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TF Tuesdays - Meta Tags, Spawn Times, and Hacking Oh My!
CaffeinePowered | 5:03 PM on 03.04.2008 38 comments









I am greatly displeased at the lack of fallout love :(

Kor will be running things tonight, as I have a test at 7pm, I may catch some of you after my test. I also have another test tomorrow, but I’ll try to fit in a study break. Please don’t TL;DR this, there are a few important things you need to read.

Late this weekend I was messaged by someone accusing two people of hacking, while this can definitely happen and I have seen hackers on the server, these accusations were against two long standing regulars. I’m not going to go into detail, but if you think someone is hacking, especially a regular, please TAKE A DEMO, simply go spec, spectate them, and then type “record hackingdemo” in console, this will record the play for review. Neither I or Kor take this lightly and it will be delt with a perma-ban if proven.

I’ll be testing the automated plugin again this week and on Friday, after 10pm cst the server should be switching to 2fort/Dustbowl rotation only, if anyone notices any problems let me know.

The server now has meta-tags, you can use the in-game server browser (NOT the steam server browser) to search for servers using meta-tags. Some tags, like birthday mode, all talk, no spawn timers, and no crits show up automatically, but I can also define some individually. Here are the tags so far, if you have any suggestions, please leave them in the comments.

sv_tags Values:

Destructoid
alltalk
birthday
custom maps
customs
faggot tree
furries
norespawntime

I am also working on a plugin on and off with a friend that will use off sets to undo the soldier/demo ammo nerf. Regardless of whether people in the community want it, I’m going to help code it, the question to all of you is, would you want this on the server, I’m going to try to help write it, but if my friend manages to succeed (at this point it may not work at all), would this be something the community wants?

Lastly as many of you have noticed, spawn timers have been unlocked, unfortunately there is no middle ground, it’s either all or nothing, they are on or they are not. Some people have expressed that they don’t liked it, and some have said they love it. If you feel strongly about it, now is the time to voice your opinion. I’m also considering coding something to make spawn timers being on and off dynamic based on server population (ie, under 12 timers are off).

--Usual Copy Pasta--

If you want to be involved in the contest make a post here, with at least your Steam Community name, since some people's dtoid and Steam names don't match up.

--2 weeks left in the Contest--

Current Contest Leaders:

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Just two weeks left! Make sure you sign up by the end of this week if you want in and think you have a shot! Seeding the server when it is empty is a great way to build up kills.

UPDATED - Map pack can be downloaded here

Again, if you would like to get placed on the reserved slot list for dtoid readers, please POST YOUR STEAMID HERE.

Time: 8pm Central
Server: Destructoid.com - TF2 - Pew Pew Pew
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Point & Counterpoint 8: Best Overlooked RPG – Arcanum vs Vagrant Story
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38 comments | showing # 1 to 38
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lucashoal's Avatar - Comment posted on 03/04/2008 17:15
lucashoal
Respawn - if there were a way to lower it, then I say 5 seconds. But since it's all or nothing, I vote off entirely.

Very yes on the ammo de-nerf, also. Especially for the Soldiers.
Greatbacon's Avatar - Comment posted on 03/04/2008 17:17
Greatbacon
I'll be on tonight, sorry to hear that you won't be though. Personally, i dislike the new ammo restrictions, so if you and your friend can work around that, I'm down with it. As for spawntimes, I enjoy clusterfuck rushes as opposed to say, losing the last point because everyone on your team is respawning.
Also cocks.
Mission_Difficult's Avatar - Comment posted on 03/04/2008 17:18
Mission_Difficult
At first I didn't really dig on the ammo nerf, but after playing with it for awhile it doesn't bother me too much. If anything I think it adds a new dynamic and makes dispensers useful for more than just health. As for spawn timers, I would prefer them on because instant spawn can turn into a mess.
Eschatos's Avatar - Comment posted on 03/04/2008 17:18
Eschatos
I love that spray sooo much. Too bad I lost the file and can't figure out where to redownload it.
exanimo's Avatar - Comment posted on 03/04/2008 17:20
exanimo
Anyway .. I don't like the fast respawn times. I believe that the respawn times add a level of balance to the game, too fast of respawn throws the gameplay out of the window.

And about the ammo, I don't really mind either way, most people die before using all of their ammo anyway. Always ammo to pick up too.

About the hacker,

All jorge.
UselessKor's Avatar - Comment posted on 03/04/2008 17:21
UselessKor
Excellent.

