surf dtoid with 
Rising (10+)
People you follow
Nothing I can say to this. They have admitted their mistake, and though some may say the damage is already done, I do believe even huge companies such as this can be forgiven.
Man, what is with video game companies issuing real apologies lately? Joking aside, its nice to see gaming companies not pulling the "We're sorry you're offended" card from the stack.
Yeah Tristrix is correct, it's Corpsegrinder.
Hey, at least they didn't start quoting Cannibal Corpse song titles. That could have been far more entertaining/exacerbating. A few choice examples:
I Cum Blood.
Addicted To Vaginal Skin.
Post Mortal Ejaculation.
Entrails Ripped From A Virgin's Cunt.
And that's just from one album. Interesting choice of guest speaker, it has to be said.
Hey, at least they didn't start quoting Cannibal Corpse song titles. That could have been far more entertaining/exacerbating. A few choice examples:
I Cum Blood.
Addicted To Vaginal Skin.
Post Mortal Ejaculation.
Entrails Ripped From A Virgin's Cunt.
And that's just from one album. Interesting choice of guest speaker, it has to be said.
@tomothy25 all the songs that you mentioned were originally performed and released in 1992, when Corpsegrinder wasn't even a part of the band... Yet.
The apology is good, but I have the sinking feeling that some people at Activision still do not get it. The infamous Activision PSA to ‘Fight against Grenade Spam’ came with an apology afterward as well.
So let's see, we have two Activision companies, Blizzard and Infinity Ward, that both seem to have managements that are socially clueless in the modern age. Once is a mistake, twice is a troubling trend, what happens the third time?
So let's see, we have two Activision companies, Blizzard and Infinity Ward, that both seem to have managements that are socially clueless in the modern age. Once is a mistake, twice is a troubling trend, what happens the third time?
They should have offered all the outraged members of the gay community a free flight to bliz hq for a public apology and when they got there have Cannibal Corpse come flying out with a live peformance of "I Cum Blood" and shoot bloody loads all over the crowd with a giant fake penis.
I used to play night elf.....it was kinda gay......I was pink......I only wanted to find Mr. T........I never did.......got to ride a tiger that was really badass.......white tiger is the "gayer" of the tigers tho........had a pet turtle....... I like turtles.......ya turtles are cool
It's weird. To start with, the only thing that isn't edited out of the video in the form it was presented was hate of Alliance and gankers.
To continue, I don't know what WoW other people were playing, but that's how a huge percentage of the players talk. usage of 'gay' as a slur is completely commonplace on just about any voice com associated with that game. It's different from XBLA where a lot of random people behave badly in different ways; WoW has a community, and they talk like that.
Anyway, I understand the controversy and I definitely don't approve of grown men talking like homophobic teenagers. But it's a strong example of how game communities are encouraging one culture to their playerbase, and another in their PR.
To continue, I don't know what WoW other people were playing, but that's how a huge percentage of the players talk. usage of 'gay' as a slur is completely commonplace on just about any voice com associated with that game. It's different from XBLA where a lot of random people behave badly in different ways; WoW has a community, and they talk like that.
Anyway, I understand the controversy and I definitely don't approve of grown men talking like homophobic teenagers. But it's a strong example of how game communities are encouraging one culture to their playerbase, and another in their PR.
@KCalder
"It's different from XBLA where a lot of random people behave badly in different ways; WoW has a community, and they talk like that. "
I'm no WoW fan, but this is entirely unfair and entirely untrue. They have their troublemakers, but like any other community, it's primarily just regular folks like you and me who just want to play a video game. No need to paint them with such a broad brush.
"It's different from XBLA where a lot of random people behave badly in different ways; WoW has a community, and they talk like that. "
I'm no WoW fan, but this is entirely unfair and entirely untrue. They have their troublemakers, but like any other community, it's primarily just regular folks like you and me who just want to play a video game. No need to paint them with such a broad brush.
@Xenonas
Bollocks, I've been exposed! You're totally right. I completely forgot that he wasn't the original vocalist. Chris Barnes was the original, right? To be honest, I don't actually know a lot of Cannibal Corpse songs; the only one I like is Hammer Smashed Face. I just wanted to make a joke about how ridiculous some of their song titles are.
Still, the important thing is that Blizzard actually realised they needed to apologise and they did it. It always annoys me when PR guys say they're aware of the problem but don't actually say sorry.
Bollocks, I've been exposed! You're totally right. I completely forgot that he wasn't the original vocalist. Chris Barnes was the original, right? To be honest, I don't actually know a lot of Cannibal Corpse songs; the only one I like is Hammer Smashed Face. I just wanted to make a joke about how ridiculous some of their song titles are.
Still, the important thing is that Blizzard actually realised they needed to apologise and they did it. It always annoys me when PR guys say they're aware of the problem but don't actually say sorry.
@ Tomothy25
I doesn't really Matter, Fisher has been in the band for nearly 20 years at this point and he still sings all of the classics such as "Entrails Ripped From a Virgin's Cunt" live.
I doesn't really Matter, Fisher has been in the band for nearly 20 years at this point and he still sings all of the classics such as "Entrails Ripped From a Virgin's Cunt" live.
@Shinobi: I'm rarely offended by words. I am, however, offended by the kind of jackasses (whom the Internet seems to draw out of the woodwork like termites) who believe they should be allowed to say (and, to a lesser extent do) whatever they want. That's hardcore antisocial behavior.
