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Have an Kickstarter games actually been released to date? I'm still skeptical of this working in the long run and not just becoming an easy outlet for scams.
... it was interesting that while everyone else seemed thrilled that Double Fine was going the Kickstarter route, there were a few dissenting voices. I can't remember who wrote it, but someone here did an excellent blog predicting that more well-known developers would start using Kickstarter and that the concept would change from being more for Indie devs to a different sort of financial venue.
Turns out they were right, and much of what they predicted seems to have happened.
(and dammit... I wish I could track down that blog and give credit!)
Turns out they were right, and much of what they predicted seems to have happened.
(and dammit... I wish I could track down that blog and give credit!)
@Celica
I was thinking the same thing. If you read Kickstarter's TOS closely, you'll see that they has to approve each project (which I refer to as "appeasing the Kickstarter Gods").
But what's stopping someone from displaying a [quality] fake business plan, with early CGI model work, and some early design sketches, then taking the Kickstarter money and running away with it (or claiming you couldn't make budget)?
What if everyone started their games via Kickstarter? Would demand get so heavy that they would have to hire an entirely new "acceptance" staff? Would someone just make a "new" Kickstarter website themselves?
I too am weary of the over-saturation of every single company, whether it's already established or not, begging on Kickstarter.
I was thinking the same thing. If you read Kickstarter's TOS closely, you'll see that they has to approve each project (which I refer to as "appeasing the Kickstarter Gods").
But what's stopping someone from displaying a [quality] fake business plan, with early CGI model work, and some early design sketches, then taking the Kickstarter money and running away with it (or claiming you couldn't make budget)?
What if everyone started their games via Kickstarter? Would demand get so heavy that they would have to hire an entirely new "acceptance" staff? Would someone just make a "new" Kickstarter website themselves?
I too am weary of the over-saturation of every single company, whether it's already established or not, begging on Kickstarter.
No major game company should be using kickstarter. If they're large enough to be recognizable, then it doesn't sound like they need a trail of donations - they have larger publishers who will handle all of that and provide temporary job security for them.
Kickstarter is for those developers who don't have the funding to get games made, and they appeal to the customers directly so that they can create a game tailor made to the people willing to spend money.
Kickstarter is for those developers who don't have the funding to get games made, and they appeal to the customers directly so that they can create a game tailor made to the people willing to spend money.
@Celica, Chris
Kickstarter can be (and I think it already is) far more than just an "easy outlet for scams", and it certainly isn't begging. I understand the skepticism, and it is certainly healthy to be skeptic, especially in this case, but the possibilities Kickstarter offer shouldn't be reflexively dismissed. Begging is what poor and homeless people do on the streets: they ask for money without offering anything in exchange. When we pledge to a Kickstarter project we are funding a game we want to play, ensuring it gets made and possibly paying less than we'd pay for the finished product. It's a lot different than "begging".
Have you ever wondered how cool it would be if there was a way for the thousands of fans of that game you'd love to play (Baldur's Gate 3! Baldur's Gate 3!) to come together and make it happen? I know I have. And guess what? Now there is a way. It's called Kickstarter, and it's fantastic! We gamers have a lot more to gain by carefully embracing it than by reflexively dismissing it.
@Elsa, Artemmis
As far as I know no large or established developers have turned to Kickstarter to fund a game, unless you count Brian Fargo as an established developer, but, much like Tim Shaffer, his brand name alone wasn't enough to convince publishers to back Wasteland 2, something he'd been trying to get for years.
Kickstarter can be (and I think it already is) far more than just an "easy outlet for scams", and it certainly isn't begging. I understand the skepticism, and it is certainly healthy to be skeptic, especially in this case, but the possibilities Kickstarter offer shouldn't be reflexively dismissed. Begging is what poor and homeless people do on the streets: they ask for money without offering anything in exchange. When we pledge to a Kickstarter project we are funding a game we want to play, ensuring it gets made and possibly paying less than we'd pay for the finished product. It's a lot different than "begging".
