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Oh... and just a note that no, I didn't touch on the other big difference between the two systems - the xbox "pay to play online" gold system... frankly that pisses me off so much that it's for another blog - if I ever get around to it. I'm sure it would be totally flame-bait and regarded as a trolling blog, but it truly does totally piss me off.
I understand where you're coming from. For me, usually chat in any form isn't really important to me due to the fact that I'm pretty much a single player gamer (unless it comes to fighting games). However, when I do go online and play with other people and hear their voices, I like the fact that everyone there is focused on the game. It's almost like we all have a commonality that binds us, makes us a little less "this person is a stranger" since everyone in that game has something in common. I like that because it's one thing to always talk with my friends, but I don't always want to play and communicate with someone I know. Getting to know another person, even through a gaming space, is rewarding and for me, now that you mentioned it in your blog, I do find that the PS3 allows for that rather successfully. Great blog!
I don't buy the generalization that the ps3 is more about games, whereas the xbox is more about socializing. When I play multiplayer games, I never play with randoms, only with a group of friends in--yes--party chat. If you play with a lot of randoms (or care at all about the randoms in your game), I can see why party chat would be a problem, but if you primarily play with a group of friends, party doesn't diminish the "game experience" in favor of socializing.
I go in an party chat on my Xbox so that I can communicate while playing Demon's Souls on my PS3. How broken is that? And I'm not the only one who does this, by a long shot.
I go in an party chat on my Xbox so that I can communicate while playing Demon's Souls on my PS3. How broken is that? And I'm not the only one who does this, by a long shot.
I want cross game chat for single player games, so if I am playing and got stuck I can call for a friend for tips, or if I am playing a game with no story like Plants vs Zombies I can talk with my friends. But I agree that in multiplayer, team oriented games, it is better to not allow this kind of thing.
@Randombullseye... do you play multiplayer games on the PS3?? If you've played MAG or Warhawk or UT3... or just about any shooter game, you'll hear people constantly talking about the other team, or that they have the objective/flag and need cover, or thanking you for a revive (or yelling for a medic)... yes, you do hear people cursing and complaining - but many people really do talk "game". My own experience is that it's really rare to get into a PS3 multiplayer game where people aren't talking strategy or trying to get some teamwork going. (But I do tend to play team-oriented games).
@Estrelas... nicely said. Yeah, there's a bonding experience when you get in with a great group of people!
@knutaf... the thing is that you're not alone in never playing with randoms and only playing with party chat and never game chat. As I said, some people love that aspect of the 360, but for others like myself, it really ruins many online games. It's two totally different experiences. I just think it's best if they stay two totally different experiences.
@manwithnoname... I would have no objection to party chat while playing single player games... but to some extent it would change the experience. I do think that if cross game chat ever came to the PS3 there would also be a LOT of pressure to allow if for multiplayer games and those devs that took a firm stance on "no party chat" might eventually suffer in terms of sales. It's just a pandora's box that I think it might be best not to open. :(
@Estrelas... nicely said. Yeah, there's a bonding experience when you get in with a great group of people!
@knutaf... the thing is that you're not alone in never playing with randoms and only playing with party chat and never game chat. As I said, some people love that aspect of the 360, but for others like myself, it really ruins many online games. It's two totally different experiences. I just think it's best if they stay two totally different experiences.
@manwithnoname... I would have no objection to party chat while playing single player games... but to some extent it would change the experience. I do think that if cross game chat ever came to the PS3 there would also be a LOT of pressure to allow if for multiplayer games and those devs that took a firm stance on "no party chat" might eventually suffer in terms of sales. It's just a pandora's box that I think it might be best not to open. :(
@knutaf
I'm pretty sure they've disable cross-game chat for Dark Souls on Xbox. Not sure if "broken" is as appropriate as much as From Software setting the mood/atmosphere for their game.
I guess it depends on the person whether they care about cross-game chat or not. If someone is just playing to talk to friends, then there's no reason for talking to randoms. If you're trying to immerse yourself into a game's community, you can't do that being in Party Chat. As you said, games like Warhawk and MAG would not be anywhere near the games they are today without that social aspect. It could also just be due to the different cultures of the consoles. On PS3, the majority seem to play mic-less (myself included sadly) so talking to randoms is a little easier as there are less people to deal with. It gets to be more intimate. On Xbox everyone has a mic, and it's assumed everyone is going to act like a 12 year old douchebag so they just stick with party chat regardless.
I'm pretty sure they've disable cross-game chat for Dark Souls on Xbox. Not sure if "broken" is as appropriate as much as From Software setting the mood/atmosphere for their game.
I guess it depends on the person whether they care about cross-game chat or not. If someone is just playing to talk to friends, then there's no reason for talking to randoms. If you're trying to immerse yourself into a game's community, you can't do that being in Party Chat. As you said, games like Warhawk and MAG would not be anywhere near the games they are today without that social aspect. It could also just be due to the different cultures of the consoles. On PS3, the majority seem to play mic-less (myself included sadly) so talking to randoms is a little easier as there are less people to deal with. It gets to be more intimate. On Xbox everyone has a mic, and it's assumed everyone is going to act like a 12 year old douchebag so they just stick with party chat regardless.
I don't believe either console has the upper hand when it comes to teamwork in games. They just don't have the software for it. Problem is, you don't get those kind of hardcore experiences that are found on the PC. Console games don't cater to that audience, so when it comes to Team Deathmatch, it's usually a case of casual maverick gameplay; regardless of tactics.
I'm the opposite with chat, anyway. I enjoy using Party Chat for FNF, but that's because it's ideal for the sessions and the people involved. It's perfect for small team based co-op, outside that and it's a differnt matter, e,g. stuff like Bad Company where the small co-op simply doesn't work to the point where nobody speaks and that whole idea of "casual over hardcore" rears its head.
Outside Party Chat, I usually just mute people or stay silent. Seems like more and more people are doing that in the three years I've had Live.
Yeah, also, don't get me started on paying for Live. It's...ugh. Picked this year's sub up for half price, so I know Microsoft are having a laugh at my gaming expense.
I'm the opposite with chat, anyway. I enjoy using Party Chat for FNF, but that's because it's ideal for the sessions and the people involved. It's perfect for small team based co-op, outside that and it's a differnt matter, e,g. stuff like Bad Company where the small co-op simply doesn't work to the point where nobody speaks and that whole idea of "casual over hardcore" rears its head.
