Hi everyone,

Thanks for reading my promoted C-Blog and commenting! Last I checked it was at 121 comments, THE MOST ON DTOID THIS WEEK. Holy poopers! A lot of love from a lot of people, which surprised me upon my re-read after it was live on the front page; if I hadn't written it and was reading that shit on some front page I'd be all "who's this guy? fuck this." However, I'm me so I was more like "TEE HEE LOOK AT ALL OF THESE COMMENTS."

What I was most impressed by, though, was the actual comments that dissented: they all took to heart that thing about making valid arguments, which is totally awesome. The last time I had a blog get a lot of dissenting responses it was a fucking mess and turned me off of this site for a while. This restored my hope. Thank you, all!

I've decided to respond to a few of the comments in my blog, because they were good and I want a chance to justify myself. Here goes!

Oh, and re: the 360 friends list joke, I said that because I haven't had internet at home for 3 weeks, so I haven't been online... don't unfriend me! :(



DibbityDan sez, The only one of these rules I refuse to follow is the novelty T-shirts rule. Because I really like Beck and Monty Python and I would feel like I'd be pretending if I wore anything else.

It's not really pretending, you see. Think of, say, wallpapering your home; it doesn't need to have Beck and Monty Python on the wallpaper, does it? It's there to look good. Allow your clothes to communicate shit about you without being really base about it. Tell people you like Beck with your mouth, not your chest, you know? But, also, I got no problem with people having SOME shirts like this; it's when they wear them with a "fuck other clothes" attitude and have no alternative.



Mushman busts, Dude, you forgot the online gamer douchebag most favourite word!! 'Nigga'

I didn't forget it-- I just chose to not say it. I actually spent longer than I expected deciding whether or not to even say that word, as I felt it was necessary to bring up, but I felt so uncomfortable even writing it in something. I just referred to it, in the end, which was pansy of me, but, hey, I wanted to feel comfortable with this getting frontpaged, so...



Richard Blocker sez, Tango Lima / Delta Romeo

Fair. But, also, eat a dick.



Respectable Gentleman say, I don't think I like this month's theme. So much anger.

I can actually agree with this. It's difficult to read all that negativity. I blame Rev.



dronkmunk uttered, no one is going to take that advice

The point wasn't so much to make people take the advice as it was to vent. Catharsis, baby!



blu3steel ejaculated, Do not quote internet memes in public. They're not funny on the internet and they're even less funny in real life.

I wanted to include this, actually, but I already had 10 commandments, and I thought it was kinda covered in other points. This is the secret hidden 11th commandment, everyone.



Syn tossed out, I feel the word "FUCK" was over used a little bit in the first half

I agree with you, really; I should have avoided it entirely, but I was ramped up on anger-juice and pandering a bit to my audience. Sorry!



Many people all bukkake'd, Why so serious? It's just a game. This whole argument is gay, noob. And Halo is not below anything, it's the best game ever, you fanboy!

Oh, I get it now~!



Serpentish spun poetic: Heartfelt to me, means being invested emotionally which I think is taking things too far. This is what can ruin friendships, attitudes, possibly leading to a sense of a elitism in one's stance and subsequently to many of the prior things mentioned in the list. Of course it's not always the case but I'd say that taking games more lightly as a hobby doesn't mean you can't have meaningful discussions. Just look at most political discussions by opposing sides, quite heartfelt but far from a utopian scenario. Serious. Really? Do all conversations have to be completely serious to be worthwhile? I've had plenty of conversations where I was laughing half the time because a friend perhaps compared the controls of a game to handling his ex or some other off the wall metaphor. I don't think humor or being silly somehow detracts from the conversation. I understood what you were trying to say, I get sick of the lolcats and memes as much as you do. I just had issue with your choice of words more than anything.

By heartfelt, I more meant absent of sarcasm/irony/whatever the kids call it these days. You know, being... geniune? Maybe that's a better word for it. And I don't intend to discount all non-serious conversation, I just think that one should have the capacity to be genuine. It seems some people shy away from that kind of honesty 100% of the time and that saddens me. If it's your passion, but you refuse to have a serious conversation about it, then that's fucked up.



NobodysDream makes word: I can't really fault you for the vitriol in this article, seeing how this month's topic is editor sanctioned PMS. I do think you're yelling at the right people. But there is one fucking thing that just drives me up a fucking wall about this article: "Also, if you're bitching and moaning about not having a girlfriend, WEAR A SHIRT WITH A COLLAR. And NOT JUST TO A DATE." This is probably just a regional or a cultural thing, since you said you're in the Montreal hardcore scene and I'm some fucknut from California, but everyone I know, everyone, thinks people that wear collar shirts outside of a work environment or a formal environment is a fucking tool box. Seriously. Wearing a collar is like pledging celibacy. Especially fucking Polo shirts. But the basic idea you have is correct, if you want a chance at the opposite sex, you need to look appealing, and not everyone has a fetish for hairy slobs that like playing CS.

