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but for a game that suck as much as the Saboteur does, I'm having an awful lot of fun with it.
If that's not an oxymoron I don't know what is. Seriously Anthony, do you even like games that are not indie ones? I'm not trying to troll you here because I have respect for you as a writer but 98% of the time you just shit on everything. Or pontificate on how the majority of games suck because they aren't up to your personal standards of perfection.
Sometimes games are just a cool way of dicking around nd having fun. Everything doesn't have to gel or be logical or make sense because they're just videogames bro.
If that's not an oxymoron I don't know what is. Seriously Anthony, do you even like games that are not indie ones? I'm not trying to troll you here because I have respect for you as a writer but 98% of the time you just shit on everything. Or pontificate on how the majority of games suck because they aren't up to your personal standards of perfection.
Sometimes games are just a cool way of dicking around nd having fun. Everything doesn't have to gel or be logical or make sense because they're just videogames bro.
"death has absolutely no consequence" Same with Bioshock, and you thought that game was brilliant.
"While its controls are horrendous" What is so bad about the controls? I haven't played it, and This is a game that has piqued my interest.
The saboteur, I'm gonna let you Finnish, but Fallout 1/2 are some of the best open world games of all time.
"While its controls are horrendous" What is so bad about the controls? I haven't played it, and This is a game that has piqued my interest.
The saboteur, I'm gonna let you Finnish, but Fallout 1/2 are some of the best open world games of all time.
Yojimbo:
"I'm not trying to troll you here"
Could have fooled me.
If you notice, I didn't complain that the game was bad because it was too fun, or didn't have a level where you grow old and have to pay taxes or something -- I said the game sucks because the controls are awful (literally ALL of the controls, from the unresponsive driving to the awkward platforming to the infuriating shooting and sabotage controls) and for a game that seems to imply that it's important to run away from the Nazis, death has absolutely no consequence. As a result, it's easy and profitable to just run around suicide-bombing stuff, which gets boring.
I'm getting especially tired of lazy people confusing "Anthony is capable of criticizing shitty design aspects" with "Anthony is incapable of liking fun games." The Saboteur is shitty because much of its design is NOT fun, when it is trying to be. It is also highly enjoyable, despite much of that design.
GamesAreArt:
You'd have a hard time finding anyone, myself included, who didn't absolutely hate the Vita-Chamber system in BioShock. It's different in The Saboteur, however, because (A) Saboteur doesn't have an engaging story, fantastic atmosphere, and enjoyable controls and basic combat mechanics to fall back on, and (B) as Saboteur is an open world game that encourages the player to use strategic thinking (stealth, distractions, long-range weaponry mixed with disguise and infiltration) to take out Nazi installations, which is completely antithetical to the idea of consequence-free death (as, again, you can just hurl yourself into Nazi bases, plant semtex near a tower, and blow it up while standing next to it and you'll still get the cash bonus); BioShock, the big daddy fights notwithstanding, is somewhat less reliant on that sort of high-level strategic thinking.
"I'm not trying to troll you here"
Could have fooled me.
If you notice, I didn't complain that the game was bad because it was too fun, or didn't have a level where you grow old and have to pay taxes or something -- I said the game sucks because the controls are awful (literally ALL of the controls, from the unresponsive driving to the awkward platforming to the infuriating shooting and sabotage controls) and for a game that seems to imply that it's important to run away from the Nazis, death has absolutely no consequence. As a result, it's easy and profitable to just run around suicide-bombing stuff, which gets boring.
I'm getting especially tired of lazy people confusing "Anthony is capable of criticizing shitty design aspects" with "Anthony is incapable of liking fun games." The Saboteur is shitty because much of its design is NOT fun, when it is trying to be. It is also highly enjoyable, despite much of that design.
GamesAreArt:
You'd have a hard time finding anyone, myself included, who didn't absolutely hate the Vita-Chamber system in BioShock. It's different in The Saboteur, however, because (A) Saboteur doesn't have an engaging story, fantastic atmosphere, and enjoyable controls and basic combat mechanics to fall back on, and (B) as Saboteur is an open world game that encourages the player to use strategic thinking (stealth, distractions, long-range weaponry mixed with disguise and infiltration) to take out Nazi installations, which is completely antithetical to the idea of consequence-free death (as, again, you can just hurl yourself into Nazi bases, plant semtex near a tower, and blow it up while standing next to it and you'll still get the cash bonus); BioShock, the big daddy fights notwithstanding, is somewhat less reliant on that sort of high-level strategic thinking.