Outside Party Chat, I usually just mute people or stay silent. Seems like more and more people are doing that in the three years I've had Live.
Yeah, also, don't get me started on paying for Live. It's...ugh. Picked this year's sub up for half price, so I know Microsoft are having a laugh at my gaming expense.
I would enjoy if they did have cross-game chat for PS3 users, but lmit and restrict it to some games. like, ban it in MAG, Warhawk, etc. but for games like CoD, allow it.
Fabulous Blog.
Fabulous Blog.
I honestly thought to myself that I'd buy a PS3 if it meant that people actually communicate in multiplayer games on PS3. Maybe the difference between them isn't cross-chat but actually the audience playing them.
Anyways, in my personal experience, I use party chat for two things: talking to friends I'm playing together with (like in FNF) because Xbox strangers don't talk (constructively), or talking to friends while I'm stuck losing, in frustrating fashion, on skewed terms. For example, I'm stuck on a team of newbs against a party of pubstompers, party chat takes me mind off the frustration of being spawn camped.
As per my taste anyways.
Anyways, in my personal experience, I use party chat for two things: talking to friends I'm playing together with (like in FNF) because Xbox strangers don't talk (constructively), or talking to friends while I'm stuck losing, in frustrating fashion, on skewed terms. For example, I'm stuck on a team of newbs against a party of pubstompers, party chat takes me mind off the frustration of being spawn camped.
As per my taste anyways.
A perfect example of how the cross-game chat / party system hurt online gaming on Xbox Live is probably Halo 3, as it existed before the 8-person Party Chat system was implemented.
Before: Halo players would at least try to communicate and be a team, y'know when there wasnt a 14 year old in your ear.
After: Halo 3 became a barren wasteland of silence
Before: Halo players would at least try to communicate and be a team, y'know when there wasnt a 14 year old in your ear.
After: Halo 3 became a barren wasteland of silence
When I still had a 360 I only used party chat when I launched a game with friends or when I received an invite from other team members. Typical what would happen is if I was a top player in a previous round I'd get an invite from another top player. We'd then coordinate to carry the team on our own. Other times I'd get an invite just because I wasn't obnoxious. That's great and all but using it this way is just a gloried mute button for all other players. It's not that much different from manually silencing annoying players on my PS3. This ability only becomes truly useful if you wish to quit the game/lobby but still chat with players. In that respect it was very useful, but not having the function doesn't break my PS3.
Am I missing something here or did they change the party chat on the 360 when I wasn't looking? << >>
In most of the games on the 360 you can be on in game chat, or party chat, that's correct. But...if you want to be able to hear everyone in game then you can switch the chat to "game chat" from the party screen. Just like you can switch the party from open to private. And it use to be that each individual could change their own setting from the party screen, so everyone can hop back and forth from party to game chat at their own will. So there's no reason (unless this has changed) that you can't be in party and still have the option of hearing other players of the game.
.................Now I have to go check this out. lol
In most of the games on the 360 you can be on in game chat, or party chat, that's correct. But...if you want to be able to hear everyone in game then you can switch the chat to "game chat" from the party screen. Just like you can switch the party from open to private. And it use to be that each individual could change their own setting from the party screen, so everyone can hop back and forth from party to game chat at their own will. So there's no reason (unless this has changed) that you can't be in party and still have the option of hearing other players of the game.
.................Now I have to go check this out. lol
I have to agree with randombullseye, I've played MAG for a good 4 months and I never experienced team work - I tried, but it ended up in disappointment.
@Jade... you are right that there are options for game chat and a separate option for party chat - the problem is that almost nobody seems to use game chat. If I switch to game chat I am generally greeted with absolute and total silence. I also like using party chat on the 360... I like being in a group with people playing different games - but it does make for a very different online experience.
@Venus.. huh? You never had a squad leader telling the squad what bunker to go for? You never had a platoon leader or an OIC giving overall direction? You never had someone yell thanks after you revived them? (or never heard someone yelling at you to come revive them?)
... you must not have played the bigger modes like Domination. In Sabo or Suppression, chat isn't really needed - there is no teamwork or strategy needed in those modes. In the bigger modes though, most every squad I've been in has at least one or two people on mic.
@kidplus... yeah, I agree that not having the function doesn't break my PS3 - but I rather wonder if the PS3 DID have this function - would it break the games?
@SephirothX... EXACTLY. This is what I fear could happen with the PS3.
@Strider... I always wear a mic. Often the first thing I ask when playing with randoms is "anyone else got a mic?" and I can often hear people turning on their mics. People will talk... if they're in a group of other people interested in teamwork. (though on the subject of being spawn camped... that's where the fun of prox chat comes in! LOL!)
@Epic... yeah I guess it really depends on the game. COD really isn't a game where people tend to work as a team. :(
@Stevil... the 360 does tend to offer a lot of games that have smaller numbers - so the chat isn't necessarily a deterrent. On the PS3 it's not unusual to have 24/32 and well... 256 player games. The scale of many of the games is just seems larger (though currently there seems a trend back toward smaller games). On live... I still haven't bought Gold yet... still waiting till I see a Gold card on sale!
@Celica... yeah, as I said, it's individual preference, but I would hate for the PS3 to take away that option by going to cross game chat.
@Venus.. huh? You never had a squad leader telling the squad what bunker to go for? You never had a platoon leader or an OIC giving overall direction? You never had someone yell thanks after you revived them? (or never heard someone yelling at you to come revive them?)
... you must not have played the bigger modes like Domination. In Sabo or Suppression, chat isn't really needed - there is no teamwork or strategy needed in those modes. In the bigger modes though, most every squad I've been in has at least one or two people on mic.
@kidplus... yeah, I agree that not having the function doesn't break my PS3 - but I rather wonder if the PS3 DID have this function - would it break the games?
@SephirothX... EXACTLY. This is what I fear could happen with the PS3.
@Strider... I always wear a mic. Often the first thing I ask when playing with randoms is "anyone else got a mic?" and I can often hear people turning on their mics. People will talk... if they're in a group of other people interested in teamwork. (though on the subject of being spawn camped... that's where the fun of prox chat comes in! LOL!)
