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REXWOLF - Support. Yeah, he answered it how I will. I wish I could say more, but he literally went into my mind and stole my arguments!
REXWOLF - As he stated, "Mario games are timeless. Nintendo doesn't pander to a current audience or try to make him "cool" (unlike a certain hedgehog I could mention); Mario is just Mario, and he will never change." We're still playing, and loving, the original Super Mario Brothers after 26 years. That's a lot of staying power that very few, if any, franchises could match.
MACHINA -- as much as I'd like Mario to continue his adventures into the future, I think it's unlikely that I'll be sitting in my futuristic house-pod following the moustache man's exploits.
Rexwolf: Mario games will always have a certain charm to them. When you have a character that has been the face of the franchise since 1983, and when you consider that people (myself included) still play the original NES Mario Bros 28 years later, you know that it has that "it" factor to keep going strong.
MACHINA - "every franchise must run out of steam eventually." This encapsulates it perfectly. While the Mario franchise is blessed with extreme longevity, nothing can last forever. Miyamoto is only a person. Eventually he will stop making games at Nintendo, and even more eventually, he will die. Will Mario be able to continue without him? I'm not sure. There are lots of extremely talented and visionary game designers out there, but I don't know who else would be able to capture the intrinsic "Mario-ness" of the franchise.
I don't want the series to end, but someday it will.
I don't want the series to end, but someday it will.
MACHINA - Almost playing devil's advocate here, but I believe there's some truth to what that Dent guy said: You either die a hero or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain. I'd rather see Mario disappear gracefully when his time comes, rather than running out of steam year after year. I think (and hope) that Nintendo will recognize this in 25 years.
REXWOLF - Super Mario Galaxy 2 restored my faith in Mario games. If the last one was Sunshine, I would have voted machina. There are others brilliant creators, developpers out there who will take on the series at some point.
MACHINA defnitely.
What's worse is that it might be best if Mario were to retire with Miyamoto. I'd rather see the creative birth of a new icon by his spiritual successor than for a developer talented enough to carry on the Mario franchise piggybacking on his legacy.
What's worse is that it might be best if Mario were to retire with Miyamoto. I'd rather see the creative birth of a new icon by his spiritual successor than for a developer talented enough to carry on the Mario franchise piggybacking on his legacy.
I agree with Byronic Man's point. Mario himself is a hallmark of gaming -- perhaps the most recognisable face in this industry. As such, it would be a risky manoeuvre on the part of Miyamoto's successor to try and inject new life into Mario. I'd rather see a new face representing Nintendo in future generations than one which is well past retirement age.
I agree with Byronic Man's point. Mario himself is a hallmark of gaming -- perhaps the most recognisable face in this industry. As such, it would be a risky manoeuvre on the part of Miyamoto's successor to try and inject new life into Mario. I'd rather see a new face representing Nintendo in future generations than one which is well past retirement age.
REXWOLF but with the caveat that it will probably end with Miyamoto but if they can find someone to helm the franchise and guide it in the right direction then it could continue on even longer.
Shame we don't have history to guide us on this one. Hmmm...the Hardy Boys books are still read. Nancy Drew as well. So maybe it could last. Gooooood debate topic.
Shame we don't have history to guide us on this one. Hmmm...the Hardy Boys books are still read. Nancy Drew as well. So maybe it could last. Gooooood debate topic.
REXWOLF
My main reason for agreeing with this is because Nintendo doesn't do a yearly release for their starring platformer. The N64 and GameCube only saw one "true" Mario game and I can see them reverting back to that if the games ever begin to get stale. While I haven't played any of the other platformers on the Wii, games like Kirby, Donkey Kong and Wario were all highly praised showing that Miyamoto isn't the only one at Nintendo that knows how to make a game in this genre. Can the games really stay fresh for another 25 years?? That is really hard to say but I think as long as they continue to put in 4-player coop from here on out, I'll be playing. Plus Mario Kart never gets old.
The only way I really see Mario retiring is if Nintendo decides that it is better to make Miis the sole face of the company. That is the day I kill myself.
My main reason for agreeing with this is because Nintendo doesn't do a yearly release for their starring platformer. The N64 and GameCube only saw one "true" Mario game and I can see them reverting back to that if the games ever begin to get stale. While I haven't played any of the other platformers on the Wii, games like Kirby, Donkey Kong and Wario were all highly praised showing that Miyamoto isn't the only one at Nintendo that knows how to make a game in this genre. Can the games really stay fresh for another 25 years?? That is really hard to say but I think as long as they continue to put in 4-player coop from here on out, I'll be playing. Plus Mario Kart never gets old.
The only way I really see Mario retiring is if Nintendo decides that it is better to make Miis the sole face of the company. That is the day I kill myself.
REXWOLF While I'd like to see awesome new stuff being put out by Nintendo in 25 years, Mario will always be around. "Gamers" of this generation will have kids around that time, and those kids will be playing Mario and it will still be "New and Super" to them, at least. I don't think it's possible to steal the magic of playing Super Mario unless you wipe out its existence from the history of video games, or something drastic like that.
