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My name is Brad. My DToid name and GT are both derived from my nickname, B-rad. Not Radicate the Pokemon. Shame on you.

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F**K GTAIV (well, parts of it anyway)
B-Radicate | 7:28 PM on 05.21.2008 27 comments


Okay, I was going to wait and add this to a proper Monthly Musings post later this week after I (likely) finish the storyline in GTAIV, but I simply can't wait anymore. I need to get my hatred and frustration off my chest.

What could possibly make me throw a controller in frustration amidst the gameplay of the highest reviewed game ever? What aspect of the guaranteed GOTY could make me wanna slit a man's throat? I'll tell you what... relationships.

Now, I know a lot of people have talked a lot of shit about how annoying the relationships in IV often are, but honestly, I never had a problem with them up until about 2 minutes ago when a series of events TAKEN COMPLETELY OUT OF MY HANDS by the game initiated my utter loathing of the feature. Let me tell you my story, my story let me tell you it.

Now, as was previously stated, I actually liked the relationship feature in the game up until this following series of events. I thought they offered a nice distraction from the single player campaign and filled a boredom gap that used to be filled by the likes of pizza delivery, fire truck, ambulance missions, car customization, property buying, business profit gathering, etc. in older titles. Since IV lacks most of these side quests, I've found the relationships rather pleasant. Up until now.

I booted up IV this evening specifically to try and get my relationship level up with Packie. I've been neglecting to call the guy but really want his ability unlocked just to get it over with. I generally find that after you have a person's ability unlocked you don't have to call them because they call you, so you know when you're in need of hanging out with them to keep their levels up.


Duuuuuuuuuuuh... I'm a fucktard.

So I started playing and played a mission or two and decided it was time to give Packie a call. Now, his "like" level for me at this point was 77%, so I figured one or two more instances of hanging out and I'd unlock his ability. I proceeded to call him at 13:04 game time (1:00 in the afternoon) and he answered saying he was hungover from the night before and I should call back some time after 4:00 in the afternoon or 16:00 (the reason the game switches between military time and standard time telling is really fucking beyond me at this point). His "like" then dropped 15 whole percent for me calling him while he was sleeping. In the afternoon. Fuck me, but I guess that's partially my fault, but honestly? 15%? You serious, Rockstar?

So to kill time I went and found a speedboat so I could get the two water-based hidden jumps (fuck a spoiler warning on that). I found one and, literally RIGHT BEFORE I hit one of the jumps Packie calls me, I quick hit 'A' (I play on 360) to answer his call but the boat hits the jump and the cinematic FORCES ME TO HANG UP ON HIM. This results in another 4% drop in his "like" for me. Awesomesauce. I'm real jazzed about this at this point.

So then I get onto dry land and grab a car and call him right away to drink. He's psyched and really wants to go. Now, I landed my boat near Bohan so that I would be relatively close to his Ma's house. He tells me to "meet me at his place." Cool. Only, wait, this time "his place" is ACROSS THE FUCKING MAP on some random street corner. This means that I definitely won't make it there "within the hour." Double Mint Fresh Cool.

On my way to pick him up, as I'm speeding through traffic I get a call from the Paper Company dude telling me to meet someone (I'll hide as much as I can) to finish a mission I did like twenty minutes ago. Now, I decide to screw the mission and meet Packie, only when I get there, he DISAPPEARS from the corner he was standing on. The game FORCES ME to finish the mission. So, reluctantly, I drive across town, meet the guy, finish the mission. Bada bing bada boom.

I chalk up Packie disappearing to a glitch or anomaly in the game and call him back, only he doesn't answer his phone (it's the early evening again game-time by this point thanks to the mission taking so long). As I get out of my vehicle to look for a new one I get a text from Packie saying he "didn't know what happened to me, but it was real fucking uncool of me to stand him up like that." His like dropped a straight 20 fucking percent in an instant. Excuse me? All I wanted to do in-game for the past 25 minutes was hang out with the dude and instead I get dropped 39% in a matter of minutes? Fuck YOU, Rockstar.

This whole story brings up my major complaints with the relationship system. The first of course being the whole cinematic thing. I didn't hang up on the dude, the game did. Fuck that affecting my levels like that.

Second point, why the fuck does everyone expect you to meet them within a damn hour? It's mother fucking impossible to do because if you're too close to a person when you call, ya know, 'cause you were strategically choosing when to call, the game FORCES you to pick the person up in an area outside of a one minute drive EVERY time. That INSTANTLY drops their like for you when you pick them up. Shouldn't the time scale to a more reasonable amount depending on how far away you are? Like, make it a little challenging and force the player to drop what their doing and drive like a bat outta hell, sure, but give me one minute to cross two fucking islands? Screw you.


