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Honestly, I don't want a third movie. I want it to be left at where it was. The way they left Batman is a perfect way to leave the character.
There would also be a paradox with the Joker. You either don't show him in the third film or you recast him which will leave audiences with an equally large "Well that sucked" either way.
Also, I don't see any good way to introduce any other batman villains. In Nolan's realistic feel the villains just don't seem to fit, they're a bit cartoony.
The only logical way I see a third movie happening is Gotham going through with a full scaled hunt. But like I said, I reeeeally don't want a third. Or at least don't want Nolan to direct it (thankfully he said he doesn't want to as well, but money speaks louder than words.) Let someone else try and reach the impossibly high bar.
There would also be a paradox with the Joker. You either don't show him in the third film or you recast him which will leave audiences with an equally large "Well that sucked" either way.
Also, I don't see any good way to introduce any other batman villains. In Nolan's realistic feel the villains just don't seem to fit, they're a bit cartoony.
The only logical way I see a third movie happening is Gotham going through with a full scaled hunt. But like I said, I reeeeally don't want a third. Or at least don't want Nolan to direct it (thankfully he said he doesn't want to as well, but money speaks louder than words.) Let someone else try and reach the impossibly high bar.
I just personally feel that you included way to many characters for one movie. I think TDK did so well in terms of writing and direction because it only had one major villian that drove the storyline. Two-Face was a villian of sorts, yes, but his character development and eventual demise was brought about by the Joker. So the whole movie had one large unifying theme that kept it from going off on character tangents.
If the third installment in the franchise is going to be just as good or (hopefully) better, it needs to focus only on one theme and one or two villians/new characters that help develop that theme.
If the third installment in the franchise is going to be just as good or (hopefully) better, it needs to focus only on one theme and one or two villians/new characters that help develop that theme.
@Covah: I updated my review portion with the manner in which I'd like them to bring back the Joker, because I feel as though he deserves to be brought back.
@Sweet: Well, what I meant was that the movie would focus on Talia and her revenge while simply including the likes of Penguin and Catwoman as supporting characters. The Penguin isn't a villain who deserves "main" status anyway, and Catwoman shouldn't get caught either. They'd be in smaller roles with smaller arcs that could be left open and fleshed out/completed in even further films, because as we all know, Batman's rogues always come back. The movies should support that theme.
@Sweet: Well, what I meant was that the movie would focus on Talia and her revenge while simply including the likes of Penguin and Catwoman as supporting characters. The Penguin isn't a villain who deserves "main" status anyway, and Catwoman shouldn't get caught either. They'd be in smaller roles with smaller arcs that could be left open and fleshed out/completed in even further films, because as we all know, Batman's rogues always come back. The movies should support that theme.
Also, @Sweet: You do realize that the Talia/Penguin/Catwoman description was for a different take on the third movie than the Talia/Bane/Two-Face one, right? If Penguin and Catwoman showed up, Bane and Two-Face wouldn't and vice versa. Just clarifying. Realized that may have been confusing.
Man - I would love to see Catwoman and Penguin in the next installment - with a hint of Harley showing up near the end to show they're going to continue the Joker (I don't know about everyone else...but he's my favorite villain in this series, and as much as it is tragic and can never be fully re-created, we still need joker...)
Though - as much as Jack Nicholson was overshadowed, I really dig on Michelle Pfiefer as Catwoman...I'd be interested to see how they would do that right, or if they could.
Though - as much as Jack Nicholson was overshadowed, I really dig on Michelle Pfiefer as Catwoman...I'd be interested to see how they would do that right, or if they could.
I'm all for Dark Knight being the last...
...unless they can pull off their genius again, making the next one another totally different movie, yet still in the same universe. We'll have to see I guess.
Also no Penguin.
...unless they can pull off their genius again, making the next one another totally different movie, yet still in the same universe. We'll have to see I guess.
Also no Penguin.
@Zserv: Hey, it was just a fun exercise for me. There's a reason I don't adapt multi million dollar film franchise screenplays, haha.
Also, I definitely don't think TDK will be the last. The opening box office alone will be enough to justify another (to the studio heads) and I know Bale is still signed for a third. Whether or not Nolan wants to try and one up himself again will be up to him.
Also, I definitely don't think TDK will be the last. The opening box office alone will be enough to justify another (to the studio heads) and I know Bale is still signed for a third. Whether or not Nolan wants to try and one up himself again will be up to him.
Also, since these don't follow the comics or anything, then instead of being the Joker's underling, she could just be some ultra-obsessed crazy bitch that wants to continue his legacy.
That's very true, bbrigg1. She doesn't necessarily have to spring him from jail, either. Maybe she could continue his quest while treating him (to keep with the doctor/nurse origin), and they could avoid having to recast the Joker and instead keep him locked away in the shadows and just find a voice actor who could recreate Ledger's.