REXWOLF
Though I'm certainly wary of Ben's bleak outlook of the future, I honestly can't imagine a world in which Mario games are no longer the pinnacle of platform gaming.
Great debate, guys!
Though I'm certainly wary of Ben's bleak outlook of the future, I honestly can't imagine a world in which Mario games are no longer the pinnacle of platform gaming.
Great debate, guys!
MACHINA
It's sad to say, but even Miyamoto will run out of 1-UPs one day. Granted, Nintendo has had great success in finding third-party developers for some of its most valuable franchises- notably, Retro Studios for Metroid and Rare for Donkey Kong. However, the Mario games have existed in an indistinct world, devoid of any real storytelling or plot advancement- and once Miyamoto finally hits his killscreen, the childlike wonder that has driven the series for so long will finally be gone, and Mario will be left in the hands of companies that, while capable of putting out an excellent release, will ultimately fall to the temptation to be derivative or overly plot-driven. It'll be like Dreamworks making a Toy Story movie- competently done, even enjoyable, but tinged with a certain brand of desperation, a lack of faith in the player or its own creative vision that simply does not exist in the mind of Miyamoto.
Miyamoto means more to Mario than Dan Castalanetta means to Homer Simpson. There will be no replacement.
It's sad to say, but even Miyamoto will run out of 1-UPs one day. Granted, Nintendo has had great success in finding third-party developers for some of its most valuable franchises- notably, Retro Studios for Metroid and Rare for Donkey Kong. However, the Mario games have existed in an indistinct world, devoid of any real storytelling or plot advancement- and once Miyamoto finally hits his killscreen, the childlike wonder that has driven the series for so long will finally be gone, and Mario will be left in the hands of companies that, while capable of putting out an excellent release, will ultimately fall to the temptation to be derivative or overly plot-driven. It'll be like Dreamworks making a Toy Story movie- competently done, even enjoyable, but tinged with a certain brand of desperation, a lack of faith in the player or its own creative vision that simply does not exist in the mind of Miyamoto.
Miyamoto means more to Mario than Dan Castalanetta means to Homer Simpson. There will be no replacement.
REXWOLF:Personally i have the firm belief that if Mario games ever die it won't be due to Nintendo dropping quality, but the audience not caring, also what CelicaCrazed said.
REXWOLF - But only because the proposition is "only" 25 years time, where there is probably still a good percentage of the current generation left (who I think has still some veneration for the series).
But 150 years? I'd want for it to still thrive but the possibility is a little questionable. Don't get me wrong though, Mario may stop as a series but it will be forever printed in vg history books or whathaveyou as a very special series that had a large impact on the industry.
And yes, I truly fear what would happen if Miyamoto-san is sent to the great Lakitu home in the sky.
But 150 years? I'd want for it to still thrive but the possibility is a little questionable. Don't get me wrong though, Mario may stop as a series but it will be forever printed in vg history books or whathaveyou as a very special series that had a large impact on the industry.
And yes, I truly fear what would happen if Miyamoto-san is sent to the great Lakitu home in the sky.
Machina
I don't want to be 50 and still rolling to Mario. I honestly hope to be dead by then, or next week.
I don't want to be 50 and still rolling to Mario. I honestly hope to be dead by then, or next week.
REXWOLF - Miyamoto has been in a producer role for a while now, and Nintendo's games are still top notch. The best reason to own a Wii is Nintendo games. Miyamoto is not the only man to touch Mario...products. It takes a team.
As long as Nintendo is dedicated to releasing quality games, there will be great Mario games.
As long as Nintendo is dedicated to releasing quality games, there will be great Mario games.
Both make extremely compelling points. Parts of me agree with Machina, parts of me go with Rexwolf.
Overall though, I'm going with REXWOLF, mostly because of the current popularity of the Mario Party/Sports series, New Super Mario Bros. Wii, and Mario Galaxy. In 25 years, the kids that grew up with those games now will be old and looking for nostalgia. Kids will likely still enjoy the series too, especially with their Mario-bred parents bringing home new Mario games for them to enjoy.
Then there's the people like myself who will be in their 50's and 60's who will be clutching onto dear life and anything that makes us feel connected with the modern culture. We'll be buying the Mario games of 2036 as well.
Like Walt Disney, Miyamoto's creations will surely outlive him by many, many generations.
Overall though, I'm going with REXWOLF, mostly because of the current popularity of the Mario Party/Sports series, New Super Mario Bros. Wii, and Mario Galaxy. In 25 years, the kids that grew up with those games now will be old and looking for nostalgia. Kids will likely still enjoy the series too, especially with their Mario-bred parents bringing home new Mario games for them to enjoy.
Then there's the people like myself who will be in their 50's and 60's who will be clutching onto dear life and anything that makes us feel connected with the modern culture. We'll be buying the Mario games of 2036 as well.
Like Walt Disney, Miyamoto's creations will surely outlive him by many, many generations.
@Holmes: When will we find out whether or not Miyamoto liked orgies, was an anti-semite, or planned to escape death with cryogenics?
