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I've got no problems with what you're saying. I like to see new things in games as well. But I'm also OK with a game stealing features or mechanics from other games so long as it's done well.
As for what I want from an FPS, well, I don't know if there is much you can really do. The genre is kind of stale, but that's because it's kind of hard to make something original in a genre that pretty much always boils down to "shoot fuckers in the head".
As for Killzone 2, I personally love it. But to be honest, it's probably not a game we'll be talking about 10 years down the road, when other games have beaten it graphically. By then, it'll be just another FPS game.
But that doesn't mean I can't enjoy it now for what it is: A well crafted and gorgeous shooter. I'm happy with it.
As for what I want from an FPS, well, I don't know if there is much you can really do. The genre is kind of stale, but that's because it's kind of hard to make something original in a genre that pretty much always boils down to "shoot fuckers in the head".
As for Killzone 2, I personally love it. But to be honest, it's probably not a game we'll be talking about 10 years down the road, when other games have beaten it graphically. By then, it'll be just another FPS game.
But that doesn't mean I can't enjoy it now for what it is: A well crafted and gorgeous shooter. I'm happy with it.
I don't even mind recycled mechanics, as long as the mechanic was done well in the first place and the new game doesn't fuck it up. I have an extreme personal distaste for regenerating health though, and seeing that pop up in more and more games is pissing me off.
I'm seeing the FPS genre turn from games where you have to play carefully, manage your health, and occasionally have to think about things to games where you just run in without worrying about consequences, and then stand behind a wall for 4 seconds if you mess up. I want a return back to the Wolfenstein 3D side of things.
I'm seeing the FPS genre turn from games where you have to play carefully, manage your health, and occasionally have to think about things to games where you just run in without worrying about consequences, and then stand behind a wall for 4 seconds if you mess up. I want a return back to the Wolfenstein 3D side of things.
I completely agree jon. ironically, I thought FEAR 2 was fun because it still has that, and for everything that's wrong with it (similar baddies, repetitive levels, weak story) I felt that because you could choose how to approach most situations differently while holding a few weapons and strategize about conserving your health (especially the last few levels, which were actually quite well thought out and actually a little difficult on 'hardest') that it seemed fresh to me, and quite underrated.
I didn't expect Killzone 2 to blow me away with a intriguing story, or incredible voice acting or great character development or awesome graphics. To put it plain and simple: I bought the game to shoot people in the fucking face. It sounds childish and retarded, but it's the truth. You have your Crysiseseses and your Bioshocks, but with games like Killzone 2 I buy them to enjoy multiplayer and shoot the shit out of anything that moves.
I never realized this more than when I leveled up to that one rank where you can unlock those two machine guns. Holy balls, bodycount with 16 people in a CQC map with a LMG is fun as shit.
I never realized this more than when I leveled up to that one rank where you can unlock those two machine guns. Holy balls, bodycount with 16 people in a CQC map with a LMG is fun as shit.
I enjoy the advances in refinement. Games don't have to reinvent the wheel, introduce new mechanics, or have the most mindblowing stories (FPSs are games about shooting).
What I do want from these games, like Killzone 2, is a certain level of refinement from pre-existing ideas. So far, in this game, I am loving the attention to detail, the reload animations, the "weight", and little things about the Helghast when I shoot them.
Ultimately, all I ask is a game to be fun. Not everything has to be Bioshock, Portal, or those other "artistic" games in the genre. Sometimes, a finely tuned game about shooting things is all you need.
What I do want from these games, like Killzone 2, is a certain level of refinement from pre-existing ideas. So far, in this game, I am loving the attention to detail, the reload animations, the "weight", and little things about the Helghast when I shoot them.
Ultimately, all I ask is a game to be fun. Not everything has to be Bioshock, Portal, or those other "artistic" games in the genre. Sometimes, a finely tuned game about shooting things is all you need.
I think it'd be awesome to play the Helghast side of the single player. That alone would make me love the single player immensely. Even if it wasn't "canon" and was just an alternate storyline for the hell of it.
I always hated being the "good guys".
Why can't we be the bad guys more often?
I always hated being the "good guys".
Why can't we be the bad guys more often?
For it to be good.
So far, as long as Killzone 2 will allow me to map crouch/cover to the X button, I'll be fucking excellent.