I'm all for the zero respawn timers, its making the TF2 experience close to the old TFC and it makes some maps(CP's) alot more fluid so the gameplay is more enjoyable. It appears you've already added my #1 choice for a metatag, so I'm good there.

Oh, and FUCK YES to undoing the ammo nerfs.

On a more serious note, hacking is something can true decimate a server in short order. I happen to think that Dtoid is quite possibly one of the best servers I've ever played on(past and present) and I'd like to see that continue. The single BEST aspect of our server is that its always been self-policing. We've never had an inordinate number of dillholes on the server, and I'd like to continue to see the community ensure that it stays that way.

With that said, I have no qualms about dropping the banhammer on anyone that wants to test our resolve on this issue.
Rockvillian's Avatar - Comment posted on 03/04/2008 17:22
Rockvillian
I'm actually okay with the recent nerfs and prefer them (and I usually play as demo) so if it was up to me, I wouldn't bother undoing them.

Everything else is fine with me though. I haven't been playing TOO often and will be playing a lot more, so as long as I can jump in whenever without too many changes going on, the better.

Thanks again for all the work Caff!
CarnivorousJoe's Avatar - Comment posted on 03/04/2008 17:23
CarnivorousJoe
Happy Belated BTW,
Respawn off, or lowered if you can.
Keep the ammo lowered
Knivy's Avatar - Comment posted on 03/04/2008 17:24
Knivy
I haven't played enough since the update to really hate or dislike the nerf on Soldiers, but I can see how it would annoy me.

Also nice comics and as usual I won't be able to play thanks to college.
Aerox's Avatar - Comment posted on 03/04/2008 17:26
Aerox
Yes on undoing the ammo nerf, but I say no on the respawn timer. It ruins the flow of too many maps, particularly point caps, and I feel like it cheapens the value of some of the classes. Like as a spy, it can be a lot of work to sneak back and take out a dispenser or medic/heavy team or something. It's not really worth the effort when they're back instantly.
CaffeinePowered's Avatar - Comment posted on 03/04/2008 17:26
CaffeinePowered
@Joe - Unfortunately its all or nothing unless someone makes a plugin and I haven't the foggiest on how to dynamically alter spawn timers.

For now, its all or nothing, on or off.
Aerox's Avatar - Comment posted on 03/04/2008 17:28
Aerox
Also, on the second stage of Dustbowl, you can kill an engineer on a sentry and he can be right back out repairing it before you've even had a chance to kill it, since it's literally 2 seconds away from the spawn timer. I don't think I've played a match on dustbowl yet since the timer disappeared where anyone's made it past stage 2.
ZargonX's Avatar - Comment posted on 03/04/2008 17:28
ZargonX
I'll be there.

As for spawn times, I really feel like it differs from map to map as to whether to have them on or off. I will yield to the decision of the masses.
angusm's Avatar - Comment posted on 03/04/2008 17:30
angusm
I'm easy either way when it comes to spawn timers.
A lack of spawn timers certainly makes scouts alot more useful.
CaffeinePowered's Avatar - Comment posted on 03/04/2008 17:31
CaffeinePowered
@Zargon - You are part of the masses, throw in your 2 cents :)

As I also said I could write a plugin that does it dynamically, like if the map is CTF - spawn timers are off, CP - timers on.
fyre's Avatar - Comment posted on 03/04/2008 17:35
fyre
I kinda like the idea of the respawn timers being off with under 12 people, but I don't think I would like them off entirely.

I don't play soldier or demo as much, but so far I don't like the ammo nerf. That could change as I get used to it though.

Last week someone accused me of hacking when I was playing as a spy, which really pissed me off. If you don't mind saying, was I one of the two?

And lastly, I've been working on a map recently and I've never made one before, so does anyone know of a good TF2 mapping forum? And once I get it to a point where most everything works, could we maybe try it out on the server some night for like 10-15 minutes?
Niero's Avatar - Comment posted on 03/04/2008 17:36
Niero
- WATCH OUT FOR MAH HEAD FAKE -

Wish I could do this. I have to travel. Poo.
Deathkiller's Avatar - Comment posted on 03/04/2008 17:38
Deathkiller
Yeah the ammo nerfs been really hurtin mah demoman. If anythin' I'd suppose its more of an excurse for third party mappers to stick ammo boxes all over the place.

