surf dtoid with 
Rising (10+)
People you follow
send message
follow
followers
Oh lord, you've once again managed to hit right at home with me, great blog Elsa, I'm showing this to my friends girlfriends as she is highly active in these kind of discussions, not video game related issues though. God , I don't even want to think about the pains of explaining to your son that he shouldn't feel bad about himself just because he doesn't have the biceps the size of his head or your daughter how Elizabeth really is in a lot of pain because her ribs are about to snap.
I wonder what the response would be ? - But they are having fun , they are like superheroes! *punches kid and walks out of the room*
Anyways great blog as always!
I wonder what the response would be ? - But they are having fun , they are like superheroes! *punches kid and walks out of the room*
Anyways great blog as always!
Also , I always though something was off with Elizabeth , she looks like betty boop or a parody of a sexy woman, exaggerated to the point that she is almost a comic character , not a "realistic" one as the rest of the game suggests.
I'd simply want my daughter to be true to herself, and I'd tell her that. If she sees something in a scene she's into, whether it's being a goth or a raver or a prep. I'd just want to remind her if she thinks it's worth it.
You forgot to mention Cate Archer from "No One Lives Forever". Her look may be based on 60's fashion, but nothing about her screams super-model or fantasy. She's just a woman with a gun.
I've always wondered the kind of impact that fantasy has had on me. I don't find a great number of women that attractive and I often can't even speak to the ones I do. Maybe my standards are so damn high because of all this media?
Regardless of any of this, if someone feels the need to change their body, isn't that their own right? I've constantly changed my hair color and whether it's because of my own lack of self-confidence or cultural perception, aren't I entitled to do so?
I've always wondered the kind of impact that fantasy has had on me. I don't find a great number of women that attractive and I often can't even speak to the ones I do. Maybe my standards are so damn high because of all this media?
Regardless of any of this, if someone feels the need to change their body, isn't that their own right? I've constantly changed my hair color and whether it's because of my own lack of self-confidence or cultural perception, aren't I entitled to do so?
It's really good how you took all the other arguements that were on the other previous de-bates (pronounced de-baaa-tes) and formed them into a nice, clear concise arguement while also presenting the most convincing arguement against what is a becoming a serious issue.
Also this stuff about the women in Japan actually makes me feel physically sick.
I do believe you were a bit harsh when you refererred to anime as a "pedophile's fantasy", but I may of been taking it out of context.
Also this stuff about the women in Japan actually makes me feel physically sick.
I do believe you were a bit harsh when you refererred to anime as a "pedophile's fantasy", but I may of been taking it out of context.
I get the style of the period, but there's really no reason to give a character a 1 inch waist. They can model the character in other ways to accentuate female curves without creating an unrealistic body type and without sacrificing the look of the time period.
I'm really conflicted when it comes to kids - living with my 15 year old cousin has put some things into perspective for me. On one hand, I'm glad to see that she's living an extremely happy childhood and has practically everything a teenage girl could ask for, including the clothes and make up and hair accessories. But on the other hand I feel that children really shouldn't feel like they have to wear make up every day, that it's okay if their hair isn't perfect or their clothes aren't cool. I feel it builds up character when you're your own person before you ever have to think about style or social obligations. I guess if I ever had a daughter I'd want to teach her that style and beauty isn't a necessary part of life, it's just a hobby that shouldn't be taken too far.
I'm really conflicted when it comes to kids - living with my 15 year old cousin has put some things into perspective for me. On one hand, I'm glad to see that she's living an extremely happy childhood and has practically everything a teenage girl could ask for, including the clothes and make up and hair accessories. But on the other hand I feel that children really shouldn't feel like they have to wear make up every day, that it's okay if their hair isn't perfect or their clothes aren't cool. I feel it builds up character when you're your own person before you ever have to think about style or social obligations. I guess if I ever had a daughter I'd want to teach her that style and beauty isn't a necessary part of life, it's just a hobby that shouldn't be taken too far.
@PK... yeah, it was a bit harsh LOL! I almost included a section on "fashion" through the ages, but the Japanese foot binding picture really was gross (as was the neck stretching done by some tribal women of south east asia). For some reason, throughout history, women seem to want to deform our bodies to achieve "perfection". :(
@KingSigy... I'm not familiar with that character but was she a playable main character in the game or a peripheral supporting AI character?
In terms of hair color (or even the anime contacts) those are all temporary things and yeah, there will always be a fashion trend that sees temporary changes (though I wonder about the long term effects of wearing black contacts?). Corsets, if worn a lot, or worn tight as they were in the Victorian era - it's not a temporary thing. It creates life-long health issues and very real changes to the body internally. High heels are the same... back/foot issues and other problems later in life. I see no harm in harmless fashion, but when fantasy evokes negative health effects I just don't see that it should be encouraged. :(
@Strider... but is it being "true" to herself to have breast augmentation or other plastic surgery to be perceived as beautiful? If she goes steam-punk and starts wearing some of the "extreme" corsets that are on the market, is that worth it? What if the next trend is foot binding for small feet? We can teach our children that they are beautiful, but their own perception will often be based on media - which we as current consumers can have an impact on.
@Kaggen... the picture is apparently of an actual woman... and yeah, that's what Elizabeth would look like in real life I guess. Personally I see no beauty in that image - only caracature. It's almost gross because it's such a distortion of the actual female form. Oh... and the biceps thing... steroided weight lifter bodies are another thing I personally find somewhat disgusting... again, it just seems so incredibly un-natural!
@Caitlin... I agree that they could have used clothing of the period but with a more healthy body image!! That would have been so much cooler of the dev and a positive influence.
In terms of kids... again, I don't have as much an issue with temporary changes, but so many of the fashions of today are very real and permanent body changes. I don't thinkt that 15 year old kids should be begging for a boob job, a tummy tuck or eye surgery so that they can be pretty. :(
@KingSigy... I'm not familiar with that character but was she a playable main character in the game or a peripheral supporting AI character?
In terms of hair color (or even the anime contacts) those are all temporary things and yeah, there will always be a fashion trend that sees temporary changes (though I wonder about the long term effects of wearing black contacts?). Corsets, if worn a lot, or worn tight as they were in the Victorian era - it's not a temporary thing. It creates life-long health issues and very real changes to the body internally. High heels are the same... back/foot issues and other problems later in life. I see no harm in harmless fashion, but when fantasy evokes negative health effects I just don't see that it should be encouraged. :(
@Strider... but is it being "true" to herself to have breast augmentation or other plastic surgery to be perceived as beautiful? If she goes steam-punk and starts wearing some of the "extreme" corsets that are on the market, is that worth it? What if the next trend is foot binding for small feet? We can teach our children that they are beautiful, but their own perception will often be based on media - which we as current consumers can have an impact on.
@Kaggen... the picture is apparently of an actual woman... and yeah, that's what Elizabeth would look like in real life I guess. Personally I see no beauty in that image - only caracature. It's almost gross because it's such a distortion of the actual female form. Oh... and the biceps thing... steroided weight lifter bodies are another thing I personally find somewhat disgusting... again, it just seems so incredibly un-natural!
@Caitlin... I agree that they could have used clothing of the period but with a more healthy body image!! That would have been so much cooler of the dev and a positive influence.
In terms of kids... again, I don't have as much an issue with temporary changes, but so many of the fashions of today are very real and permanent body changes. I don't thinkt that 15 year old kids should be begging for a boob job, a tummy tuck or eye surgery so that they can be pretty. :(
You're forgetting that Bioshock also veers toward a more cartoon-ish looking for its characters - one being overexaggerated features. This applies to both men and women. And it is a representative of a period. Yeah, its still fiction, but its important to have consistency when referencing a period.
Deus Ex; Human Revolution did it, too. Victorian/Renaissance stuff all over. Eliza was model "perfect," but then, she was supposed to be as she was an AI.
IGN failed to look at the whole picture of the issue and instead threw around words it didn't know the meaning of so they could look pro-feminist and get their idiot fans to bob their heads in a agreement.
Bioshock we're still judging well before we've seen the rest of the game. If people had to redraw characters over and over for the sake of pleasing a bunch of whiny idiots on the internet, they'd never get the game done. I'd rather then focus on getting the game out than worry what one character looks like.
I liked Elizabeth because of how her eyes told half the story in that demo and her powers did the rest. Her look could very well be intended to serve an identifiable contrast. She's critical to gameplay choices so you want her to stand out in some non-generic way.
Changing her look now would be cheap. You already have fans and costplays of her.
With Ivy you have a point because rather than keep her as she was visually in SC or SC2, they've just gone full-on stupid with her design for three games now. Not to mention her move set has sucked the last two games. Taki's get-up looks painted on. Hilde is about the only character with a shred of class now.
Ivy's design is no longer just insulting to women, but now its also insulting to men. Here they've made a tragic heroine a slut and not through character, but continuous design choices and bad game design.
I liked Ivy because of her complex moveset and now they've changed her so much so often I can't even like her for that. In SC2, you could play a good headgame against your opponent and that felt in-line with the character, now she telegraphs all her shit and gets punished for it.
Deus Ex; Human Revolution did it, too. Victorian/Renaissance stuff all over. Eliza was model "perfect," but then, she was supposed to be as she was an AI.
IGN failed to look at the whole picture of the issue and instead threw around words it didn't know the meaning of so they could look pro-feminist and get their idiot fans to bob their heads in a agreement.
Bioshock we're still judging well before we've seen the rest of the game. If people had to redraw characters over and over for the sake of pleasing a bunch of whiny idiots on the internet, they'd never get the game done. I'd rather then focus on getting the game out than worry what one character looks like.
I liked Elizabeth because of how her eyes told half the story in that demo and her powers did the rest. Her look could very well be intended to serve an identifiable contrast. She's critical to gameplay choices so you want her to stand out in some non-generic way.
Changing her look now would be cheap. You already have fans and costplays of her.
With Ivy you have a point because rather than keep her as she was visually in SC or SC2, they've just gone full-on stupid with her design for three games now. Not to mention her move set has sucked the last two games. Taki's get-up looks painted on. Hilde is about the only character with a shred of class now.
Ivy's design is no longer just insulting to women, but now its also insulting to men. Here they've made a tragic heroine a slut and not through character, but continuous design choices and bad game design.
I liked Ivy because of her complex moveset and now they've changed her so much so often I can't even like her for that. In SC2, you could play a good headgame against your opponent and that felt in-line with the character, now she telegraphs all her shit and gets punished for it.