@Epic... yeah I guess it really depends on the game. COD really isn't a game where people tend to work as a team. :(
@Stevil... the 360 does tend to offer a lot of games that have smaller numbers - so the chat isn't necessarily a deterrent. On the PS3 it's not unusual to have 24/32 and well... 256 player games. The scale of many of the games is just seems larger (though currently there seems a trend back toward smaller games). On live... I still haven't bought Gold yet... still waiting till I see a Gold card on sale!
@Celica... yeah, as I said, it's individual preference, but I would hate for the PS3 to take away that option by going to cross game chat.
I can't stand chat channels in game. I hate hearing the differing quality and the annoying grain of the voices. I used to dig it back on the original Xbox, but that was the only thing I knew. Private Chat changed that.
When I game, I want to game with just my friends. I don't want any distractions. I'm at least happy PS3 lets you mute people, otherwise I wouldn't even try gaming online.
Still, maybe it's just my old school philosophy in action. I never had voice chat on PC games and I made out fine. Hell, typing in games made me an excellent stenographer...now if only I wanted that profession.
When I game, I want to game with just my friends. I don't want any distractions. I'm at least happy PS3 lets you mute people, otherwise I wouldn't even try gaming online.
Still, maybe it's just my old school philosophy in action. I never had voice chat on PC games and I made out fine. Hell, typing in games made me an excellent stenographer...now if only I wanted that profession.
@Elsa - Ahh alright, I get what you're saying. It does seem, lately, that most people don't use game chat and tend to stay only in party chat while playing. And that probably does have a lot to do with the outbreak of 12-year-old kids screaming and ranting on games like COD. I have to admit that when I'm in party with close friends that I won't switch over to game chat because it's personal conversation - that and we usually have a full team, so there's really no reason to hear anyone else in game.
On the flip side - I'm not beyond barking orders and requests to people in game, even if they don't have a mic. :p Since everyone can hear me (I just can't hear them) it usually works out in the end. I understand though about not wanting to have that isolation in a game like MAG.
I've never played multiplayer on my PS3 so I'd imagine it's a whole different experience if you're not use to it. I'd be SO LOST!
On the flip side - I'm not beyond barking orders and requests to people in game, even if they don't have a mic. :p Since everyone can hear me (I just can't hear them) it usually works out in the end. I understand though about not wanting to have that isolation in a game like MAG.
I've never played multiplayer on my PS3 so I'd imagine it's a whole different experience if you're not use to it. I'd be SO LOST!
I have never used xgame chat on my xbox. I've also never used chat on my PS3...stupid bluetooth headset. However, in saying all this, I would prefer the option over not having it. If I don't use it, I don't use it. However, that shouldn't hinder others that will. If I want to play Nier and somebody playing Gears of War 2 wanted to chit chat with me, I have no reason to hate on that.
You bring up some interesting points, and that's something I hadn't really thought about before. Do you think that maybe things would be different on the 360 side of things if there were a MAG-type game (read: a game with more than 12 or so people per side)? What I mean by that is, if people NEEDED to communicate with more than just their party in order to win, do you think it would force people into game chat more than party chat?
The reason I bring this up is because, as it stands currently, there's never a reason for me (personally) to NOT be in a party with my friends when I game. If I'm playing multiplayer, I'm almost always playing with the people in my party, and because the party can be as big as 8, that's normally enough to fill out an entire team. So switching to game chat in that situation would be pretty much worthless...
To be honest, I see party chat as more of a group-management feature than anything. If I want to play, say, Bad Company 2 with a bunch of my usual team but they're all playing different games, it's so simple to just send them all a party invite, decide whether we want to play together, then just jump in the game together with a few button presses. I very rarely sit in a party with people playing different games (though I realize this does happen a lot); like I said, it's more of a tool for quickly getting a group of people into the same game as far as I'm concerned.
Anyway, not sure if all that makes sense, but I'm on my phone and I can't be bothered to go back through and proof it :)
TL;DR - Interesting points!
The reason I bring this up is because, as it stands currently, there's never a reason for me (personally) to NOT be in a party with my friends when I game. If I'm playing multiplayer, I'm almost always playing with the people in my party, and because the party can be as big as 8, that's normally enough to fill out an entire team. So switching to game chat in that situation would be pretty much worthless...
To be honest, I see party chat as more of a group-management feature than anything. If I want to play, say, Bad Company 2 with a bunch of my usual team but they're all playing different games, it's so simple to just send them all a party invite, decide whether we want to play together, then just jump in the game together with a few button presses. I very rarely sit in a party with people playing different games (though I realize this does happen a lot); like I said, it's more of a tool for quickly getting a group of people into the same game as far as I'm concerned.
Anyway, not sure if all that makes sense, but I'm on my phone and I can't be bothered to go back through and proof it :)
TL;DR - Interesting points!
Nicely said. It's a double-edged sword, definitely.
However, the most important game ever, L4D2, doesn't suffer because of it.
Also, smurfee mcgee <--add me.
However, the most important game ever, L4D2, doesn't suffer because of it.
Also, smurfee mcgee <--add me.
I like to think it offers flexibility on what you want to do, sometimes I'll get on game chat and try to get more involved with the game, other times I just want to play whatever and talk with my online friends.
I also think there are other reasons that could be to blame for the silent 360, for example, if on the PS3 you need to buy a headset then that weeds out a lot of people and leaves a certain amount that actually has some interest in team talk. There's also the fact that a good amount of years passed for xbl to get party chat, so by this point a lot of people were already annoyed and tired of the screamers/haters/singers/etc and party chat became a way out of it (the glorified mute kidplus mentions). And there's also a big chance that people are already past the meeting strangers and already have a group of people they'll play with when they want to do team work and be serious with a game.
I also think there are other reasons that could be to blame for the silent 360, for example, if on the PS3 you need to buy a headset then that weeds out a lot of people and leaves a certain amount that actually has some interest in team talk. There's also the fact that a good amount of years passed for xbl to get party chat, so by this point a lot of people were already annoyed and tired of the screamers/haters/singers/etc and party chat became a way out of it (the glorified mute kidplus mentions). And there's also a big chance that people are already past the meeting strangers and already have a group of people they'll play with when they want to do team work and be serious with a game.
To every single question, my answer is: NO. I've played the big modes, especially Domination. I don't know, maybe it's my bad luck, but I never experienced any teamwork. I'm not saying that there isn't, but personally I never experienced any with that game. :/
I remember people clamoring for that cross-game chat. I barely even message my Xbox Live friends, what would I do with party chat? I don't see the appeal.