Have you ever wondered how cool it would be if there was a way for the thousands of fans of that game you'd love to play (Baldur's Gate 3! Baldur's Gate 3!) to come together and make it happen? I know I have. And guess what? Now there is a way. It's called Kickstarter, and it's fantastic! We gamers have a lot more to gain by carefully embracing it than by reflexively dismissing it.
@Elsa, Artemmis
As far as I know no large or established developers have turned to Kickstarter to fund a game, unless you count Brian Fargo as an established developer, but, much like Tim Shaffer, his brand name alone wasn't enough to convince publishers to back Wasteland 2, something he'd been trying to get for years.
I'm behind this article 100% in terms of the fact that it encourages people to be well-educated, thinking, conscious consumers, which is always to their advantage. If you blindly throw money at anything on Kickstarter that has a decent cover image and mission statement, then you do run the risk of funding someone untrustworthy.
I've kicked in on several projects this year, but pretty much all of them are run by people who are very established in their field with work histories and track records that you can research publically. It's important to do your research, as with any purchase or investment.
Another reason this conversation becomes interesting, is because it raises the question of what value a publisher can bring to the table. It has long been the rallying cry of many a downtrodden developer or irritated fan, that if only those darn money-hungry publishers weren't in there sucking up funds, games would be so much better. And the questions you're asking are largely about the benefit that those publishers provide - they ensure accountability on behalf of the developer that the milestones will be met and the work will get done, they provide promotion, they market and advertise, they provide quality testing and can often affect the product they way an editor improves a manuscript - professional attention to detail.
And those are all good questions to ask - I'm completely in favor of Kickstarter as a great means to cutting out the middleman between brilliant developers and excited fans. I don't think that there's any reason for a developer with a plan and a product to NOT use kickstarter. The only people that would abuse it are scammers, not true developers, and I am certain that Kickstarter will have no problem scaling up and employing more people to verify more projects if they need to - that's what HR departments are for. It's a grand experiment which I'm excited about, but I'll acknowledge that it's still in its early stages - too early to panic about, and also too early to verify that it actually is a great thing.
I've kicked in on several projects this year, but pretty much all of them are run by people who are very established in their field with work histories and track records that you can research publically. It's important to do your research, as with any purchase or investment.
Another reason this conversation becomes interesting, is because it raises the question of what value a publisher can bring to the table. It has long been the rallying cry of many a downtrodden developer or irritated fan, that if only those darn money-hungry publishers weren't in there sucking up funds, games would be so much better. And the questions you're asking are largely about the benefit that those publishers provide - they ensure accountability on behalf of the developer that the milestones will be met and the work will get done, they provide promotion, they market and advertise, they provide quality testing and can often affect the product they way an editor improves a manuscript - professional attention to detail.
And those are all good questions to ask - I'm completely in favor of Kickstarter as a great means to cutting out the middleman between brilliant developers and excited fans. I don't think that there's any reason for a developer with a plan and a product to NOT use kickstarter. The only people that would abuse it are scammers, not true developers, and I am certain that Kickstarter will have no problem scaling up and employing more people to verify more projects if they need to - that's what HR departments are for. It's a grand experiment which I'm excited about, but I'll acknowledge that it's still in its early stages - too early to panic about, and also too early to verify that it actually is a great thing.
Okay, I just read this on the Brazilian yahoo right after I finished writing the comment, and though it's off-topic I just HAVE to share it. Have you ever wanted to see your neighbor naked? That super hot teacher, perhaps? That friend of yours that would shame Angelina Jolie herself? Well, leave it to my beloved Brazil to use crowdfunding to make those dreams come true!
A new site, Nake it (in portuguese), founded by Brazilian marketing professionals, uses the Kickstarter model to "raise" money to convince whoever it is you want to see naked bare it all. If the "project" is fully funded they will then dangle the money in front of her and attempt to convince her to do it, if not you are not charged, much like Kickstarter.