Also: I know Valve promissed a new game mode, but after doing some thinking/experimenting I've come to the realization that with a little func track-train triggering and using some parent functions it'd be easy to create the game type they've been planning for release before it actually comes out in the form of a modified CP or CTF map where points are earned getting the train to point B from point A.

You could even just put the whole thing on a door trigger if you wanted so if enough red are touching they can open it faster (with a counter managing door speed) and when they reach the end it unlocks a safe with the intel in it for an instant score and everyone (including the door) being reset to spawn.

I think it could revitalize the whole industry of making assault maps. I'd be especially fond of a beach landing one (and have considered potentially working on one) possibly even a level where multiple objects (be them carts or otherwise) must reach their objectives to win. Hmm *gears start turning*
Eschatos's Avatar - Comment posted on 03/04/2008 17:42
Eschatos
For the plugin, it'd be nice to try zero respawn occasionally, but I'd prefer that most things be left alone. As for hackers, I'll be happy to just ban them, but plenty of the time it's just one person playing really well. Once or twice in different games I have been accused of hacking when going on a fifteen kill streak.
CaffeinePowered's Avatar - Comment posted on 03/04/2008 17:49
CaffeinePowered
@neiro - :( lack of editor love recently, Rev and Grim used to show up from time to time

@Death - theres already one out :)

http://www.fpsbanana.com/maps/48225
CaffeinePowered's Avatar - Comment posted on 03/04/2008 17:50
CaffeinePowered
err wrong link
exanimo's Avatar - Comment posted on 03/04/2008 17:57
exanimo
Fyre, just go to fpsbanana and the default development.valvesoftware site. It helps a lot. If you need help with a specific topic, just Google it. You'll learn a lot working on your first map as you go. I'm making my first map, so I'm not sure as to how much help I can be, but you can ask and I'll try and help! :D
JazX's Avatar - Comment posted on 03/04/2008 17:58
JazX
If you can set spawn times based on the map/type, I would say turn them off on ctf and straight capture point maps, but I think they need to stay on for defense capture point maps (such as dustbowl and gravelpit). Its almost impossible to successfully attack on those maps if your opponent can respawn instantly and be right at the destination and you need to march back across the map. If you can't set it by map, I would just leave it on.

As for the ammo nerfs, it doesn't really bother me either way. Its not that often that you go through that much ammo without coming across an ammo box, dispenser or weapon, unless you are just spamming a chokepoint.
Aerox's Avatar - Comment posted on 03/04/2008 18:00
Aerox
Tag suggestions:
Dtoid
Cock Guillotine
Scrotum Poaching
Dolphins
Ammmaaaazzzzinnngggg
Dispensing Erections
Furry Porn Sprays
OBJECTION
The GHost's Avatar - Comment posted on 03/04/2008 18:29
The GHost
I'm actually totally cool with the ammo limit and the respawn times. Insta-respawn could really hurt in the cp maps as several others have pointed out. I guess I could see instant respawns for CTF, but I like having the extra time reward for a kill so I'd be mildly against instant spawns on those maps.

Won't be around tonight, clan has its first CAL match :D
Wedge's Avatar - Comment posted on 03/04/2008 18:34
Wedge
I prefer the respawn times if there is a lot of people on the server, otherwise it seems like there is no point to killing somebody half the time.

I also didn't mind the ammo nerfs, it's made me more careful about using rockets as a soldier.

And finally, IS CHAOS IN ROTATION/SELECTION YET?
rumsfald's Avatar - Comment posted on 03/04/2008 18:39
rumsfald
Respawn timer: I prefer them on...TF is not team deathmatch and when death has no severe consequences it reinforces deathmatch play.

Ammo nerf: I don't feel it too bad on Demon, but I suck at Demo and don't play a lot. I feel the ammo nerf a lot as Soldier, and would prefer a clip or two more than the current limit. However, as a Heavy you always run out of ammo half-way across the map, so in that sense the new Soldier ammo is more in line with the Heavy loadout. On the other hand, I rarely run out of ammo as Pyro without being able to adequately replenish.

Cheaters: Repugnant. I would go a step further and, if confirmed with solid proof, submit the cheaters Steam ID to one of the Steam ID ban lists that would keep them off of all VAC servers. I can't imagine who was accused of cheating, but if I had to it would be Caff (who's all around skills seem to dominate everyone else) and Aerox (who has been on an absolute tear with sniper the last three weeks or so). If I sucked a little more, I would think that both were too good to be believed, but they are that good. (Kor sucks).