My experience with Party Chat was an awkward conversation with a friend of a friend who subsequently booted me from the chat after I finally got my headset plugged in. Needless to say that's why I almost never use my headset. Perhaps if I actually tried a party chat with someone it'd be a better experience, but I rarely use my headset because nobody else seems to and I'm way self-conscious of my voice. Last thing I need is jackasses on XBL/PSN saying I have a gay voice, I get enough complaints like that on YouTube.
My experience with Party Chat was an awkward conversation with a friend of a friend who subsequently booted me from the chat after I finally got my headset plugged in. Needless to say that's why I almost never use my headset. Perhaps if I actually tried a party chat with someone it'd be a better experience, but I rarely use my headset because nobody else seems to and I'm way self-conscious of my voice. Last thing I need is jackasses on XBL/PSN saying I have a gay voice, I get enough complaints like that on YouTube.
@SephirothX - Of course, you bring up the point that probably answers everyone's thoughts on Xbox chat silently. I never thought of that. I just thought people didn't care to chat constructively.
But if everyone or mostly everyone is running party chat? That's like, rules against killing being enforced within a vacuum of anarchy but in reverse I guess. Something like that, I can't quite identify the concept.
But if everyone or mostly everyone is running party chat? That's like, rules against killing being enforced within a vacuum of anarchy but in reverse I guess. Something like that, I can't quite identify the concept.
@Elsa
The thing about party chat is that if you're not using it you're likely stuck with the 12 year old jimmyx's of the online gaming community. Everyone decent enough to have friends that want to play with them have already removed themselves from chatting with the team. With all the racism, sexism and homophobia online I can't blame them. The best you can do is invite or receive an invite from one of these cool people. I don't think it ruins games, but meeting up with other smart or friendly players and working as a team is that much harder.
I'm cool with it not being on PS3. People don't talk much as is, and with party chat I wouldn't be surprised if games became almost completely silent. The only 360 feature I truly envy is custom soundtracks on all games.
The thing about party chat is that if you're not using it you're likely stuck with the 12 year old jimmyx's of the online gaming community. Everyone decent enough to have friends that want to play with them have already removed themselves from chatting with the team. With all the racism, sexism and homophobia online I can't blame them. The best you can do is invite or receive an invite from one of these cool people. I don't think it ruins games, but meeting up with other smart or friendly players and working as a team is that much harder.
I'm cool with it not being on PS3. People don't talk much as is, and with party chat I wouldn't be surprised if games became almost completely silent. The only 360 feature I truly envy is custom soundtracks on all games.
I think it's a nice option to have, but one I'd seldom use. Rarely playing online myself, I think stuff like cross game chat and trophy notifications really ruins immersive gameplay experiences.
HEY, BLUE DOT!
Remember the other night when we were playing Sabo in MAG? I revived one of our non-english-speaking teammates, to which he replied in such a delightful voice, "thank you!" That wouldn't have happened if we were in party chat.
And remember in that Dom game we lost, where I was OIC, and one of our squads in an APC decided to spend the last few minutes gunning me down with their turret? I ran up to the walkway above the road, and every time I popped out they yelled out to get me. Then I dropped down and hopped into their vehicle... and when they realised where I had gotten to, the laughter and the plans of finding a sensor strike to blow up the APC! That wouldn't have happened if we were in party chat, either.
There's tons of fun that comes from proximity chat even aside from the clinical benefit of strategizing!
Remember the other night when we were playing Sabo in MAG? I revived one of our non-english-speaking teammates, to which he replied in such a delightful voice, "thank you!" That wouldn't have happened if we were in party chat.
And remember in that Dom game we lost, where I was OIC, and one of our squads in an APC decided to spend the last few minutes gunning me down with their turret? I ran up to the walkway above the road, and every time I popped out they yelled out to get me. Then I dropped down and hopped into their vehicle... and when they realised where I had gotten to, the laughter and the plans of finding a sensor strike to blow up the APC! That wouldn't have happened if we were in party chat, either.
There's tons of fun that comes from proximity chat even aside from the clinical benefit of strategizing!
Does the ps3 come with a headset now? Normally there's not much talking going on anyway. That said, I almost always use party chat on xbox if I'm playing online, if only so I don't have to listen to all the racial/homophobic slurs. Also, usually if I'm playing an online multiplayer game (which is kind of rare now), I'm playing on a team with my buddies anyway. I don't think it should ever be banned; it should be up to the player if he or she wants to use it or not.
Still, you did put a fresh perspective on things; nice work!
Still, you did put a fresh perspective on things; nice work!
Great stuff Elsa - I haven't thought about this in depth before. I honestly love the 360's chat system because it offers almost every chat option possible - wheras the PS3 is a bit limited. But like you said, there's a reason for it - and ultimately it's up to us to decide what kind of communication we prefer.
With all due respect I think you are too focused on the "cross game chat" title which is something only a primary Playstation player would call it.
Its Party Chat and I've found that since it was added to the 360 its increased teamwork. I can now go play a game (take gears of war as an example), set up a party with my brothers and friends and play the game in a party where we don't have to hear anybody else. We can play and not once have to listen to some assholes shitty hip-hop or the 10 year old crying because he got destroyed.
You have made the assumption that because you can't hear everybody then clearly they are all talking to people who are all playing different games and I can assure you that isn't the case.
Get online in a 5vs5 gametype with 4 friends and tell me why you wouldn't want to silence the idiocy of online interactions by setting up a personal chat space?
Its Party Chat and I've found that since it was added to the 360 its increased teamwork. I can now go play a game (take gears of war as an example), set up a party with my brothers and friends and play the game in a party where we don't have to hear anybody else. We can play and not once have to listen to some assholes shitty hip-hop or the 10 year old crying because he got destroyed.
You have made the assumption that because you can't hear everybody then clearly they are all talking to people who are all playing different games and I can assure you that isn't the case.
Get online in a 5vs5 gametype with 4 friends and tell me why you wouldn't want to silence the idiocy of online interactions by setting up a personal chat space?
You can't hear that person shouting that they have the flag and need cover, you can't hear that person yelling that there's a sniper covering an objective or that there's a dickhead with a shottie camping the spawn.
lol, nobody says that in games! You must be mistaking shouts of "fag" "mother fucker" "shit head" "twat waffle" and "newb" for actual tactical codewords or something.
