Hi all,
This is my first blog so greetings!
As I'm sure you gathered from the title, I just want to ask a quick question and try and gauge some kind of genuine response from the community.
I bought KillZone 2 not long after release. I wasn't particularly sucked in by the hype, and the beautiful graphics were kind of lost on me because I just flat-out never liked the art style - brilliant particle effects and incredible lighting don't really mean much when the entire world is grey and ugly - and so it was with an extremely open mind that I played through the gaame.
From almost the minute I started playing I found it to be one of the most lacklustre gaming experiences of my life. It felt like a game constructed entirely by committee with no personal touches, flair or imagination applied at any point. I won't bother talking about the controls (rest assured they ruined the whole experience), but what really disappointed me was the lack of a soul. I just found the whole experience truly boring, which surprised me since I play a LOT of games and never really tire of the usual FPS shtick as seen in CoD, Half-Life, Fallout etc.
As for online, I tried to get into it. I play a lot of games online, and I usually prefer this to offline gaming, but KZ2's multiplayer just felt like a mess to me. Controls aside (again), I was turned off by the imbalanced classes, the number of bullets required to kill a single enemy, the pointless ribbon attainment... the whole thing just felt really lacking in any kind of substance to me.
Lag also contributed a lot to my online experience, it must be said. I live in Hong Kong and the only choice for finding dedicated servers was to play in European matches, so enemies tended to die up to 3 seconds after I'd finished shooting them and much of my time playing was spent firing bullets into people who weren't actually where they seemed to be on my screen. Which was rubbish, as I'm sure you can imagine.
My overall senasation when playing KZ2 was just...it's really not a very good game. Poor design choices were made at every step of the way IMO, and aesthetically, aurally and in terms of atmosphere, I was left impressed in a "wow, shiny technology" sort of way, but not actually moved in the slightest. As I said, it left me just kind of bored. And my teammates were all douches [single player].
Given the hype and the promise this game had to fulfill, I'm not surprised at the high review scores it received, but what I want to know is this: if you (the Destructoid audience) objectively look at the time you spent playing this game [quasi-oxymoronic statement], strip away the need for it be revered as a qualifier for your PS3 purchase, ignore the potential ostrication for not giving an automatic 10, and really analyse the time you spent playing....what did you really think of the game?
If you liked it, what was it that drew you in? If you didn't like it, why not?
Thoughts, gentlemen.
[Depending on the success of this blog, I shall later be asking the same of PoP, another game which left be ice cold and questioning the sanity of the gaming community...]
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The online does lag and our clan battles have ended in draw 2 out of 3 times because of the crap servers.
To be fair you seem like the person that just likes to stir up shit.
I would say you just kind of shot yourself in the foot there though by proclaiming that story and character give a game soul. I thought even the staunchest of KZ2 defenders acknowledged that the characters were uber irritating (especialy Rico), and the story/setting just generic FPS nonsense that could be interposed onto any Warhammer 40K-esque Power Armour, Heavy Weapons, Evil Dictator franchise. I mean your squad is called 'Alpha' for christ's sake, how long do you think it took the writers to come up with that?
Any more thoughts?
Also, I was on the wrong side of that war and the ISA should never have won anything. The only reason the ISA ever did win anything was because of the players actions. Even in CoD although it is you doing pretty much everything there's still that sense of other stuff going on and it not being you vs the other army. In KZ2, my army was so useless it did feel like that.
To tell you the truth, I played & enjoyed COD4 & CODW@W alot more. I think they should have added alot more depth to the online and had more classes. I leveled up to the max before I had the game for a week. I still think that KZ2 is a good game though. Its not RE5 good, or Fallout 3 good, but its not Haze.
The only thing I'd suggest is to not attack anyone in the future if they like something you don't. I know you didn't do that here and I appreciate that, especially for your first blog. Also as we say welcome...don't suck.
Perhaps I phrased things incorrectly, because it's not so much that I feel like I don't get something that everyone else does, but rather that I wanted to see who can give logical arguments for the game's design choices and atmosphere etc. removed from the undenialby rose-tinted spectacles which most people wear when playing a AAA title such as this one.
