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That was a good read. I liked your points about innovation - successful rgp's can be traditional to a fault (Lost Odyssey) or fairly innovative (FFXII).
Only thing is i would add a j to the front of rpg, in this article. You kind of skipped over the western side of things (except for a quick mention of Mass Effect), and western rpg's are fairly different - particularly, theres more focus on gameplay.
Only thing is i would add a j to the front of rpg, in this article. You kind of skipped over the western side of things (except for a quick mention of Mass Effect), and western rpg's are fairly different - particularly, theres more focus on gameplay.
Sure they can take the ideas from one and make a better game/sequel but no matter how much better it is, it will never be quite the same and anyone whose played the majority of the Final Fantasy games can attest to that.
That is so true my friend, nothing can compare the bliss that was Final Fantasy VI.
This was a great reading, and even if it is another topic about RPG, this is a really well made one and I hope to see this on front page. One thing though about the completionists, not only the RPG fans are, I think gamers in general are completionists by nature.
Now I have to think what I can write about..hmm.
That is so true my friend, nothing can compare the bliss that was Final Fantasy VI.
This was a great reading, and even if it is another topic about RPG, this is a really well made one and I hope to see this on front page. One thing though about the completionists, not only the RPG fans are, I think gamers in general are completionists by nature.
Now I have to think what I can write about..hmm.
very good read, being an RPG player from age 8 I always found rpgs to be the closest to an "Interactive Movie" and thats still true today. Mass Effect was an incredible experience, and Lost Odyssey although I'm only partially the way through is an enjoyable game. I deff can admit rpgs is the one game gene where innovation is forgiven for story.
"Arguably RPGs are the most hardcore of videogame genres."
Yes, I will argue this. Before I do I would like to note that I LOVE rpg's, especially SNES ones. I'm in no way a non-rpg fan.
As for it being the most hardcore of video game genres... you've got to be fucking crazy. Yes, rpg's take a lot of time, but that's it. You just invest a certain amount of hours and one way or another you'll finish the game. You'll master it's secrets. It's like reading a book, you sit down and eventually you'll finish. The only time I've ever heard of anyone NOT being able to complete an RPG is if they just get bored with it.
Hardcore is learning the entire move set of every character in a 2d fighter. It's playing your way through an unforgiving bullet hell shooter. That's hardcore, when you play a brutal game and when you die it's fucking over. You start over and have to learn from your mistakes. No save points, no infinite respawning... just skill vs death.
Yes, I will argue this. Before I do I would like to note that I LOVE rpg's, especially SNES ones. I'm in no way a non-rpg fan.
As for it being the most hardcore of video game genres... you've got to be fucking crazy. Yes, rpg's take a lot of time, but that's it. You just invest a certain amount of hours and one way or another you'll finish the game. You'll master it's secrets. It's like reading a book, you sit down and eventually you'll finish. The only time I've ever heard of anyone NOT being able to complete an RPG is if they just get bored with it.
Hardcore is learning the entire move set of every character in a 2d fighter. It's playing your way through an unforgiving bullet hell shooter. That's hardcore, when you play a brutal game and when you die it's fucking over. You start over and have to learn from your mistakes. No save points, no infinite respawning... just skill vs death.
@youkilledmyguy: Completely agree.
Not to digress, but I love RPGs also, I don't see them as hardcore though. A Good RPG is one I can sit down and play after being pissed off all day anbd just unwind in the grinding or just watching other people's unrealistic problems.
Not to digress, but I love RPGs also, I don't see them as hardcore though. A Good RPG is one I can sit down and play after being pissed off all day anbd just unwind in the grinding or just watching other people's unrealistic problems.
@Passionate Styos:
Front page? wow thanks man! I don't think I'm quite good enough for that honor but I'm glad you enjoyed reading it :D and about the completionist thing I agree that it doesn't just apply to RPG gamers but I put it in because it's a trait that they have even though a lot of other gamers share that trait.
@youkilledmyguy & Wexx:
That's a fair point but that's why I said "arguably" the most hardcore. It's up to you as a player on how hardcore you want to be when playing. You can play through a 2D fighter without learning all the move sets for every character if you don't want to and like wise you can play through a bullet hell shooter by giving yourself extra lives or lowering the difficulty. By doing so those games aren't really hardcore to you and you aren't a hardcore gamer of them.