I'm sorry Elsa, but I still fail to see how this could be regarded as hatred towards women, nor would I pick Elizabeth from Bioshock as a prime example. I DO agree that the media IS responsible for selling an unrealistic image of how women should look, but I would put games towards the bottom of the list when you compare it to TV, movies, advertisements, and mainly the music industry.
Advertisements (especially) and how Hollywood portrays women are what we should be going after, because it's these images of real female figures that our daughters are more likely to look up to and want to become.
I guess I put games alongside with comics where the men are always beefed up and the women are always voluptuous. I also find it a far stretch to pick out a few female game characters and shout hatred towards women when there are mothers who spend thousands of dollars to get their daughters into beauty pageants.
Advertisements (especially) and how Hollywood portrays women are what we should be going after, because it's these images of real female figures that our daughters are more likely to look up to and want to become.
I guess I put games alongside with comics where the men are always beefed up and the women are always voluptuous. I also find it a far stretch to pick out a few female game characters and shout hatred towards women when there are mothers who spend thousands of dollars to get their daughters into beauty pageants.
Here's the problem with this argument: where's personal accountability? why aren't young women nowadays being held accountable for their own decisions? even if you argue about them being too young (let's say 15 or younger) then the question only to changes to why aren't the parents doing their job of proper guidance and, well, parenting?
As for this bit: "The image of Elizabeth in many ways sums up the issue. Throughout history women have abused their bodies to achieve a cultural image of beauty."
This is irrelevant, women WERE forced into that before but that also died when the sexual revolution happened and women got the option to make every choice men do, which only brings me back to my previous argument: Women are CHOOSING to do these things to themselves, they could work on their personalities, their skills, their charm, their femininity and be better versions of themselves, but in the end they choose to take the easy way out and pick the "huge tits" in one weekend route. And for what may i ask? "for men!" you say, and i'll answer with another question ¿but what KIND of men? those that prefer an airhead with huge tits and ass. I rest my case, women get the men they deserve.
As for this bit: "The image of Elizabeth in many ways sums up the issue. Throughout history women have abused their bodies to achieve a cultural image of beauty."
This is irrelevant, women WERE forced into that before but that also died when the sexual revolution happened and women got the option to make every choice men do, which only brings me back to my previous argument: Women are CHOOSING to do these things to themselves, they could work on their personalities, their skills, their charm, their femininity and be better versions of themselves, but in the end they choose to take the easy way out and pick the "huge tits" in one weekend route. And for what may i ask? "for men!" you say, and i'll answer with another question ¿but what KIND of men? those that prefer an airhead with huge tits and ass. I rest my case, women get the men they deserve.
@jaded... The created character in Bioshock is wearing a corset... one of the most submissive garments a woman can wear. It restricts movement, breathing. It compresses various organs and can cause infertility, broken/deformed ribs and other health issues. While it may not be strictly a mysogynistic portrayal, this is certainly not a character created by someone who loves women.
@EdgyDude... I fully agree that most women are no longer forced to adhere to cultural imagery of beauty (at least western women that have some freedom of choice), but my main point is that our media does have an influence on our WANT to achieve culturally accepted beauty.
Very simply, why didn't Elizabeth have a more normal human female figure? This should have been very easy to do. The developers could still have created a unique and stunning fantasy character without invoking unrealistic fantasy body imagery. It's a simple thing and I don't see a problem with people speaking out to the developers and saying that they should have gone a different route. Possibly by speaking out, other developers will present more realistic imagery and make a more positive contribution to our overall culture.
@EdgyDude... I fully agree that most women are no longer forced to adhere to cultural imagery of beauty (at least western women that have some freedom of choice), but my main point is that our media does have an influence on our WANT to achieve culturally accepted beauty.
Very simply, why didn't Elizabeth have a more normal human female figure? This should have been very easy to do. The developers could still have created a unique and stunning fantasy character without invoking unrealistic fantasy body imagery. It's a simple thing and I don't see a problem with people speaking out to the developers and saying that they should have gone a different route. Possibly by speaking out, other developers will present more realistic imagery and make a more positive contribution to our overall culture.
The last couple of years has seen printed media, more specifically women magazines address this issue by putting women on the cover without any touch ups or being unrealistically beautiful. The downside of this is that sales were significantly lower than the norm which is unfortunate. Although this may spread to other areas of the media we consume I highly doubt it because beauty=sales with any visual piece.
For one, I don't find any of the things listed in this blog attractive but I might be the weird one here. Beauty is subjective and what one may find attractive another might not and I for one have my tastes grounded firmly in reality. As far as I'm concerned, how can I be attracted to someone I've never met and know nothing about?
As for Elizabeth, although its hard to ignore her lovely lady parts and all that, it's not what I focus on during gameplay. Again I may be the odd one out or because of the sheer volume sexualization of female characters I have been desensitized.
Hopefully what the media considers beautiful changes to something more subtle and realistic in the future. Or having a daughter is going to be a real pain in the ass haha.
Great thought provoking blog
For one, I don't find any of the things listed in this blog attractive but I might be the weird one here. Beauty is subjective and what one may find attractive another might not and I for one have my tastes grounded firmly in reality. As far as I'm concerned, how can I be attracted to someone I've never met and know nothing about?
As for Elizabeth, although its hard to ignore her lovely lady parts and all that, it's not what I focus on during gameplay. Again I may be the odd one out or because of the sheer volume sexualization of female characters I have been desensitized.
Hopefully what the media considers beautiful changes to something more subtle and realistic in the future. Or having a daughter is going to be a real pain in the ass haha.
Great thought provoking blog
I think you may be overestimating the influence anime has in the east, it’s still fairly niche, I guess you could compare it to gaming over here, everybody’s aware of it, lots of people dabble in it, but it’s still just a fraction that make up the “core” audience. I agree with the heart of what you’re saying but I’d say the anime you’re referring to is more a reflection of these misinformed ideas of beauty rather that a cause. Or maybe it’s a vicious circle kind of thing.
I’ve never understood the mentality behind breast enhancements, if someone isn’t interested in you because of the size of your breasts he’s doing you a favour, because wouldn’t you want to avoid that type of person? I think unscrupulous surgeons are a huge problem, there needs to be some sort of psychological screening process, before someone is allowed under the knife. I’ve seen a few absolutely fine looking women get Botox and end up looking like clowns.
As for Elizabeth, yeah, I think they made her breasts a bit too big, and they practically framed them too, but I still chalk it up to the caricature art style overemphasizing that. I’m just thinking this now but the corset may even be a stylistic device, from what I understand she’s been in captivity most of her life and it could be visually reinforcing that, I don’t really expect her to be a modern liberated women after all that, in 1912 no less, it’s strangely appropriate. Or I could just be bullshiting, who knows! Basically I think the jury’s still out on Bioshock Infinite, Ken Lavine’s a smart guy and I don’t think he’s going to fall into those particular pitfalls, but we’ll have to wait and see.
I’ve never understood the mentality behind breast enhancements, if someone isn’t interested in you because of the size of your breasts he’s doing you a favour, because wouldn’t you want to avoid that type of person? I think unscrupulous surgeons are a huge problem, there needs to be some sort of psychological screening process, before someone is allowed under the knife. I’ve seen a few absolutely fine looking women get Botox and end up looking like clowns.
As for Elizabeth, yeah, I think they made her breasts a bit too big, and they practically framed them too, but I still chalk it up to the caricature art style overemphasizing that. I’m just thinking this now but the corset may even be a stylistic device, from what I understand she’s been in captivity most of her life and it could be visually reinforcing that, I don’t really expect her to be a modern liberated women after all that, in 1912 no less, it’s strangely appropriate. Or I could just be bullshiting, who knows! Basically I think the jury’s still out on Bioshock Infinite, Ken Lavine’s a smart guy and I don’t think he’s going to fall into those particular pitfalls, but we’ll have to wait and see.
Why aren't most men in games like Doughnut Drake instead of the CK male model standard? because that's the fantasy that people want and there's nothing wrong with wanting that perse, but when the guidance in society is so poor that produces individual with will weak enough to let it's environment influence him/her to the point of harming himself/herself for a short time gain in looks at the expense of a long term health, that's a problem.
And that's my point, you see society's worship of beauty as the cause, i see it as symptom of a deeper problem.
And that's my point, you see society's worship of beauty as the cause, i see it as symptom of a deeper problem.
I was waiting for an Elsa blog on this topic. Didn't have to wait long!
For the record, I respect the position that the corset is, in and of itself, a symbol of an attitude that a woman is basically a caged bird. It's important to know your history and have a good understanding of this fact.
On the other side, it wasn't an outfit picked out of a bucket, the way a lot of fighting games do. Bioshock Infinite is referencing the look and feel of a specific period in history. The art style is conscious, and while the outfit certainly does capture the eye and emphasize the sexual characteristics that Elizabeth has, it doesn't strike me as coming from the same attitude that produces the "sex doll" looks of fighting game characters like Ivy or any of the DoA girls. It's a visually interesting shape, but quite cartoony and intentionally exaggerated - imho, if we're going to come down on this character design, we might as well come down on Sally in Nightmare Before Christmas for making girls think that anorexia and stitches is a good look, or Betty Boop for being, well, Betty Boop. (She does veer a little bit too close to looking like a Bratz doll, I'm not saying I don't see that, mind you.)
To look at another industry - pretty much every single garment you'll see on a fashion runway is ridiculous, impractical, hampering and impossible to wear. Now, is it the responsibility of each fashion designer to come up with a look that is intelligent, practical, and sensible for anyone to wear? Or is it their responsibility to come up with looks that fire up the eye and the imagination? Maybe it's socially irresponsible for them to go with option 2, I'm not actually trying to claim otherwise. I just want to raise the point that from the artist's perspective, they just want to turn heads - probably everyone's, not just guys.
Also - for better or for worse - the corset look is leveraging a lot of the popularity it has gained right now as the 'look du jour' in certain subcultures such as steampunk culture, burlesque culture, fetish culture and other "scenes" that by and large are not only female-friendly but actually friendly towards all kinds of fringe, queer, and transgendered populations as of right now. They are absolutely borrowing on the fashion sense of a period in history when times were much harder for such people - but I feel they're reappropriating them rather than reinforcing them.
I don't fault you for not liking the look - I just think there are much, much worse offenders out there when it comes to perpetuating poor body images.