Given the massive hype and (IMO) ridiculously consistent review scores, I wanted to see if I was the only one who genuinely sat back at one point or another and thought "actually, this just isn't fun".
@Jim
Is that like how I hate myself for being so awesome?
Like Corak I was smiling from start to finish.
This game has got body and soul. The visuals, the sounds and music (Joris de Man created an epic score!) and the controls. Yes I said it, the controls are rock solid. (change it to 'alternative 2' and it's exactly like Call of Duty). You have to work for it. It feels heavy and dirty. The A.I. is another great thing. The Helghast reactions depend on the weapon you're carrying. They actively search for cover. I've played so many games where the enemy hides behind something and pop-up every 3 seconds on the exact same point. You just have to wait and shoot them in the head. Nothing to it. In Killzone they duck, move to the other end of the cover and shoot.
It might not suit you. That's possible, it happens sometimes. I mean Half-Life is a great game. I can see that even though I don't like it. It's just not for me. Killzone might just not be something for you.
The multi-player is as balanced as you can get. For every class there is a class to counter it. It might look unbalanced at first yes. Of course it does! I mean you don't expect to rape somebody ranked a General while you're still a Private. If you don't want to end up in a match like that you just create your own. You can change almost everything to your own taste and needs. Ribbons are great, but you have to work for them. Don't get me wrong, I respect your opinion but how can you say something about the multi-player when you've only played it a couple of times. I'm not saying you're doing it but I've heard these things so many times: "You can't even...", "You don't even have..." and "This game sucks, that guy has...". While you CAN and HAVE the thing's they were talking about. They just haven't played it enough. Multi-player is a hard thing to rate. You have to play it a lot before you see it's potential. While you probably don't do it if you don't like it immediately.
As for the lag. I haven't seen anything as bad as you describe. I'm living in Europe and play on the US servers. Doesn't make any difference. Great thing about this game when you compare it to Call of Duty is that there's no host. I can't count the times I played a terrible lagging match because some douchebag had dail-up speed. And you can't act like a fucking kid and leave so the match is over in 3 seconds. Sure the clan matches were horrible. But that's not only Guerrilla's fault. The first time Sony did some server maintenance and the second time it had to do something with the update. You can't say they're not working on it. The time we actually played a Clan Match is was awesome and no lag at all. Not even for me living in Europe.
I could go on for hours until I've written another blog in the comments here but to cut a long story short:
I'll be playing this game until Killzone 3 comes out. And probably even longer.
Biased!
God forbid the controls are different from every other hover-gun experience. Lets just re-skin COD4 for every new FPS for the rest of time. GG did something different. I've played KZ2 lots more than I have W@W, and I think this is a big factor in that. W@W was old hat from the get-go. Objectively and without assigning value to either, you have the ability to play the game or you do not. It's ok if you aren't compatible with KZ2. I can't handle Echochrome at all.
The badges for Killzone 2 actually give players a reason to play all the classes. If you don't play the classes, you don't unlock secondary abilities and can't combine them with other classes. The only thing I really want to change is giving the assault class a 3rd weapon type so I feel like using it.
Even the lag was good. In other games, people would just soak up bullets and ignore them. If one party in that exchange is laggy in Killzone 2, they might make it a few feet or shoot me back, but unless someone has pulled the plug on their connection, I've always gotten the kill when I shot someone. I have yet to empty a magazine into someone only to have them teleport away. Divine perfection of netcode? No, but I've played games with much lower requirements that come off as a worse experience. Tekken 5 DR on PSN for example. Is it really so hard to send commands from two players? KZ2 works substantially better with an additional 30.
"Genuinely enjoy" nothing. This is one of the few games that I will make time for. I will be online for clan games and I will be putting great big sniper bullets into those beta jerks. It's just a high quality experience all around. Miss COD or Burnout? They're good, but so is the food at the pub down the road.
Then I just forgot about it.
I felt like the game (single player) was really immersive, partly due to the graphics, but mainly due to the sound.
Also, I loved the final battle.. great fun!