I'm going to go with MACHINA. While Mario games are still generally well-crafted pieces of gaming, they haven't really enchanted me since Super Mario World. Mario Galaxy was fun, but not really compelling, and the New Super Mario Brothers games left me underwhelmed after the first few levels.
I mean, I don't know if it's just my changing tastes or Mario's lack of identity that has made me lose interest (he's more of an icon than an actual character, kind of like Mickey Mouse). Although Mario was instrumental and innovative in gaming 20 years ago, I don't believe that's what gaming will be in 25 years. Maybe Mario will be reinvented once again (as he has been over the years) but to me, he feels less relevant and special than he once did (and this is coming from a Zelda fan, by the way), and I don't think things will get better in the next 25.
I mean, I don't know if it's just my changing tastes or Mario's lack of identity that has made me lose interest (he's more of an icon than an actual character, kind of like Mickey Mouse). Although Mario was instrumental and innovative in gaming 20 years ago, I don't believe that's what gaming will be in 25 years. Maybe Mario will be reinvented once again (as he has been over the years) but to me, he feels less relevant and special than he once did (and this is coming from a Zelda fan, by the way), and I don't think things will get better in the next 25.
REXWOLF
While other companies drive popular franchises into the ground by drowning the consumer with uninspired sequels, Nintendo manages to keep it's franchises alive by smartly staggering it's releases and experimenting with new ideas with each iteration. They've kept Mario and the Legend of Zelda around for over 20 years and I'm positive that Pokemon will be right behind them soon.
For every jaded gamer predicting that the fall of Nintendo is nigh , there are 100 gamers right behind him with money in hand, ready to buy anything will "Mario" printed on the cover.
While other companies drive popular franchises into the ground by drowning the consumer with uninspired sequels, Nintendo manages to keep it's franchises alive by smartly staggering it's releases and experimenting with new ideas with each iteration. They've kept Mario and the Legend of Zelda around for over 20 years and I'm positive that Pokemon will be right behind them soon.
For every jaded gamer predicting that the fall of Nintendo is nigh , there are 100 gamers right behind him with money in hand, ready to buy anything will "Mario" printed on the cover.
MACHINA - It's impossible to forecast where the industry might be a quarter of a century from now, or if it will even exist in a form we can presently recognize. Even if he does somehow survive the inevitable wax and wane of gaming's popularity, he won't be the same Mario we know today. So I vote Machina on a technicality if nothing else, because either way he won't be Mario as we know him.
On a side note, Caiters' post got me thinking. How awesome would it be to play a remake of Donkey Kong that casts Mario as the villain? The player takes the role of a monstrous gorilla who's been ostracized by society for having an interspecies relationship with his human girlfriend, and has nothing but barrels to defend their penthouse home from a crazed plumber's jealous assaults. I would totally play that. :)
On a side note, Caiters' post got me thinking. How awesome would it be to play a remake of Donkey Kong that casts Mario as the villain? The player takes the role of a monstrous gorilla who's been ostracized by society for having an interspecies relationship with his human girlfriend, and has nothing but barrels to defend their penthouse home from a crazed plumber's jealous assaults. I would totally play that. :)
REXWOLF
This is easy. The only way Mario will not be relevant twenty five years from now is if Nintendo itself does not exist.
The franchise does not depend on Miyamoto. Mario is successful mostly because of the polish of its game design. Nintendo has one of the best corporate environments and employee retention rates of any company in the world. That will not change.
Furthermore, Zelda has turned out fine, if not better, since Eiji Aonuma took the franchise over. I'm not worried about Mario, a franchise that should be even harder to mess up.
This is easy. The only way Mario will not be relevant twenty five years from now is if Nintendo itself does not exist.
The franchise does not depend on Miyamoto. Mario is successful mostly because of the polish of its game design. Nintendo has one of the best corporate environments and employee retention rates of any company in the world. That will not change.
Furthermore, Zelda has turned out fine, if not better, since Eiji Aonuma took the franchise over. I'm not worried about Mario, a franchise that should be even harder to mess up.
REXWOLF
Its important to note that Miyamoto doesn't make the Mario games single handedly. While he may be the prominent driving force for them for now, there are likely a number of individuals who've worked on the games that have also made various important contributions to the level designs and concepts or who really knows what? At the very least, once Miyamoto's finally out of the picture, there would still certainly be enough experienced development staff to make an incredibly solid Mario platformer, even if they lacked Miyamoto's unique inspiration that makes us love him so.
I agree with Holmes's comparison to Disney, Mario will almost certainly outlive his original creator and whether that takes him to hopefully new highs or maybe lows is something to be seen.
Its important to note that Miyamoto doesn't make the Mario games single handedly. While he may be the prominent driving force for them for now, there are likely a number of individuals who've worked on the games that have also made various important contributions to the level designs and concepts or who really knows what? At the very least, once Miyamoto's finally out of the picture, there would still certainly be enough experienced development staff to make an incredibly solid Mario platformer, even if they lacked Miyamoto's unique inspiration that makes us love him so.
I agree with Holmes's comparison to Disney, Mario will almost certainly outlive his original creator and whether that takes him to hopefully new highs or maybe lows is something to be seen.