(Also don't forget about Alyx Vance from Half Life! Or April Ryan and Zoe from The Longest Journey / Dreamfall. Or Chell in Portal! By and large it's hard to find sensibly-dressed girls in games - I hate that I have to think this hard to come up with them, or that they should be "awesome" just for remembering to bring a jacket, but that's why we need blogs like this I guess...)
For the record, I respect the position that the corset is, in and of itself, a symbol of an attitude that a woman is basically a caged bird. It's important to know your history and have a good understanding of this fact.
On the other side, it wasn't an outfit picked out of a bucket, the way a lot of fighting games do. Bioshock Infinite is referencing the look and feel of a specific period in history. The art style is conscious, and while the outfit certainly does capture the eye and emphasize the sexual characteristics that Elizabeth has, it doesn't strike me as coming from the same attitude that produces the "sex doll" looks of fighting game characters like Ivy or any of the DoA girls. It's a visually interesting shape, but quite cartoony and intentionally exaggerated - imho, if we're going to come down on this character design, we might as well come down on Sally in Nightmare Before Christmas for making girls think that anorexia and stitches is a good look, or Betty Boop for being, well, Betty Boop. (She does veer a little bit too close to looking like a Bratz doll, I'm not saying I don't see that, mind you.)
To look at another industry - pretty much every single garment you'll see on a fashion runway is ridiculous, impractical, hampering and impossible to wear. Now, is it the responsibility of each fashion designer to come up with a look that is intelligent, practical, and sensible for anyone to wear? Or is it their responsibility to come up with looks that fire up the eye and the imagination? Maybe it's socially irresponsible for them to go with option 2, I'm not actually trying to claim otherwise. I just want to raise the point that from the artist's perspective, they just want to turn heads - probably everyone's, not just guys.
Also - for better or for worse - the corset look is leveraging a lot of the popularity it has gained right now as the 'look du jour' in certain subcultures such as steampunk culture, burlesque culture, fetish culture and other "scenes" that by and large are not only female-friendly but actually friendly towards all kinds of fringe, queer, and transgendered populations as of right now. They are absolutely borrowing on the fashion sense of a period in history when times were much harder for such people - but I feel they're reappropriating them rather than reinforcing them.
I don't fault you for not liking the look - I just think there are much, much worse offenders out there when it comes to perpetuating poor body images.
(Also don't forget about Alyx Vance from Half Life! Or April Ryan and Zoe from The Longest Journey / Dreamfall. Or Chell in Portal! By and large it's hard to find sensibly-dressed girls in games - I hate that I have to think this hard to come up with them, or that they should be "awesome" just for remembering to bring a jacket, but that's why we need blogs like this I guess...)
99.999999% of the time, I'd be right there with you, Elsa. As a matter of fact, I pretty much am with you, save for on one point: Elizabeth.
Full disclosure: I'm a straight white dude, so I fully admit that I may be speaking from a position of male privilege here. I'm also looking forward to Bioshock Infinite, and I'm proud to call myself a starry-eyed fan of Irrational Games. I don't think that means I'm unqualified to comment on this issue, but you're welcome to judge for yourself.
Now, to be clear, I agree with most of what you said about Elizabeth. I agree that she does look like a sort of doe-eyed male fantasy, I agree that they could have made her waist more realistically proportioned, I agree that her breasts could be smaller - I agree with all of that! I would argue, respectfully, that her look is consistent with the art style of the Bioshock games - there are no characters in either of the previous games who look human, or even close to it; they all look cartoony. However, I won't press that point too hard, as it does reek a bit of the usual hideous "SUPERMAN/KRATOS IS SHIRTLESS, ERGO THERE IS NO SEXISM" garbage that male nerds inevitably trot out in order to derail discussions in internet discourse on this subject.
No, my real issue is that you said it "must be hatred of women" to design Elizabeth like that. Because that's simply not true, for a couple of reasons. Firstly, objectification/fetishization of fictional women is not the same as hatred of real ones. They both spring from the same toxic root, to be sure, and it's entirely possible for someone who draws/animates/etc. fictional women as simple fantasy objects to hate real women as well. However, there's a key difference: Hatred of real women is malicious and deliberate, whereas it's entirely possible for an artist who renders fictional women as sex objects to simply be ignorant of the implications of his decision.
That's the insidious thing about male privilege; it's easy for dudes like me to believe it doesn't exist, because it necessarily does not affect us. Art, and art by men in particular, is often created in a vacuum, and that's at least partially out of necessity; allowing your political beliefs to influence your choices as an artist and/or a storyteller can result in watered-down work, or even the complete abandonment of a project that could have been something pretty great, because you're essentially forcing your imagination not to go to any uncomfortable places.
Granted, political beliefs can also enhance a work, but speaking as an amateur writer myself, the choices I make should always be the best ones for the story I'm trying to tell. The moment I put the pacification of fan outcry ahead of telling the best story I can tell, I'm screwed. But, if I kill off a female character, I'm fully cognizant of how that might be received by some readers; I wasn't always. I'd imagine a lot of creative dudes, particularly those working in "nerdy" fields like gaming, are still completely ignorant of the implications they're conveying every time they draw/render/etc. a girl with huge breasts and a tiny waist. I'm not excusing that, obviously, but it's not necessarily done out of hatred.
The other problem I have with your characterization is much harder to argue believably, because it's impossible to know if I'm right until the game comes out. So, if I do end up being wrong on this, you have my express permission to disregard my point. However, I think this point still merits consideration, so I'll just come right out and say it: using Elizabeth as your example is relevant, but it's also not the best example you could have picked, because this is Irrational we're talking about. They do not, as a rule, do things by accident, nor solely for cheap titillation. I would argue that Elizabeth looks that way entirely deliberately, and that it's very likely that they're planning to do something subversive with Elizabeth. I don't know what, exactly; a heel turn at the halfway point seems too simple, and they've done it twice in their "Shock" games. So I dunno. And, as I said, I'm a fan of Irrational's work, so I could be putting too much faith in them. We'll see.
Oh, and I do have a bit of an issue with your characterization of females in anime and manga as "a pedophile's fantasy", as it's a sweeping generalization. On the other hand, it's probably a more accurate characterization than I'd like to admit. ;)
Anyway, post upvoted. Thanks for giving Dtoiders something to think about, Elsa! :D
Full disclosure: I'm a straight white dude, so I fully admit that I may be speaking from a position of male privilege here. I'm also looking forward to Bioshock Infinite, and I'm proud to call myself a starry-eyed fan of Irrational Games. I don't think that means I'm unqualified to comment on this issue, but you're welcome to judge for yourself.
Now, to be clear, I agree with most of what you said about Elizabeth. I agree that she does look like a sort of doe-eyed male fantasy, I agree that they could have made her waist more realistically proportioned, I agree that her breasts could be smaller - I agree with all of that! I would argue, respectfully, that her look is consistent with the art style of the Bioshock games - there are no characters in either of the previous games who look human, or even close to it; they all look cartoony. However, I won't press that point too hard, as it does reek a bit of the usual hideous "SUPERMAN/KRATOS IS SHIRTLESS, ERGO THERE IS NO SEXISM" garbage that male nerds inevitably trot out in order to derail discussions in internet discourse on this subject.
No, my real issue is that you said it "must be hatred of women" to design Elizabeth like that. Because that's simply not true, for a couple of reasons. Firstly, objectification/fetishization of fictional women is not the same as hatred of real ones. They both spring from the same toxic root, to be sure, and it's entirely possible for someone who draws/animates/etc. fictional women as simple fantasy objects to hate real women as well. However, there's a key difference: Hatred of real women is malicious and deliberate, whereas it's entirely possible for an artist who renders fictional women as sex objects to simply be ignorant of the implications of his decision.
That's the insidious thing about male privilege; it's easy for dudes like me to believe it doesn't exist, because it necessarily does not affect us. Art, and art by men in particular, is often created in a vacuum, and that's at least partially out of necessity; allowing your political beliefs to influence your choices as an artist and/or a storyteller can result in watered-down work, or even the complete abandonment of a project that could have been something pretty great, because you're essentially forcing your imagination not to go to any uncomfortable places.
Granted, political beliefs can also enhance a work, but speaking as an amateur writer myself, the choices I make should always be the best ones for the story I'm trying to tell. The moment I put the pacification of fan outcry ahead of telling the best story I can tell, I'm screwed. But, if I kill off a female character, I'm fully cognizant of how that might be received by some readers; I wasn't always. I'd imagine a lot of creative dudes, particularly those working in "nerdy" fields like gaming, are still completely ignorant of the implications they're conveying every time they draw/render/etc. a girl with huge breasts and a tiny waist. I'm not excusing that, obviously, but it's not necessarily done out of hatred.
The other problem I have with your characterization is much harder to argue believably, because it's impossible to know if I'm right until the game comes out. So, if I do end up being wrong on this, you have my express permission to disregard my point. However, I think this point still merits consideration, so I'll just come right out and say it: using Elizabeth as your example is relevant, but it's also not the best example you could have picked, because this is Irrational we're talking about. They do not, as a rule, do things by accident, nor solely for cheap titillation. I would argue that Elizabeth looks that way entirely deliberately, and that it's very likely that they're planning to do something subversive with Elizabeth. I don't know what, exactly; a heel turn at the halfway point seems too simple, and they've done it twice in their "Shock" games. So I dunno. And, as I said, I'm a fan of Irrational's work, so I could be putting too much faith in them. We'll see.
Oh, and I do have a bit of an issue with your characterization of females in anime and manga as "a pedophile's fantasy", as it's a sweeping generalization. On the other hand, it's probably a more accurate characterization than I'd like to admit. ;)
Anyway, post upvoted. Thanks for giving Dtoiders something to think about, Elsa! :D
But you're going with the theory that corsets were forced upon women, when that line of thinking is highly debatable. In fact the clergy frowned upon the wearing of corsets, believing it encouraged wanton behavior, and doctors linked it to breast cancer. And not all women were what they referred to as "tight-lacers" as so often portrayed when you think of Victorian imagery. In fact corsets were sold in a variety of sizes, and it was more likely the mother figure of the household who encouraged her daughters to wear the corsets to fit in with the latest fashion trend.
I'm not trying to argue that a corset isn't a terrible thing, just my belief that the game designers were simply going with a period style, rather than having a hate for women. lol And I absolutely agree with you that the media's portrayal of women is harmful, but more so when it involves real female figures.
Going after a female game character does little when young girls idolize movie stars and models. And the fashion industry isn't going to change because beauty sells.
