surf dtoid with 
Rising (10+)
People you follow
send message
follow
followers
Goyer wasn't the only writer on DKR, and anything he does on his own is pretty hackneyed and mediocre at best. He's just some dopey comic book writer that happened to have some of his screenplays made into films by very talented people.
I don't see it as anything to get upset over because it's just the marketing department trying to generate publicity. I mean, I'm glad other people are vocalizing their dissent, because it is justified. Bullshit needs to be called out when it happens, but I doubt Activision nor Goyer have some kind of agenda they're trying to push.
Would it matter as much to people if the game wasn't a AAA title?
I don't see it as anything to get upset over because it's just the marketing department trying to generate publicity. I mean, I'm glad other people are vocalizing their dissent, because it is justified. Bullshit needs to be called out when it happens, but I doubt Activision nor Goyer have some kind of agenda they're trying to push.
Would it matter as much to people if the game wasn't a AAA title?
So you're not going to buy a game because it questions the 99% movement, but it's ok to buy a game that demonizes entire Countries, religions or the concept of corporations?
So it's not ok to question the movement from an oblique angle... to think that some of the people involved in these types of movements don't know/care what they are protesting or that some might even have less altruistic motives for participating?
The 99% protests in the U.S. led to a world wide movement. We had a camp in near our city hall for many months. Most of the protestors were students... who gave up after a month. Those that remained were primarily the homeless, the addicted and the nutcases. When asked on TV what they were protesting, many were honest enough to say that they didn't even know. They were there for the food or the sense of belonging to something.
The success of those protests spawned other protests... like the Montreal student riots. Do you know what those students were protesting??... they were protesting because they have the lowest tuition rates in ALL of North America (heavily subsidized by the taxpayer), and the rates were going to have to be raised by a small amount to more closely align with tuition rates across the Country. They were still going to be low (going from $2168 to $3793 over 5 years) and bursaries and other financial offsets were to be added... but the students flatly rejected any raise.
... the protests were joined (and eventually led) by many of the larger unions groups... and are now primarily anti-government union organized protests... costing millions of dollars in damages to property, the economy and even the education of the students because most aren't even attending school in protest.
So a game that questions large mass protests... that can possibly be hijacked by other interests because some of the people that attend protests are "sheeple" and can easily be led is wrong? It's wrong to question something you believe in and look at this cultural trend with an eye to fantasy and possibility... but it's just fine to demonize corporations or Countries? Unions are never evil... the people at the top of unions don't make outrageous salaries, they don't push for money and benefits that can eventually break corporations... the same as corporations push for money and benefits for their "rich' shareholders (like me)... and nobody should question unions or people driven movements because they can't be evil??
I think you should buy the game, and you should buy it new. Games if they are to show maturity should question things we believe in.
Hell... I'm still waiting for my game about the Afghan farmer forced into Al Qaeda who is fighting against the American invaders who seek to kill his religion, his culture and his land.
... but that game could never be made.
This one can. There are issues... but talk to 20 different people at one of those protests and you'll get 20 different responses as to what the issue is and how to fix it. I can certainly see the literary possibilities in this and apparently Activision did as well. It's not propoganda, it's fiction... but if it evokes a little thought on the basis for the fiction, then I don't really see a problem with that.
So it's not ok to question the movement from an oblique angle... to think that some of the people involved in these types of movements don't know/care what they are protesting or that some might even have less altruistic motives for participating?
The 99% protests in the U.S. led to a world wide movement. We had a camp in near our city hall for many months. Most of the protestors were students... who gave up after a month. Those that remained were primarily the homeless, the addicted and the nutcases. When asked on TV what they were protesting, many were honest enough to say that they didn't even know. They were there for the food or the sense of belonging to something.
The success of those protests spawned other protests... like the Montreal student riots. Do you know what those students were protesting??... they were protesting because they have the lowest tuition rates in ALL of North America (heavily subsidized by the taxpayer), and the rates were going to have to be raised by a small amount to more closely align with tuition rates across the Country. They were still going to be low (going from $2168 to $3793 over 5 years) and bursaries and other financial offsets were to be added... but the students flatly rejected any raise.