So far, as long as Killzone 2 will allow me to map crouch/cover to the X button, I'll be fucking excellent.
Let me quote one of my favorite film makers, as he puts it more eloquently than me:
"Nothing is original. Steal from anywhere that resonates with inspiration and fuels your imagination. Devour old films, new films, music, books, paintings, photographs, poems, dreams, random conversations, architecture, bridges, street signs, trees, clouds, bodies of water light and shadows. Select only things to steal from that speak directly to your soul. If you do this, your work (and theft) will be authentic. Authenticity is invaluable; originality is non-existent. And don't bother concealing your thievery - celebrate it if you feel like it. in any case, always remember what Jean-Luc Godard said: "It's not where you take things from - it is where you take them to." - Jim Jarmusch
Killzone 2 has taken me to a console multiplay experience like no other I have seen. I can't stop playing it. Had to make myself take a 15 minute break and respond to you. That is something big, for someone like me.
I think part of what Jarmusch is saying is that you have to feed TIME into the equation. I think with time, things will either become authentic, or they won't. It is still in the air for this game whether or not it is authentic, and there is no question that it isn't original, but what I REALLY care about is that, so far, when I play, I lose time. I zone out and ge INTO it. And that is a good sign.
If it didn't do it for you, that is sad, because I won't see you on the battle field, but I'm sure a game you dig will come soon that you can be excited about. In the meantime, try not to let all us who are crazy about the game drive you nuts. It's just a difference in opinion. It happens.
"Nothing is original. Steal from anywhere that resonates with inspiration and fuels your imagination. Devour old films, new films, music, books, paintings, photographs, poems, dreams, random conversations, architecture, bridges, street signs, trees, clouds, bodies of water light and shadows. Select only things to steal from that speak directly to your soul. If you do this, your work (and theft) will be authentic. Authenticity is invaluable; originality is non-existent. And don't bother concealing your thievery - celebrate it if you feel like it. in any case, always remember what Jean-Luc Godard said: "It's not where you take things from - it is where you take them to." - Jim Jarmusch
Killzone 2 has taken me to a console multiplay experience like no other I have seen. I can't stop playing it. Had to make myself take a 15 minute break and respond to you. That is something big, for someone like me.
I think part of what Jarmusch is saying is that you have to feed TIME into the equation. I think with time, things will either become authentic, or they won't. It is still in the air for this game whether or not it is authentic, and there is no question that it isn't original, but what I REALLY care about is that, so far, when I play, I lose time. I zone out and ge INTO it. And that is a good sign.
If it didn't do it for you, that is sad, because I won't see you on the battle field, but I'm sure a game you dig will come soon that you can be excited about. In the meantime, try not to let all us who are crazy about the game drive you nuts. It's just a difference in opinion. It happens.
It comes down to expectations. By everything I had heard of the game, even by its own marketing lines, I expected nothing of Killzone 2 except to be incredibly competent and incredibly good-looking. It met both of those with gusto. Will it be something we'll be talking about in a decade? Probably not, but if the multiplayer holds up it'll be something people will still be playing long after we've bought into the next generation of hardware.
Those expectations aren't as low as you might think. It didn't bring sweeping change to the gameplay environment, but all the same it contained no embarrassments, no missteps. How many games can we say have no glaring flaws?
Sometimes all we want is a game that does everything it does very well, even if it does nothing particularly new or innovative. That's also the case with a game like Saints Row 2 or an old-hat Space-Shooter like Freespace 2.
Is that worth $60? I think so.
It's way too easy in a saturated environment to judge a game by what it doesn't do instead of what it does. Don't fall into that trap. If you did, there are three things you blame: Marketing, The Public, and Yourself, in that order.
Blame marketing for not advertising the game accurately, blame the public for spreading these inaccuracies as unrealistic hype, and yourself for buying into it.
Those expectations aren't as low as you might think. It didn't bring sweeping change to the gameplay environment, but all the same it contained no embarrassments, no missteps. How many games can we say have no glaring flaws?
Sometimes all we want is a game that does everything it does very well, even if it does nothing particularly new or innovative. That's also the case with a game like Saints Row 2 or an old-hat Space-Shooter like Freespace 2.
Is that worth $60? I think so.
It's way too easy in a saturated environment to judge a game by what it doesn't do instead of what it does. Don't fall into that trap. If you did, there are three things you blame: Marketing, The Public, and Yourself, in that order.
