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 living the dream since March 16, 2006
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When they can make a game where you blow someone away and learn something educational as well, then it will be fun.
But in all seriousness, I think its visible but obviously it requires more thought and care than usual. Take a look at a Nintendo's Brain Age and Brain age Acacdemy. Both of those are fun and try to keep the mind sharp.
I find it works better when you're playing a video game and learning something than when a video game tries to make you learn. If that makes any sense.
The Typing to the Dead.
Now that's how you make a good educational game.
I don't think games are the right place to push a formal sort of education. Prof Layton and the Brain Age games are pretty fun and pseudo-educational... but only for as long as Prof Layton's story lasts and I never do more than a week or so on BrainAge stuff. If we are looking to games to teach our children, I say that not only have our parenting skills failed completely, but so have our schools and other social institutions.
As a kid, my local library had a summer reading contest, where the more books you read, the cooler stuff you were eligible for (free pizza, new toys, etc). You had weekly meetings to meet and chat, turn in your reading sheets, get new books, etc and it was not only cool for the kids, but it was a way for parents to get involved. That would spill over into the school year for me (my mom was an english prof at a local CC), but didn't for most kids. That's the kind of way we need to be learning, as part of a group and with others... not completely alone in front of a screen.
Games are great, but I think they should be more of a pasttime/hobby than a device for learning.
Fallout 3 can be both goregasmic and educational. I didn't even know who the hell Button Gwinnett was until I played that "Stealing Independence" quest.
oh and f math blaster. My parents forced me to play that game many times to better my math skills, and to this day I still suck balls at math.
I think the problem with a lot of educational games is that most of the developers don't put in enough effort to fully flesh out a game. They know they can release a very basic game and parents will buy it up in the bargain bin for their children. You see it a lot lately with a ton of half-efforts trying to capitalize on the brain-training craze.
One of my favourite sort-of-educational game would have to be Trauma Centre. While it gets pretty fictional half way in, it still a pretty decent surgery simulator. Also, the DS seems to be perfect for these educational games for some reason.
Personally all the video games I played as a youngster were educational. I learned to speak, write and understand the English language by playing video games. It may sound kinda funny but especially games like Leisure suit Larry. The game didn't do anything without you typing in the right English words. I obviously didn't do what I was intended to do but I opened doors, flushed toilets, sprayed breath spray and drove to the casino to gamble and look, touch and kiss girls.
I agree wholeheartedly that the problem is in our mind.
I think kids (and even adults) can learn a lot from playing games like Afrika (trailer here). Mostly because it's not all about learning stuff. The core of the game is having fun so that way you don't reject it instantly.
Maybe another good example is God of War. It may sound weird but I know that a lot of people got interested in Greek Mythology by cutting off Medusa's heads and poking out the eyes of Cyclops.
To me this is a better way to learn things. I think it is better if kids get interested in something by themselves and enjoy it. Instead of forcing them to do mathematics in a video game. That is the whole thing. If you learn a kid to enjoy something he or she will do it by themselves. Not forcing them. It's basically the same as learning a young person to read. If you can get him or her interested in learning they will start to read by themselves. Leisure suit Larry made me enjoy reading English novels.
To summarize. The third type you mentioned works the best in my opinion. I think edutainment developers need to look at the matter from a different angle. It's not learning and having some fun in the process. It should be having fun and learning something in the process. Start out small and reach a higher goal. If you loose the kids in the beginning stages of the learning process it's really hard to get them back.
I could've gone deeper and explain some things a bit more but I think you get my overall thoughts. I hope it helps in the discussion.
Good luck with your classes!
I think it is easier to make a game teach you about social sciences and be a damn lot of fun. When its about some lateral courses as language or math, it is common that the games are just bashing the topic too much into you and becomes something that does not feel like a video game. However there is a little hope, you just do not have to make games so theoretical butt practical instead. If we look at LittleBigPlanet, it could become a hit on edutainment if they also added an option to do physical equations to see the effects. The game itself could teach you a lot of science and possibly chemistry on the new title athat includes water.
I think that the number one problem with edutainment games is the way that they integrate the education into the entertainment. I think too many times, the developers don't know how to make it fluid, so they just have you platforming in some half-assed mario rip-off until you touch a bad guy, and they make you solve a math problem before you can continue.