... the protests were joined (and eventually led) by many of the larger unions groups... and are now primarily anti-government union organized protests... costing millions of dollars in damages to property, the economy and even the education of the students because most aren't even attending school in protest.
So a game that questions large mass protests... that can possibly be hijacked by other interests because some of the people that attend protests are "sheeple" and can easily be led is wrong? It's wrong to question something you believe in and look at this cultural trend with an eye to fantasy and possibility... but it's just fine to demonize corporations or Countries? Unions are never evil... the people at the top of unions don't make outrageous salaries, they don't push for money and benefits that can eventually break corporations... the same as corporations push for money and benefits for their "rich' shareholders (like me)... and nobody should question unions or people driven movements because they can't be evil??
I think you should buy the game, and you should buy it new. Games if they are to show maturity should question things we believe in.
Hell... I'm still waiting for my game about the Afghan farmer forced into Al Qaeda who is fighting against the American invaders who seek to kill his religion, his culture and his land.
... but that game could never be made.
This one can. There are issues... but talk to 20 different people at one of those protests and you'll get 20 different responses as to what the issue is and how to fix it. I can certainly see the literary possibilities in this and apparently Activision did as well. It's not propoganda, it's fiction... but if it evokes a little thought on the basis for the fiction, then I don't really see a problem with that.
... for reference, news stories like this don't evoke literary thoughts and possibilities?
"“We don’t have one specific policy goal. We are creating the vehicle to move mountains, but we don’t have to choose a specific mountain to move.”
http://www.csmonitor.com/Business/2011/1005/Occupy-Wall-Street-Unions-join-protests.-Will-message-change
You honestly think that this game is propoganda but that the previous messages you've been fed of all corporations being evil, or certain countries being evil isn't propoganda? It's all propoganda... but it's good to expose yourself to various sides and to look at even things you believe in with a critical eye.
(and for the record, I personally tend to look at both the unions and the corporations as equally evil! LOL!)
"“We don’t have one specific policy goal. We are creating the vehicle to move mountains, but we don’t have to choose a specific mountain to move.”
http://www.csmonitor.com/Business/2011/1005/Occupy-Wall-Street-Unions-join-protests.-Will-message-change
You honestly think that this game is propoganda but that the previous messages you've been fed of all corporations being evil, or certain countries being evil isn't propoganda? It's all propoganda... but it's good to expose yourself to various sides and to look at even things you believe in with a critical eye.
(and for the record, I personally tend to look at both the unions and the corporations as equally evil! LOL!)
What I find most offensive about the 99% rhetoric is this: You seriously believe that you are so heavily economically discriminated against that you have a right to claim a sort of spiritual brotherhood with people who are actually economically oppressed?
I guarantee you, to the real poor of this world, the inhabitants of third-world nations and the vast lower classes of second-world nations, the Occcupy movement would look facile at best.
And if you knew anything about the history behind Communist revolutions, you'd know that discontented masses are often used as a weapon by whatever group desires power.
I guarantee you, to the real poor of this world, the inhabitants of third-world nations and the vast lower classes of second-world nations, the Occcupy movement would look facile at best.
And if you knew anything about the history behind Communist revolutions, you'd know that discontented masses are often used as a weapon by whatever group desires power.
Yeah, I don't see how doing this is bad on Activisions part. Bioshock, Bioshock Infinite and Deus Ex Human Revolution explore these themes - but they do it EQUALLY. The Founders and the Vox Populi are equally corrupt in Bioshock, just as are Taggart and Sarif's machinations in DXHR. And those two guys were just puppets for a real shadow conspiracy.
TDKR was in production well before Occupy took root, so whatever you're hoping to read into it you're just going to see corruption on both sides leading to it. That and it ties in heavily to what happened in the other two movies.
TDKR was in production well before Occupy took root, so whatever you're hoping to read into it you're just going to see corruption on both sides leading to it. That and it ties in heavily to what happened in the other two movies.
Elsa - The 99% movement did have issues, mainly of a certain aimlessness as you have described, and I was never part of that whole movement because there was never a clear directive or goal. I did, however, support the fact that people were questioning wealth and income disparity in our country, especially since the movement occurred during the huge Enron blowout and it cast a critical eye and how wealth is being distributed in our country, and how corporate America does have some pretty nasty abuses of power.