All I know is I wanna see a "Joker-fied" version of her costume. I'm thinking hand sewn red and black checkered suit with a ragged and destroyed head piece and sloppy make-up, just like the Joker's. Also, a propensity for hitting people with sledgehammers and shooting them with revolvers is a must (I pretty much just want to see her own magic trick).
All I know is I wanna see a "Joker-fied" version of her costume. I'm thinking hand sewn red and black checkered suit with a ragged and destroyed head piece and sloppy make-up, just like the Joker's. Also, a propensity for hitting people with sledgehammers and shooting them with revolvers is a must (I pretty much just want to see her own magic trick).
Is that picture in your banner from The Dark Knight Returns? I'm not a huge comic guy but I do own a few good ones and that one looks familiar to me. Am I right?
@EDS: Yes, indeedy. I don't read many comics either but I pride myself on having quite a few of the "core/classic" Batman collections as well as The Watchmen, Sandman, Fables, and Ex Machina collections.
I don't want another Batman movie set in "the real world" as these two past films have been. They've already used all the villains that have the three traits necessary to work in this kind of film; name recognition, relative realism, and psychological depth. Ras, Scarecrow, Joker and Two-Face have those things.
Penguin? Not so much in the depth department. Talia? No one knows who she is. Riddler? He's the corniest Batman villain ever. I love him, but dude is corny. He wouldn't fit in the "Batman Begins" world.
Catwoman could work....maybe. As a concept, she's a little too silly for my book, but if they made her really crazy and really angry, then it could work. But they couldn't wrap a whole movie around her.
I'm racking my brain for other Batman villains that would work in this sort of film. Killer Croc? Nope. ScarFace? Nope. Poison Ivy? Hell nope. Maybe Black Mask, but probably not. Deathstroke? Damian? As cool as they all are, they wouldn't be believable.
I just can't see how another Batman film in this style could be different enough or improved enough from the prior films to warrant it's own existence. I'm sure a third film will happen, but I can't see how it could equal The Dark Knight.
Penguin? Not so much in the depth department. Talia? No one knows who she is. Riddler? He's the corniest Batman villain ever. I love him, but dude is corny. He wouldn't fit in the "Batman Begins" world.
Catwoman could work....maybe. As a concept, she's a little too silly for my book, but if they made her really crazy and really angry, then it could work. But they couldn't wrap a whole movie around her.
I'm racking my brain for other Batman villains that would work in this sort of film. Killer Croc? Nope. ScarFace? Nope. Poison Ivy? Hell nope. Maybe Black Mask, but probably not. Deathstroke? Damian? As cool as they all are, they wouldn't be believable.
I just can't see how another Batman film in this style could be different enough or improved enough from the prior films to warrant it's own existence. I'm sure a third film will happen, but I can't see how it could equal The Dark Knight.
I'm going to have so side with Jonathon on this one. The defining aspect of the most recent reincarnation of Batman as a franchise has been the realism and plausibility of the plot. I think that if Bane or even (god help me) Robin as a traitor sort of thing were toned down, in many respects it could work. Outside of that, however, it seems bleak. I think that whatever the third film is about, it'll suffer in comparison to TDK, but thats the issue with genius I guess; it's often a once in a lifetime thing.
Riddler is my fave Bat villain, so I'd love to see him handled in the new form. I don't know much bout the other suggestions, other than I think a third film would not want to repeat some of the previous bat movies villain for villain. So I can keep my fingers crossed for Riddler, but it's odds against.
I'm thinking they will go more obscure with someone more in line with Nolan's storytelling. Zsasz fits that... Ventriloquist would be extra creepy.
When they go after Clayface, Penguin, Poison Ivy, those characters wander into the fantastical and the movies will sort of have to jump ship to that realm. UNLESS Nolan and crew continue to reinvent interpretations of those characters, which after DK is fine with me.
I'm thinking they will go more obscure with someone more in line with Nolan's storytelling. Zsasz fits that... Ventriloquist would be extra creepy.
When they go after Clayface, Penguin, Poison Ivy, those characters wander into the fantastical and the movies will sort of have to jump ship to that realm. UNLESS Nolan and crew continue to reinvent interpretations of those characters, which after DK is fine with me.
The Penguin and Catwoman have promise because of where the second movie left Batman. His ties to the community and the love of his life (and hence a chance for a normal life) have been severed definitively. The Penguin can be an aspect of society that accepts certain levels of criminality. He can be the upstanding member who cares little for any rules as long as he gets away it. The anti Lucius Fox. Someone who says dealing drugs is OK as long as we don't have gang wars. Some people might agree with that. Would Batman? Catwoman's allure is striking because she represents the anti Rachel. Someone to get Bruce Wayne to fully engage in his anti social tendencies. Those are two dangerous forces to engage with given Batman's precarious status as an outcast.