This has really created a lot of interest in the game for me. You should do more of these quick impressions of games, Rev. I enjoy them quite a bit.
Well, my dad always said, 'if you don't like it, do it yourself!'
Six weeks later, he blew himself up in a homemade space rocket because he thought UK version of NASA were taking 'too bloody long' with trips to the moon.
Sad day indeed...he's going miss the new Doctor Who episode and everything now. Cuh.
Six weeks later, he blew himself up in a homemade space rocket because he thought UK version of NASA were taking 'too bloody long' with trips to the moon.
Sad day indeed...he's going miss the new Doctor Who episode and everything now. Cuh.
I stopped playing BioShock not because the Vita-Chamber, but because no one told me i would lose one of my powers when trying to get telekinesis.
The Saboteur is just a shit game that you either like because of the setting, or you don't, so I can see where you're coming from, Anthony (the ending was also terrible).
It reminds me a lot of the new Prince of Persia. I call them "infatuation games". If you fall in love with The Prince and Elika too hard to realize that the game is one giant collectathon QTE with no depth, you'll love it.
It reminds me a lot of the new Prince of Persia. I call them "infatuation games". If you fall in love with The Prince and Elika too hard to realize that the game is one giant collectathon QTE with no depth, you'll love it.
I find I enjoy even the most flawed and mediocre sandbox games as long as they have personality. 60% on metacritic? Good enough for me.
Monodi:
You know you don't permanently lose it, right? That you can put it back as soon as you find a plasmid switching-out station?
Magnalon:
Setting had nothing to do with it.
You know you don't permanently lose it, right? That you can put it back as soon as you find a plasmid switching-out station?
Magnalon:
Setting had nothing to do with it.
@Ant
At least, I'm referring to Jim, who completely fell in love with not only the setting, but the artistic style, which he talked about at great length.
At least, I'm referring to Jim, who completely fell in love with not only the setting, but the artistic style, which he talked about at great length.
Honestly Burch Dog, If the Saboteur was hailed as a great game all across the interwebs even with the flaws you speak of, would you have enjoyed it as much as you have been? Or would you take a stand against it and call it shit? It seems like you enjoy things more when people don't give it a chance. Not judging you, just asking. I like reading your stuff, and I don't want to come across hostile or anything.
If The Saboteur has any design flaws, I haven't noticed them. Perhaps I'm being blinded by the fun of stealth-killing nazis, blowing up various AA guns and towers, and leaping from rooftop to rooftop to escape the Zeppelins' gunfire (the miniap being almost entirely red). It does what any game is supposed to do: create a worthy distraction from the mundanity of everyday life.
@Y0j1mb0
Aside from the medium trolling (Just because its indie doesn't mean he gives it a high score), I feel you and its one of the things that irks me about Anthony's style as well. His critique style is based on Theoretical Game Perfect, which doesn't exist, but could, if all of these games were different in some way. As a basis for critique, it makes alot of sense and is probably pretty healthy for the industry at large with regards to constructive criticism.
The side effect is that it sounds like he doesn't enjoy games, even if he gets some good times out of them.
Iunno. Sometimes I loves me a Rev Rant, because its good theorycraft for a guy that wants to see the best games being made possible. Othertimes, I could use a Chad Concelmo getting stupid hype over a fluff game, because he seems o voice his opinion directly from his pleasure sensors, to palpable detriment of critical content.
Clearly, I spend too much time at Destructoid. :)
Aside from the medium trolling (Just because its indie doesn't mean he gives it a high score), I feel you and its one of the things that irks me about Anthony's style as well. His critique style is based on Theoretical Game Perfect, which doesn't exist, but could, if all of these games were different in some way. As a basis for critique, it makes alot of sense and is probably pretty healthy for the industry at large with regards to constructive criticism.