(REXWOLF)--though AwesomeEx's theory of every franchise running out of steam is accurate, you can't count out on how much a cultral phenomenon Mario is. I remember watching a survey on how kids notices popular child icons. The kids noticed Mario more than Mickey Mouse. Mickey fucking Mouse! Mario has stomped in a Carbon footprint, not only establishing on how videogames impacted us and the future, but how such a charming, loveable, and tubby plumber from Brooklyn can sew in a part of our lives.
And miyamoto dying? Though that will cause the videogaming universe to freeze in place for 8 months, remember this--Walt Disney died, and Mickey thrives on with grace.
Mel Blanc died, and the Looney Tunes are still relevant.
And miyamoto dying? Though that will cause the videogaming universe to freeze in place for 8 months, remember this--Walt Disney died, and Mickey thrives on with grace.
Mel Blanc died, and the Looney Tunes are still relevant.
REXWOLF is probably going to be the right prediction, at least for the reason that Nintendo kind of sort of invented (or at least popularized) the 2D platforming genre, then did it again with the 3D platforming genre. They have a proven track record of this, and that gives me confidence that they can evolve it in new directions we haven't even thought of.
I don't quite know the extent of Miyamoto's hand in the game design, but I'd like to think that, after so many years, he has imparted his spirit upon some kinds of successors.
As a side note, I'm sorry, Disco, but I'm underwhelmed by your argument. To make your point stronger, you could have made the majority of your post about the specific things Miyamoto brings to the Mario franchises that nobody else can, things that make him irreplaceable. Instead, I found that the majority of your paragraphs either weren't persuasive at all or were slightly in support of the opposite position. I didn't expect this!
I don't quite know the extent of Miyamoto's hand in the game design, but I'd like to think that, after so many years, he has imparted his spirit upon some kinds of successors.
As a side note, I'm sorry, Disco, but I'm underwhelmed by your argument. To make your point stronger, you could have made the majority of your post about the specific things Miyamoto brings to the Mario franchises that nobody else can, things that make him irreplaceable. Instead, I found that the majority of your paragraphs either weren't persuasive at all or were slightly in support of the opposite position. I didn't expect this!
REXWOLF
You know there have always been people that have said "Mario will die down in the next couple of years", or "His time is over", and "There's nowhere left for Mario to go". Yet here are 25 years later, and the man is still pushing the limits of platforming to levels we never thought of 5 years ago, all while not forgetting his roots, and being able to bring the new into the old.
This is what separates Mario from any other old school character. He's constantly evolving, yet he never changes. If doing this for a quarter of a century isn't proof enough, then I think you're fooling yourself.
You know there have always been people that have said "Mario will die down in the next couple of years", or "His time is over", and "There's nowhere left for Mario to go". Yet here are 25 years later, and the man is still pushing the limits of platforming to levels we never thought of 5 years ago, all while not forgetting his roots, and being able to bring the new into the old.
This is what separates Mario from any other old school character. He's constantly evolving, yet he never changes. If doing this for a quarter of a century isn't proof enough, then I think you're fooling yourself.
REXWOLF
as much as i'd like for mario to go away and give my vote to sir awesome, i just don't see it happening.
i can explain why with one word: milk.
everytime a new call of duty comes out, people complain about activision milking the franchise. anytime a new kingdom hearts game is announced, people will cry about square milking a cash cow. people are already whining about bioware 'milking' mass effect while they're in the middle of a planned trilogy for jesus fucking christ's sake.
yet nintendo has put out over 200 mario games yet the general response to a new flagship mario game is still "YAAAAAAAYYY!!"
as much as i'd like for mario to go away and give my vote to sir awesome, i just don't see it happening.
i can explain why with one word: milk.
everytime a new call of duty comes out, people complain about activision milking the franchise. anytime a new kingdom hearts game is announced, people will cry about square milking a cash cow. people are already whining about bioware 'milking' mass effect while they're in the middle of a planned trilogy for jesus fucking christ's sake.
yet nintendo has put out over 200 mario games yet the general response to a new flagship mario game is still "YAAAAAAAYYY!!"
REXWOLF
People are still watching Scooby-Doo, a cartoon from the 60s. There are new episodes and DVD movies each year. If a show about a hippie stoner and his talking dog with a speech deficiency can still be relevant in the 21st century, I think Mario will be just fine.
People are still watching Scooby-Doo, a cartoon from the 60s. There are new episodes and DVD movies each year. If a show about a hippie stoner and his talking dog with a speech deficiency can still be relevant in the 21st century, I think Mario will be just fine.
REXWOLF
Man, points from both sides are equally compelling, but I put my vote down for Rexwolf for the same reasons mentioned before. If Mickey Mouse and Scooby-Doo are still rolling on today, why can't Mario? Some higher up in Nintendo after Miyamoto retires would have to screw up his formula worse than Sonic levels for him to fade away as an icon. Hopefully that will never happen.
Man, points from both sides are equally compelling, but I put my vote down for Rexwolf for the same reasons mentioned before. If Mickey Mouse and Scooby-Doo are still rolling on today, why can't Mario? Some higher up in Nintendo after Miyamoto retires would have to screw up his formula worse than Sonic levels for him to fade away as an icon. Hopefully that will never happen.