Blame marketing for not advertising the game accurately, blame the public for spreading these inaccuracies as unrealistic hype, and yourself for buying into it.
Personally, I do want something new. The standard FPS game versus aliens or standard troopers has been done to death. If the best I can hear about Killzone 2 is "it is a very pretty shooter," then I don't see any reason I should buy it. I had the same problem with Resistance; I kept wondering what was special about it, and ended up with just another standard FPS when I played a friend's copy. They could have the best level design ever, but if it just "looks" like another brown-grey shooter, I can't possibly get interested in it. Halo got a pass because it was a console FPS forerunner and people became attached enough to the characters/universe that they fleshed it out in sequels, but if Halo launched today, I'd wonder what was special about that too.
@ Jonathan
I didn't like the game that much, but I thought that out of all the regenerating health FPS games, Halo 1 did it the best, with regenerating shields that, if you fucked up, would disappear and you'd start taking actual damage. I never understood why they got rid of that in the later games.
@ Jonathan
I didn't like the game that much, but I thought that out of all the regenerating health FPS games, Halo 1 did it the best, with regenerating shields that, if you fucked up, would disappear and you'd start taking actual damage. I never understood why they got rid of that in the later games.
@ Necros: The real question is, what new stuff do you want?
I don't understand. What else is there? Would you like to shoot something else besides soldiers or aliens?
I'd like something new also, but I can't think of much to help fill that need.
I don't understand. What else is there? Would you like to shoot something else besides soldiers or aliens?
I'd like something new also, but I can't think of much to help fill that need.
I expect Clive Barker's Undying from an FPS. I do not expect Dark Corners Of The Earth.
Thematic horror FPS aside, I like my FPS to be fun. Story does not motivate me much, because I feel like when I'm playing an FPS, I'm here to just kill shit. If the story is good, then that's just icing on a cake that may or may not be made of chocolate or shit, to be determined as one or the other by the full playthrough experience.
I like my areas to change up enough so that I feel like I'm making progress. I think I'm one of the six people on Earth who didn't like Half-Life 2. I quit in Ravenholm. Every section that I'd played through to that point felt long, slow, and forced (save for the mandatory "move your ass" bit at the beginning where you have infinite health more or less). Although each section was interesting and usually unique in relation to the others, they felt like they took forever to get through. Maybe just my play style, I don't know.
When I got to Ravenholm and got my hands on the gravity gun, I was really excited...then really pissed. Introducing a gun with a new concept to it and making me do a few tricks here and there so I can see what it's capable of is nice...but I don't want a whole fucking area dedicated to forcing me to do puzzles with a weapon while fighting off enemies. If I want puzzles with a gun, I'll play Portal.
So essentially...short, yet diverse areas...enemies should always have a decent array to them...forced puzzles should be short and not too complex (an FPS is an FPS first and foremost, not a puzzle game)...the story can come and go as it pleases.
And I'm quite sure NOBODY will agree with me on this. :P
Thematic horror FPS aside, I like my FPS to be fun. Story does not motivate me much, because I feel like when I'm playing an FPS, I'm here to just kill shit. If the story is good, then that's just icing on a cake that may or may not be made of chocolate or shit, to be determined as one or the other by the full playthrough experience.
I like my areas to change up enough so that I feel like I'm making progress. I think I'm one of the six people on Earth who didn't like Half-Life 2. I quit in Ravenholm. Every section that I'd played through to that point felt long, slow, and forced (save for the mandatory "move your ass" bit at the beginning where you have infinite health more or less). Although each section was interesting and usually unique in relation to the others, they felt like they took forever to get through. Maybe just my play style, I don't know.
When I got to Ravenholm and got my hands on the gravity gun, I was really excited...then really pissed. Introducing a gun with a new concept to it and making me do a few tricks here and there so I can see what it's capable of is nice...but I don't want a whole fucking area dedicated to forcing me to do puzzles with a weapon while fighting off enemies. If I want puzzles with a gun, I'll play Portal.
So essentially...short, yet diverse areas...enemies should always have a decent array to them...forced puzzles should be short and not too complex (an FPS is an FPS first and foremost, not a puzzle game)...the story can come and go as it pleases.