... so... does this mean I won't be seeing you on 360 multiplayer anytime soon? You never did renew your gold did you? :(
lol, nobody says that in games! You must be mistaking shouts of "fag" "mother fucker" "shit head" "twat waffle" and "newb" for actual tactical codewords or something.
... so... does this mean I won't be seeing you on 360 multiplayer anytime soon? You never did renew your gold did you? :(
What a great blog. Before I bought my PS3 I had heard all the rumors of how PSN was so inferior to XBL because,nobody had headsets,lack of party chat,etc so I was a bit reluctant to even play any team based online games.
I never planned to buy a multi-platform game on PS3
What I never realized is that the above issues could actually be a good thing for all the reasons you mention.
The lack of party chat in games like BFBC2 is a game changer. With more focus on "whole team" teamwork it's like playing a totally different game.
On the occasions when I do want to party up with my friends,we will use Skype. This is a great work a round because you can talk to each other and still hear everyone else.
As for The lack of people with headsets, While this is "semi" true.this can be a good thing too. It "seems" like the randoms on PSN are "a bit" more mature. While there are still many bad apples,especially in COD,I have found that there are far less Racist,sexist,music blaring idiots,and more "whole team" teamwork on PSN.
Fast Forward to now (after 2 years with PS3) I have since let my Gold membership run it's course,and I now buy all my multiplatform games on PS3.
None of this is because I don't like Live.(I do) It's because It's almost the exact same service minus a few social aspects I don't really need for free.
Is Live a better more feature filled service? Mostly Yes. $60 better? For me personally? No..
I never planned to buy a multi-platform game on PS3
What I never realized is that the above issues could actually be a good thing for all the reasons you mention.
The lack of party chat in games like BFBC2 is a game changer. With more focus on "whole team" teamwork it's like playing a totally different game.
On the occasions when I do want to party up with my friends,we will use Skype. This is a great work a round because you can talk to each other and still hear everyone else.
As for The lack of people with headsets, While this is "semi" true.this can be a good thing too. It "seems" like the randoms on PSN are "a bit" more mature. While there are still many bad apples,especially in COD,I have found that there are far less Racist,sexist,music blaring idiots,and more "whole team" teamwork on PSN.
Fast Forward to now (after 2 years with PS3) I have since let my Gold membership run it's course,and I now buy all my multiplatform games on PS3.
None of this is because I don't like Live.(I do) It's because It's almost the exact same service minus a few social aspects I don't really need for free.
Is Live a better more feature filled service? Mostly Yes. $60 better? For me personally? No..
If you only had a ps3 perhaps you would feel like you needed it :) Neat blog and WHAT , how can you manage to browse the internet on your ps3 , I think that it's a pretty horrendous experience ! But I do get your points, great as always Elsa!
@Jaded... the problem is that on the 360, you can still bark orders, but nobody can hear you because they are all on party chat. On the PS3 it is different because even if people don't have a mic - they can at least all hear you.
@manasteel... I think a lot of people want the option, but in having the option for party chat, it does affect the online play and hinders anyone who is in game chat and expects that others can actually hear them.
@Andy... I don't know that people would give up party chat for a game that is very team oriented. I guess people will find out with the next Battlefield game because it's no longer squad chat but is now full team chat. It would be interesting to compare playing the game on the PS3 and playing it on the 360 using game chat. Personally, I like party chat on the PS3 and suspect others also prefer using it - regardless of whether the game suffers.
@smurfee... "double edged sword"! - yup!! (and L4D2 is very small numbers, so yeah, it doesn't really matter so much)
@Venus.. wow! What bad luck. I'm rarely in a Dom or Acqui game where somebody isn't on mic.
@Tonic... I'm often mistaken for a man with an effeminate voice - and yeah, the nastiness is far worse than being female! Still, for every jackass, there are several other really nice people out there.
@kidplus... it's easy to mute the occasional jackass... but some of them are also genuinely amusing. :)
(and yeah, mics are becoming more common, but not everyone has one as yet - you're right... PS3 games would likely become dead silent if we had cross game party chat - which is what I fear)
@Kyle... I don't think it ruins the experience - but it makes for a very different experience. Everyone will have their preference and right now people have a choice of differing experiences on the PS3 or the 360 - I just wouldn't want everyone to have no choice at all.
Byronic Man... EXACTLY. That was all just in one night's play - and every night has different moments - all arising because we can hear each other.
@Rhuno... you can use most any bluetooth mic with PS3. What with the no driving and being on the phone thing, most people with a cell phone have a spare bluetooth mic around. I'm also not suggesting that party chat be banned on the xbox, I'm merely suggesting that the PS3 remain a different experience by not bringing Cross Game Party Chat to the PS3. I like the differing experiences.
@Caitlin... the problem is that all the options on the 360 actually limit chat - because people that want to hear their team in a team based game... they can't. Both the PS3 AND the 360 have their limitations - but my own preference is for the limitations on the PS3 - that I'm forced to listen to my team in an online game.
@Scotty... no, I haven't renewed my gold yet... I'm waiting on either a decent sale on a year of gold or getting it for Christmas. I find on the PS3 that if I start talking strategy... others do as well. A lot of people seem to play muted and when you start saying things like "they're coming in on the left" I often hear people un-muting themselves to respond and give additional info.
@McBattery... my thoughts EXACTLY (especially on the value of gold). Sometimes more options like cross game chat aren't necessarily "good" options. It's just different. I do like it, especially when playing smaller games or single player games, but I think if cross game chat is present, then devs are under extreme pressure to include it in all games and as I've noted, it would have long reaching consequences for teambased gameplay - consequences that I don't want. :(
@manasteel... I think a lot of people want the option, but in having the option for party chat, it does affect the online play and hinders anyone who is in game chat and expects that others can actually hear them.
@Andy... I don't know that people would give up party chat for a game that is very team oriented. I guess people will find out with the next Battlefield game because it's no longer squad chat but is now full team chat. It would be interesting to compare playing the game on the PS3 and playing it on the 360 using game chat. Personally, I like party chat on the PS3 and suspect others also prefer using it - regardless of whether the game suffers.
@smurfee... "double edged sword"! - yup!! (and L4D2 is very small numbers, so yeah, it doesn't really matter so much)
@Venus.. wow! What bad luck. I'm rarely in a Dom or Acqui game where somebody isn't on mic.