I disagree somewhat when you say "You just invest a certain amount of hours and one way or another you'll finish the game. You'll master it's secrets." It's true that if all you want to do is see the ending all you have to do is invest the time but that doesn't necessarily mean you'll master it's secrets. Getting all the best gear and beating all the secret bosses not only takes time and dedication but a certain level of skill as well. Beating Emerald Weapon in FF VII or Penance in FF X is fucking hard even with super strong characters. Fighting Sephiroth in Kingdom Hearts 1 and 2 is also extremely challenging and comes back to the point that if you want to be a hardcore gamer of the genre, you can be as there's usually plenty to do and the tasks can be fucking difficult. Even menial tasks to get the best weapons can be hard especially without an faq. Hell getting all 108 stars of destiny in the suikoden games is near impossible without the help of gamefaqs!
By your definition your suggesting that only gamers of certain genres can be hardcore and I'm not sure I can accept that.
Front page? wow thanks man! I don't think I'm quite good enough for that honor but I'm glad you enjoyed reading it :D and about the completionist thing I agree that it doesn't just apply to RPG gamers but I put it in because it's a trait that they have even though a lot of other gamers share that trait.
@youkilledmyguy & Wexx:
That's a fair point but that's why I said "arguably" the most hardcore. It's up to you as a player on how hardcore you want to be when playing. You can play through a 2D fighter without learning all the move sets for every character if you don't want to and like wise you can play through a bullet hell shooter by giving yourself extra lives or lowering the difficulty. By doing so those games aren't really hardcore to you and you aren't a hardcore gamer of them.
I disagree somewhat when you say "You just invest a certain amount of hours and one way or another you'll finish the game. You'll master it's secrets." It's true that if all you want to do is see the ending all you have to do is invest the time but that doesn't necessarily mean you'll master it's secrets. Getting all the best gear and beating all the secret bosses not only takes time and dedication but a certain level of skill as well. Beating Emerald Weapon in FF VII or Penance in FF X is fucking hard even with super strong characters. Fighting Sephiroth in Kingdom Hearts 1 and 2 is also extremely challenging and comes back to the point that if you want to be a hardcore gamer of the genre, you can be as there's usually plenty to do and the tasks can be fucking difficult. Even menial tasks to get the best weapons can be hard especially without an faq. Hell getting all 108 stars of destiny in the suikoden games is near impossible without the help of gamefaqs!
By your definition your suggesting that only gamers of certain genres can be hardcore and I'm not sure I can accept that.
@Anus
I'm not saying that only gamers of certain genres can be "hardcore", as you pointed out you can be a "hardcore" gamer and only play RPG's if you want. What I dispute is the classification of RPG's as "hardcore" themselves. If you want it to be hardcore you can make an RPG be hardcore, however with genres like shooters or fighters it's instantly hardcore (unless you cheat). These types of games go back to the root of reflex and timed gaming. If you don't know what you're doing when you fire up a game like Ikaruga you're dead... pretty much instantly. So by nature the genre is hardcore because for you to progress through the levels you MUST not only invest time but you must learn the skills.
Rpg's as a genre don't require such learning and tenacity normally until late game, if at all.
I'm not saying that only gamers of certain genres can be "hardcore", as you pointed out you can be a "hardcore" gamer and only play RPG's if you want. What I dispute is the classification of RPG's as "hardcore" themselves. If you want it to be hardcore you can make an RPG be hardcore, however with genres like shooters or fighters it's instantly hardcore (unless you cheat). These types of games go back to the root of reflex and timed gaming. If you don't know what you're doing when you fire up a game like Ikaruga you're dead... pretty much instantly. So by nature the genre is hardcore because for you to progress through the levels you MUST not only invest time but you must learn the skills.
Rpg's as a genre don't require such learning and tenacity normally until late game, if at all.
"Rpg's as a genre don't require such learning and tenacity normally until late game, if at all."
That's mostly true but I still disagree to some extent because even playing through the main story you need to learn your characters abilities and incorporate their skills into your tactics in order to progress.
I can see where your coming from though I'm just not sure I can agree to the same extent as you.
I guess it's down to game design because with a fighter or shmup it's ok to start from the beginning over and over, but it'd be ridiculous to do that in an RPG because you won't be able to follow the story. That's why all the secret stuff comes later in the game so you're never forced to restart from the very beginning. Although there are exceptions FF Tactics forced me to start again a few times because I wasn't strong enough and it pissed me off to no end.
That's mostly true but I still disagree to some extent because even playing through the main story you need to learn your characters abilities and incorporate their skills into your tactics in order to progress.
I can see where your coming from though I'm just not sure I can agree to the same extent as you.
I guess it's down to game design because with a fighter or shmup it's ok to start from the beginning over and over, but it'd be ridiculous to do that in an RPG because you won't be able to follow the story. That's why all the secret stuff comes later in the game so you're never forced to restart from the very beginning. Although there are exceptions FF Tactics forced me to start again a few times because I wasn't strong enough and it pissed me off to no end.