Hey, hello. What's up? Am I doing something? Yes, yes I am. What? Huh? You don't care? But... Fuck me? But... *click*

This brings me to my next point, that being the use of your date book in your phone. Fact is, you never fucking use the thing. I've been on one mission (I'm over 54% through the game) where you set a date and then in a day had to be somewhere specifically. Why is that everyone who calls you has to hang out with you RIGHT THEN? When you get called you either say, "Yes," and fail sprinting across town to meet them or you hang up and lose points automatically. Why is it not possible to request a day and time IN THE FUTURE when you could meet them and then have it added to your schedule in your datebook? That way, the player would strategically have to plan ahead and meet them appropriately, maybe even sometimes AT the place you want to meet instead of playing chauffeur all the fucking time, which would be FAR MORE realistic than somebody getting pissed at you for not being able to teleport like Nightcrawler upon their every whim and desire. Maybe they could even stand YOU up, adding frustration for sure, but make it quite a bit more realistic, which is somehow what they claim the system is currently, which is a blatant crock of shit.

In addition to all this, I have a general hatred for the system when I am on a date with one person and get a call from another. The same 'yes/no' mechanic applies, which means I ditch one person or lose points with another. I believe that if I'm in the middle of a mission or date with someone else there should be a legitimate 'I'm doing something, forgive me' option that would not drop your levels with the person. I mean, let's face it, we've all been delivering a package or tailing a dirty cop and had Roman request to go see some BEEG AMERICAN TEETEES or something. If I'm in the middle of a legit mission or sidequest, I want the game to recognize it and not rape me for it.

So, that is my rant. I have officially joined the party of people who condemn Rockstar for including such a shitty gameplay mechanic into their magnum opus title. Now, do I think relationships could work in future titles? Sure, even just my four basic fixes, if implemented, could make the system that much more forgiving, enjoyable, and realistic, but there are certainly more ways in which to improve upon the experience.

Your thoughts, Dtoiders?



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26 comments | showing # 1 to 26
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taumpytears's Avatar - Comment posted on 05/21/2008 19:46
taumpytears
Personally I did not like GTAIV. I can appreciate that it is a very well made game and if you are in to that type of thing it is the bee's knees. Its really just a matter of opinion I suppose.
covah's Avatar - Comment posted on 05/21/2008 19:49
covah
There really are so many annoyances I have with GTA. One of them is mainly the fact that most missions just end up with you chasing someone in a car.

But the one biggest fucking thing that annoys me is the fact that theres no friggen menu! When I'm in multiplayer and get disconnected from a match, I DON'T WANT TO FUCKING GO BACK TO SINGLE PLAYER. NO! It's fucking annoying!
NotAZombie's Avatar - Comment posted on 05/21/2008 19:52
NotAZombie
Big. American. Titties. That is all.
TrailerParkJesus's Avatar - Comment posted on 05/21/2008 19:54
TrailerParkJesus
I wanted to read the whole thing, but I haven't progressed as far and got this feeling that there might be spoilers.

But I will tell you about this one little "cheat" that somewhat works. When someone calls you to go do something, accept their invite. Then after they hang up, call them right back to cancel. You get the "thumbs up" when you accept, but don't get a penalty for canceling, AS FAR AS I CAN TELL.

So far, the part I hate the most is delivering crap for Lil Jacob when he gives you shitty cars and a time limit. His "like" just keeps going down and down.
Corak's Avatar - Comment posted on 05/21/2008 20:03
Corak
I've had similar instances happen a few times. On a mission, running from the cops or steaming to an objective and some fucktard calls wanting to hang out. Now in real life that could feasibly happen, but if I've got a legimate excuse, i.e. I'm getting fucking shot at, the other person would understand. And if they don't to bad.

I've had time now to think back since I've finished the game and can now plan who I'd like to get to 100% in the friendship meter. Now that I know that I can plan accordingly. But I did definatly feel your pain.
B-Radicate's Avatar - Comment posted on 05/21/2008 20:08
B-Radicate
@TrailerParkJesus: There really aren't any spoilers except for the fact you get missions from a guy who works for a paper company. I didn't explicitly detail anything. Please, feel free to read the whole thing if you're still interested.

Also, I know for a fact sometimes you get a thumbs down for canceling. It's happened to me before, whether or not it happens all the time is unknown to me.