I think this is probably a cultural thing... I'm not so much in the MHC scene as I am in the "living in Plateau Mile End Montreal" scene where people are kinda hipsterish (but in the least shitty of ways) and the ironic t-shirt took by storm for a while and it was just... ugh. So crass. At least you get the nugget of the argument, though, which is to present yourself with pride (but not too much pride. Then you'd be a gino.)



Capn Birdseye calls bullshit: Sorry Brilliam, I am going to have to call bullshit on this one. This whole article reads like someone who is uncomfortable with the supposed stereotype of a gamer, and the fear that they will get labelled with it.

That sort of is the issue, though; a lot of people hate the stereotype of gamers (usually because they're painted with a similar brush) and the only way out of that is to fix the stereotype.

A few points I disagree with specifically - 1. I would say public forums and XBL are designed to be public places. It is idiotic to assume that everything said on either isn't open for immediate and open debate. I think a more appropriate analogy is that it's more like voicing your opinion on TV than on a crowded street. Not only is it public, you have intended the message to be public by posting there. All forums and chat programs have private channels to discuss stuff you do not want to be made public.

Sometimes a public debate gets out of hand. You know, flame wars and such. I'm not sure I disagree with you; it's a given, though, that many online arguments will get to a point where people including themselves in it only detracts (usually when it gets into flam war territory) from the debate. I want people to ask "before I post here, do I have something valid to say or am I just dogpiling or adding another carbon-copy voice to an internet gang war?"

2. Most of the violence/gaming controversies are because other forms of media have shown a supposed direct corrolation between the act and game playing. Gamers don't react badly because their hobby is getting bad press, its because it portrays the hobby as something to be concerned about, and that its inevitable that we are all going to turn into sociopathic killers. It puts gaming up there with having a bad crack habit - it taints your interactions with others and fosters prejudgement.

Reacting negatively to borderline slanderous press is the right thing to do. Reacting like a child is the wrong thing to do. That's the contrast I'm trying to state here.

4. Fanboyism - You have alot of hate for fanboyism, which is fair enough, but the games industry is nothing like the music industry, for example. People adopt a whole lifestyle based around what kind of music they like - I don't see hordes of nintendo fans walking around dressed like Mario, do you? Look at your average metal/punk/emo/goth fan. What about religion? Most forms of entertainment have their rabid, loyal fan bases, and most of them are alot worse than gaming. Gaming ones may just be more obvious to you because you frequent gaming communities and gamers are generally more tech savvy.

This I have to take offense with. You're bringing examples into it that are irrelevant to the argument at hand, which is gamers. Whether or not religious fanatics or music fans are objectively worse does not lessen how bad fanboys can be. As such, I don't see the purpose of your comparison. My original point was intended to find a fault and suggest a better alternative; you've simply ignored those points and attempted to appeal to the relevance of the topic, which wasn't up for discussion. Not cool.

Look, I could go on, but this is long enough as it is.

Please go on. I am intrigued.

[size=8]I am nearly 30 years old, was very popular in high school, have had lots of steady girlfriends, a decent job, and I have no problem identifying myself as a gamer. I think you should stop worrying about what other people think of you and just play some games. [/color]

This isn't an article about me. It's an article about turning a negative stereotpe around by failing ot fit into that negative stereotype. It's also an article about not being shitty in general!

If you don't like the people you play games with, find a different group of gamers.

I love the people I game with, when it comes to my friends and such. It's the strangers that frustrate me.

Trust me, the majority of XBL gamers aren't 14yo kids, most of them are reasonable, rational adults with a shared interest.

I dunno how true this statement is. Maybe it depends on the game. But I've never played a Halo 3 game that wasn't filled with offensively "gamer" assholes. (to be fair, I only played about 20 games before I got fed up).



MaxVest wonders, Who are you talking to? This doesn't apply to most of the people on this site that are valued community members (I said most...). I'd suggest you're setting up a straw man by tarring an extremely wide swath of people with a very narrow brush. And no, that wasn't a fat joke.

I never intended to imply that all (or even most, or even many) gamers are all of these things. What I did intend to say, though, is that we're all a LITTLE bit guilty of one or two of these things every once in a while, AND a few of us are guilty of MANY of these things. This community included; while it is filled with a vocal group of "functioning gamers," there are plenty of readers who might do well to heed at least some of the advice above. Furthermore, even if it is preaching to the choir, it was an enjoyable-to-write call to arms and entertaining enough to some readers.