REXWOLF
Two reasons. As others have stated Mario will be culturally relevant for years and years to come. Sure, Miyamoto can't keep making games forever yet as it stands now he mainly oversees the production of many games. However, his role in games like Metroid Prime and DKCR were very, very minimal - MP did benefit from a suggestion (the visors) - but aside from that it was Retro's show.
And most of Mario Galaxy 2 was built from the numerous ideas the Mario Galaxy team had left over. Think about it - people that grew up playing Mario games are now the people making Nintendo's games. I think the spirit of Miyamoto will live on in these people in the development teams and we'll see his games carried on, along with new IPs.
Eiji Aonuma has been at the helm of Zelda for almost 13 years now, with Miyamoto simply around as an advisor, producer and otherwise a mouthpiece for the progress of the development of Zelda games. He seems to have some Zelda project in the works for the anniversary , but the OOT remake and Skyward Sword are mostly in Aonuma's lap.
So I think Mario's in capable hands, Nintendo's full of people with potential - we're just used to Miyamoto being the face of Nintendo.
Two reasons. As others have stated Mario will be culturally relevant for years and years to come. Sure, Miyamoto can't keep making games forever yet as it stands now he mainly oversees the production of many games. However, his role in games like Metroid Prime and DKCR were very, very minimal - MP did benefit from a suggestion (the visors) - but aside from that it was Retro's show.
And most of Mario Galaxy 2 was built from the numerous ideas the Mario Galaxy team had left over. Think about it - people that grew up playing Mario games are now the people making Nintendo's games. I think the spirit of Miyamoto will live on in these people in the development teams and we'll see his games carried on, along with new IPs.
Eiji Aonuma has been at the helm of Zelda for almost 13 years now, with Miyamoto simply around as an advisor, producer and otherwise a mouthpiece for the progress of the development of Zelda games. He seems to have some Zelda project in the works for the anniversary , but the OOT remake and Skyward Sword are mostly in Aonuma's lap.
So I think Mario's in capable hands, Nintendo's full of people with potential - we're just used to Miyamoto being the face of Nintendo.
MACHINA
There is a possibility that Nintendo would face another dip in hardware sales in the future, just like what happened with their N64 and the Gamecube. The reason that they are leading against Sony and Microsoft now is because of the ton of sales that the Wii brought with it, centering on the gimmick of motion controls that nongamers gobbled up and which the other two are trying to get a piece of with their respective offerings. With that said, Wii sales are down and third party software on it is selling pretty low, with only fitness games and Nintendo games selling by the millions. Also, people who bought the Wii are less likely to play it than owners of the HD consoles. If the lack of third party support continues and if there would be a lack of compelling "gimmick" of the next consoles by Nintendo moving forward 25 years from now, Nintendo might go the way of Sega and be a third party publisher because their games alone can't support a platform. The death of Nintendo hardware could lead to Mario's irrelevance to the world because who would buy a console for Mario alone? Also, those people being nostalgic about the Mario games of yore when they pick up the hypothetical Mario games 25 years from now might be shocked and repulsed by the discovery that their beloved mascot doesn't play the way they remembered him to play. Miyamoto would probably be dead by then and changes in gaming would alienate fans by them. It's like a Bomber Man fan from the 80's time travelling to the future only to discover Bomberman Zero.
There is a possibility that Nintendo would face another dip in hardware sales in the future, just like what happened with their N64 and the Gamecube. The reason that they are leading against Sony and Microsoft now is because of the ton of sales that the Wii brought with it, centering on the gimmick of motion controls that nongamers gobbled up and which the other two are trying to get a piece of with their respective offerings. With that said, Wii sales are down and third party software on it is selling pretty low, with only fitness games and Nintendo games selling by the millions. Also, people who bought the Wii are less likely to play it than owners of the HD consoles. If the lack of third party support continues and if there would be a lack of compelling "gimmick" of the next consoles by Nintendo moving forward 25 years from now, Nintendo might go the way of Sega and be a third party publisher because their games alone can't support a platform. The death of Nintendo hardware could lead to Mario's irrelevance to the world because who would buy a console for Mario alone? Also, those people being nostalgic about the Mario games of yore when they pick up the hypothetical Mario games 25 years from now might be shocked and repulsed by the discovery that their beloved mascot doesn't play the way they remembered him to play. Miyamoto would probably be dead by then and changes in gaming would alienate fans by them. It's like a Bomber Man fan from the 80's time travelling to the future only to discover Bomberman Zero.