I'm not trying to argue that a corset isn't a terrible thing, just my belief that the game designers were simply going with a period style, rather than having a hate for women. lol And I absolutely agree with you that the media's portrayal of women is harmful, but more so when it involves real female figures.
Going after a female game character does little when young girls idolize movie stars and models. And the fashion industry isn't going to change because beauty sells.
@Elsa
Cate Archer was the main character of the NOLF series. She's the only gal you get to control. Couldn't be happier for it, either.
You do make great points. Still, personal choice is a bitch to counter-argue. If someone really wants to change that much, they're going to.
Cate Archer was the main character of the NOLF series. She's the only gal you get to control. Couldn't be happier for it, either.
You do make great points. Still, personal choice is a bitch to counter-argue. If someone really wants to change that much, they're going to.
In retrospect, I think I didn't pay enough attention to the main thrust of your article either, which is that devs should make it a point more often to design characters that are uplifting and inspiring, rather than just eye candy - and I agree with that, with the caveat that sometimes one person's inspiration is another person's terrible stereotype.
Ffordesoon also raises a point that I forgot to mention. The cartoonish, exaggerated shapes of the characters in Bioshock 1 and 2 were in large part a commentary on exactly what you're talking about - people splicing and modifying themselves into these distorted parodies because of all the "self-improvement" rhetoric about human perfection surrounding and influencing them. It was a consciously used part of the narrative, so I have some faith that the creators have a certain amount of awareness about these issues, and that Elizabeth will prove to be more than just eye candy. Of course, I could well discover that I'm wrong, but I'm still kind of optimistic.
Okay, shutting up now!
Ffordesoon also raises a point that I forgot to mention. The cartoonish, exaggerated shapes of the characters in Bioshock 1 and 2 were in large part a commentary on exactly what you're talking about - people splicing and modifying themselves into these distorted parodies because of all the "self-improvement" rhetoric about human perfection surrounding and influencing them. It was a consciously used part of the narrative, so I have some faith that the creators have a certain amount of awareness about these issues, and that Elizabeth will prove to be more than just eye candy. Of course, I could well discover that I'm wrong, but I'm still kind of optimistic.
Okay, shutting up now!
Very good article. You articulated your point without devolving into a finger pointing rant, which is the reason I usually roll my eyes at these sorts of opinions. That is also what makes you the best blogger on this site.
To answer your rhetorical question, as a father of a baby daughter, this is not something I want my little girl to have to deal with. And to me, most video game women are pretty grotesque and awful creatures. If you want to talk about female beauty, look no further than pin up models from the fifties. Back when curves meant curves EVERYWHERE, and not just around the bust area. That is what a real woman looks like; someone with a bit of meat on their bones, and an image that is perfectly, comfortable attainable by most humans without the need for disgusting, invasive surgery.
I don't care much about the "artistic" merit of games or other gobbledygook, but in an industry that is likely experiencing a massive influx of female consumers due simply to how broad it has become, it should be much more of a concern for developers to keep these things in mind. I don't mind the odd game portraying the machismo, the uber male fantasy of a perfect woman with massive knockers, but it is not the odd game, it's nearly every damn game. That is when it becomes a serious problem, that is when it becomes a very unhealthy trend. And that has definitely happened already.
As far as there being leeway for men in games, this is true, and that makes the issue a real double standard. Considering how many overweight people there are in real life, you don't see too many running around in a video game environment unless they are there as comedic fodder.
To answer your rhetorical question, as a father of a baby daughter, this is not something I want my little girl to have to deal with. And to me, most video game women are pretty grotesque and awful creatures. If you want to talk about female beauty, look no further than pin up models from the fifties. Back when curves meant curves EVERYWHERE, and not just around the bust area. That is what a real woman looks like; someone with a bit of meat on their bones, and an image that is perfectly, comfortable attainable by most humans without the need for disgusting, invasive surgery.
I don't care much about the "artistic" merit of games or other gobbledygook, but in an industry that is likely experiencing a massive influx of female consumers due simply to how broad it has become, it should be much more of a concern for developers to keep these things in mind. I don't mind the odd game portraying the machismo, the uber male fantasy of a perfect woman with massive knockers, but it is not the odd game, it's nearly every damn game. That is when it becomes a serious problem, that is when it becomes a very unhealthy trend. And that has definitely happened already.
As far as there being leeway for men in games, this is true, and that makes the issue a real double standard. Considering how many overweight people there are in real life, you don't see too many running around in a video game environment unless they are there as comedic fodder.
I've got one: Disney Princesses.
Disney Princesses have long had Barbie-like bodies with impossibly narrow waists. The worst cases I can think of are Aurora from Sleeping Beauty and Jasmine from Aladdin, whose waists are about the same width as their necks. These movies are directly targeting young girls, presenting these princesses as role models. And in addition to their outer appearances, the princesses are typically still teenagers, typically younger than 18. Ariel, for example, was 16, yet she immediately sought a mate she only knew for a short while and they got married right away. This unreasonable fairy-tale love scenario doesn't seem like the most healthy of examples.
Disney Princesses have long had Barbie-like bodies with impossibly narrow waists. The worst cases I can think of are Aurora from Sleeping Beauty and Jasmine from Aladdin, whose waists are about the same width as their necks. These movies are directly targeting young girls, presenting these princesses as role models. And in addition to their outer appearances, the princesses are typically still teenagers, typically younger than 18. Ariel, for example, was 16, yet she immediately sought a mate she only knew for a short while and they got married right away. This unreasonable fairy-tale love scenario doesn't seem like the most healthy of examples.
Real talk: No one forces you to get plastic surgery. Why is the notion that fps/gta games make you an omnicidal maniac considered "ridiculous", yet people getting lipo to look like Chun-Li are considered the responsibility of the works' creators? Contrary to popular belief, people are actually autonomous and sentient. Shocking, I know, that we can't slam the media for stupid people's behavior.
I'm not going to go into anything too deep, because everyone else seems to have that covered, but I will discuss a few points.
First I want to talk about statistics that source you used claimed that 90% of Korean Women considered Plastic Surgery. Making a large claim about an entire ethnicity like this is a red flag that the study is not dependable. They did not talk about their margin of error, they didn't present the data they used. They're a News website they probably did not know had to do an accurate study. Online polls like this that are done through News/entertainment sites are not to be trusted. They claimed that "1.7 percent of Women they did not wish to undergo plastic surgery." Yet they only polled 50 Women, that's a very small sample size for such a large claim. What question did they ask them? How did they determine these were actually Women? How did they average this data (mean, median or mode)" Since these are all visitors of a website the source is bias, and not representative of an entire ethnicity of women.
However at the end they did bring up a Gallup Poll which is more dependable, but since this news source already distorted their own poll I do not trust their interpretation of the data. The thing about statistics even if they prove one thing, people can still twist it around to mean the opposite if they did not interpret it right. Also not all plastic surgery is bad. My Father had plastic surgery done on his nose because he was having breathing issues. It had nothing to do with vanity.
That being said I agree with your argument that the media has a significant role to play in the insecurity of Women. The reason I brought up the statics thing is because I felt those statistics were very badly conceived, and actually hurt your argument. It's very difficult to get the point across to someone that something they deal with everyday, is harmful when they think that they're simply ignoring it.
Also although I don't want to dismiss Anime & Video Games as being harmful to the image of Woman I do not think they hold as much power. Firstly Anime is cartoons, it's common for these characters head's to get larger and their eyes to disappear etc. From my understanding Anime is somewhat shunned across Japan, the Woman that do seek to pretty themselves up as anime characters are generally just pandering an audience. The eye-widening surgery you were talking about, has very little to do with anime, and more to do with a desire to look more Anglo-Saxon/Caucasian. I've done quite a bit of reading on this topic, and what I learned is that it's happening because the most common perception of Beauty is an Anglo-Saxon White American. I forgot the name, but I saw a very good documentary about that topic.
I consider Videogames as more of an Effect of the hyper-sexualized portrayal of women than a Cause. All of this stuff was happening a long time before videogames ever existed. The reason it happens is because insecurity sells. Companies make billions by selling beauty products, magazine, clothes, surgeries etc. Videogames don't really have anything to gain from making women feel insecure. I think the reason Videogames portray women like they do is because the creators were used to the way women were portrayed in other mediums so they naturally brought it over.
Also on the topic of their not being many female leads in videogames, that has to do with a majority of the creators being male. Many men have difficulty writing parts for a female lead so they stick with their own gender. Now that we're getting more Women making games we're seeing more female leads.
First I want to talk about statistics that source you used claimed that 90% of Korean Women considered Plastic Surgery. Making a large claim about an entire ethnicity like this is a red flag that the study is not dependable. They did not talk about their margin of error, they didn't present the data they used. They're a News website they probably did not know had to do an accurate study. Online polls like this that are done through News/entertainment sites are not to be trusted. They claimed that "1.7 percent of Women they did not wish to undergo plastic surgery." Yet they only polled 50 Women, that's a very small sample size for such a large claim. What question did they ask them? How did they determine these were actually Women? How did they average this data (mean, median or mode)" Since these are all visitors of a website the source is bias, and not representative of an entire ethnicity of women.
However at the end they did bring up a Gallup Poll which is more dependable, but since this news source already distorted their own poll I do not trust their interpretation of the data. The thing about statistics even if they prove one thing, people can still twist it around to mean the opposite if they did not interpret it right. Also not all plastic surgery is bad. My Father had plastic surgery done on his nose because he was having breathing issues. It had nothing to do with vanity.
That being said I agree with your argument that the media has a significant role to play in the insecurity of Women. The reason I brought up the statics thing is because I felt those statistics were very badly conceived, and actually hurt your argument. It's very difficult to get the point across to someone that something they deal with everyday, is harmful when they think that they're simply ignoring it.
Also although I don't want to dismiss Anime & Video Games as being harmful to the image of Woman I do not think they hold as much power. Firstly Anime is cartoons, it's common for these characters head's to get larger and their eyes to disappear etc. From my understanding Anime is somewhat shunned across Japan, the Woman that do seek to pretty themselves up as anime characters are generally just pandering an audience. The eye-widening surgery you were talking about, has very little to do with anime, and more to do with a desire to look more Anglo-Saxon/Caucasian. I've done quite a bit of reading on this topic, and what I learned is that it's happening because the most common perception of Beauty is an Anglo-Saxon White American. I forgot the name, but I saw a very good documentary about that topic.