Launching the site is a Brazilian hostess called Pietra Principe, who will be photographed naked if the BRL 300k milestone is reached (so far people have pledged around 76 thousand with 17 days to go, so it just might happen).
And let's not forget the reward tiers! Highlights include Pietra's panties for BRL 300, or the pictures hand-delivered to your home by the beauty herself for a cool BRL 8000!
So you see, if you're still not convinced crowdfunding will solve all the world's ill even after seeing this, what the hell is wrong with you?!?!?
A new site, Nake it (in portuguese), founded by Brazilian marketing professionals, uses the Kickstarter model to "raise" money to convince whoever it is you want to see naked bare it all. If the "project" is fully funded they will then dangle the money in front of her and attempt to convince her to do it, if not you are not charged, much like Kickstarter.
Launching the site is a Brazilian hostess called Pietra Principe, who will be photographed naked if the BRL 300k milestone is reached (so far people have pledged around 76 thousand with 17 days to go, so it just might happen).
And let's not forget the reward tiers! Highlights include Pietra's panties for BRL 300, or the pictures hand-delivered to your home by the beauty herself for a cool BRL 8000!
So you see, if you're still not convinced crowdfunding will solve all the world's ill even after seeing this, what the hell is wrong with you?!?!?
@Caim Crowd funding for an AIDS cure next! Higher reward tiers get better and more effective treatments!
I've been tempted on only one other project, The Banner Saga, but I still haven't supported it because there is no gameplay at all to be seen. Double Fine I felt more of a connection and trusted them more so I gave them 15 bucks.
As a Brazilian I don't know how to feel about this...
I've been tempted on only one other project, The Banner Saga, but I still haven't supported it because there is no gameplay at all to be seen. Double Fine I felt more of a connection and trusted them more so I gave them 15 bucks.
As a Brazilian I don't know how to feel about this...
I never said Kickstarter is terrible. It's actually great. It can just be easily abused, and in a sense, it *can* be used begging -- semantics aside, you don't have to be "homeless and on the streets" to beg.
You can make $100,000US a year, and still beg -- in fact, the term "begging" doesn't necessarily mean "without giving anything in return". Take the newspaper windshield washers for example. While I don't think anyone is "begging" specifically in today's Kickstarter market, I can easily see it becoming over-saturated by people with little to no talent, simply demanding money.
The regulation of Kickstarter's wildfire propositions will be interesting to watch. Fulldamage summed it up: "too early to panic about, and also too early to verify that it actually is a great thing."
You can make $100,000US a year, and still beg -- in fact, the term "begging" doesn't necessarily mean "without giving anything in return". Take the newspaper windshield washers for example. While I don't think anyone is "begging" specifically in today's Kickstarter market, I can easily see it becoming over-saturated by people with little to no talent, simply demanding money.
The regulation of Kickstarter's wildfire propositions will be interesting to watch. Fulldamage summed it up: "too early to panic about, and also too early to verify that it actually is a great thing."
@Chris
I don't understand what you mean by "newspaper windshield washer". Do you mean those people offering to wash you windshield at traffic lights?
Anyways, since you referred to it begging, which is somewhat pejorative, it came across to me as if you were dismissing it as a bad idea, but yeah, I guess we're pretty much saying the same thing. I love the possibilities of Kickstarter and I think it is POTENTIALLY a great thing but we should approach it with caution and not rush to throw our money at every Kickstarter game project. That was the point I was trying to make in the post, perhaps not very successfully :)
I don't understand what you mean by "newspaper windshield washer". Do you mean those people offering to wash you windshield at traffic lights?
Anyways, since you referred to it begging, which is somewhat pejorative, it came across to me as if you were dismissing it as a bad idea, but yeah, I guess we're pretty much saying the same thing. I love the possibilities of Kickstarter and I think it is POTENTIALLY a great thing but we should approach it with caution and not rush to throw our money at every Kickstarter game project. That was the point I was trying to make in the post, perhaps not very successfully :)