@Tonic... I'm often mistaken for a man with an effeminate voice - and yeah, the nastiness is far worse than being female! Still, for every jackass, there are several other really nice people out there.
@kidplus... it's easy to mute the occasional jackass... but some of them are also genuinely amusing. :)
(and yeah, mics are becoming more common, but not everyone has one as yet - you're right... PS3 games would likely become dead silent if we had cross game party chat - which is what I fear)
@Kyle... I don't think it ruins the experience - but it makes for a very different experience. Everyone will have their preference and right now people have a choice of differing experiences on the PS3 or the 360 - I just wouldn't want everyone to have no choice at all.
Byronic Man... EXACTLY. That was all just in one night's play - and every night has different moments - all arising because we can hear each other.
@Rhuno... you can use most any bluetooth mic with PS3. What with the no driving and being on the phone thing, most people with a cell phone have a spare bluetooth mic around. I'm also not suggesting that party chat be banned on the xbox, I'm merely suggesting that the PS3 remain a different experience by not bringing Cross Game Party Chat to the PS3. I like the differing experiences.
@Caitlin... the problem is that all the options on the 360 actually limit chat - because people that want to hear their team in a team based game... they can't. Both the PS3 AND the 360 have their limitations - but my own preference is for the limitations on the PS3 - that I'm forced to listen to my team in an online game.
@Scotty... no, I haven't renewed my gold yet... I'm waiting on either a decent sale on a year of gold or getting it for Christmas. I find on the PS3 that if I start talking strategy... others do as well. A lot of people seem to play muted and when you start saying things like "they're coming in on the left" I often hear people un-muting themselves to respond and give additional info.
@McBattery... my thoughts EXACTLY (especially on the value of gold). Sometimes more options like cross game chat aren't necessarily "good" options. It's just different. I do like it, especially when playing smaller games or single player games, but I think if cross game chat is present, then devs are under extreme pressure to include it in all games and as I've noted, it would have long reaching consequences for teambased gameplay - consequences that I don't want. :(
Team work. Some people say that they have never experienced it in a console game, but it is wonderful when you do...and it does exist.
I was plying CoD BLOPs on PS3 two weeks ago, just playing some ‘randoms’. And, I landed in a good working room with low lag, so I stayed. About two games in a CLAN rolled into the room and I was the eighth-man on their team. As so as the mach started one of the team started calling out orders, reminders specific for that map and the rest of the team was calling flag captures. It was wonderful.
We did not just roll the other team; we absolutely crushed them in points. And, the room was not lagging for one side or the other, you saw no stutter or indications that we were at an advantage - except tactically. We captured and held the flags, we stopped all attempts at capturing anything, and the game was over before it started. I even was in the top four, having one of the best games ever.
I have had a few games like that in BLOPs, but it is rare that someone on the team barks out intelligent orders and people have the good sense to follow some directions. It reminded me of SOCOM on PS2. In those game, with the first two games for sure, a culture was cultivated that accepted that someone on the team would say something about the game plan. It was expected, it was accepted, and it was HOW the game was played. Ironic that this was in an era where it was harder to talk, push to talk, and yet more people talked.
If Sony should work on ANYTHING, it should be working on how to foster teamwork in the game people are playing! Our brains are actually very simplistic; you can get most people to do many things just by nudging at their drives slightly. I sure a behavioral psychologist could tell game makers ten visual, auditory, and game play cues that would make people ‘call out’ tactically in a game.
I was plying CoD BLOPs on PS3 two weeks ago, just playing some ‘randoms’. And, I landed in a good working room with low lag, so I stayed. About two games in a CLAN rolled into the room and I was the eighth-man on their team. As so as the mach started one of the team started calling out orders, reminders specific for that map and the rest of the team was calling flag captures. It was wonderful.
We did not just roll the other team; we absolutely crushed them in points. And, the room was not lagging for one side or the other, you saw no stutter or indications that we were at an advantage - except tactically. We captured and held the flags, we stopped all attempts at capturing anything, and the game was over before it started. I even was in the top four, having one of the best games ever.
I have had a few games like that in BLOPs, but it is rare that someone on the team barks out intelligent orders and people have the good sense to follow some directions. It reminded me of SOCOM on PS2. In those game, with the first two games for sure, a culture was cultivated that accepted that someone on the team would say something about the game plan. It was expected, it was accepted, and it was HOW the game was played. Ironic that this was in an era where it was harder to talk, push to talk, and yet more people talked.
If Sony should work on ANYTHING, it should be working on how to foster teamwork in the game people are playing! Our brains are actually very simplistic; you can get most people to do many things just by nudging at their drives slightly. I sure a behavioral psychologist could tell game makers ten visual, auditory, and game play cues that would make people ‘call out’ tactically in a game.
I thought about this a bit more last night, and I feel like the overall theme of this blog seems to be that choice is a bad thing. After all, it assumes that, if given the choice to either use or not use party chat, most PS3 users would choose to use it, and that choice would be to the detriment of the console's game-centric focus. So basically, by withholding this feature, Sony is making their console a better experience.
I'm not sure I agree with this line of thinking.
Let's pretend for a moment that MAG (or an equivalent) is on the 360. Isn't the type of gamer who plays a game like this intelligent enough to understand that when you have 32 players on your team, it's more important to be out of a party than in one? And if they didn't come to that realization on their own, wouldn't they ultimately lose (since communication is key) enough games that they'd eventually give up on the game? Thus, wouldn't any "weak links" be weeded out and likely head over to something like, I don't know, Call of Duty (where their K/D matters more than a W at the end of the match)?
Does that make any sense?
I guess what I'm trying to say is that I'm always in favor of giving people more choices whenever possible. The type of gamer who plays MAG the way it's supposed to be played will ALWAYS exist -- party chat be damned -- and giving the rest of the PS3 users the option of party chat can do nothing but expand upon the console's already feature-heavy offerings.
Anyway, that's my $0.02 :)
I'm not sure I agree with this line of thinking.
Let's pretend for a moment that MAG (or an equivalent) is on the 360. Isn't the type of gamer who plays a game like this intelligent enough to understand that when you have 32 players on your team, it's more important to be out of a party than in one? And if they didn't come to that realization on their own, wouldn't they ultimately lose (since communication is key) enough games that they'd eventually give up on the game? Thus, wouldn't any "weak links" be weeded out and likely head over to something like, I don't know, Call of Duty (where their K/D matters more than a W at the end of the match)?