I consider Videogames as more of an Effect of the hyper-sexualized portrayal of women than a Cause. All of this stuff was happening a long time before videogames ever existed. The reason it happens is because insecurity sells. Companies make billions by selling beauty products, magazine, clothes, surgeries etc. Videogames don't really have anything to gain from making women feel insecure. I think the reason Videogames portray women like they do is because the creators were used to the way women were portrayed in other mediums so they naturally brought it over.
Also on the topic of their not being many female leads in videogames, that has to do with a majority of the creators being male. Many men have difficulty writing parts for a female lead so they stick with their own gender. Now that we're getting more Women making games we're seeing more female leads.
@tony Yeah thats pretty insane really , I remember watching beauty and the beast recently and thinking , wait, who would relate to such a barbie doll perfect character as Belle ?(or whatever her name is)
Tony made an excellent point about Disney Princess's. Cartoons should not be immediately dismissed. Even though I somewhat dismissed animation in my previous comment, it should not be ignored when being presented to children. I've met a handful of woman in high-school who said they looked up to Disney Princesses in beauty. In fact I still hear it today. Whenever I hear a Woman say she wants to be treated like a princess, and is not joking I cringe. Not to say these movies are innately bad for kids, I don't think it was intentional when they made these. I think they just wanted to craft a simple story, and decided to make the main characters pretty just cause it's easier to communicate that the pretty girl is good and the ugly witch is bad, but some kids may take this in the wrong way.
Bravo, Elsa! Fantastic blog! (Or should that be "brava"?)
As you know, I have a hell of a lot to say on the matter. The argument that people/women aren't being forced into these beauty standards, for instance, in spite of the overwhelming societal forces that are in play - it's easy to dismiss the issue to personal responsibility or the fault of the parents but that ignores the fact that people don't exist in bubbles.
It's great to see you pointing out the misogyny within the depiction of Elisabeth, too, and rightly so - were her figure and the employment of a corset to be represented negatively, detractors might have a point. However, the fact that Elisabeth seems not at all disturbed by her fashionable cage and the fact that her presence is designed to titillate in lieu of the corset ought to speak about what the devs think of corsets.
That's not even going into the obvious domination fantasy going on in the demonstration video - "Promise you'll kill me if I am recaptured!" he yelps as she wraps his enormous strong hands around her tiny fragile neck, as if this represents strength of will or is at all a convincing display of character.
At any rate, I want to share this article below with you. It's about a mother trying to convince her young daughter that she should be accepting of her real body type against the pressures of her friends' and society's insistence to shame her. It's quite funny, too:
http://www.rachelsimmons.com/2012/01/mom-im-fat-one-mothers-inspired-response-to-her-7-year-old/
As you know, I have a hell of a lot to say on the matter. The argument that people/women aren't being forced into these beauty standards, for instance, in spite of the overwhelming societal forces that are in play - it's easy to dismiss the issue to personal responsibility or the fault of the parents but that ignores the fact that people don't exist in bubbles.
It's great to see you pointing out the misogyny within the depiction of Elisabeth, too, and rightly so - were her figure and the employment of a corset to be represented negatively, detractors might have a point. However, the fact that Elisabeth seems not at all disturbed by her fashionable cage and the fact that her presence is designed to titillate in lieu of the corset ought to speak about what the devs think of corsets.
That's not even going into the obvious domination fantasy going on in the demonstration video - "Promise you'll kill me if I am recaptured!" he yelps as she wraps his enormous strong hands around her tiny fragile neck, as if this represents strength of will or is at all a convincing display of character.
At any rate, I want to share this article below with you. It's about a mother trying to convince her young daughter that she should be accepting of her real body type against the pressures of her friends' and society's insistence to shame her. It's quite funny, too:
http://www.rachelsimmons.com/2012/01/mom-im-fat-one-mothers-inspired-response-to-her-7-year-old/
Interesting read Elsa, (and lots of comments), but I largely disagree with (what seems to me to be) the key points of your argument.
"I believe that game developers have a societal responsibility to portray our video game heroes and heroines in a way that is more realistic and attainable for average people."
Absolutely not. If that's what you believe, you're entitled to it, but game developers are free to make whatever kinds of games they want and they don't have a responsibility to do anything. Games can be art or stupid, mindless fun. They may accurately represent a time period, or they may go the fantasy route. They may promote a socially responsible message or contain some kind of social commentary, or they may be pure entertainment. Game developers may wish to tackle important social issues and that's great and all, but they are under no responsibility to do so.
My other disagreement is something you didn't say, the same problem I see in most protests against women being objectified. What about choice? Accountability? We can't have it both ways. You make it sound like women are forced to risk their lives just to please men, but where's their responsibility in that? Who's forcing them to get plastic surgery? Who forces super millionaires pop singers like Jennifer Lopez and Britney Spears to sell sex first and music second? The list goes on and on and on. Sure the media plays a role in it, but it's a chicken or egg question. Does the media create beauty standards or does it simply shows the public what it wants to see? Besides, despite whatever influence the media may have, "the TV made me do it" is hardly an excuse, unless we are prepared to recognize that we are completely powerless and brainwashed before the media onslaught, in which case we would have to rethink the entire foundation of western society, not least because freedom has no place in a society of brainwashed people.
"I believe that game developers have a societal responsibility to portray our video game heroes and heroines in a way that is more realistic and attainable for average people."
Absolutely not. If that's what you believe, you're entitled to it, but game developers are free to make whatever kinds of games they want and they don't have a responsibility to do anything. Games can be art or stupid, mindless fun. They may accurately represent a time period, or they may go the fantasy route. They may promote a socially responsible message or contain some kind of social commentary, or they may be pure entertainment. Game developers may wish to tackle important social issues and that's great and all, but they are under no responsibility to do so.
My other disagreement is something you didn't say, the same problem I see in most protests against women being objectified. What about choice? Accountability? We can't have it both ways. You make it sound like women are forced to risk their lives just to please men, but where's their responsibility in that? Who's forcing them to get plastic surgery? Who forces super millionaires pop singers like Jennifer Lopez and Britney Spears to sell sex first and music second? The list goes on and on and on. Sure the media plays a role in it, but it's a chicken or egg question. Does the media create beauty standards or does it simply shows the public what it wants to see? Besides, despite whatever influence the media may have, "the TV made me do it" is hardly an excuse, unless we are prepared to recognize that we are completely powerless and brainwashed before the media onslaught, in which case we would have to rethink the entire foundation of western society, not least because freedom has no place in a society of brainwashed people.
I'm glad you wrote this. I couldn't, being male, write this in a compelling way, nor do I have the opportunity to relate to the issues personally enough to be taken seriously by others.
Producers of media often don't want to take responsibility in this way. May not have a good reconnoiter of the issue, as well, "geeks" are often bitter, and of course the odd influence the "bros" (read, douchebags) has on popular culture at the moment. Unfortunately game developers often fall into the former category, and are literally hateful, though I think sometimes they don't know it, or want to acknowledge it.
Zoey, in the original Left 4 dead is a playable female with a heathy normal body. Alyx Vance too, though not playable. I keep hoping for co-op in whatever iteration of Half-Life comes along next...
Producers of media often don't want to take responsibility in this way. May not have a good reconnoiter of the issue, as well, "geeks" are often bitter, and of course the odd influence the "bros" (read, douchebags) has on popular culture at the moment. Unfortunately game developers often fall into the former category, and are literally hateful, though I think sometimes they don't know it, or want to acknowledge it.
Zoey, in the original Left 4 dead is a playable female with a heathy normal body. Alyx Vance too, though not playable. I keep hoping for co-op in whatever iteration of Half-Life comes along next...
I'm reading some of the comments, and in defense of the developers, they may not know what a corset is like, and for them it is impersonal. They don't associate themselves with the woman in the corset, because they're probably men and wouldn't have to worry about wearing a corset. Because of that, they don't lend it the weight is should have. It's kind of a "It doesn't bother me because it won't happen to me." attitude. People's ability to relate to some other people can be very, very poor.
Some excellent arguments and comments!
I guess I think that developers are like that one pirate. They think they're just one person making a decision and it can't possibly have an impact. Unfortunately those decisions add up and can have a cultural influence.
Anime style is fairly well known to gamers and is becoming more popularized... Gwen Stefani even recently introduced the Harajuku Mini children's line of anime-influenced clothing for Target - that seems a fairly strong signal of it's influence and acceptance in our western culture.
Our media DOES influence culture... and my only argument is whether it's possible for those who create our media to help change our culture in a more healthy manner. Is it not possible to create characters with slightly more realistic female figures instead of exaggerations like a tiny unrealistic waist that can only be achieved by unhealthy means, or breast sizes that can usually only be achieved through surgery. Fashion isn't forced on women, but our media does influence fashion and perception and it just seems that those that create our media could make small changes to more positively influence our cultural imagery.
I guess I think that developers are like that one pirate. They think they're just one person making a decision and it can't possibly have an impact. Unfortunately those decisions add up and can have a cultural influence.
Anime style is fairly well known to gamers and is becoming more popularized... Gwen Stefani even recently introduced the Harajuku Mini children's line of anime-influenced clothing for Target - that seems a fairly strong signal of it's influence and acceptance in our western culture.
Our media DOES influence culture... and my only argument is whether it's possible for those who create our media to help change our culture in a more healthy manner. Is it not possible to create characters with slightly more realistic female figures instead of exaggerations like a tiny unrealistic waist that can only be achieved by unhealthy means, or breast sizes that can usually only be achieved through surgery. Fashion isn't forced on women, but our media does influence fashion and perception and it just seems that those that create our media could make small changes to more positively influence our cultural imagery.
Thinking.
I think more artists need to think, "Do I really need to show something in this way?". Moreover, in many cases they might say, "Yes, to make my point, to show my conception, to make my art I need to use some level of "charactiture.” For comic artist that might be very often since the entire premise of comics is the art of creating charactiture the implies a great deal of unspoken language by use of specific imagery. For painters, sculptors, photographers that might be less so depending on what sort of artistic style they use. In addition, for film, plays, dance they might be even less so again. Yet in the end all art is at its core NOT REEALITY, it is reality with some implied message and significance. A rainbow is just a rainbow, that is until you draw it, film it, sing it, or describe it - then it is art and not merely prism refraction in the air.