MACHINA
There is a possibility that Nintendo would face another dip in hardware sales in the future, just like what happened with their N64 and the Gamecube. The reason that they are leading against Sony and Microsoft now is because of the ton of sales that the Wii brought with it, centering on the gimmick of motion controls that nongamers gobbled up and which the other two are trying to get a piece of with their respective offerings. With that said, Wii sales are down and third party software on it is selling pretty low, with only fitness games and Nintendo games selling by the millions. Also, people who bought the Wii are less likely to play it than owners of the HD consoles. If the lack of third party support continues and if there would be a lack of compelling "gimmick" of the next consoles by Nintendo moving forward 25 years from now, Nintendo might go the way of Sega and be a third party publisher because their games alone can't support a platform. The death of Nintendo hardware could lead to Mario's irrelevance to the world because who would buy a console for Mario alone? Also, those people being nostalgic about the Mario games of yore when they pick up the hypothetical Mario games 25 years from now might be shocked and repulsed by the discovery that their beloved mascot doesn't play the way they remembered him to play. Miyamoto would probably be dead by then and changes in gaming would alienate fans by them. It's like a Bomber Man fan from the 80's time travelling to the future only to discover Bomberman Zero.
There is a possibility that Nintendo would face another dip in hardware sales in the future, just like what happened with their N64 and the Gamecube. The reason that they are leading against Sony and Microsoft now is because of the ton of sales that the Wii brought with it, centering on the gimmick of motion controls that nongamers gobbled up and which the other two are trying to get a piece of with their respective offerings. With that said, Wii sales are down and third party software on it is selling pretty low, with only fitness games and Nintendo games selling by the millions. Also, people who bought the Wii are less likely to play it than owners of the HD consoles. If the lack of third party support continues and if there would be a lack of compelling "gimmick" of the next consoles by Nintendo moving forward 25 years from now, Nintendo might go the way of Sega and be a third party publisher because their games alone can't support a platform. The death of Nintendo hardware could lead to Mario's irrelevance to the world because who would buy a console for Mario alone? Also, those people being nostalgic about the Mario games of yore when they pick up the hypothetical Mario games 25 years from now might be shocked and repulsed by the discovery that their beloved mascot doesn't play the way they remembered him to play. Miyamoto would probably be dead by then and changes in gaming would alienate fans by them. It's like a Bomber Man fan from the 80's time travelling to the future only to discover Bomberman Zero.
REXWOLF- but only because of the comments supporting that point further (or maybe it was just the time it took to read them).
The cynical side of me scoffed at the idea of Mario continuing to be good once Miyamoto leaves, but it's not like they will just hand his position off to anybody. He/She will have been groomed for that job for years and Miyamoto will probably be some kind of consultant for BigN until he's dead.
And after that they will probably bring in his clone and have that mini-Miyamoto take over. Or maybe Robo-Miyamoto. It's japan. Anything can happen there. It's the future.
The cynical side of me scoffed at the idea of Mario continuing to be good once Miyamoto leaves, but it's not like they will just hand his position off to anybody. He/She will have been groomed for that job for years and Miyamoto will probably be some kind of consultant for BigN until he's dead.
And after that they will probably bring in his clone and have that mini-Miyamoto take over. Or maybe Robo-Miyamoto. It's japan. Anything can happen there. It's the future.
REXWOLF
Personally, Nintendo will keep on trucking and so will every other major character in their franchises and I don't think it has anything to do with Miyamoto.
I look at something like Zelda, a franchise that has many peaks and troughs in its run (more so than Mario), but it's still immensely popular when the experiments don't work out so well.
Mario is more than a videogame character; he's a fiugurehead for a corporation. Hell, he's an idol at most. Nintendo will always be aiming for a younger market, so as we get older and more cynical, the kids will still love him like they do with Mickey Mouse (a character I find the least likable in the Disney World). We've seen that they can put that character into anything, by either center staged performances like New Super Mario Bros. or silly cameos like Virtua Boy Tennis and he'll sell the product or at least give it more credence.
As long as the developers are still inspired by the old formula and Nintendo remember how to market as brilliantly as they do, Mario will be always appealing and reinvented for everyone. He's transcended journalistic criticism because of his mascot status.
Now, you damn kids get off my lawn.
Personally, Nintendo will keep on trucking and so will every other major character in their franchises and I don't think it has anything to do with Miyamoto.
I look at something like Zelda, a franchise that has many peaks and troughs in its run (more so than Mario), but it's still immensely popular when the experiments don't work out so well.
Mario is more than a videogame character; he's a fiugurehead for a corporation. Hell, he's an idol at most. Nintendo will always be aiming for a younger market, so as we get older and more cynical, the kids will still love him like they do with Mickey Mouse (a character I find the least likable in the Disney World). We've seen that they can put that character into anything, by either center staged performances like New Super Mario Bros. or silly cameos like Virtua Boy Tennis and he'll sell the product or at least give it more credence.
As long as the developers are still inspired by the old formula and Nintendo remember how to market as brilliantly as they do, Mario will be always appealing and reinvented for everyone. He's transcended journalistic criticism because of his mascot status.
Now, you damn kids get off my lawn.
REXWOLF
Occams made a point that, if the right person replaced Miyamoto, the series could be guided in the right direction to continue. I believe Miyamoto should have the choice of who succeeds him, rather than a whole boardroom. If the boardroom chooses, it is more likely to mess up the decision and jeopardise the series.
Also, CelicaCrazed made a couple of good points also, about reining back the frequency of Mario games to keep from being stale, and the fact that Mario Kart will continue regardless of platform change or developments in the platform games.
