This is written in direct response to Chad's most recent article. Unfortunately, I seem completely unable to comment at all. So, I figured I'd spew my unpopular opinions on here instead.
I see the 'turgid videogame anonymity' reference as just a way of pinpointing the exact nature of the critic's issue with the film. I believe most nongamers find the amount of action in popular games to be repetitive, drawn out, and lacking in specificity. And I think it's disingenuous to deny them their honest opinion. Sure, you can quote some more artistic games that they haven't factored in as a rejoinder but even most gamers haven't played those. So, their ignorance isn't an aberration, it's the standard. For his audience, primarily nongamers, it's a great analogy. They all get it. You disagree because you aren't his audience and you wish he wouldn't honestly express his opinions of your medium because you do know more about it than him. So, to you, of course, they're all being short sighted but what are you going to do? Force them to play Shadow of the Colossus. No, we write another call to arms or "you're doing it wrong, movie critics" piece to put off any real action. Pondering why so many people view video games the way they do, that's more worthy of our time. Is it because the vast majority of games reinforce that attitude immensely and the ones who don't sell poorly and garner little attention? Is it because we view shorter and more accessible games with suspicion and/or contempt? And so on.
I also think it's kinda pathetic that everyone keeps commenting on these critics. I mean, don't you see the contradiction there? We keep saying "oh, those fools, when will they ever understand?" over and over again thus making their effect on the world as a whole so much larger than it really is. Epic Movie's and other films of its quality are brought up to denigrate the movie industry but its success also shows that your common every day movie goer doesn't listen to critics, let alone understand them. You keep bringing these people up, it's like being obsessed over an old flame. Or perhaps a relentless search for some ridiculous sense of acceptance like a goth teenager that really just shows how confident we all truly are in our artform. We're so confident we'll harp on forever about how the old guys that like movies just don't understand us.
Finally, comments in general are getting ridiculous. Any story that has majority approval gets evocations of love and worship. It creeps me out honestly. Thank god though that I'm here to be a consistent ball of negativity.
The problem is not that Ebert and critics like him simply aren't playing the right games, it's that they refuse to see any potential in the medium of video games. It's their blind bias that makes us dislike them, and why we will continue to speak ill of them.
And welcome to Destructoid. Comments are going to be ridiculous. It's just what we do.
Yeah, usually it's just that most people in the community like and hate the same stuff. Ebert will one day play a game that will wow him as some game has wowed us at some point in our lives. Or not. In the meantime he should just write more movie reviews I can love/hate :)
@Mechamonkey
I think you'd find their "blind bias" towards literally thousands of other potential art forms. I believe, though with no real certainty, that Ebert hates the advant garde folks who are making art out of shit (literal shit) because no one's made shit into anything worth thinking about. And I think we'd all agree with him that a shit Mona Lisa is interesting for all of five seconds. Like Pew said, it takes a real masterpiece to change someone's mind about something. Shit doesn't have it, games do, but if you're not aware of those isolated gems, those diamonds in the rough, nothing changes. But I suppose we can all continue to speak ill of them as long as everyone's aware that it's a fruitless effort, designed solely to make ourselves feel good.
Part of the problem is how when videogames are brought up in other contexts, they refer to it as one anomalous medium rather than indicating any awareness that there are differences between different videogames. Even if the audience has no "real" knowledge of videogames they can still phrase it much better.
For example, a quote pulled by Chad Concelmo:
"... and the repetitive combat sequences only add to the turgid videogame anonymity of it all."
Compared to something I just made up:
"... and the repetitive combat sequences only add to the atmosphere of turgid videogame filler."
The first phrasing can just as easily as not be read as a backhanded insult towards videogames. The second recognizes that videogames have varying levels of content and gets a similar or identical point across without the implied dismissal of videogames themselves. While some of these critics' behavior is obviously born from lack of experience, there is obviously a better way to make the comparisons.
Well said, I'm actually in agreement with you on this Bus. Your quote here:
"We keep saying "oh, those fools, when will they ever understand?" over and over again thus making their effect on the world as a whole so much larger than it really is."
This immediately reminded me of Jack Thompson and his relationship to the internet video game community. If everybody ignored him, he would eventually go away rather than keep adding fuel to his fire.
Actually, I agree with a lot of what you are saying. I am, surprisingly, a huge fan of Roger Ebert and Owen Gleiberman. I have followed (and oddly worshiped) Ebert's career as a film critic for many years. In fact, I still love him and greatly admires what he does.
My problem is not with the comparison, it is with the rash generalization. And, really, it could be anything (not just videogames) and I would feel the same way. To compare one specific piece of entertainment with an entire medium just seems silly.
For some reason, this seems to happen with videogames more often than not. Think about it: when was the last time you read a review comparing something bad to all that "literature hokum." You probably haven't because it doesn't happen.
As someone who is very serious about making a living in the gaming industry, I feel it is time that people like me stand up -- not to annoyingly preach -- but to express how emotionally powerful videogames can be. I'm not asking anyone to change their habits or play games they have no interest in -- I just think people should listen (which, when it comes to videogames, most people won't). It's just my opinion, and I respect that you disagree with it.