I don't think that the medium is a good choice for teaching topics in detail, (like math or grammar) because of this inevitable clumsiness, but I think it's probably the best medium there is for sparking interest or particularly for teaching about general history.
I love history, and I can honestly say that about 90% of the stuff that I remember is from TV and to a lesser extent video games. I think that visual media is by far the best way to learn history, and I think that video games can disperse a lot of information because they're so accessible.
I remember of an education game that had you traveling with a band and had you solving math problems on the road. It was awesome, but I forget what it's called. I think near the end of each level it allowed you to make or mess with the game's music...or something.
It was good, though. I wish I could remember the name.
Two words: Number Munchers
I remember playing Math Blaster as a kid. I can't remember hating it and found it at least somewhat enjoyable. But I feel like the experience is pretty skin deep. It may help you improve your arithmetic, but not much else. I could not imagine going back to it now and playing it now that I've developed those skills, and that's where the game fails. Conversely, I go back and play things like Super Mario Brothers 1 all the time, because there is still value there after the learning (memorization, hand-eye coordination, rhythm even) has been done. Maybe if I really wanted to brush up on my arithmetic speed...
The last two games that I felt expanded my brain and made me think about things are Metroid Prime and Twilight Princess, both GCN versions, which I played on the Wii in the past year. These are games that made me think. A lot of games that I enjoy involve shutting off the mind and merely acting on instinct and reflexes (Ikaruga, Killzone 2 and Bit Trip come to mind). However, in TP and Prime, these titles actively engaged me and I had to problem solve in order to progress. Those "Eureka" moments when you figure out a complex puzzle are so rewarding as well.
In a way I feel like it takes a more significant educational ability to play Zelda, than Math Blaster. Look at standardized testing: the Math Blaster might help you on certain portions of the exam that pertain to that subject matter, but the problem solving, being able to think about a complex problem and deducing the answer based upon various clues, and thinking outside of the box could help you with the entire test.
Great response everyone. I wasn't sure the cblogs would be the best place to post this, thanks for proving me wrong. Dtoid rocks.
@Holmes
You know, I have so much fun playing TotD that I hardly even consider it Edutainment software, but I guess it really is. So there's one example of how to do it right.
@Mr Sadistic
I never considered FO3 but yes, I can see what you mean. There is a lot of historical information in that game for you to find.
And don't worry, my parents bought me so many math based video games as a kid and I still can't do long division. I am teh sucks at math.
@Takeshi
That's incredible that you learned the English language that way. I'm sure it will be an interesting discussion point in class. I agree that it is totally important to have a fun game before you add the learning in. People aren't going to stick around just to learn something, they have to be having fun too.
I guess it's kind of like Discovery Channel specials. Sure you're learning something, but they make it entertaining first, so that you'll want to stick around.
While to me, the best way for a game to be educational is to enforce puzzles that require the player to really use logic and combine skills learned earlier in the game, I also agree with Takeshi in that it's better for a game to present a subject in an interesting way, so that the player will feel a craving to learn more about the game's inspiration.
I personally tend to like "games with educational qualities" rather than education presented in a game format.
I also think that many games hold educational values that are beyond the usual realm of schooling. When people get involved in clans for online gaming it can teach qualities like teamwork, decision making, organization, getting along with others - all viable skills that translate to everyday life. A lot of games involve puzzles... often involving basic science or physics principles. Portal was a game that made people think about a set of physics in a unique manner. I think that games can uniquely position a player to explore gender and prejudice issues. Because of the involved active manner of games (rather than passive teaching) games can be very educational. I bought my nephews Zoo Tycoon when they were young and they not only learned about animals, but also some basic business principles.
Great blog by the way!!!
(voted up... can't yet bring myself to say "fapped"... just seems well, unladylike! LOL!)
@Daedhead
Exactly! I'm still learning stuff today because of great TV shows. QI on the BBC for instance or Stephen Fry in America.
Thinking back now, Leisure Suit Larry made me also love dictionaries. Looking up words while playing the game. And because of the game mechanics it was more than only looking it up. First I had to think about what I wanted the character to do. Then I had to translate it with the help of my dictionary. If the word I used wasn't programmed in the game I had to do it again. So a bit of a game in a game really. Oh how I love dictionaries and similar books. I own so many dictionaries right now, it's a bit ridiculous. I went from reading Larry to Roald Dahl. Funny how things turn out. I wonder what would've happened if my parents tried to force me to read before playing games.