I think the only thing you can do with art is discuss, "Was that part of the art needed or not?" And that should be an open discussion that might not have a definitive answer. If I were to be asked specially if "Elizabeth" in Bioshock Infinite needed to look like that I would say, "Maybe, not." But then I would in the end say, "If what I THINK is her purpose is really here purpose then the boobs stay, the corset stays, the doe eyes stay, the diminutive size in comparison to the protagonist and antagonist stays." And what I would say is cut is the wasp waist. Because if I think what is going on is really going on in the game then they entire purpose is to push the gamers buttons in a certain way that would not be solved if Elizabeth looked like "Elena Fisher" from Uncharted.
Irrational Games is everything but 'that moniker' of irrationality in the case of the character design of Elizabeth. She is made to push the gamers’ buttons, and I do not even say male gamers’ buttons. Elizabeth looks the way she does because in the story and in the game because Irrational Games needs the player to view, think about, and feel about Elizabeth in a certain way. Naughty Dog does not care if 50% of gamers think Drake, Elena, Sully, or anyone else is sexy. They just tried to make Drake seem driven & heroic, Sully crafty & eager, and Elena honest & driven...and none of them ugly. Elizabeth on the other hand (as far as I know or think) is supposed to evoke strong feelings of a need to like, protect, and fight for her. My assumption is that needs to be very string for the games narrative to work...because (spoiler) she is gonna be the "choice" at the end. She is going to make the player choose to help her or kill her. For that late introduction of choice to matter she needs to work within the "monster girl" trope. She needs to be cute, the chaste male her needs have a credible reason to on the one hand want to protect her while also having a creditable reason to desire her. She needs to be a cute temptation - big eyes, big boobs, small stature with curves. The protagonist is male so the 'honey pot trap' is the typical princess/monster trope.
Now could Irrational Games make a ‘honey pot’ trap where the girl looks like a typical ‘sheltered 17-21 year old’? Yes, but they would have to spend most of the game getting many people to care about her at all . It may sound sexist or terrible but that is how stories work. If you character is described as a 'pretty princess' most of your audiences is on board with “sacrificing” the hero to save her. If you go the opposite direction nobody thinks saving the homely shrew seems like a good idea for the hero. And if you just have an average woman, well you get an average response. For Bioshock Infinite to work the WHOLE audiences has to be on the “save the princess” freight train from the start…and you make it a freight train with big eyes, big boobs, diminutive size and kicking curves in physical appearance.
I think more artists need to think, "Do I really need to show something in this way?". Moreover, in many cases they might say, "Yes, to make my point, to show my conception, to make my art I need to use some level of "charactiture.” For comic artist that might be very often since the entire premise of comics is the art of creating charactiture the implies a great deal of unspoken language by use of specific imagery. For painters, sculptors, photographers that might be less so depending on what sort of artistic style they use. In addition, for film, plays, dance they might be even less so again. Yet in the end all art is at its core NOT REEALITY, it is reality with some implied message and significance. A rainbow is just a rainbow, that is until you draw it, film it, sing it, or describe it - then it is art and not merely prism refraction in the air.
I think the only thing you can do with art is discuss, "Was that part of the art needed or not?" And that should be an open discussion that might not have a definitive answer. If I were to be asked specially if "Elizabeth" in Bioshock Infinite needed to look like that I would say, "Maybe, not." But then I would in the end say, "If what I THINK is her purpose is really here purpose then the boobs stay, the corset stays, the doe eyes stay, the diminutive size in comparison to the protagonist and antagonist stays." And what I would say is cut is the wasp waist. Because if I think what is going on is really going on in the game then they entire purpose is to push the gamers buttons in a certain way that would not be solved if Elizabeth looked like "Elena Fisher" from Uncharted.
Irrational Games is everything but 'that moniker' of irrationality in the case of the character design of Elizabeth. She is made to push the gamers’ buttons, and I do not even say male gamers’ buttons. Elizabeth looks the way she does because in the story and in the game because Irrational Games needs the player to view, think about, and feel about Elizabeth in a certain way. Naughty Dog does not care if 50% of gamers think Drake, Elena, Sully, or anyone else is sexy. They just tried to make Drake seem driven & heroic, Sully crafty & eager, and Elena honest & driven...and none of them ugly. Elizabeth on the other hand (as far as I know or think) is supposed to evoke strong feelings of a need to like, protect, and fight for her. My assumption is that needs to be very string for the games narrative to work...because (spoiler) she is gonna be the "choice" at the end. She is going to make the player choose to help her or kill her. For that late introduction of choice to matter she needs to work within the "monster girl" trope. She needs to be cute, the chaste male her needs have a credible reason to on the one hand want to protect her while also having a creditable reason to desire her. She needs to be a cute temptation - big eyes, big boobs, small stature with curves. The protagonist is male so the 'honey pot trap' is the typical princess/monster trope.
Now could Irrational Games make a ‘honey pot’ trap where the girl looks like a typical ‘sheltered 17-21 year old’? Yes, but they would have to spend most of the game getting many people to care about her at all . It may sound sexist or terrible but that is how stories work. If you character is described as a 'pretty princess' most of your audiences is on board with “sacrificing” the hero to save her. If you go the opposite direction nobody thinks saving the homely shrew seems like a good idea for the hero. And if you just have an average woman, well you get an average response. For Bioshock Infinite to work the WHOLE audiences has to be on the “save the princess” freight train from the start…and you make it a freight train with big eyes, big boobs, diminutive size and kicking curves in physical appearance.
I always thought Elizabeth's design from Bioshock Infinite was stylized and not really intended to be realistic from what I saw of the early art for the game. I thought she was a bit cartoon-y when I saw how her eyes were larger and disproportionate to the rest of her face.
But looking art assets now it looks like they toned that down but kept the rest of the proportions of her body. I still find the concept of corsets to be disturbing and that picture will haunt me for the rest of today.
Agree with all points. Even with the "cartoon drawings by pedophiles" which slightly offended me but that statement does hold some truth in it but not all anime is made by or for pedophiles. Anime is a another medium in Japan that has something for everyone (of all ages and genders) and its always that weird and sick stuff that gets a lot of the attention.
I don't deny that the media we consume influences, video games and anime are very visual mediums that are run by businesses that want to make money and they try to make the most appealing design for them to sell more. It just really sucks that it has really negative effects on the self-image and self-esteem in people and other businesses take advantage of that. Vicious cycle.
But looking art assets now it looks like they toned that down but kept the rest of the proportions of her body. I still find the concept of corsets to be disturbing and that picture will haunt me for the rest of today.
Agree with all points. Even with the "cartoon drawings by pedophiles" which slightly offended me but that statement does hold some truth in it but not all anime is made by or for pedophiles. Anime is a another medium in Japan that has something for everyone (of all ages and genders) and its always that weird and sick stuff that gets a lot of the attention.
I don't deny that the media we consume influences, video games and anime are very visual mediums that are run by businesses that want to make money and they try to make the most appealing design for them to sell more. It just really sucks that it has really negative effects on the self-image and self-esteem in people and other businesses take advantage of that. Vicious cycle.
I've stumbled upon an article in Discover Magazine explaining the ins and outs of males seeking pornography on the Internet. It appeared that no matter what kind of material men were looking for, it was of a highly stimulating nature.
Whilst online, the female anatomy "inflated" tenfold, (breasts, bosoms, bellies, hips, lips, eyes). It's almost like if men - while in control of their sexual needs- go mental and let their imagination take the best of them. The hourglass figure was sought after, but so was bigger women with more exaggerated forms. What was even more surprising is that males also tended to keep their findings for themselves, (they never actually shared the content with other males, or if they did it was under the cover of anonymity).
It seems to make perfect sense from an evolutionary standpoint that most heterosexual males seek that kind of imagery. Sight and touch are the most utilized senses when trying to find a mate, "the bigger the better".
Although, in French we tend to say:"Trop c'est comme pas assez." "Too much is as bad as not enough."
I think we have sort of the same principal going on in video games. Like anything that is related to fantasy, it is of the utmost importance to distinguish reality from fiction. There should be some kind of disclaimer to break this osmotic fabricated bond between the two. Such disclaimer might look like this: "The depiction of women bodies in this video game reflects in no way the acceptable standards of beauty of our society and are of a purely exaggerated nature."
If that kind of honesty could be brought forward by most video game publishers - especially Japanese ones- there could at least be a clear, conscious acknowledgement of the issue. That's the problem in most cases, we have no way of knowing if the game developers had the intention of creating female characters for their "sex appeal" or their real narrative contribution to the story.
Lara Croft was created purely for eye-candy. Does it make me hate the games and the character less or more? No. I love Lara, and I enjoyed the games immensely. And I would be lying if I said that I didn't find her attractive, but that's not the point. It all comes down to knowing what's real and what isn't.
Doesn't seem too complicated, but for a lot of people it is. And it's a shame.
Whilst online, the female anatomy "inflated" tenfold, (breasts, bosoms, bellies, hips, lips, eyes). It's almost like if men - while in control of their sexual needs- go mental and let their imagination take the best of them. The hourglass figure was sought after, but so was bigger women with more exaggerated forms. What was even more surprising is that males also tended to keep their findings for themselves, (they never actually shared the content with other males, or if they did it was under the cover of anonymity).
It seems to make perfect sense from an evolutionary standpoint that most heterosexual males seek that kind of imagery. Sight and touch are the most utilized senses when trying to find a mate, "the bigger the better".
Although, in French we tend to say:"Trop c'est comme pas assez." "Too much is as bad as not enough."
I think we have sort of the same principal going on in video games. Like anything that is related to fantasy, it is of the utmost importance to distinguish reality from fiction. There should be some kind of disclaimer to break this osmotic fabricated bond between the two. Such disclaimer might look like this: "The depiction of women bodies in this video game reflects in no way the acceptable standards of beauty of our society and are of a purely exaggerated nature."
If that kind of honesty could be brought forward by most video game publishers - especially Japanese ones- there could at least be a clear, conscious acknowledgement of the issue. That's the problem in most cases, we have no way of knowing if the game developers had the intention of creating female characters for their "sex appeal" or their real narrative contribution to the story.
Lara Croft was created purely for eye-candy. Does it make me hate the games and the character less or more? No. I love Lara, and I enjoyed the games immensely. And I would be lying if I said that I didn't find her attractive, but that's not the point. It all comes down to knowing what's real and what isn't.
Doesn't seem too complicated, but for a lot of people it is. And it's a shame.
I agree with you, but a few thoughts:
1. You essentially say, 'Women are always shown with big boobs, while men have more variety! Why, there's an old man who is muscular and fit, a skinny man who is muscular and fit, a big man who is muscular and fit, and slightly smaller big man who is muscular and fit, and a man who is muscular and fit.' You make your point very well that women seem to be more affected by this, but I'm a man and I'm fat; I never found a video game protagonist with my body type.