And I'm quite sure NOBODY will agree with me on this. :P
@ Negfactor
I agree whole-heartily with you.
Puzzles used in an FPS merely to break up the shooting is just plain wrong. If you have to break up the shooting, at least do it with something short and sweet, rather than a room full of barrels.
I agree whole-heartily with you.
Puzzles used in an FPS merely to break up the shooting is just plain wrong. If you have to break up the shooting, at least do it with something short and sweet, rather than a room full of barrels.
All I want is a control scheme that doesn't make me feel like a ten-thumbed retard. Great story and colors other than gray and brown are just icing on the cake.
What your saying is true and alot of the mechanics in k2 have been done before, The thing is its done so well in this game it almost seems like a new experience.This game has so much polish its crazy. even right now I can,t decribe how awesome this game is even after 2 straight days of playin it.At the end of the day its just fun plain and simple, and I would be playing it right now if I wasn't doing laundry.
@The Reborn
If the wheel gets reinvented each and every time, where then will we find things that roll properly? There's room for iterative improvement AND sea change in every genre, subgenre, and non-genre.
Contrary to your assertions, no one is FORCING you to buy anything. Neither video games nor sweeping innovations are rights that are deserved, they're luxuries to be bought. Vote with your wallet.
If the wheel gets reinvented each and every time, where then will we find things that roll properly? There's room for iterative improvement AND sea change in every genre, subgenre, and non-genre.
Contrary to your assertions, no one is FORCING you to buy anything. Neither video games nor sweeping innovations are rights that are deserved, they're luxuries to be bought. Vote with your wallet.
Yeah, I couldn't disagree more with those who say that each one should be completely different. I'm all for the introduction of new ideas, but it wouldn't be a genre if every game started from square one. And the market would full of experiments.
I'm fine with games coming along to change things. I'm fine with games sticking to the norms that we know and love. I'm fine with a mixture.Give me any one of those and I'll at least try it.
I'm still not even sure what people are complaining about. That it is derivative? See my last comment. That the controls are different? Yes they are, but they are certainly not "bad", they are just different and require a bit of play for adjustment (took me 2 days to get used to it). That it doesn't use a rainbow color pallet? That just seems like a preference, not a complaint. If you need color, go play Noby Noby Boy and let him devour your soul! LOL
I know that we are fans and we are supposed to nitpick, but in this case I guess I just don't see it. I'm not sure where all this anger is coming from. It's been like 2 days, people. Lets give it a little more time before screaming from the mountains of Internet that Killzone 2 is the worst game ever made.
And I hope those people who wanted the game to be differnt
I'm fine with games coming along to change things. I'm fine with games sticking to the norms that we know and love. I'm fine with a mixture.Give me any one of those and I'll at least try it.
I'm still not even sure what people are complaining about. That it is derivative? See my last comment. That the controls are different? Yes they are, but they are certainly not "bad", they are just different and require a bit of play for adjustment (took me 2 days to get used to it). That it doesn't use a rainbow color pallet? That just seems like a preference, not a complaint. If you need color, go play Noby Noby Boy and let him devour your soul! LOL
I know that we are fans and we are supposed to nitpick, but in this case I guess I just don't see it. I'm not sure where all this anger is coming from. It's been like 2 days, people. Lets give it a little more time before screaming from the mountains of Internet that Killzone 2 is the worst game ever made.
And I hope those people who wanted the game to be differnt
woops, cut myself short
And I hope those people who wanted the game to be vastly different from every game ever made get a game like that soon, to make them happy. But in the meantime can we all agree to disagree and go shoot each other in the face for fun.
And I hope those people who wanted the game to be vastly different from every game ever made get a game like that soon, to make them happy. But in the meantime can we all agree to disagree and go shoot each other in the face for fun.
I think there's plenty of room for both camps.
There is something to be said for a game that executes what it's trying to do very well. That type of game is certainly more enjoyable to me than a game that unsuccessfully tries something different just for the sake of being different.
On the other hand, a game that takes no chances and blends in with the rest of the crowd is no good either. I'm all for a game that brings something fresh and fun to the table, and expands what the genre is capable of.
So basically, I think it's perfectly fine to have it both ways here. I know I enjoy just as many games that are considered revolutionary as those that are considered more evolutionary.