If you're embarrassed by identifying as a gamer, don't. Don't go to PAX. Don't call yourself a gamer. It's not necessary to label yourself a gamer in order to enjoy games. If you think that all gamers act this way, then maybe you should argue that gaming itself is a contributing, rather than correlative, factor.

I don't label myself a gamer, but I am a... err, many-game-playing game player. Again, I don't think all gamers act this way (see above).

This is a problematic screed that seems meant to say, "Thank god I'm not one of you pathetic people. Stop embarrassing me." I don't think that's what you mean to say, so let me propose a different cause for your pain: assholes on public internet communities have more power than they do in private conversations, simply because assholes don't get invited to have private conversations. Perhaps you are mad that you can't shut them up or ban them. But realistically, the amount of unique individuals living up to your stereotype is small, it's just that they are disproportionately vocal.

There's no embarrassment. Well, maybe a bit when I link non-gamers to arguments that turn to shit and paint everyone involved with the stupid-brush, but for the most part, no embarrassment. The point is, it's not my stereotype, it's someone else's. Most of us DON'T fit all of it, but every time one of us fits to SOME of it it only reinforces the stereotype.



NightDehumidifier notes, Kinda funny how he's ranting about it on the internet with a collective group of people he's ordering to help. Sort of like screaming at the deaf.

I'm not sure I understand what you're saying here-- if you'd like to expand it'd be greatly appreciated.



rabbitgod declares, First of all, I did not read the entire article because the voice was vulgarly elitist and condescending and I just annoyed me, so I am sorry if it got better. However, I really disagree with a few of the points that were made. First, a forum is meant to be a place to share ideas among people. Online forums are based on real world forums and in the real world if two people are arguing about an issue, of course the others members of the forum would join if if they have something to say, that is the way they are set up. Secondly, it is of course fine and inevitable for people to have differing opinions. However, not all criticism is actually constructive and if someone criticizes a game that someone else feels strongly about, they may simply want to defend it for others who may not have played it and might be deterred by the public criticism. The fact is, if something is taken public it will be scrutinized and there is no point in getting into a fuss over it. Finally, you are not going to change the gamer community to fit your desires. If you don't like it the way it is, play different games or don't play at all if you really find the community insufferable.

My points on forums are better described above in my response to Birdseye. However, for the "vulgarly elitist" voice of the article I apologize. While I am probably (or, uhh, definitely) guilty of elitism, I should have tried harder to play it down. And the vulgarity was a cheap ploy to attract discussion. I'm beter than that, and for offending you I profoundly apologize. Although, I'll probably do it again. Because I'm bad like that.



Vitamin Awesome is ring-a-ding-dingin', I'd have to say I follow quite a few of these already, with the exception of Novelty shirts (I think I have one plain Black t-shirt). Would a Dickies workshirt over a novelty T-shirt be considered wearing a collar?

Err... is it buttoned up? If so, awesome.



dubbya dubbyas, Our culture as a whole needs to work on making our points known without profanity, it punctuates what you're saying, but it is easy to point at as a reason for our arguments to hold no water. The higher-ups in the gaming industry seldom if ever use profanity in a professional setting, if we wish to have any future in the gaming industry I believe we should follow suit.

While I agree with you, this argument is not for non-gamers, and as such, isn't needing to be cleaned up for the outside world. Jus'tryin'a TALK to the KIDS, knomshang? This article isn't ABOUT having a future in the industry, it's about making us as consumers question ourselves. But, yeah, the profanity is pretty... superfluous. I apologize again.



hood_954's comfort comes into play: Honestly this was a great read that pleased me but also for some reason made me feel uncomfortable. Your points are all quite valid and honestly, exactly how i feel most of the time. But i must agree with Cpn Birdseye and Maxvest. I felt that in preparing and writing this article, you forgot the true purpose of what this monthly musing was for: to express something that you hate, and the reasons why you hate it. instead, you chose to take it a step further and started listing ways t correct things that you perceive d to be problems. And i'm not saying that none of what your demand shouldn't happen, I simply feel it is unrealistic for ever actually happening. I'm not going to be another of these "great blog, this was awesome" bandwagon people. judging by the way you talk and compose yourself, i doubt that any more words of support would do much, and that you wouldn't need to hear them in the first place. But what i'm suggesting is that you're being too much of an idealist. Hoping to change the world with this isn't going to do it, i'm sorry. And people are people, never changing always the same. Don't get me wrong, your values and ideology stems further than just perfecting and making the gaming community better, and i agree with everything. But to think it'll make a difference, is just being naive. I'm not trying to be negative, i'm just trying to be realistic. I cannot stress how much i agree with you on these points. But be realistic. If the world wanted to change, REALLY wanted to change, it would have. But the idealist world you have envisioned, shall remain exactly that. a vision. for as long as humans are still human, and the world stays as imperfect as it is, there's no chance.