2. Calling anime a way to sexualize women harms your argument. Yes, it can be used to that aspect, and yes, childish appearance and demeanors are considered sexy in Japan, but the main purpose of an anime face is to blow up facial emotions. What you argued is the equivalent of trying to ban trenchcoats because streakers use them.
3. While I agree completely and without reserve that the two ripe melons clumsily attacked to Elizabeth's chest should not exist on this plane, her thin waist doesn't bother me at all, because to me it's clearly part of the stylization of her character. If you look at the huge Bioshock trailer you'll see characters are very stylized, closer to Borderlands that the previous Bioshock - enemies usually have large hands and heads. I am 100% sure that if she didn't have produce growing out of her chest you would not think of her as excessively slim, in the same way that you don't think of Charlie Brown as having a huge head (or don't notice that Snoopy's back paws triple in size when he's standing up on them).
1. You essentially say, 'Women are always shown with big boobs, while men have more variety! Why, there's an old man who is muscular and fit, a skinny man who is muscular and fit, a big man who is muscular and fit, and slightly smaller big man who is muscular and fit, and a man who is muscular and fit.' You make your point very well that women seem to be more affected by this, but I'm a man and I'm fat; I never found a video game protagonist with my body type.
2. Calling anime a way to sexualize women harms your argument. Yes, it can be used to that aspect, and yes, childish appearance and demeanors are considered sexy in Japan, but the main purpose of an anime face is to blow up facial emotions. What you argued is the equivalent of trying to ban trenchcoats because streakers use them.
3. While I agree completely and without reserve that the two ripe melons clumsily attacked to Elizabeth's chest should not exist on this plane, her thin waist doesn't bother me at all, because to me it's clearly part of the stylization of her character. If you look at the huge Bioshock trailer you'll see characters are very stylized, closer to Borderlands that the previous Bioshock - enemies usually have large hands and heads. I am 100% sure that if she didn't have produce growing out of her chest you would not think of her as excessively slim, in the same way that you don't think of Charlie Brown as having a huge head (or don't notice that Snoopy's back paws triple in size when he's standing up on them).
@TheRandomOne
Sorry, the "but all the men are athletic" holds no water, because these attributes enhance the abilities of a character. Last I checked, Ivy's breasts do not help female MMA fighters inflict more damage on an opponent. And as for the fat people argument, only if it is a comedy game, or a special mode like Donut Drake. Again, no believability that the hero can sprint for longer than 10 seconds.
@Elsa
Great read, would love to see much more of this kind of content in the future.
Sorry, the "but all the men are athletic" holds no water, because these attributes enhance the abilities of a character. Last I checked, Ivy's breasts do not help female MMA fighters inflict more damage on an opponent. And as for the fat people argument, only if it is a comedy game, or a special mode like Donut Drake. Again, no believability that the hero can sprint for longer than 10 seconds.
@Elsa
Great read, would love to see much more of this kind of content in the future.
The female self image problem has always existed. I suspect it's genetic; a result of the need to attract the best and strongest warriors.
Some of the anime and game women are annoying. Skyrim annoyed me as I wasn't happy with a lot of the women or men, but it had more to do with how the texture/modelling was designed I think. Most games go with weird child like or unnatural looks and clothes that don't match the environment.
I do understand that sex sells and of course there are many men who just love large boobs, so content producers exaggerate them. It saddens me to see women replace their bodies with synthetics, though.
Some of the anime and game women are annoying. Skyrim annoyed me as I wasn't happy with a lot of the women or men, but it had more to do with how the texture/modelling was designed I think. Most games go with weird child like or unnatural looks and clothes that don't match the environment.
I do understand that sex sells and of course there are many men who just love large boobs, so content producers exaggerate them. It saddens me to see women replace their bodies with synthetics, though.
The way you put it, I can see how Elizabeth can come off as hurtful imagery. The crap human existence has crammed the female form into is ridiculous and sick.
I think that's why I never took Elizabeth there.
She seemed to me to just be this weird, but natural exaggeration. You see this general form and you start to really dissassociate it from the artifacts that create it in the real world.
Aside from that, Elizabeth really stands out as almost alien in her features, really exaggerated and cartoony. Her shape feels to me more bendy artstyle than act of binding.
What will be interesting, fingers crossed, is if this idea of binding ends up playing into the character. Without bringing in too much spoiler talk or guess work, the idea that Elizabeth is bound by captor or obligation seems to be a theme they want to get across, at least in the early promotional stuffs.
I say this only the most playful of double intendre: I hope we can get Elizabeth out of that corset by the end of the game.
I think that's why I never took Elizabeth there.
She seemed to me to just be this weird, but natural exaggeration. You see this general form and you start to really dissassociate it from the artifacts that create it in the real world.
Aside from that, Elizabeth really stands out as almost alien in her features, really exaggerated and cartoony. Her shape feels to me more bendy artstyle than act of binding.
What will be interesting, fingers crossed, is if this idea of binding ends up playing into the character. Without bringing in too much spoiler talk or guess work, the idea that Elizabeth is bound by captor or obligation seems to be a theme they want to get across, at least in the early promotional stuffs.
I say this only the most playful of double intendre: I hope we can get Elizabeth out of that corset by the end of the game.
This is one of those blogs that I find hard to answer. I mean regardless of the topic, where does a person's own ideas start and the media's influence end?? Whether it's about body image, politics, video games, sports, business, the environment, whatever....people need to be able to take in information, filter out the bullshit, and make their own decisions on things. It's a little difficult when it comes to video games - a male-dominated industry where women are slowly beginning to get footings - since we can really only play the games that they make but I'm sure in time more realistic renders of women with "healthy" body images will crop up.
Thanks for this. Even if we ignore the real world psychological toll warped body image causes, even if we dismiss the staggering amount of evidence linking the ubiquity of these unrealistic depictions with the rise of unhealthy, collective body issues, even if we put all that out of our minds, you'd like to think more developers would steer clear of this type of crap because it is really, really tacky. It's considered a crass, immature social faux paus in almost all other forms of expression to make one of your main protagonists a svelte dominatrix with 50 triple-D knockers for no reason other than ad-grubbing titillation. The fact that so many gamers tolerate it, or in many cases defend it in red-faced tirades about how entitled they are to their increasingly whack-ass fantasy women, speaks very ill of us as a social group.
And while I don't think there's anything particularly egregious with Elizabeth in the context of contemporary gaming (another drop in an unfortunate bucket), she's become the focal point of this larger issue because I think many of us expected more from Irrational Games. It's very rare to see a character make a genuine appeal to our emotions and sympathies. Most developers aren't ambitious, earnest, or brave enough to try. But it really undercuts all that artistic effort when the character in question is sporting more rack than a Hooter's waitress. You want to make a memorable character, start with making her not look like every other female game character. Come on, Irrational: Is there anything more cynical and wearying at this point than a pair of giant CG tits?
And while I don't think there's anything particularly egregious with Elizabeth in the context of contemporary gaming (another drop in an unfortunate bucket), she's become the focal point of this larger issue because I think many of us expected more from Irrational Games. It's very rare to see a character make a genuine appeal to our emotions and sympathies. Most developers aren't ambitious, earnest, or brave enough to try. But it really undercuts all that artistic effort when the character in question is sporting more rack than a Hooter's waitress. You want to make a memorable character, start with making her not look like every other female game character. Come on, Irrational: Is there anything more cynical and wearying at this point than a pair of giant CG tits?
The interesting thing about this topic other then it is so hard to nail down is the fact that our body image issues will only be made more weird with the coming of technology.
I recall from a discussion a year ago that I foresaw a future were our augmented brains would eventually replace the "raw" visual, auditory, and sensation data we cognate now with inserted augmented reality. In the future, you might send out visual, auditory, and sensation data that other people’s brains will SEE, HEAR, and TOUCH. Thus if you want to appear 6ft tall, with lustrous long blond hair, blue eyes, tanned skin, and a gravity defying bosom you could do that. There might be a business look we project at work, a look we project during leisure time, a look for going to church or court, a look for intimate time with our spouse, and a look for intimate time with our extramarital lover.
Might there we a time when we tell out 15 year old daughters, “You not leaving the house projecting that persona….erase that profile-save off your head-drive this instant young lady!!!!” Might there be a time when we project a different avatar all the time, where we bend the social rules by projecting different looks all the time. Might there be times when we INTENTIONALLY deny people’s projected personas forcing them to know we see them as they ARE in the raw light spectrum? Might we invent a completely new “social etiquette system” where it is considered rude to reject the looks people projections?
What does self-image mean when your self-image can be ANYTHING you imagine. What does fashion mean when you can make it appears you are wearing anything or nothing at all? What is a sense of self if you hardly ever see your ‘real’ self in a mirror? How as humans do we handle that our own ideas on beauty, proper attire, proper appearance for social setting might be our own only.
What do we do when it is not only easy to change the way you appear, but advantageous. Will be like to find out that maybe only a tiny percentage of people who would like to cross dress do so now. What will it be like when what we do online to sculpt ourselves is possible in the world...yet it is just as easily taken away? What do we do when a HACKER can make you appear ugly..., injured..., or dead in other people's minds!
WHAT IF THE ZOMBIE APOKYLYPE OCCURS - BUT IT IS JUST IN OUR HEADS!
I recall from a discussion a year ago that I foresaw a future were our augmented brains would eventually replace the "raw" visual, auditory, and sensation data we cognate now with inserted augmented reality. In the future, you might send out visual, auditory, and sensation data that other people’s brains will SEE, HEAR, and TOUCH. Thus if you want to appear 6ft tall, with lustrous long blond hair, blue eyes, tanned skin, and a gravity defying bosom you could do that. There might be a business look we project at work, a look we project during leisure time, a look for going to church or court, a look for intimate time with our spouse, and a look for intimate time with our extramarital lover.
Might there we a time when we tell out 15 year old daughters, “You not leaving the house projecting that persona….erase that profile-save off your head-drive this instant young lady!!!!” Might there be a time when we project a different avatar all the time, where we bend the social rules by projecting different looks all the time. Might there be times when we INTENTIONALLY deny people’s projected personas forcing them to know we see them as they ARE in the raw light spectrum? Might we invent a completely new “social etiquette system” where it is considered rude to reject the looks people projections?