The friendly AI were annoying, but I'm starting to think that was the point. In war, you don't get to pick who your squad is, and perhaps (a big perhaps), GG was trying to show you the type of meatheads you get lumped with when you join the ISA or any other space army. Even in real life, I've met a couple of Ricos.
I stopped playing MP because of W@W and Resi5, but I plan to go back so I can upgrade my shitty medic.
Finally, that level with the mushroom cloud is fucking awesome.
Still, I feel obligated to share my experience.
I love the single player. In fact, I am still playing it. I'm taking it slow because in most cases I'd rather be playing multi with my friends. So while I may play like 3 to 5 multi sessions a week (including FNF, which is the greatest), I usually only hit the single for like an hour a week. I think that taking it slow may make the single player feel fresh each time and it keeps me looking forward to completing it. I took a similar slow drip approach to deadspace and enjoyed that more than most folks as well. With KZ2 I pretty much feel like I am the lead character in a cheesy scifi movie, and can you really ask for more than that? No the story isn't HalfLife2 caliber, but it gives a really organic look at war, I think, or at least the closest thing to that you'll see in a video game at the present.
Still, the multi is where it is at, and I can see it having a LONG lifespan, especially if they support it well (those new maps they showed on GTTV last night look SWEET!) So I can safely say that I foresee myself playing this for years, or at least until the next one comes out because it FEELS so different and I don't think I can get a similar experience anywhere else.
I think that KZ2 has to endure an amazing amount of pressure from both sides - you have hype (from the sony fanboys, because Sony gets picked apart so much and they constantly feel like they are on the defensive) and hate (from the 360 fanboys, because they can't stand the idea of a better FPS being on another system). And that is why it comes under so much fire. I firmly believe that the discussions on this game would have been severely reduced had it been multiplatform.
As far as your personal experience - maybe you just didn't like it. And that is fine. I'm sad that I won't see you on the battlefield tonight (FNF YEAH! Alpha is the boss!), but I'll probably forget about this discussion around 8pm when I log on to be the best damn medic I can be!
My suggestion to you: Stop worrying so much why so many people dig this game even when you didn't. Maybe this time you're not in the majority, but so what? Forget all this back and forth stuff and go have fun with a game you DO enjoy!
Are you fucking serious?
Yes, I GENUINELY enjoy Killzone 2. If you GENUINELY dislike it, play something you will GENUINELY enjoy.
I did play the online game for about 14 hours total. Enough to unlock all the classes and a couple of secondary skillsets. I didn't think it did anything original, and each game I played felt like a sea of people rushing to get killed, which is not something I personally enjoy. I like more tactical FPS experiences to what I saw from KZ2, but personal preference is a fine thing, as you said.
@Necrozen
Your argument on enjoyment is fair but moot. What maybe people don't get is that, as Styles said, their enjoyment of a game comes because they are TOLD that it's good. What I have come to expect from D'toiders is that they have the brains to actually discuss games without buying all the way into the hype, and thus have the ability to disect WHY they like a game without just screaming 'BEST GAME EVAR!!!!'
As I said, I don't really trust review scores from gaming websites, and so I wanted to gauge whether people really liked the game now that the dust has settled. This is potentially GotY, and I personally thought it was an over-rated borefest. Yes, that's my opinion, although almost everyone I've had this conversation with personally has a similar view, but opinions are what the games industry is made of.
Without them we end up buying AAA titles because we're told to, which is exactly what I try to avoid doing.
I WANTED to like this game, I really did, but as a budding game designer I could just smell the 'built by committee' stamps, and horrendous lack of any original thought put into the creation.
Thanks everyone for your honest opinions though, I'm glad most of you got what you wanted out of the title.
I've hosted several All Night Long Killzone 2 multi-player sessions. The room was completely filled up for most of the night. Hell, if I can play Killzone 2 for 10 hours straight with a full room of Dtoiders I can safely say this game rocks.
When we were done with it Shipero and I hopped into a video-chat and were discussing the game for a couple of hours. Once again, never ever did that with another game.
This game is special. Maybe so special that not everybody likes it.
I can see how KZ2 would be great online with friends because that makes the experience personal, and I think I'd probably enjoy that a lot more. Although, as said in the blog, lag makes online play incredibly frustrating for me purely because of geography.