I understand what you're trying to say; however, I am grounded enough to think I won't change the world. But, I wanted to at least reach a few people, you know? If I ever state that I'm trying to change the world, it's just me being facetious.



atheistium is not a bitch: Shall I be the bitch? Yes, yes I shall. First of all I read this whole post and it was well written. Nice job and grats on front page, you saucy minx. I am surprised people haven't reacted. While I agree with most of your points and such, I feel this "be nice on the internet" argument has echo'd so much and made no difference now that it will never make a difference.

It's just one man's opinion; I'm not trying to "make a difference" or anything. I just think it's ugly how people can be, and I'm calling it like it is.

Say on XBL I get hounded (as usual) and I use the feedback system, block communications and carry on. 2 mins later I will join another match with another horny teen who wants pictures of my feet and such. Should I stop playing online? NO! I call them a dick, kick their ass and carry on. Block comm's etc. Why should I reward their behaver by giving them what they want or letting them carry on with it. I have to say something and hopefully 1/100 will listen to what I've said and calm down hitting on woman online.

I totally agree with this. I'm not saying stop playing online; I'm just saying "if you ARE a dick online, don't be." That's all. This article isn't really trying to tell the good folks what to do, be it block communications or quit or anything.

I've tried the be nice front but at the end of the day the internet is a huge FORUM of discussion and opinions. We are supposed to know if they hate something or love something. It's what makes us all different and unique. If no one put how they feel then all the threads would be; "today I played a game I quite disliked. but I like it because others do" "today I took a nap" "hello im a girl, here is a picture of me in a turtle neck. don't objectify me." And the replies would be equally as boring. The reason we return to such places is because of the constant laughs we have with the latest meme's (aka Why so serious?), watching people over react on stupid shit, e-drama, whores and such. As much as we all say we hate it, secretly we love it!

This isn't really what I mean. I suppose my point was more to the maturity of these discussions; we can argue like grownups but we don't. And I'm starting to think it's making us unable to argue as adults.

I'd love to see people maybe learn to calm down a little when it comes to arguments on live/psn - but there will always be dicks. HOWEVER "its just a game" does work, I know gaming culture is something many of us at Destructoid put our hearts and souls into but at the end of the day it's something we play and enjoy in our social time. It's supposed to be a fun outlet not a constant wall of stress. People are getting really out of hand with an argument, you remind them of their situation and they calm down (usually). So I gotta disagree with you on that one.

It's Just A Game bugs me in two ways: 1), the fact that it needs to be said when people start flipping out is just sad. 2), when it DOESN'T need to be said, because a good, intelligent, provocative discussion is happening, it gets said anyway, which is a bummer.

The other thing about being "mean" to people online is about filtering. Do you want hundreds of emo scene kids posting about their mario shaped wrist scars? Crappy tatoo's and bad music taste. I don't. Do you want stupid whore girls coming on here and making no relevant gaming posts at all and just posting another photoshopped photo of herself for you all to drool over. Okay, maybe some of you would enjoy that but there are different places for that. Hundreds of websites cator to photoshopped whores who want attention, I don't want that eyesore here so I tell them. I don't like fail here and many people agree. So we voice our opinions. At the end of the day the anonymity of online forums will always have dick heads, whores, copy pasta and drama. It's when we glue together and something awesome happens that makes it worth it. Some of the funniest stuff is produced out of people arguing or being weird and creepy. So just sit back and enjoy the freak show.

It does act as a filter at times, but it's a really crude filter. It turns off many good folks; often, not even the folks it intends to (eg. normal dude reads about emo kid getting ripped in half by hungry pack of forumites and decides "I don't want to be around those animals" and leaves. I might have wanted ot talk to normal guy! sucky!). Besides, I'd rather invite those slashy emo kids and warp their clearly malleable minds and turn them into fucking cool people. I CAN DO THAT YOU KNOW. Look at the comments-- I already morphed some people, or so they say!

p.s also showers are defo recommended.

Amen.



Druid_01 notes, at the last possible minute for inclusion in this: theirs a lot to love here, mainly the what NOT to do parts. but theirs a lot of stupid shit that sounds like you are just trying to say other people SHOULD do so their more like you. meh

I never meant the "do" bits to be edict as much as I wanted them to be suggestions to complement the "don'ts."