we're pushing the envelope on realism in games, but is such a thing really necessary? It promotes guys picking female avatars and jumping in place and guffawing over their brilliance. Leave that stuff to DOA. Better yet, don't make women with massive chests! Just like real females, gasp.
Y0j1mb0's Avatar - Comment posted on 06/23/2009 21:32
Y0j1mb0
On an unrelated note Elsa... Firmware 2.80 is out now for the PS3.
norm9's Avatar - Comment posted on 06/23/2009 21:39
norm9
Good blog. I'm a big fan of being able to pick a variety of avatars- male, female, black, white, asian, middle eastern, all types. It makes games more interesting when you aren't seeing the same character shell over and over. Doesn't seem too difficult to craft a woman skin.

Also, make me a sandwich?
SilverDragon1979's Avatar - Comment posted on 06/23/2009 21:41
SilverDragon1979
Great writeup. Keep up the writing, I really enjoy reading your articles. :-)
P3T3Y's Avatar - Comment posted on 06/23/2009 22:14
P3T3Y
When guys say they don't want girls ruining their shooter games, what they actually mean is they're scared of vaginas.
's Avatar - Comment posted on 06/23/2009 22:35
Clint
"Most male avatars don't even have a "package""

And that's what's wrong with FPS.

On a more ceral note, yeah. It only does good, and it's such an easy thing to include, it's kind of ridiculous not to. The female charecters that is, not the packages. Although those would still be nice...
Hamza CTZ Aziz's Avatar - Comment posted on 06/24/2009 00:42
Hamza CTZ Aziz
I played a game today that won't be announced until later this week and it made me think of this exact same subject in this blog. You'll probably be pleasantly surprised by my preview on the 29th of said game.
Nuvalari's Avatar - Comment posted on 06/24/2009 04:03
Nuvalari
In Halo 3 you can choose to play MP with a female voice... ahem

but yeah, good points. I think generally you see more female avatars in say 3rd person shooters or rpgs simply because you can play the game whilst ogling at their behind, whereas the only time you actually get to see the female in a FPS is when you're trying to shoot them in the face. I think a lot of men would rather head shot a man than a lady 8/ but at the same time if there were some cool customisation options I think more male gamers would pick it up and more female gamers would jump into the genre like you said.
Zippyduda's Avatar - Comment posted on 06/24/2009 06:47
Zippyduda
I can't really add much onto what has already been said but I agree with you. I would welcome female avatars in any game, adds to the depth (as in mroe types of characters to play as) and obvious attention to detail on the developers part.
The Incredible Edible Egg's Avatar - Comment posted on 06/24/2009 08:26
The Incredible Edible Egg
Why are you so upset about this? I personally love it that 98% of game avatars are white males cause it lets me take it to the man (with a gun!).

always look on the bright side of life! (do-do dodo-dodo dodo-dodo)

but for serious, if they start adding ladyfolk, ill start using them to show support to the fairer sex.
Takeshi's Avatar - Comment posted on 06/24/2009 10:50
Takeshi
I'm shocked that nobody mentioned the Killzone universe. So yeah Elsa, you did forget one very good female character. She has arguably the best gun out of every FPS I've played.

Luger - Killzone




So Guerrilla Games do know what a lady looks like.

Evlyn - Killzone 2 and Killzone: Liberation


And she can hold a gun too:


So that's 3 games by Guerrilla Games with a lady. And in one of those games the lady is my favorite character.
Elsa's Avatar - Comment posted on 06/24/2009 11:00
Elsa
LOL! Many of the comments made me laugh! Y'all are a pretty funny bunch here!

@Hamza... you tease!! You have me really, really curious now... and I can't wait till the 29th to find out which game you're referencing!
Joanna Mueller's Avatar - Comment posted on 06/24/2009 12:24
Joanna Mueller
Great write-up again Elsa, 100% agree with you. I'm in the process of getting better acquainted with FPS's and had just mentioned to my husband how I was going to have to get used to being some "dude" all the time because so many games just don't let me play as a girl. If they do you are usually dog ugly or twig thin and better suited to brandishing a mascara wand than a gun.

This really is a fine example of untapped potential since I can see a lot more female gamers getting into the shooter scene if this was implemented.
Elsa's Avatar - Comment posted on 06/24/2009 12:58
Elsa
Takeshi... I didn't actually forget about Luger... which is why I was so puzzled as to why they excluded female avatars in the current Killzone 2 game. As I said, it seems that the devs are going backwards!

I think it was MAG that totally pushed me over the edge though. They are selling MAG as a cross between an MMORPG and a shooter... and hyping the "character customization" aspects of the game. When I asked about female avatars in the live dev chat I was very disappointed to hear they had no plans to implement female avatars (though suspicions were already there due to the lack of females in the screen shots).

With Killzone 2, due to the class based system of the online game, I can somewhat understand the difficulties, though as I pointed out to the devs, one of the classes could easily have been female with both ISA and Helgan female avatars for that class.

@Zodiac... FPS games are fun simply because of the online component... it's amazing how much mileage you can get out of a game... I have over 375 hours in ranked Warhawk games... and probably half that again in unranked hours. I already have about 175 hours into Killzone's online play... and I still play both games regularly (have you tried the PC version of Unreal Tournament 3? It's an FPS game and very fast... a "twitch" shooter... but you can play against bots to practice and ... well... it's like dancing! The movement is just so smooth and so fast! I immediately felt at home with this game and unlike COD and other games it's fairly simple in terms of having weapon pick ups and being simply "see enemy, shoot enemy" without a lot of cover or strategy involved in the gameplay... I think it might be a good introduction to FPS games... and you can play as a female!)
:)
ikiryou's Avatar - Comment posted on 06/24/2009 13:08
ikiryou
Clive Barker's Jericho featured 3 playable female characters (2 shown below if the link works)..but lacked an online multiplayer feature. Also, its gameplay wasn't that stellar.

[img]http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3607/3657822706_cb20aafc39_o.jpg{/img]

I'm all for total customisation of one's online avatar, since most shooters seem to lack any sense of individuality and difference among their characters, other than rank and minor uniform differences.
ikiryou's Avatar - Comment posted on 06/24/2009 13:09
ikiryou
urg...that should've been a bracket. comment preview function, please? o_0

Takeshi's Avatar - Comment posted on 06/24/2009 13:11
Takeshi
Yeah, you're right. I could see the Saboteur as a female. Or the Sniper. Would be cool if the Heavies were female. Big beastlike women blasting everybody to smithereens with rocketlaunchers. Uhm. Let's stick to Saboteurs. But about Luger. I wasn't happy to see I couldn't play with again. What the hell happened to her anyway?
RiotMonster's Avatar - Comment posted on 06/29/2010 08:45
RiotMonster
I've twat-squatted many men in my day.
All fear the unholy TACO DROP on your face!
Neon21's Avatar - Comment posted on 06/01/2011 01:25
Neon21
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