The side effect is that it sounds like he doesn't enjoy games, even if he gets some good times out of them.
Iunno. Sometimes I loves me a Rev Rant, because its good theorycraft for a guy that wants to see the best games being made possible. Othertimes, I could use a Chad Concelmo getting stupid hype over a fluff game, because he seems o voice his opinion directly from his pleasure sensors, to palpable detriment of critical content.
Clearly, I spend too much time at Destructoid. :)
@Anthony Burch
I know you can have more slots, but it sort of killed the joy for a moment and gave it a hiatus. i'll be back on it when i have the mood.
I know you can have more slots, but it sort of killed the joy for a moment and gave it a hiatus. i'll be back on it when i have the mood.
Anthony, have you thought of doing a no-death run of Bioshock as you did Far Cry 2? Or maybe even Sabeteur? Would they add more thought to your decisions or just make it unnecessarily difficult?
I actually did try a no-death of BioShock, and it wasn't really that satisfying apart from the Big Daddies (which require much more preparation and are thus way, way more satisfying to take out).
Would you say the auto-save system was worse than the vita-chambers?
They served the same purpose at regular intervals and I'm pretty sure you didn't have the choice to opt out, unlike the 'no vita-chambers' option. I mean, I really came to rely on it when it came to getting that Brass Balls achievement and Hard mode was a joke because of it.
They served the same purpose at regular intervals and I'm pretty sure you didn't have the choice to opt out, unlike the 'no vita-chambers' option. I mean, I really came to rely on it when it came to getting that Brass Balls achievement and Hard mode was a joke because of it.
Sorry, I meant manual save! I would have prefered it if they made you save at checkpoints in the form of vending machines.
I would definitely pass up the chance to see Milla half naked while killing zombies.
She's fucking hideous.
She's fucking hideous.
Ive never been a huge fan of open world games, they have always been hit and miss with me. The one OWG I love would be Infamous. I thought it was a fantastic game, I played Assassins Creed 2 recently and it was a all and all good game. Interesting thing, Im not a big GTA fan, that series really turns me off to OWG's. I dont know what it is, but I used to play GTA 1 on PC for hours and loved it. That was a classic game and was right up there in some of my all time favorite games at that time along with Raptor, MGS and sonic.
Now I love linear games, I dont mind he developer holding my hand, I like that idea actually. It makes life simple I know where to go, and the action usually never stops because there is rarely travel time. Anyways that's just me.
Now I love linear games, I dont mind he developer holding my hand, I like that idea actually. It makes life simple I know where to go, and the action usually never stops because there is rarely travel time. Anyways that's just me.
"The Saboteur is, to me, an incredibly enjoyable game that isn't actually all that good"
This sentence alone pretty much just sold me on the game. I'm buying it tomorrow.
This is exactly what I though about Mercenaries 2, it was buggy, the story made no sense, controls were pretty awful. But dammit it was really fun, especially co-op, even through it just made the game even more buggy, that in itself made the game more fun, laughably so, but fun nonetheless.
RIP Pandemic.
This sentence alone pretty much just sold me on the game. I'm buying it tomorrow.
This is exactly what I though about Mercenaries 2, it was buggy, the story made no sense, controls were pretty awful. But dammit it was really fun, especially co-op, even through it just made the game even more buggy, that in itself made the game more fun, laughably so, but fun nonetheless.
RIP Pandemic.
Red Dead Redemption. That's all I'm sayin'.
I pretty much feel the same way, 'Ol Burch-o. As much as I hate the screwy controls, piss-poor hand-to-hand combat, and twitchy gun-shootin', and annoying waypoint system, and kinda boring dialog and story, I can't help but be absorbed every time I pop it in. It's just a really neat environment to play in. I adore the perks system - it's like achievements with a purpose, and almost RPG- or maybe Metroid-esque. The Nazi occupation is a pretty brilliant setting, and makes sense in an overarching sort of way. It's fun to watch the black-and-white areas change to full color - it kinda makes each area feel that much more worthwhile to explore, even if it doesn't change the gameplay that much.
For as many flaws as it definitely does have, it's a remarkably fun game.
For as many flaws as it definitely does have, it's a remarkably fun game.