The debate about Unions vs. Corporations is another very complicated beast, and I certainly have no resolute answers about either. I've seen plenty of corruption with both, so I can't speak to that aspect directly. Hell, the union that runs our public transit in SF is corrupt as all hell, and it really doesn't make a great argument for unions in general.
This trailer bothers me moreso because it's suggesting that the actual 99% - I.e. pretty much everyone who isn't Bobby Kotick et al. - are stupid enough to lend their support behind an obvious terrorist, because they're not wealthy so obviously they're angry enough to do the bidding of someone clearly Anti-American. That's both patronizing and disingenuous, and besides the whole 99% movement is more or less over, so they're just glomming onto something in our history that occurred - not because it was a possible terrorist movement - but because people can actually be intelligent enough to question the status quo when the wealthy get wealthier through corrupt means while everyone else is led by the hand into bankruptcy, foreclosure, etc.
@Caliban - The 99% movement was not to demand Communism in this country, but with an attitude like that you come off as a tea partier so I'm not sure I should open that debate with you. There may have been people who demanded certain socialist goals, but that was a select few and others were simply out to question wealth disparity, etc. The movement's aimlessness occurred particularly because we are a diverse country with a diverse set of issues and no one has a clear answer to any of these issues. If anything, the movement pointed out that we're certainly not a Communist country, easily led by one 'clear voice" among the crowd telling us we should blow shit up. Also, Caliban, I think you need to wake up a little if you think the "real poor" of this world only exist in Third World Countries/ Second World nations. Besides, at this point in history we're barely a First World power anymore. The Third World Country argument is ridiculous, it's like getting naked and putting a blindfold on and telling me that there are people who are "more naked" than you.
@The Silent Protaganist - Like I said, the story is a familiar trope, and even moreso in war games as wars are all about leading a mass into action for specific directives. This crosses the line in my opinion because it's a direct attack on a movement that rightfully happened at a time that wealth disparity needed a critical look. It's simply disingenuous, especially in the terms of the publisher releasing the game.
The game itself may be a pretty damn good one, but I don't wish to support giving money to Activision because if anything, they're one of the corporations that the 99% movement would have really cast a critical eye on, as they have a ton of shady and exploitative business practices and a huge disdain for the 'common class' as clearly detailed by their history and Kotick's behavior and statements in the past.
The debate about Unions vs. Corporations is another very complicated beast, and I certainly have no resolute answers about either. I've seen plenty of corruption with both, so I can't speak to that aspect directly. Hell, the union that runs our public transit in SF is corrupt as all hell, and it really doesn't make a great argument for unions in general.
This trailer bothers me moreso because it's suggesting that the actual 99% - I.e. pretty much everyone who isn't Bobby Kotick et al. - are stupid enough to lend their support behind an obvious terrorist, because they're not wealthy so obviously they're angry enough to do the bidding of someone clearly Anti-American. That's both patronizing and disingenuous, and besides the whole 99% movement is more or less over, so they're just glomming onto something in our history that occurred - not because it was a possible terrorist movement - but because people can actually be intelligent enough to question the status quo when the wealthy get wealthier through corrupt means while everyone else is led by the hand into bankruptcy, foreclosure, etc.
@Caliban - The 99% movement was not to demand Communism in this country, but with an attitude like that you come off as a tea partier so I'm not sure I should open that debate with you. There may have been people who demanded certain socialist goals, but that was a select few and others were simply out to question wealth disparity, etc. The movement's aimlessness occurred particularly because we are a diverse country with a diverse set of issues and no one has a clear answer to any of these issues. If anything, the movement pointed out that we're certainly not a Communist country, easily led by one 'clear voice" among the crowd telling us we should blow shit up. Also, Caliban, I think you need to wake up a little if you think the "real poor" of this world only exist in Third World Countries/ Second World nations. Besides, at this point in history we're barely a First World power anymore. The Third World Country argument is ridiculous, it's like getting naked and putting a blindfold on and telling me that there are people who are "more naked" than you.