Tags:
Old School TFC Lovers
Conc Grenades Forever
Remember this TFC Map?
ScottyG's Avatar - Comment posted on 03/04/2008 19:00
ScottyG
Best of luck on your test Caff. :)

Bummer to hear about the hacking accusations. Hopefully everything will get resolved soon. :S

I'd prefer a short respawn time (5 seconds) over none, but given it's all or none I'd prefer none.

As for the ammo nerfs I wouldn't mind seeing them fixed for the soldier, but not for the demo man. At least not for the demoman's stickybombs.

Oh, and check your dtoid inbox thingy shortly. I have (hopefully) good news. :)
ZargonX's Avatar - Comment posted on 03/04/2008 19:14
ZargonX
With the dynamic set-up, I would say no spawn for CTF, and regular spawn times for CP.
Eschatos's Avatar - Comment posted on 03/04/2008 19:19
Eschatos
It's now official:

Every webcomic has done a Team Fortress 2 comic.

Evil Cheese's Avatar - Comment posted on 03/04/2008 19:36
Evil Cheese
I vote yes to undoing the ammo nerfs. 16 rockets isn't near enough in my opinion.

I don't really care that much about the spawn timers. I guess we could try it on some maps and see how it works out; if it seems to screw up balance too badly then we can just keep the timers on.
SanityMask's Avatar - Comment posted on 03/04/2008 19:39
SanityMask
I haven't played after the nerfing, but in my opinion it makes the dispenser more valuable to other players than the engy,pyro,heavy crowd.

It also makes the weapons drop vital for those 2 classes and doesn't make much of a difference for the soldier crowd, because you'll eventually kill someone if you don't well you're just dead, leaving your remaining ammo for others to pick.
I think it makes the gameplay more tight, no more rocket spamming, people have to play with brain.

I'm for the Soldier nerf, but the demoman? C'mon, it was his advantage over other classes, not seeing the opponent trying to angle or rebound off a wall a shot without exposing himself to danger trying to make up for his weakness in close range.

respawn timer:
CTF: OFF
CP: ON
DrkAdonis's Avatar - Comment posted on 03/04/2008 23:27
DrkAdonis
I had a good time tonight before my connection cut out... I agree that as far as respawn timers go...

CTF: off
CP: on

...it was really wonky to see people trying to capture the intelligence and rush in, kill a whole team, and then get slaughtered as they tried to escape since the whole team had respawned so close.
copulatingduck's Avatar - Comment posted on 03/05/2008 00:29
copulatingduck
If crits were turned off, I wouldn't mind undoing the ammo changes. Otherwise leave 'em. I'm a demo/soldier pretty often, and it doesn't bother me a bit. It just forces those less than useful guys to pick a different class.

As for the spawn timer, I think the timer should stay on ctf maps and all cp EXCEPT for Badlands. I dunno if they just haven't tested it enough to fix the timers, but something needs to be done about it to keep it from just being "first team to get center cap steamrolls the other lol."
copulatingduck's Avatar - Comment posted on 03/05/2008 00:30
copulatingduck
My bad, I meant timer on for CTF and off for all CP except Badlands. My opinion will probably matter less since I'm newer and I'm gonna be busy with my thesis this semester :(
insomnia's Avatar - Comment posted on 03/05/2008 04:07
insomnia
I don't mind the ammo nerfs as they indeed make ammo drops and dispensers more important and makes the demo/soldier think a bit more while playing. I'm also pro-respawn timers because it's good to have a penalty for dying and it kinda also lets a team regroup a bit.

Tag suggestions:

EverythingButTheHax
BloodyMess
TakeThat
OBJECTION

(That's assuming spaces are not allowed)
ToiletDuck's Avatar - Comment posted on 03/05/2008 11:47
ToiletDuck
add jorge to the meta-tag list, haha.

if only we could get 10 second spawn times, i think that would be PURRFECT!
jorge's Avatar - Comment posted on 03/05/2008 21:32
jorge
"add jorge to the meta-tag list, haha."
yus

No way for the plug-in to change, depending on the map, makes me sad. Red has too much of an advantage with instant respawn on cp maps like dustbowl or gravelpit; rigged, some may say. Symmetric maps like well, labor, or joofort are better with the fast timer.

As for the ammo nerf, I don't mind it. Not a big deal to me.
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