Appreciate the input Takeshi.
You are entitled to your opinion. I think the problem today is that people get angry at other folks' opinions, which in turn, devalues their own. If you thought the game was shit, that's great. It doesn't anger me or make me happy. I feel the same way I did before I read they you thought it was shit, because I make up my own mind, you see. You played it and came to a conclusion, the same as the huge majority who liked it. Like I said, it is OK to be in that small group of folks who thought the game was bad. I support their right to feel that way and be vocal about it. Heck, on Dtoids FNF, when the alpha and beta KZ2 clans are fighting it out for hours on end, those who hate the game can even throw a party and spend hours having in depth discussions about how much they dislike it. You could bake a cake with I hate KZ2 written on it. Really get to the heart of the matter, you know. It shouldn't matter to anyone how far you go with your dislike, because it is all just opinions and people sharing them.
I do have a question though, involving this post. What are you to gain from knowing what any of us liked it? How will this affect you? Is it just general curiosity? Because you seem to make it clear that you are not doubting how genuine our enjoyment was (despite your wording). Just wondering where you were going with this if it isn't A: FLAMEBATE or B: PROVE TO ME THIS GAME IS GOOD OR ELSE! Because we both know that posts under the A and B category are bullshit.
AUTUMN: "What I have come to expect from D'toiders is that they have the brains to actually discuss games without buying all the way into the hype, and thus have the ability to disect WHY they like a game without just screaming 'BEST GAME EVAR!!!!"
If you want to have an intellectual discussion about the game, don't start the discussion by insinuating that those who liked the game (the vast majority) are displaying insincere (read "not genuine") affection. You can say that you didn't mean to sound that way, but anyone smart enough to have an intellectual conversation about games would take one look at the title of your post and come to that conclusion.
Hey bud. Fair point, well made: people do get very defensive when you slate something they like, irrationally so in most cases since I don't expect my opinion to really mean shit to anyone else just as no-one elses opinion has the ability to sway my own.
In response to your question of why I made this post, I can tell you, although you may have inferred it from my last response to you. I have never met anyone in real life who isn't disappointed by this game. Literally not one person. I was so amazed at how average this game was that I made a point of asking around to see if I was just crazy, and it turns out everyone I spoke to feels the same way.
I therefore felt like there must have been some kind of media conspiracy for the game to have had such consistently high review scores when it was simply not good in the opinions of every single person I asked. Edge is the only review I found which actually touched on the myriad of faults and lacklustre design elements this game sports without brushing over it to talk about the graphics again.
I made the title of this post intentionally inflammatory because I wanted to see, as I said, whether anyone really likes this game. I'm glad to see that many people do, including yourself, because that means that it is simply coincidence that all of my friends think it's lame and I can therefore continue to have faith in the impartiality of online videogame reviews.
The only way to ever gauge the popularity of a game outside of reviews is to actually ask people, which is exactly what I've done here. And yes, the title was inflammatory because I wanted to get responses. As you said, nothing brings people out of their corner faster than having their game/thing of choice insulted and had I titled it 'Killzone 2 feedback please' or something, I would probably have had 1 reply.
Apologies if I got your back up with the title, I fucking hate flamebait as well. But rest assured that my intentions were not to piss anyone off, but only to stick my barometer into the asshole of the D'toid community and see what opinions I could find.
See you around the site man.
No, no reason to apologize. I understand your intentions now. Clever use of fake flame bait. I think people came here thinking you were another fanboy, and you know how this site reacts to that kind of thing. We all tend to attack the fanboys because they are annoying and really add no substance. In the end, especially after you explained things a bit more, it is clear that you were just doing a bit of investigation. And that is a good thing.
If I come off as harsh, it is only because I misunderstood at first and I am so used to dealing with annoying fanboys that it takes me a second to come out of that mode.
I'm glad you found the answers you were looking for.
One of the biggest draws for me is the atmosphere though! Loud, stormy, dusty, windy, violent. Loads of effects piling up as I storm through the levels killing helghast. I LOVE the Helghast :)
easily one of my favorite shooters.. Theres my opinion :)