I was either thinking about and/or agreeing with these, so it is nice to be on the same wavelength. :O)
Occams made a point that, if the right person replaced Miyamoto, the series could be guided in the right direction to continue. I believe Miyamoto should have the choice of who succeeds him, rather than a whole boardroom. If the boardroom chooses, it is more likely to mess up the decision and jeopardise the series.
Also, CelicaCrazed made a couple of good points also, about reining back the frequency of Mario games to keep from being stale, and the fact that Mario Kart will continue regardless of platform change or developments in the platform games.
I was either thinking about and/or agreeing with these, so it is nice to be on the same wavelength. :O)
Awesome totally won the debate even if I don't necessarily agree with the outcome.
Mario is going to run out of steam, as the genre would have to reinvent the character for the audiences of 2036 and the mediums that follow. The question will ultimately be whether or not Mario will have a console to sell in 2036. It's getting harder and harder to support the Wii and the 3DS still isn't as progressive as it needs to be. Nintendo is running on gimmicks to skyrocket immediate sales, but the world is changing around them. Apple and Google have started to make roads in to the handheld market cutting market shares away from Nintendo. Microsoft and Sony are taking the older demographics that Nintendo doesn't have as good an appeal with.
That is happening right now.
Mario isn't the only thing that will need to reinvent. So will Nintendo. I don't believe that in 2036, Nintendo will be the same force that it has been for the past 25 years. Mario games probably will still be good, but Super? Most likely not.
The biggest factor is that this will be the 6th generation to play with Mario. They might have different tastes and different ideas of what games should be. He might be "old" by the time they get their hands on it.
I'd like to think that he could reinvent himself over and over like Spider-man did, but that isn't likely. The year 2036 might be akin to the Clone Wars or something for Mario.
Mario is going to run out of steam, as the genre would have to reinvent the character for the audiences of 2036 and the mediums that follow. The question will ultimately be whether or not Mario will have a console to sell in 2036. It's getting harder and harder to support the Wii and the 3DS still isn't as progressive as it needs to be. Nintendo is running on gimmicks to skyrocket immediate sales, but the world is changing around them. Apple and Google have started to make roads in to the handheld market cutting market shares away from Nintendo. Microsoft and Sony are taking the older demographics that Nintendo doesn't have as good an appeal with.
That is happening right now.
Mario isn't the only thing that will need to reinvent. So will Nintendo. I don't believe that in 2036, Nintendo will be the same force that it has been for the past 25 years. Mario games probably will still be good, but Super? Most likely not.
The biggest factor is that this will be the 6th generation to play with Mario. They might have different tastes and different ideas of what games should be. He might be "old" by the time they get their hands on it.
I'd like to think that he could reinvent himself over and over like Spider-man did, but that isn't likely. The year 2036 might be akin to the Clone Wars or something for Mario.
REXWOLF
I still replay the original SMB trilogy + Super Mario World once a year. These games are truly timeless, and I believe the plumber will be around as long as Nintendo is.
I still replay the original SMB trilogy + Super Mario World once a year. These games are truly timeless, and I believe the plumber will be around as long as Nintendo is.
REXWOLF
Haha! I love how even the comments are such a great read.
I to agree that Mario will stick around for a long time. I've enjoyed the hell out of every SINGLE Mario platforming game to date, and still do. When Nintendo creates a new Mario game, they keep everything that makes Mario games so appealing, but try to add something new and unique with every iteration and so far, they've knocked it out of the park (even with Sunshine IMO).
As much as I'd love to see Mario retire with Miyamoto, I have faith that he will pass the franchise onto someone more than capable.
Another great Debatoid guys!
Haha! I love how even the comments are such a great read.
I to agree that Mario will stick around for a long time. I've enjoyed the hell out of every SINGLE Mario platforming game to date, and still do. When Nintendo creates a new Mario game, they keep everything that makes Mario games so appealing, but try to add something new and unique with every iteration and so far, they've knocked it out of the park (even with Sunshine IMO).
As much as I'd love to see Mario retire with Miyamoto, I have faith that he will pass the franchise onto someone more than capable.
Another great Debatoid guys!
MACHINA
Its....hurtful to side with machina, but all good things do come to an end. As younger generations get more advanced technology, they are highly unlikley to even know let alone play past mario games, and eventually the series will run dry. I mean come on...mario...in space?
Its....hurtful to side with machina, but all good things do come to an end. As younger generations get more advanced technology, they are highly unlikley to even know let alone play past mario games, and eventually the series will run dry. I mean come on...mario...in space?
Rexwolf
... good arguments on both sides... but Mario brings to my mind Mickey Mouse... and Mickey is still alive and kicking many years after his original creator(s) are gone. I would like to believe Machina because I do think it best sometimes if game characters can leave while at the top of their game, but somehow it just seems that Mario has taken on a life of his own at this point, and like Mickey, it's too late to turn back.
... good arguments on both sides... but Mario brings to my mind Mickey Mouse... and Mickey is still alive and kicking many years after his original creator(s) are gone. I would like to believe Machina because I do think it best sometimes if game characters can leave while at the top of their game, but somehow it just seems that Mario has taken on a life of his own at this point, and like Mickey, it's too late to turn back.