I'm surprised no one's even mentioned Mr. Freeze. The man's back story is actually one of some depth and emotion and neatly parallels Batman's own recent loss. I'm constantly hoping something in live action comes along to wash the taste of Arnold as Freeze out of my mouth.
@Jon: I highly suggest you read the two IGN articles I linked to in the beginning of my write up. They outline a solid 20 or so villains, both mainstream and obscure, and how they could work within Nolan's established universe.
Plus, I would argue not many non-Batman fans knew who the hell either Ra's or the Scarecrow were. I know my parents didn't. To claim they have "name recognition" in comparison to characters like the Penguin, Catwoman, and the Riddler is outright wrong. Despite how sad the series was in hindsight, a lot of older people associate Batman with the campy Adam West show and all those characters had huge recurring roles. Plus the fact they're pretty core villains, both in the comics and the animated TV show.
You also have to realize I mention Talia, Penguin, and Catwoman all in the same movie exactly because they don't offer enough depth to support a movie on their own, but intertwining tales could work.
@Edco: I know people think Riddler is dumb, but all I can think of is a movie with a plot akin to Se7en and how he would plan a really fucked up "riddle" for Batman to solve, which would also end up killing a bunch of people in twisted ways.
Not to mention the fact Kevin Spacey would be amazing as the Riddler exactly for that reason.
@Bus: Exactly. I totally agree.
Plus, I would argue not many non-Batman fans knew who the hell either Ra's or the Scarecrow were. I know my parents didn't. To claim they have "name recognition" in comparison to characters like the Penguin, Catwoman, and the Riddler is outright wrong. Despite how sad the series was in hindsight, a lot of older people associate Batman with the campy Adam West show and all those characters had huge recurring roles. Plus the fact they're pretty core villains, both in the comics and the animated TV show.
You also have to realize I mention Talia, Penguin, and Catwoman all in the same movie exactly because they don't offer enough depth to support a movie on their own, but intertwining tales could work.
@Edco: I know people think Riddler is dumb, but all I can think of is a movie with a plot akin to Se7en and how he would plan a really fucked up "riddle" for Batman to solve, which would also end up killing a bunch of people in twisted ways.
Not to mention the fact Kevin Spacey would be amazing as the Riddler exactly for that reason.
@Bus: Exactly. I totally agree.
Two very good blogs here, B-Radicate. I especially liked your point about the jarring, fast-moving fight scenes from the other blog. I couldn't quite put my finger on what was bothering me, but you nailed it.
Immediately after seeing TDK, the only thing I could think of was "Bane...?" for the next film's direction. I'm just not sure where else they could go without getting too ridiculous or corny. I mean, the whole "serious crime drama" angle works so well because the characters are rooted in realism. Bane could work with this.
"So what about Robin?" was the other question I had. Robin is a huge part of the whole Batman story, isn't he? The only thing is that people will likely facepalm at anyone who would be chosen for the role (lol Shia LaBeouf). I'd give Nolan and crew the benefit of the doubt, though.
Immediately after seeing TDK, the only thing I could think of was "Bane...?" for the next film's direction. I'm just not sure where else they could go without getting too ridiculous or corny. I mean, the whole "serious crime drama" angle works so well because the characters are rooted in realism. Bane could work with this.
"So what about Robin?" was the other question I had. Robin is a huge part of the whole Batman story, isn't he? The only thing is that people will likely facepalm at anyone who would be chosen for the role (lol Shia LaBeouf). I'd give Nolan and crew the benefit of the doubt, though.
"In the wake of this dramatic power shift propelled by the Joker’s actions in TDK, Oswald Cobblepot (everyone’s favorite bowtie wearing gangster, the Penguin) would move into town as Gotham’s new high-priced club/restaurant owner and backroom arms/information dealer. He would be Talia’s connection to guns and supplies for her League of Assassins while also making a splash (sorry) as the owner of Gotham’s new favorite hotspot, the Iceburg Club. "
That is all WAY too Joel Schummacer sounding for me, sorry! I mean come on, the Iceburg Club??
You know what? Killer Croc might actually work. Just imagine him all grunged up and shit, like the joker.
That is all WAY too Joel Schummacer sounding for me, sorry! I mean come on, the Iceburg Club??
You know what? Killer Croc might actually work. Just imagine him all grunged up and shit, like the joker.
@Superhobo: I didn't make that up. That's the actual name of the Penguin's famous club/restaurant in Gotham. Sorry.
Also, Killer Croc could only work if they take the Animated Series route and make him a deformed circus freak more than a mutated crocodile man. Too bad the animated Gotham Knight (?) anime series used him (and Deadshot) and those were to serve as the stories between Begins and TDK.
Also, Killer Croc could only work if they take the Animated Series route and make him a deformed circus freak more than a mutated crocodile man. Too bad the animated Gotham Knight (?) anime series used him (and Deadshot) and those were to serve as the stories between Begins and TDK.