@Corak: I'm sure in the end it may prove useless to have Packie be a friend, but I just want it up high enough that he calls me so I don't hafta worry about calling him.
ajaxender's Avatar - Comment posted on 05/21/2008 20:13
ajaxender
Im pretty sure that if you are on a mission you dont lose any points when Niko automatically turns people down. Other than that, those are some valid points. It hasnt upset me as much as you, but im not really trying to make them all like me yet. The only one ive got to 100% is kate because i wanted to get her in the sack just to stick it to her 'friendship'.
B-Radicate's Avatar - Comment posted on 05/21/2008 20:15
B-Radicate
I really hope this doesn't look as shitty on everyone's computer as it does on mine. I wrote it on my dad's in Word and viewing it on their it looks fine, all nice and spaced out and such, but I came upstairs and looked at it on my computer and it looks like balls.

All the apostrophes are f'ed up and everything. Shit.
bmdubya's Avatar - Comment posted on 05/21/2008 20:33
bmdubya
I have have had a few similar moments like this. It really does frustrate me that you only have an hour to pick someone up. I wish you could say you would be there in 2 hours or in the future, like you said.

One time when I was out with Packie, I decided to punch a random dude to see what Packie would do. The guy started to attack me, and Packie started to attack him. Then the cops came and I decided to shoot some cops. I was starting to get into a cop car, and Packie ran to the passenger side. Then out of nowhere a cop car came flying towards us and ran over Packie. On the bottom of the screen it said "Your friend has been damaged too much." Then I look and I get a thumbs up from Packie and he disappeared. Very strange haha.
B-Radicate's Avatar - Comment posted on 05/21/2008 20:38
B-Radicate
@bmdubya: I went to a strip club with Roman one time (like he asks to go anywhere else) and I went to the one on the third island and there was a pigeon sitting outside the entrance so I pulled out my pistol and shot it, thinking I better do it before I forget, only the bouncer whipped out a pistol and started firing at me.

Roman, the good cousin that he is, ran at the guy to punch him (since he was unarmed) but the guy kept firing at me. He popped one right in Roman's noggin and I got the "your friend has been injured too much" message, too.

Afraid I'd screw over the game, I rebooted an old save to be safe. That's the last time I do anything overtly dangerous on a date ever again, haha.
Jonathan Holmes's Avatar - Comment posted on 05/21/2008 20:43
Jonathan Holmes
Woah! You were working of a "If You love it: Change it" piece for GTA IV? Me too!

So, it's a race then...

If you win, please try to mention in your piece how much more awesome GTA would be if it had a premise beyond "This out of town BADASS is here to kick some ASS and be BAD!" that every game in the series has relied on.

Some suggestions include making the game more like Falling Down (regular guy just can't take it anymore), The Legend of Billy Jean (regular hot chick just can't take it anymore), The Sopranos (regular guy tries to keep a life of crime from his family) or Bullworth (tax payers, tax payers, take it in the rear).

If you include those thoughts in your piece, I'll promote it myself.
B-Radicate's Avatar - Comment posted on 05/21/2008 20:54
B-Radicate
@JH: Well, since I still have quite a ways to go until I finish the storyline (a personal requirement for me to write the Monthly Musing) why don't you go ahead and write yours and I'll write up a pseudo-sequel to it.

Mine was likely going to focus on a lot more gameplay enhancements than storyline stuff. I actually like the current "immigrant" story MUCH more than the "random guy escapes from jail," "old coke kingpin becomes new coke kingpin," and "gangsta gets out of jail and is gangsta" tales from the old games. I just feel IV is much more gripping in that respect.
Eschatos's Avatar - Comment posted on 05/21/2008 21:33
Eschatos
Sounds like not fun, but I'm willing to completely ignore it when I get it.
Stanley Pain's Avatar - Comment posted on 05/21/2008 21:57
Stanley Pain
The dating/friend stuff wouldn't be so bad and would have been a worthy addition to the game if you only needed to achieve a certain "like" level ONCE. After unlocking the ability, it should have STAYED unlocked, plain and simple. It's retarded to have to keep seeing someone to keep the ability up. Yes, I know it's "realistic", but it isn't "fun."
Regardless, there IS a way around it. Date someone until you get the ability you want, and from then on, anytime they call you, agree to whatever plans they want. Then, call them back to cancel the plans. Cancelling doesn't lower an NPCs liking of you. At least, not until someone decides to fix it with a patch.
Tubatic's Avatar - Comment posted on 05/21/2008 22:41
Tubatic
I actually got into the fact that people call at some of the worst times. Maybe its a step to far into realism, but you can't please all of the people all of the time.

It took away from barreling through the story, but I kind of liked the flow it enforced. After calling in some guns or calling in a date perk, I felt a little "obligation" to hang out with them afterwards. Its kept me from burning out a bit on fetch and exterminate sort of missions. Plus Jacob and Brucie are fun to listen to.