There is something to be said for a game that executes what it's trying to do very well. That type of game is certainly more enjoyable to me than a game that unsuccessfully tries something different just for the sake of being different.
On the other hand, a game that takes no chances and blends in with the rest of the crowd is no good either. I'm all for a game that brings something fresh and fun to the table, and expands what the genre is capable of.
So basically, I think it's perfectly fine to have it both ways here. I know I enjoy just as many games that are considered revolutionary as those that are considered more evolutionary.
TF2.
Or pretty much anything else that has interesting weapons/gameplay beyond standard guns/grenades with every weapon killing you in a few shots. So that would also include Planetside, and might try out Shadowrun when I stop being too lazy to get a PC copy.
At least those are requirements for a multiplayer FPS.
Or pretty much anything else that has interesting weapons/gameplay beyond standard guns/grenades with every weapon killing you in a few shots. So that would also include Planetside, and might try out Shadowrun when I stop being too lazy to get a PC copy.
At least those are requirements for a multiplayer FPS.
If you are gonna hype any game, it better be something special. Not just "it's the same as most other stuff, well executed and fun to play but nothing new". Then again it just depends on how you let hype get to you?
KZ2 looks like a solid shooter, like how Gears 2 was a solid shooter for the other fanboys. I don't really care that much for Gears 2, so I'm just gonna guess I won't care that much for KZ2 either.
Just give us Starcraft 2 already.
KZ2 looks like a solid shooter, like how Gears 2 was a solid shooter for the other fanboys. I don't really care that much for Gears 2, so I'm just gonna guess I won't care that much for KZ2 either.
Just give us Starcraft 2 already.
I'd really like to see a Civil War/Napoleonic FPS with a major emphasis on melee combat and silly hats. Or maybe a WWI FPS with actual TRENCH WARFARE.
Ah the main draw of KZ2 was the graphics. That's it. That's the only thing it has going for it. Oh, and it's a PS3 exclusive. So, two things.
I've played Killzone 2 - it's okay. It's alright. It's fun. The Multiplayer is fun.
But no, nothing new. Nothing even remotely interesting. No iconic set pieces, no memorable characters or story. It didn't innovate in terms of mechanics and it failed to innovate even it its thematic areas.
Which is why KZ2 will be forgotten in a year. Oh the multiplayer will live on, and I'll still have fun playing it - but expect other shooters to steal its crown in the next year or two. At the end of the day, I still liked Bioshock more than Killzone, I still liked Half Life more than Killzone, I still liked Gears of War more than Killzone.
With Gears - I can remember epic moments like the water boss, and the final end fight, etc, that really stuck out in my mind. Gears of War's story might have been B-grade as all hell, but at least it was cheesy awesome - like when you get swallowed by a giant worm.
And COD4 - you had the nuke scene, the sinking ship, the fight up the damaged hotel and the sniper levels - they stand out in my mind.
Killzone 2 has...... none of that. No epic experiences or levels or iconic enemies or plot twists. I still remember the campaign, but it doesn't draw me to play it again, and it didn't give me any memorable moments.
Which is why, despite KZ2 being a very pretty, very solid and fun shooter, it will be forgotten.
I've played Killzone 2 - it's okay. It's alright. It's fun. The Multiplayer is fun.
But no, nothing new. Nothing even remotely interesting. No iconic set pieces, no memorable characters or story. It didn't innovate in terms of mechanics and it failed to innovate even it its thematic areas.
Which is why KZ2 will be forgotten in a year. Oh the multiplayer will live on, and I'll still have fun playing it - but expect other shooters to steal its crown in the next year or two. At the end of the day, I still liked Bioshock more than Killzone, I still liked Half Life more than Killzone, I still liked Gears of War more than Killzone.
With Gears - I can remember epic moments like the water boss, and the final end fight, etc, that really stuck out in my mind. Gears of War's story might have been B-grade as all hell, but at least it was cheesy awesome - like when you get swallowed by a giant worm.
And COD4 - you had the nuke scene, the sinking ship, the fight up the damaged hotel and the sniper levels - they stand out in my mind.
Killzone 2 has...... none of that. No epic experiences or levels or iconic enemies or plot twists. I still remember the campaign, but it doesn't draw me to play it again, and it didn't give me any memorable moments.
Which is why, despite KZ2 being a very pretty, very solid and fun shooter, it will be forgotten.