MACHINA Mainly cause I see a few more obstacles than reasons for it doing both good in reviews and sales. Besides the Nintendo having to change as a company, the question about how the person that takes over Miyamoto will handle it, and a couple other ones, I think my biggest doubt comes from a generational point of view.
Maybe i'm generalizing too much, but from my experience at this time (based on cousins, nephews, friends and friend's kids), the younger the people are the less they care about Mario.
I remember seeing a lot of "well, that's the parents and grandma's buying power" comments regarding Wii sales, when they kept strong but the perception of the platform content in gaming media was a big "meh". What if this is true? What if a lot of current Mario game sales come from our parents and grandparents seeing in Mario the only recognizable gaming figure? What will happen when they pass on?
20 years ago it was easy to think there was only Nintendo, that there was only Mario, we had a cartoon and a tv show, there was even a cereal, we read and followed Nintendo Power (or the equivalent) now there's been Sony and Microsoft for a while, and the haloes and the call of duties, and angry birds, farmville, popcap games, and the internet lets you know about other systems and games you don't have. We grew up with Mario, and if you're a gamer around my age (24) or older then you most likely grew up with Mario, now kids and teens can be gamers, even "hardcore gamers", without ever touching a Mario game.
(Also, I see the comments are full of comparisons with Mickey, but is he currently critically acclaimed and a commercial success? There haven’t been any recent theater releases, most of his latest things are either straight to DVD or Disney channel only, there have been a couple of recent cartoon shows, but how big is their reach when they end up only on Disney channel, sometimes on abc? He’s still the mascot and runs around Disneyland saying hi to parents and kids, but recent Disney is more about Pixar than anything else.)
We saw the negative reaction the gaming media had with the 3ds opinion of the CNN "Expert" that grew up on Halo, but what if the halo kids turn out like that? If the FPS or any other genre (except platformer) stays as the popular one, and Microsoft and Sony still keep strong sales in their Mario less platforms, will Mario's appeal and popularity stay as strong with the new generations as it is with ours? What if the future reviewers don’t appreciate Mario and the gameplay mechanics that we hold dear just feel dated to them?
I think in 25 years Mario could still be around and be at least somewhat relevant (since he'll still be important to us and we'll still be buying the games that come out), but I also believe that at some point between now and then, after countless games, publicity campaigns, media coverage, comics, etc, when considering all of this, even if the game sells acceptable in comparison with other new releases, even if it still wows the veteran and younger video game critics, we'll be saying things like "It sold well, but not good enough for a Mario game", in fact, I think we might even be able to say that now if we look at the Mario Kart and NSMB (pushed by nostalgia?) sales vs the Mario galaxy ones.
Maybe i'm generalizing too much, but from my experience at this time (based on cousins, nephews, friends and friend's kids), the younger the people are the less they care about Mario.
I remember seeing a lot of "well, that's the parents and grandma's buying power" comments regarding Wii sales, when they kept strong but the perception of the platform content in gaming media was a big "meh". What if this is true? What if a lot of current Mario game sales come from our parents and grandparents seeing in Mario the only recognizable gaming figure? What will happen when they pass on?
20 years ago it was easy to think there was only Nintendo, that there was only Mario, we had a cartoon and a tv show, there was even a cereal, we read and followed Nintendo Power (or the equivalent) now there's been Sony and Microsoft for a while, and the haloes and the call of duties, and angry birds, farmville, popcap games, and the internet lets you know about other systems and games you don't have. We grew up with Mario, and if you're a gamer around my age (24) or older then you most likely grew up with Mario, now kids and teens can be gamers, even "hardcore gamers", without ever touching a Mario game.
(Also, I see the comments are full of comparisons with Mickey, but is he currently critically acclaimed and a commercial success? There haven’t been any recent theater releases, most of his latest things are either straight to DVD or Disney channel only, there have been a couple of recent cartoon shows, but how big is their reach when they end up only on Disney channel, sometimes on abc? He’s still the mascot and runs around Disneyland saying hi to parents and kids, but recent Disney is more about Pixar than anything else.)
We saw the negative reaction the gaming media had with the 3ds opinion of the CNN "Expert" that grew up on Halo, but what if the halo kids turn out like that? If the FPS or any other genre (except platformer) stays as the popular one, and Microsoft and Sony still keep strong sales in their Mario less platforms, will Mario's appeal and popularity stay as strong with the new generations as it is with ours? What if the future reviewers don’t appreciate Mario and the gameplay mechanics that we hold dear just feel dated to them?
I think in 25 years Mario could still be around and be at least somewhat relevant (since he'll still be important to us and we'll still be buying the games that come out), but I also believe that at some point between now and then, after countless games, publicity campaigns, media coverage, comics, etc, when considering all of this, even if the game sells acceptable in comparison with other new releases, even if it still wows the veteran and younger video game critics, we'll be saying things like "It sold well, but not good enough for a Mario game", in fact, I think we might even be able to say that now if we look at the Mario Kart and NSMB (pushed by nostalgia?) sales vs the Mario galaxy ones.