My biggest tip for you is to become much more familiar with the cab services around town. Hailing cab, or even getting in the way of one with your car long enough to hail them, tends to be mostly easy. The benefit is, if you skip the ride at the extra cost (its small), you can basically warp to your destination. Plus, if you hail that cab again right when you get out, you've got yourself transportation to your event. Not the most impressive ride for dates, but it lets you just enjoy the dialog and not worry about accidentally grabbing a star or flinging your date off a motorcycle.

But yeah. The auto phone calls after and for missions can be annoying if, for example, that mission resulted in getting a massive star rating. Nothing sucks more than being successful, getting paid, running, ad then all of a sudden slowing down to answer your phone. You're stuck listening to the call, but you're still getting plugged with bullets! Then, you're slapped with hospital fees that pretty much negate the cash reward you just got!
Dynamic Sheep's Avatar - Comment posted on 05/21/2008 22:44
Dynamic Sheep
I found something that might be helpful. I was on my way to hang out with Brucie when I got a call from Roman to hang out. I told him ok, and picked up Brucie. I figured, since the game had Roman call me right after Brucie, that maybe we could all hang out. I pick up Brucie, and Roman's blip disappeared, so I called him to tell him I couldn't hang out. When I did, his "like" of me didn't go down at all.

I agree with you though... the relationship system is flawed, and should've been worked on a little while longer.
Dan CiTi's Avatar - Comment posted on 05/21/2008 23:05
Dan CiTi
Didn't your mama teach you that no matter how hard you try, you can't make everyone like you?

honestly, a setting time/locations feature for dates would be very nice.
aj2good4you2's Avatar - Comment posted on 05/22/2008 00:33
aj2good4you2
seems like u were just very unlucky. as for the driving across the map part, i always just use a taxi. even if its across the map the taxi can warp u there with about 30 game minutes to spare.i guess not too many people realize how convenient the taxi service is.
Samit Sarkar's Avatar - Comment posted on 05/22/2008 00:57
Samit Sarkar
I agree 100%. Frankly, I find most of the relationship stuff rather annoying, and if I could turn it off without putting my cell phone on ‘sleep’ (which turns all the story off), I would. All the activities get really old after a while, and I’m tired of Katie criticizing my outfit when I’ve got a fucking suit on. That prissy bitch wouldn’t know classy if it put its dick in her mouth. Which I am eventually aiming to do.
Samit Sarkar's Avatar - Comment posted on 05/22/2008 01:02
Samit Sarkar
*Kate, not Katie
Sarin's Avatar - Comment posted on 05/22/2008 02:30
Sarin
@Samit

Hell yeah, what's everyone's problem with suits. My number 1 priority in GTA games is to get a suit to wear and there's always someone who talks shit about it.

Luckily its mostly passing strangers, and all GTA players know how to properly correct someone's fashion sense ;P
galagabug 's Avatar - Comment posted on 05/22/2008 08:21
galagabug
hehe, i played thru this game too fast, and didn't bother with the relationships. i don't know why, but i really didn't need any of the 'abilities'. just nades. gta iv should have just been called nades.
B-Radicate's Avatar - Comment posted on 05/22/2008 09:15
B-Radicate
@aj2good4you2: See, what I didn't realize was that warping saved time. I thought when I road the taxi (for the Achievement... I know) that the clock just warped ahead as long as it would have taken for the taxi to get their normally.

Which brings up the matter that warping in a taxi ride really shouldn't save you any time. You're skipping the video of driving in the taxi, not jumping in a damn wormhole and appearing at the other end.

Can you warp from anywhere on the map and still have the skipped taxi ride take the same amount of time? 'Cause if so, that's honestly quite dumb, in my opinion.
aj2good4you2's Avatar - Comment posted on 05/22/2008 20:20
aj2good4you2
while its not very realistic and maybe dumb, it sure is convenient as hell. i dont ever find myself actually driving anywhere, i always use a taxi!
Timmeh's Avatar - Comment posted on 05/30/2008 11:03
Timmeh
For every little detail that had the critics fapping, it seems they throw some totally shit mechanic in. The relationships fuck me off too. Little Jacob's missions were easy on the whole but there was one where it gets you to deliver a package to a subway under the road under a bridge and the GPS system totally FAILS at pointing it out.

Cue 10 fails because there was no suggestion as to where to fucking go.

Then again, I usually end up getting mad with relationships and shooting my company in the face with the combat shotgun. Always funny to see them get up and demand to be taken home after that.
B-Radicate's Avatar - Comment posted on 05/31/2008 13:54
B-Radicate
Sadly, I unlocked Packie's special ability the other day. At 78% on the 'like' scale, no less. That means I literally only needed one more fucking play date with him.

Damn you, Rockstar.
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