It is just hard to sit back and know that there are many people in the entertainment industry that refuse to accept or even understand what videogames are. Is that really too much to ask? :)
@Chad
Eh, well, I've often heard people mockingly compare certain films to modern literature in their obtuseness and pretentiousness. Rushmore, for example. I think a certain critic could demonstrate his dislike for Rushmore by comparing it to "books who have only academic purposes, marveling at their own technical excellence while the audience is merely bored." He's wrong (b/c Rushmore is awesome) but the comparison works. I think it isn't as far reaching as the video game analogies but books are far more well known and more diversified. I think the latter's the real issue at the end of the day. And I honestly do believe that video games as a medium is too afflicted with a sense of sameness for it to penetrate a larger mindset. To me, comparing one specific piece to another medium entirely is justified if the media in question suffers from a lack of innovation and diversification. That changing will be the only thing that gets the critics to come around to our thinking.
But thanks for replying and weathering my negativity well. Reading back, I was way too harsh. Very cranky yesterday. Mea culpa.
Good words, Bus. I don't think I disagree with you or Chad; I suppose it's all been said by now, but the core of his argument appears to be that one throwaway sentence was drawing an uneven comparison between a film and a medium.
Although, honestly, I kinda love the phrase "turgid videogame anonymity," and hate the gamey-ness of modern action flicks, and often refer to parts of films as "shitty video game sequences." I love games, though; videogame is just a really easy, clear descriptor or... well, turgid, anonymous action-violence.
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(# 0) on 09/09/2008 20:15
And welcome to Destructoid. Comments are going to be ridiculous. It's just what we do.
(# 1) on 09/09/2008 20:25
(# 2) on 09/09/2008 20:36
I think you'd find their "blind bias" towards literally thousands of other potential art forms. I believe, though with no real certainty, that Ebert hates the advant garde folks who are making art out of shit (literal shit) because no one's made shit into anything worth thinking about. And I think we'd all agree with him that a shit Mona Lisa is interesting for all of five seconds. Like Pew said, it takes a real masterpiece to change someone's mind about something. Shit doesn't have it, games do, but if you're not aware of those isolated gems, those diamonds in the rough, nothing changes. But I suppose we can all continue to speak ill of them as long as everyone's aware that it's a fruitless effort, designed solely to make ourselves feel good.
(# 3) on 09/09/2008 21:27
For example, a quote pulled by Chad Concelmo:
"... and the repetitive combat sequences only add to the turgid videogame anonymity of it all."
Compared to something I just made up:
"... and the repetitive combat sequences only add to the atmosphere of turgid videogame filler."
The first phrasing can just as easily as not be read as a backhanded insult towards videogames. The second recognizes that videogames have varying levels of content and gets a similar or identical point across without the implied dismissal of videogames themselves. While some of these critics' behavior is obviously born from lack of experience, there is obviously a better way to make the comparisons.
(# 4) on 09/09/2008 22:59
"We keep saying "oh, those fools, when will they ever understand?" over and over again thus making their effect on the world as a whole so much larger than it really is."
This immediately reminded me of Jack Thompson and his relationship to the internet video game community. If everybody ignored him, he would eventually go away rather than keep adding fuel to his fire.
(# 5) on 09/10/2008 02:08
My problem is not with the comparison, it is with the rash generalization. And, really, it could be anything (not just videogames) and I would feel the same way. To compare one specific piece of entertainment with an entire medium just seems silly.
For some reason, this seems to happen with videogames more often than not. Think about it: when was the last time you read a review comparing something bad to all that "literature hokum." You probably haven't because it doesn't happen.
As someone who is very serious about making a living in the gaming industry, I feel it is time that people like me stand up -- not to annoyingly preach -- but to express how emotionally powerful videogames can be. I'm not asking anyone to change their habits or play games they have no interest in -- I just think people should listen (which, when it comes to videogames, most people won't). It's just my opinion, and I respect that you disagree with it.
It is just hard to sit back and know that there are many people in the entertainment industry that refuse to accept or even understand what videogames are. Is that really too much to ask? :)
(# 6) on 09/10/2008 06:18
Eh, well, I've often heard people mockingly compare certain films to modern literature in their obtuseness and pretentiousness. Rushmore, for example. I think a certain critic could demonstrate his dislike for Rushmore by comparing it to "books who have only academic purposes, marveling at their own technical excellence while the audience is merely bored." He's wrong (b/c Rushmore is awesome) but the comparison works. I think it isn't as far reaching as the video game analogies but books are far more well known and more diversified. I think the latter's the real issue at the end of the day. And I honestly do believe that video games as a medium is too afflicted with a sense of sameness for it to penetrate a larger mindset. To me, comparing one specific piece to another medium entirely is justified if the media in question suffers from a lack of innovation and diversification. That changing will be the only thing that gets the critics to come around to our thinking.
But thanks for replying and weathering my negativity well. Reading back, I was way too harsh. Very cranky yesterday. Mea culpa.
(# 7) on 09/10/2008 13:04
Although, honestly, I kinda love the phrase "turgid videogame anonymity," and hate the gamey-ness of modern action flicks, and often refer to parts of films as "shitty video game sequences." I love games, though; videogame is just a really easy, clear descriptor or... well, turgid, anonymous action-violence.