@The Silent Protaganist - Like I said, the story is a familiar trope, and even moreso in war games as wars are all about leading a mass into action for specific directives. This crosses the line in my opinion because it's a direct attack on a movement that rightfully happened at a time that wealth disparity needed a critical look. It's simply disingenuous, especially in the terms of the publisher releasing the game.
The game itself may be a pretty damn good one, but I don't wish to support giving money to Activision because if anything, they're one of the corporations that the 99% movement would have really cast a critical eye on, as they have a ton of shady and exploitative business practices and a huge disdain for the 'common class' as clearly detailed by their history and Kotick's behavior and statements in the past.
And yeah, I know the Movement is still going on and its goals have certainly changed, but it is no longer really a Mass movement in the way it started, and that's mainly because even now, no one has offered an aim or goal that the bulk of us will so willingly get behind, and I doubt a terrorist with even the best rhetoric would actually stir up the masses, and of they did - we'd have a bigger issue on our hands in the terms of a complete failure of Capitalism/Democracy anyhow.
I would like to see where they plan to take this story, but once again - the fact that Activision is publishing the game makes any sort of "clear eyed questioning" seem like a huge load of bullshit.
I would like to see where they plan to take this story, but once again - the fact that Activision is publishing the game makes any sort of "clear eyed questioning" seem like a huge load of bullshit.
@Casey... but as the basis for fiction, can you not admit that it makes for something different and possibly exciting. Many of the "opponents" in this type of fictional war story could be simply misguided people thinking they are supporting a movement that has been co-opted by another movement. Additionally, yes true terrorists would have to be in there, for the sake of pew pew... but it makes a nice change where the bad guys were so clearly labeled "bad guys" and possibly we have to deal with situations involving violent but innocent civilians.
It can all be very loosely based in real life but personally I think this new concept of "the people" as the enemy can make for some interesting situations in a game. Remember that Activision is making a game first... it's unlikely that they are actually looking at any form of political commentary. They've certainly never been shy before about having corporate villains willing to have war for the sake of profit - so I don't see an issue with them now exploring the possibilities of large masses of people with no real leadership and the destruction and chaos that could possibly ensue if someone was able to direct or establish some form of control over that restless undirected energy.
Do you honestly have no interest in seeing this type of fiction being explored?
It can all be very loosely based in real life but personally I think this new concept of "the people" as the enemy can make for some interesting situations in a game. Remember that Activision is making a game first... it's unlikely that they are actually looking at any form of political commentary. They've certainly never been shy before about having corporate villains willing to have war for the sake of profit - so I don't see an issue with them now exploring the possibilities of large masses of people with no real leadership and the destruction and chaos that could possibly ensue if someone was able to direct or establish some form of control over that restless undirected energy.
Do you honestly have no interest in seeing this type of fiction being explored?
@Elsa - Yeah, I fully support examining any intriguing plot line - and I know Activision is generally a game publisher first, but if any other publisher supported this game I'd be a lot more interested in what they have to say and how they have to say it.
Besides. It has always rubbed me the wrong way when developers aren't creative enough to explore these elements in an entirely factionalized world and instead base it on real world developments. It's lazy and insincere, and in this case comes of off as a direct attack against "Angry, Disenfranchised Americans" who have had plenty of reasons to be angry but not enough hatred for our country to incite or support terrorism.
How the game plays out remains to be seen too. But I still don't plan to buy it new because I don't want to support a company releasing a game that basically suggests that someone like me is the enemy of the state because I'm an enemy of the company itself.
Of course, I don't wish to support Game Stop either, which is why I'll be purchasing it from Gamefly...who I support just a bit more for their consumer friendly deals.
Besides. It has always rubbed me the wrong way when developers aren't creative enough to explore these elements in an entirely factionalized world and instead base it on real world developments. It's lazy and insincere, and in this case comes of off as a direct attack against "Angry, Disenfranchised Americans" who have had plenty of reasons to be angry but not enough hatred for our country to incite or support terrorism.
How the game plays out remains to be seen too. But I still don't plan to buy it new because I don't want to support a company releasing a game that basically suggests that someone like me is the enemy of the state because I'm an enemy of the company itself.