@Elsa
Great points! I didn't even go that far but yeah, Zoo Tycoon, Theme Hospital Civilization etc. are great examples.
Inspiration is the key.
@sylphx
Fuck yeah Number Munchers! I learned all the prime numbers through that game without even knowing what the hell a prime number was. Plus it was fun too, in a sudo-pacman sort of way.
Also, I learned all my US geography from a game called Swamp Gas
Thanks again for the comments everyone. These comments are really making me realize that almost every game is "educational" in some sense of the word.
@PossumWrangler
I agree, video games have a great ability to put you in certain roles, hence they could be great for teaching about historical events. The problem here is that most historical events (besides war) don't fit well into video games. Oregon Trail is a good example of a non war historical game but that game wasn't very historically accurate. Still, the potential is there.
@Sylphx
YES! I totally forgot about that game until you mentioned it, but yeah, that was a lot of fun. What was it about that game that made it so fun, I wonder?
@Cadtalfryn
That's a interesting comparison you make at the end there. Zelda games do encourage the development of your problem solving skills and I agree, that would probably help you more in life than the arithmetic skills gained from Math Blaster.
Also, I appreciate the point you made about the re-playability of edutainment games. That's something I had not considered.
@Elsa
Another great point. The physics in modern games is really incredible. You've reminded me of how easy it was for me to learn how to drive. My father was the one who taught me and he says he thinks all the time I spent with Gran Turismo as a teenager helped me to understand how a real car handles.
Also, yeah it's a bit weird being like "I totally fapped Yoj1mbo's blog yesterday." lol
Age of Empire II told me more about the Middle Age than any of my History classes. Yes they can be.
Vexed: That sounds eerily familiar, I think I played that. But I too fail to think of its name.
Anyways, edutainment in general fails for two fundamental reasons. The obvious one having been mentioned in the blog post: The developers fail to focus much attention on FUN, thus, the games aren't fun, thus people don't want the game, thus people don't buy the game, thus the developer makes less money, etc.
The second reason, while probably still obvious, may not come to mind as soon. Video games, in general, are about escaping. Had a rough day? Relax, sit down, play some Final Fantasy. For a few hours, you don't have to care about your boss, or homework, or whatever. By connecting a game to a real life learning process, you remove the escapism. Suddenly, the calculus homework you tried to forget is staring you in the face.
Forget for a moment that someone in a calculus class probably has no reason to bother with any sort of educational game, and instead focus more on the point: When gaming becomes work; when gaming becomes an extension of life, as opposed to an abstraction of it, we no longer get that escape. What was fun is now, of all things, school.
In short, learning is real. Games aren't. We like our games to not be real. Learning + Games = Problem.
Only by removing the ties to reality can this work. Medal of Honor may follow the same series of events as WWII did, but the two are hardly comparable experiences. Medal of Honor still provides an escape, because it's not really based in reality.
The main draw is the exaggerated action, not the historic perspective. History is featured, even if it's a bit tacked on. It's a way to frame the action.
Learning games are first and foremost about learning. The Game part of it is tacked on. It's a way to frame the learning.
Ideally, one could balance the two, but so far, nobody has. It looks like nobody ever will.
My not-so-focused wall-o-text probably doesn't answer many questions, but I hope it at least serves as a decent commentary.
@Roager
Great point about escapism. It's hard to escape if the game is forcing you to focus on the skills you're bad at in real life.
And who knows, some day, somebody could figure out the perfect way to marry games and learning. It could be somebody in my class. It could be me! You never know.
I learned a decent amount of 12th century history from Assassin's Creed. There's a decent amount of WW2 history to learn from certain strategy and even FPS games with that setting. MGS taught me about firearms and muscle relaxing drugs...
I can say that education games had a huge impact on my development. Because while everyone else fawns over Samus or Tifa I can honestly say that I'd fuck Mavis Beacon so hard that the only thing she'd be able to type afterward is "O O O O O."
Thanks Shipero, I'll be sure to bring that point up in class on tuesday. lmao
mathblaster was amazing and i want to play it now
yeah but this place has better info on games i want to know about gamespy super annoying