What does self-image mean when your self-image can be ANYTHING you imagine. What does fashion mean when you can make it appears you are wearing anything or nothing at all? What is a sense of self if you hardly ever see your ‘real’ self in a mirror? How as humans do we handle that our own ideas on beauty, proper attire, proper appearance for social setting might be our own only.
What do we do when it is not only easy to change the way you appear, but advantageous. Will be like to find out that maybe only a tiny percentage of people who would like to cross dress do so now. What will it be like when what we do online to sculpt ourselves is possible in the world...yet it is just as easily taken away? What do we do when a HACKER can make you appear ugly..., injured..., or dead in other people's minds!
WHAT IF THE ZOMBIE APOKYLYPE OCCURS - BUT IT IS JUST IN OUR HEADS!
I have some ideas on the subject, but don't want to post a blog in your comments so I'll just say great article! I like how this blog focuses more on the culture surrounding and breeding this sort of media rather pointing out that this or that game is sexist. I think the cultural aspect of it is what really matters and what many people seem to overlook.
While I agree with what some are saying about personal responsibility, you can't forget that applies to developers too. People have to be aware of what they are doing and why. I read an interview from the lead developer on Skullgirls after allegations of the game being sexist. One of his arguments was that they had a female on staff so they it can't be that bad. I never looked at the game as sexist but his argument really annoyed me because he wasn't taking responsibility for what he was doing. He couldn't come up with a single good reason about why he designed his characters that way. This article may focus on women body image but men fall under the same influences women do. It's possible the guy has no clue why he chose to draw his provocative characters; it could be he just did it because that imagery was ingrained in his memory the same way little girls grow up with that prince charming bullshit in their heads.
A far as Elizabeth herself I never looked at her as being the product of people who hate women. I never focused on her tits or her waste because the videos I saw never emphasized her shapely features the way most games do. Those videos sold me on the characters, the setting and the atmosphere. To me she seems a lot like the character Hanna from the film of the same name. That interests me a lot more than her boobs. I'm not ready to damn Irrational yet.
While I agree with what some are saying about personal responsibility, you can't forget that applies to developers too. People have to be aware of what they are doing and why. I read an interview from the lead developer on Skullgirls after allegations of the game being sexist. One of his arguments was that they had a female on staff so they it can't be that bad. I never looked at the game as sexist but his argument really annoyed me because he wasn't taking responsibility for what he was doing. He couldn't come up with a single good reason about why he designed his characters that way. This article may focus on women body image but men fall under the same influences women do. It's possible the guy has no clue why he chose to draw his provocative characters; it could be he just did it because that imagery was ingrained in his memory the same way little girls grow up with that prince charming bullshit in their heads.
A far as Elizabeth herself I never looked at her as being the product of people who hate women. I never focused on her tits or her waste because the videos I saw never emphasized her shapely features the way most games do. Those videos sold me on the characters, the setting and the atmosphere. To me she seems a lot like the character Hanna from the film of the same name. That interests me a lot more than her boobs. I'm not ready to damn Irrational yet.
I will throw in another example of poor female character design. Samus Aran was always a kickass lady who wore battle armor and underneath was some kind of skintight suit and I accept that. What I hate is when Metroid: Zero Mission came out it reinvented Samus with a REALLY skintight jumpsuit and a figure that fits the suit rather than the suit fitting her. Combine it with the game Super Smash Bros. Brawl and you have Zero Suit Samus in a game designed with children in mind. Samus has now become a massive sexy symbol of torpedo breasts instead of a symbol of awesome badassery regardless of gender.
This "is" a good argument. I don't mind the fantasy part in the equation but when real women feel pressured into harmful physical augmentation that's when "the wrongness" comes into play full circle.
Being a guy that draws some of these "unrealistic women" I just want to go on the record by saying I don't "expect" real females to look like my drawings. I've stomped around as a dinosaur for awhile and I can honestly say I've found women of all types to be attractive!
One thing that should be weighed is graphic designers are just as often influenced by "entertainment" and "the media" as often as anyone else. Also if say some of us are better at "cartoony anime-styled drek" as opposed to photo realism it should be "common sense" that getting plastic surgery and painful contacts installed to look more like a cel shaded 2D manga school girl is rather "stupid".
Social expectations are to blame but because I'm an "equalist" that adheres to the truth women always have the potential to be strong willed and "smart" they shouldn't choose to degrade themselves merely to fit in to begin with. Aka once they cross that line it's as much their fault as those manipulating them. (Unless of course they were raised up in a misogynist closed off violent environment that brain-washed them their whole lives. And no, I don't count places such as the UK, America,and Canada because despite the "media peer pressure" we do still at least get to choose our paths.)
My advice to women obsessed with being "pretty"? Beauty fades. You're going to want to put more "stat points" into "heart" and "soul" eventually. Looking hawt may get a guy's (or girl's if you swing that way) attention but being a good person is what keeps him (or her)!
Now if only I could follow my own advice. I still feel pressured into being the great provider and sacrificing my life on account a valiant "hero's death" is how every worthwhile male should exit this world! (According to movies) See? Having a cock is difficult too!
Being a guy that draws some of these "unrealistic women" I just want to go on the record by saying I don't "expect" real females to look like my drawings. I've stomped around as a dinosaur for awhile and I can honestly say I've found women of all types to be attractive!
One thing that should be weighed is graphic designers are just as often influenced by "entertainment" and "the media" as often as anyone else. Also if say some of us are better at "cartoony anime-styled drek" as opposed to photo realism it should be "common sense" that getting plastic surgery and painful contacts installed to look more like a cel shaded 2D manga school girl is rather "stupid".
Social expectations are to blame but because I'm an "equalist" that adheres to the truth women always have the potential to be strong willed and "smart" they shouldn't choose to degrade themselves merely to fit in to begin with. Aka once they cross that line it's as much their fault as those manipulating them. (Unless of course they were raised up in a misogynist closed off violent environment that brain-washed them their whole lives. And no, I don't count places such as the UK, America,and Canada because despite the "media peer pressure" we do still at least get to choose our paths.)
My advice to women obsessed with being "pretty"? Beauty fades. You're going to want to put more "stat points" into "heart" and "soul" eventually. Looking hawt may get a guy's (or girl's if you swing that way) attention but being a good person is what keeps him (or her)!
Now if only I could follow my own advice. I still feel pressured into being the great provider and sacrificing my life on account a valiant "hero's death" is how every worthwhile male should exit this world! (According to movies) See? Having a cock is difficult too!
There is a very good NOVA/PBS documentary on perception of the opposite sex (same sex for gay members) where our brains are wired to "like" overly exaggerated figures. The 'long story short' of the science is that our brains (in this theory) are wired to very quickly identify "mates or rivals" very quickly. When the silhouette of a person is over exaggerated, our brains can identify males or females more quickly. The quicker our brains can make the identification the happier (less stressed we are).
In other words, people like ART some levels, especially "charactiture" art, because it makes our brains have an easier time understanding. There is a load of science about how "charactiture" art is highly effective for books, films, adverting, etc because it works deeply in our primitive 'monkey' brains. It makes a lot of sense that art caught on with our early kin because it works for our minds so much better for transmitting stories and concepts. A fertility god that is all hips and boobs is more understandable then a picture of a more realistic woman.
I will add that neuroscientists said in the above documentary that an INABILITY to be effected or enjoy "charactiture" art is a sign of psychological impairment. That is to say if you are a person (in theory) who says, "Sexy animation/pictures are not at all titillating" it means you could be cognitively impaired. Your brain might not be healthy if it cannot find sexy cartoons stimulating. Food for thought when you get in a conversation with people who insist Betty Rubble isn’t cute. On the other hand, I think people are VERY scared to talk about what they find sexy. Some people will NEVER admit they find Batman sexy in a comic book, or will never admit the cartoon in a cold/flue medicine commercial is sort of nice to look at or think about.
In other words, people like ART some levels, especially "charactiture" art, because it makes our brains have an easier time understanding. There is a load of science about how "charactiture" art is highly effective for books, films, adverting, etc because it works deeply in our primitive 'monkey' brains. It makes a lot of sense that art caught on with our early kin because it works for our minds so much better for transmitting stories and concepts. A fertility god that is all hips and boobs is more understandable then a picture of a more realistic woman.
I will add that neuroscientists said in the above documentary that an INABILITY to be effected or enjoy "charactiture" art is a sign of psychological impairment. That is to say if you are a person (in theory) who says, "Sexy animation/pictures are not at all titillating" it means you could be cognitively impaired. Your brain might not be healthy if it cannot find sexy cartoons stimulating. Food for thought when you get in a conversation with people who insist Betty Rubble isn’t cute. On the other hand, I think people are VERY scared to talk about what they find sexy. Some people will NEVER admit they find Batman sexy in a comic book, or will never admit the cartoon in a cold/flue medicine commercial is sort of nice to look at or think about.
I'd have to disagree. I would in no way say that the male characters in games and movies provide a attainable goal for males. The perception of the stone cold muscled killer, the cowboy that never cries, the man's man, and so on are no less stressful. Men and boys die trying to prove they are real "Men". Suicide, car wrecks, steroids, war, War, WAR. The fact is, that without these extreme perfected examples we would settle for less. Will some push themselves into destruction? Yes, but many more will find a balance and push themselves to improve to get closer to this ideal. I will never be as awesome as Batman, but it isn't bad to try. No one should be babied so that they don't have to improve themselves. Also, I don't know a single woman that plays games and has breast implants....actually I don't know anyone with breast implants at all.
In the end I don't like the idea of social censorship to protect people from themselves. Developers should make the games they wanna make. Instead how about we complain about the people being too impressionable. They would find something, anything, no matter what. It is in some humans nature. The problem is your imagining 300,000 intelligent women butchering themselves for the sake of being sexy, but thats not true. Rich people. Spoiled rich people do things like get fake boobs. Dumbasses get boob jobs. How many men get their wieners stuck in shampoo bottles each year? 2.5 million? Doesn't mean they should increase the nozzle size. We should never compromise for morons.
In the end I don't like the idea of social censorship to protect people from themselves. Developers should make the games they wanna make. Instead how about we complain about the people being too impressionable. They would find something, anything, no matter what. It is in some humans nature. The problem is your imagining 300,000 intelligent women butchering themselves for the sake of being sexy, but thats not true. Rich people. Spoiled rich people do things like get fake boobs. Dumbasses get boob jobs. How many men get their wieners stuck in shampoo bottles each year? 2.5 million? Doesn't mean they should increase the nozzle size. We should never compromise for morons.