Of course, I don't wish to support Game Stop either, which is why I'll be purchasing it from Gamefly...who I support just a bit more for their consumer friendly deals.
I never claimed that Occupy was Communist. The point I was making was history shows discontented masses are used as tools before they achieve anything on their own.
The majority of people who make up Occupy Wall Street are educated white males. Educated white males are the most privileged group on Earth, and I say that as an educated white male.
I am not attacking Occupy for claiming they are poor. If people want to do so, fine. But by saying "we are the 99%", you not only draw people into your rhetoric who don't want to be associated with it, you also disguise the fact that there is a huge income gap between the middle class of America and, say, a child labourer in China.
To be honest, the whole impression I get from the recent outcry about the supposed demonizing of the "99%" is that entitled white people are horrified that they too can be made out to be bad guys. They don't have a problem when anyone else's political views are shown as villainous by fiction. We've seen, in mass media, the outright demonization of everything from communism to capitalism to feminism. Everything gets a turn, because creators are a diverse set of people with very different views on the world around them.
The majority of people who make up Occupy Wall Street are educated white males. Educated white males are the most privileged group on Earth, and I say that as an educated white male.
I am not attacking Occupy for claiming they are poor. If people want to do so, fine. But by saying "we are the 99%", you not only draw people into your rhetoric who don't want to be associated with it, you also disguise the fact that there is a huge income gap between the middle class of America and, say, a child labourer in China.
To be honest, the whole impression I get from the recent outcry about the supposed demonizing of the "99%" is that entitled white people are horrified that they too can be made out to be bad guys. They don't have a problem when anyone else's political views are shown as villainous by fiction. We've seen, in mass media, the outright demonization of everything from communism to capitalism to feminism. Everything gets a turn, because creators are a diverse set of people with very different views on the world around them.
I haven't been following the game at all yet but it does seem like an interesting twist. In many ways people are being manipulated against each other. We've seen destructive riots sparked by emotions, whether it's following hockey playoff losses, G8/20 summits or social unrest (I'm thinking of the ones in England last summer). The vast majority of the people simply fall victim to mob mentality. The rise of social media and mobile devices have led to the real formation of the panopticon without government intervention. Our egos have led us to record and share so much of our lives that there's not much we can get away with. Someone on reddit was able to piece together a block party shooting in Toronto thru twitter alone and police have had to issue warnings that if a shooting is taking place don't stick around taking pictures after a shoot out happened at a mall. Athletes, celebrities and public workers probably know it best that they can't make any slips without their gaffes shared around the world. Even everything I see and hear about the US is how the country is dividing itself along party lines. Some of the people that get retweeted in my feed scare me in how single-tracked and unbending their mindset can be.
Basically all I'm trying to say is that we the 99% can definitely be looked at with a critical eye. Some of the best stories challenge your beliefs and lead to introspection. But yeah, marketing. Hard to tell how close the game will be to the message they're pushing it until it hits shelves.
Basically all I'm trying to say is that we the 99% can definitely be looked at with a critical eye. Some of the best stories challenge your beliefs and lead to introspection. But yeah, marketing. Hard to tell how close the game will be to the message they're pushing it until it hits shelves.
>Granted, I haven't yet seen The Dark Knight Rises and I hear it's an excellent film, but I'm not a huge fan of this sudden turn to make it seem like the discontent masses are potential weapons for any terrorist to funnel their specified rage at their desired target.
Highlight for spoiler
That's really not a thing that happens.
Also, not to be snarky or anything, but your blog makes me want to play Black Ops 2. Just for the story. I think it will do a good job of reflecting the current popular consciousness without pushing a specific agenda. I might even get Xbox Gold again just to see how the community develops.
Highlight for spoiler
That's really not a thing that happens.
Also, not to be snarky or anything, but your blog makes me want to play Black Ops 2. Just for the story. I think it will do a good job of reflecting the current popular consciousness without pushing a specific agenda. I might even get Xbox Gold again just to see how the community develops.