Does that make any sense?
I guess what I'm trying to say is that I'm always in favor of giving people more choices whenever possible. The type of gamer who plays MAG the way it's supposed to be played will ALWAYS exist -- party chat be damned -- and giving the rest of the PS3 users the option of party chat can do nothing but expand upon the console's already feature-heavy offerings.
Anyway, that's my $0.02 :)
It's really easy to say that you don't want it anymore after Sony explicitly came out and said that it's not possible on the PS3. Also, just because it isn't a perfect fit for MAG (your favorite game) doesn't mean it wouldn't be helpful in 40 other situations.
Basically, it's a convenience. Meeting up in a party, planning what you want to play, launching into that game with everyone instantly and never breaking up the conversation is lovely. Obviously, it caters to the casual audience more than the hardcore military strategists but just because it's there doesn't mean you have to use it.
Basically, it's a convenience. Meeting up in a party, planning what you want to play, launching into that game with everyone instantly and never breaking up the conversation is lovely. Obviously, it caters to the casual audience more than the hardcore military strategists but just because it's there doesn't mean you have to use it.
@Andy ... the thing is that there is no "choice" on the 360. Most everyone is in party chat so if you want to play a team based game and speak to other people on your team - you simply can't (with most games unless the devs disable party chat). I think that if party chat came to the PS3, there would be the same problem.
On the PS3, the only choice we have is game chat. On the 360, the only choice a person who wants to play with game chat has, is to know that most of the people on their team can't hear them. Neither choice is optimal... but the thing is that right now people can choose a 360 with party chat or they can choose a PS3 that only has game chat (and party chat is restricted to outside of the game)
I like that each of the consoles is currently a different choice. For multiplayer team based games I would choose the PS3, because team chat is a personal preference. For multiplayer games that require no communication, then I might opt for a 360 version of the game. I don't want to see that "choice" removed by both consoles offering the same voice chat options.
On the PS3, the only choice we have is game chat. On the 360, the only choice a person who wants to play with game chat has, is to know that most of the people on their team can't hear them. Neither choice is optimal... but the thing is that right now people can choose a 360 with party chat or they can choose a PS3 that only has game chat (and party chat is restricted to outside of the game)
I like that each of the consoles is currently a different choice. For multiplayer team based games I would choose the PS3, because team chat is a personal preference. For multiplayer games that require no communication, then I might opt for a 360 version of the game. I don't want to see that "choice" removed by both consoles offering the same voice chat options.
Elsa, you said yourself that some games on PS3 either have terrible voice chat support on none at all! The existence of party chat does not negate the fact that all these 360 games still have regular voice chat on top of that. To act like you have no choice when you're on 360 is silly. More often than not, you're left with fewer choices on PS3.
@Andy
I don't think it's fair to say that choice is always a good thing, especially when everyone chooses the one option that makes the other options moot.
I don't think it's fair to say that choice is always a good thing, especially when everyone chooses the one option that makes the other options moot.
Every time the Playstation Blog posts about a new firmware update, there's always a bunch of people complaining about the lack of Cross Game Chat. Hell, it doesn't even have to be a post about the firmware. I don't even have a mic, so I don't really care about it, but next time I see one of them shouting about the lack of CGC, I'm posting a link to this blog.
@Elsa
I get what you're saying overall, but I think you're missing my point about MAG in particular.
By design, a game like MAG would FORCE people to use game chat over party chat because otherwise they'd lose the match. Thus, nobody serious about the game would use party chat, and the people who prefer to ONLY use party chat would likely migrate elsewhere or skip the game entirely. (Or, what's more, Zipper could simply turn it off for everyone!)
As for single-player games, nobody can be blamed for ruining one's experience but oneself. I NEVER play a single-player game in a party, nor do I understand why anybody would. That said, if some people enjoy chatting it up with their friends while they play through a solo campaign, I'd never want to take that joy away from them.
@Byronic Man
But why should everybody who buys a PS3 be excluded from using party chat simply because you don't like it for the types of games you play? That hardly seems fair.
People play the types of games that reward their chosen playstyle, and as I said above, those players who prefer party chat would likely never play MAG because they wouldn't benefit from the experience. (Or, again, the developers of these types of games could simply choose to disable it by default.)
@both of you
Don't get me wrong, I see the benefits of what you're talking about, I really do. But what would be simpler: Sony enabling party chat but leaving it up to the developers to exclude it (in the case of MAG, etc.), or Sony doing nothing at all and forcing those of us who play games like UT3 or Dead Nation (until recently) to suffer with poor chat options (or in the case of the latter, no chat at all)?
I, for one, would much rather see a unified, OS-based chat solution for all games, and one that developers can choose to turn off should they deem it necessary. In that case, EVERYONE benefits from having more choices.
I get what you're saying overall, but I think you're missing my point about MAG in particular.
By design, a game like MAG would FORCE people to use game chat over party chat because otherwise they'd lose the match. Thus, nobody serious about the game would use party chat, and the people who prefer to ONLY use party chat would likely migrate elsewhere or skip the game entirely. (Or, what's more, Zipper could simply turn it off for everyone!)
As for single-player games, nobody can be blamed for ruining one's experience but oneself. I NEVER play a single-player game in a party, nor do I understand why anybody would. That said, if some people enjoy chatting it up with their friends while they play through a solo campaign, I'd never want to take that joy away from them.
@Byronic Man
But why should everybody who buys a PS3 be excluded from using party chat simply because you don't like it for the types of games you play? That hardly seems fair.
People play the types of games that reward their chosen playstyle, and as I said above, those players who prefer party chat would likely never play MAG because they wouldn't benefit from the experience. (Or, again, the developers of these types of games could simply choose to disable it by default.)
@both of you
Don't get me wrong, I see the benefits of what you're talking about, I really do. But what would be simpler: Sony enabling party chat but leaving it up to the developers to exclude it (in the case of MAG, etc.), or Sony doing nothing at all and forcing those of us who play games like UT3 or Dead Nation (until recently) to suffer with poor chat options (or in the case of the latter, no chat at all)?
I, for one, would much rather see a unified, OS-based chat solution for all games, and one that developers can choose to turn off should they deem it necessary. In that case, EVERYONE benefits from having more choices.