>Granted, I haven't yet seen The Dark Knight Rises and I hear it's an excellent film, but I'm not a huge fan of this sudden turn to make it seem like the discontent masses are potential weapons for any terrorist to funnel their specified rage at their desired target.
Highlight for spoiler
That's really not a thing that happens.
Also, not to be snarky or anything, but your blog makes me want to play Black Ops 2. Just for the story. I think it will do a good job of reflecting the current popular consciousness without pushing a specific agenda. I might even get Xbox Gold again just to see how the community develops.
Highlight for spoiler
That's really not a thing that happens.
Also, not to be snarky or anything, but your blog makes me want to play Black Ops 2. Just for the story. I think it will do a good job of reflecting the current popular consciousness without pushing a specific agenda. I might even get Xbox Gold again just to see how the community develops.
I meant fictionalized world earlier... Derp.
Anyhow,
@ Caliban - Well, the Occupy movement might be filled with a larger constituency of priveliged white males now than it was when it started, but the point is that the "middle class" has been at a sharp decline. And corporate/bank bailouts have pretty much contributed greatly to the bankruptcy of our whole economy. Also, just because the phrase "the 99%" has such an attachment to the movement, it doesn't change the fact that if you're not in the 1% income bracket, you're undoubtedly part of it. And the huge gap of disparity between proves that the whole American Dream is a fictionalized idea that isn't obtainable by any American citizen - even less so in this day an age when corporations have so much power that they drown out most entrepreneurship through sheer brute legal force.
@Celica - I definitely agree with you, but I feel that if the 99% can be angered to the point of being riotous, corporations with business practices and a general attitude of "screw the consumer" like Activision are contributing to that kind of unrest. Granted, Activision is a game company and thus you won't see that sort of rage erupt from their dealings, but I feel like their ethos is representative of corrupt Corporate America as a whole. There is a certain point where a business crosses an ethical line and is no longer pro consumer, and this becomes damaging to Capitalism as an ideology. Activision really were one of the big companies who started this sort of trend in the gaming world.
@Sir Legendhead - As I never said that I refuse to play the game outright, I am actually really still interested in where the story leads, especially since it seems more open-ended and will give you choices as to how the story will progress. The marketing combined with Activision's past attitude about gamers just makes them seem really full of themselves, and as though they view us as the enemy, not as the ones supporting their bloated paychecks with micro transactions et al.
Anyhow,
@ Caliban - Well, the Occupy movement might be filled with a larger constituency of priveliged white males now than it was when it started, but the point is that the "middle class" has been at a sharp decline. And corporate/bank bailouts have pretty much contributed greatly to the bankruptcy of our whole economy. Also, just because the phrase "the 99%" has such an attachment to the movement, it doesn't change the fact that if you're not in the 1% income bracket, you're undoubtedly part of it. And the huge gap of disparity between proves that the whole American Dream is a fictionalized idea that isn't obtainable by any American citizen - even less so in this day an age when corporations have so much power that they drown out most entrepreneurship through sheer brute legal force.
@Celica - I definitely agree with you, but I feel that if the 99% can be angered to the point of being riotous, corporations with business practices and a general attitude of "screw the consumer" like Activision are contributing to that kind of unrest. Granted, Activision is a game company and thus you won't see that sort of rage erupt from their dealings, but I feel like their ethos is representative of corrupt Corporate America as a whole. There is a certain point where a business crosses an ethical line and is no longer pro consumer, and this becomes damaging to Capitalism as an ideology. Activision really were one of the big companies who started this sort of trend in the gaming world.
@Sir Legendhead - As I never said that I refuse to play the game outright, I am actually really still interested in where the story leads, especially since it seems more open-ended and will give you choices as to how the story will progress. The marketing combined with Activision's past attitude about gamers just makes them seem really full of themselves, and as though they view us as the enemy, not as the ones supporting their bloated paychecks with micro transactions et al.
louis vuitton taschen lv online louis vuitton vuitton shops LV handtaschen lv handtaschen ugg boots sale ugg boots gunstig ugg boots g¨¹nstig ugg sale ugg boots ugg online shop ugg boots ugg deutschland ugg boots sale ugg billig ugg boots g¨¹nstig