TL;DR version (sorry about that) - I get what you're saying about the different philosophies, I just think we could have the best of both worlds by enabling party chat, while at the same time allowing developers to restrict it. Isn't that a win/win?
@Andy
Because the alternative means that everybody loses. Unless, like Elsa says, you have limited party chat all round depending on the game.
Because the alternative means that everybody loses. Unless, like Elsa says, you have limited party chat all round depending on the game.
@Andy... I thought of that too.. until the failed experiment in COD on the 360. From what I read, the devs tried to disable party chat in certain team based game modes... but the complaints were loud and vivid (as they always are from gamers) so the devs relented and allowed party chat in all games since then.
.... the most vocal group tends to win these battles... and in the end I think that most devs would enable it if it was there so as to not lose any sales. Teamwork be damned... give the people what they want.
If some 360 games actually did successfully disable party chat and showed that it could work, that people would still buy the games, that they wouldn't complain.. and that the devs wouldn't relent - I might have a different view, but I think that it would be the very rare game that would run the risk of disabling party chat. :(
.... the most vocal group tends to win these battles... and in the end I think that most devs would enable it if it was there so as to not lose any sales. Teamwork be damned... give the people what they want.
If some 360 games actually did successfully disable party chat and showed that it could work, that people would still buy the games, that they wouldn't complain.. and that the devs wouldn't relent - I might have a different view, but I think that it would be the very rare game that would run the risk of disabling party chat. :(
@Byronic Man
"Wait... aren't you arguing the same thing Elsa is?"
Elsa's arguing for NO party chat AT ALL on the PS3. ("The PS3 does not need party chat.") I'm arguing FOR party chat so that the gamers who desire it have the option to use it, but also for developers to be granted the ability to disable it based on the type of game or the experience they desire for their player base.
But, as Elsa points out, maybe that's simply asking for too much where gamers are concerned.
@Elsa
Fair enough. I suppose the (vocal) majority does rule these days, and CoD players are certainly vocal and in the majority.
Still, I'd love to see a world in which we can have it both ways without having to buy two consoles. I wouldn't have nearly as many online friends (who have since turned into IRL friends) if it weren't for LIVE parties, and it sucks that PS3 gamers who DO want party chat have to buy another console in order to get what (most) 360 gamers have been enjoying for years. Maybe I'm just a dreamer... :(
@both of you (and anybody else)
I'm curious to see what you think will happen when the PS4 inevitably comes out with party chat. (Because we all know it will.) Will that be the end of MAG-type games?
"Wait... aren't you arguing the same thing Elsa is?"
Elsa's arguing for NO party chat AT ALL on the PS3. ("The PS3 does not need party chat.") I'm arguing FOR party chat so that the gamers who desire it have the option to use it, but also for developers to be granted the ability to disable it based on the type of game or the experience they desire for their player base.
But, as Elsa points out, maybe that's simply asking for too much where gamers are concerned.
@Elsa
Fair enough. I suppose the (vocal) majority does rule these days, and CoD players are certainly vocal and in the majority.
Still, I'd love to see a world in which we can have it both ways without having to buy two consoles. I wouldn't have nearly as many online friends (who have since turned into IRL friends) if it weren't for LIVE parties, and it sucks that PS3 gamers who DO want party chat have to buy another console in order to get what (most) 360 gamers have been enjoying for years. Maybe I'm just a dreamer... :(
@both of you (and anybody else)
I'm curious to see what you think will happen when the PS4 inevitably comes out with party chat. (Because we all know it will.) Will that be the end of MAG-type games?
@Elsa - I meant to say people that didn't have a mic and not in a party. Sorry for my sloppy wording there. I was multitasking...guess I suck at it. lol
The PS4 is a good question! I rather hope that Sony will take a fairly firm stance on only allowing cross game chat for certain games. It might be too much to hope for - but yeah, I would rather see it be an option for single player games only (or very limited in it's use for multiplayer games).
I think that the upcoming Starhawk experience will tell Sony a lot about how party chat might affect games. They plan for having clan chat being an option instead of game chat (you can chat with people in your clan in various games rather than people on your team). There was talk of disabling it for certain game modes... but it will be interesting to see if there are complaints against the use of clan chat.
I don't know that it would end games like MAG... but I think that the frustrations of playing a game like that with nobody listening would mean that the community would drop, the sales of games like MAG would drop... and yeah, in the end it might mean smaller mode games that better accomodate party chat, rather than larger games that depend on team chat and communication.
.. though as Byronic pointed out... I think it's the little things I would miss the most - the fun of prox chat, the randoms that you meet, "that guy"... the one who won't shut up but is funny without even knowing it... that kid that has never been squad leader before and thanks you for the help when you patiently explain how to frago something... that guy having the fight with his wife - yeah - it's all those fun little moments that I would miss just as much as the strategizing.
I think that the upcoming Starhawk experience will tell Sony a lot about how party chat might affect games. They plan for having clan chat being an option instead of game chat (you can chat with people in your clan in various games rather than people on your team). There was talk of disabling it for certain game modes... but it will be interesting to see if there are complaints against the use of clan chat.
I don't know that it would end games like MAG... but I think that the frustrations of playing a game like that with nobody listening would mean that the community would drop, the sales of games like MAG would drop... and yeah, in the end it might mean smaller mode games that better accomodate party chat, rather than larger games that depend on team chat and communication.
.. though as Byronic pointed out... I think it's the little things I would miss the most - the fun of prox chat, the randoms that you meet, "that guy"... the one who won't shut up but is funny without even knowing it... that kid that has never been squad leader before and thanks you for the help when you patiently explain how to frago something... that guy having the fight with his wife - yeah - it's all those fun little moments that I would miss just as much as the strategizing.
@Elsa
I get what you're saying about the "little things" we're missing out on by not being in game chat -- I really do! I've experienced many in my gaming life, and they make for great stories indeed.
However, if I had to choose between the "little things" that happen in game/proximity chat and the "little things" that happen in party chat, I'd choose party every time.
To each his (or her!) own :)
I get what you're saying about the "little things" we're missing out on by not being in game chat -- I really do! I've experienced many in my gaming life, and they make for great stories indeed.
However, if I had to choose between the "little things" that happen in game/proximity chat and the "little things" that happen in party chat, I'd choose party every time.
To each his (or her!) own :)