There are certain things that really aren't appropriate to say or do in the company of others. Not in a "politically correct" sense, necessarily (there's always someone who can take offense to a completely innocuous comment), but slurs about/insults based on common lifestyles, religions, race, etc. should pretty obviously be off limits. It really doesn't matter how common they are or if "everybody knows what they mean", there's a reason "gay" is colloquially used as a negative--the people who coined it believed that being gay is a negative thing. Even if you don't personally believe that, your use of that word implies that you do and, honestly, you should feel kind of ashamed for contributing to homophobic slander.
The thing to remember about words is that what you mean or intend to convey is worthless. All that matters is what people hear. If the things you say are being misinterpreted, find another way to say them.
There are certain things that really aren't appropriate to say or do in the company of others. Not in a "politically correct" sense, necessarily (there's always someone who can take offense to a completely innocuous comment), but slurs about/insults based on common lifestyles, religions, race, etc. should pretty obviously be off limits. It really doesn't matter how common they are or if "everybody knows what they mean", there's a reason "gay" is colloquially used as a negative--the people who coined it believed that being gay is a negative thing. Even if you don't personally believe that, your use of that word implies that you do and, honestly, you should feel kind of ashamed for contributing to homophobic slander.
The thing to remember about words is that what you mean or intend to convey is worthless. All that matters is what people hear. If the things you say are being misinterpreted, find another way to say them.
I ain't some f.ing gey nigga elf alliance. I play hord. XD
Of caurse i'm kidding. That guy was just an idiot. Can anyone be offended by an idiot?
Of caurse i'm kidding. That guy was just an idiot. Can anyone be offended by an idiot?
Mind boggling that at no point in the planning process did somebody say "hey maybe this is a dumb idea" or maybe someone did and got fired. First they make an expansion to appeal to the biggest gold farming nation on the planet and then the CEO is in a band playing a song that might get you banned from Barrens chat. I don't know Blizzard--most of your recent mistakes I try to blame on Activision, but I think you are on your own for this one. Thanks for the good times. There have been many.
@OmnipotentBagel: "But certain words I don't agree with should be off-limits".
Nope. You can fuck-off back to 1984. Don't forget about those "thought-crimes" either.
Nope. You can fuck-off back to 1984. Don't forget about those "thought-crimes" either.
wait wait wait! let me grab the world's tiniest violin! doesn't anyone realize this guy is from cannibal corpse?
@OmnipotentBagel: re the first paragraph;
Heh. You're setting the bar awfully low for what you refer to as "hardcore antisocial behavior". A little bit of perspective goes a long way, man.
Heh. You're setting the bar awfully low for what you refer to as "hardcore antisocial behavior". A little bit of perspective goes a long way, man.
Definitely appreciated, Blizzard! I was worried for a moment what kind of people would be getting my money if I bought Diablo III, which was making me reconsider such a purchase. Good to see I won't have to worry.
I think what he meant was that Elf Alliance members are extremely happy. People just twisting shit out proportion as usual.
Lets here for fighting for equality by asking for special treatment. Everyone who saw and was there knew it wasn't anything anti-gay about his message. Unlike the dumb girl who grilled during a qa about why Blizzard had no gay characters in their games and how "they SHOULD put gays in the game."
1 thing is to ask not be smashed over the head for being a different color, liking the same sex, or difference of ideologies. Another is to demand to be included in things JUST because you feel you are under-represented. It's childish immature tantrums. I understand why Blizzard did it but this social-contractual extortion that is happening needs to stop. It's hard to support any group that just looks out for it's own interested, and everything else is fine.
1 thing is to ask not be smashed over the head for being a different color, liking the same sex, or difference of ideologies. Another is to demand to be included in things JUST because you feel you are under-represented. It's childish immature tantrums. I understand why Blizzard did it but this social-contractual extortion that is happening needs to stop. It's hard to support any group that just looks out for it's own interested, and everything else is fine.
@mabans.
Unfortunately im a t work, but i cant twait to get home an explain how dumb your comment is.
It is not asking for 'special treatment' to not use homophobic words. Especially when gay people are not equal to a straight counter part.
Unfortunately im a t work, but i cant twait to get home an explain how dumb your comment is.
It is not asking for 'special treatment' to not use homophobic words. Especially when gay people are not equal to a straight counter part.
Okay, that was a little over dramatic. But the whole "things I don't agree with" is exactly the point I'm trying to make. It's one thing to respectfully disagree with another person's point of view, but it's an entirely different thing to use slurs against someone who holds that point of view. It's not that the words themselves are off-limits, but people should be careful how they use them. I'm fairly anti-censorship in that I believe people have a right to speak their mind. If your ideas offend someone, that's the offended party's problem. But it's important to express those ideas in a civil manner. We're supposed to be an advanced society, it's not too much to ask that people show respect for their fellow human beings.
"The thing to remember about words is that what you mean or intend to convey is worthless. All that matters is what people hear. If the things you say are being misinterpreted, find another way to say them."
Fuck that. Intent is everything. If people truly get angry or feel attacked over words regardless of context or intent, then that's their problem. I get that someone might be offended if I use "gay" or "retarded" in a perjorative sense, but quite frankly, I'd lose so much respect for said person for being an over-sensitive pussy that I'd be happy to offend him in the first place.
Fuck that. Intent is everything. If people truly get angry or feel attacked over words regardless of context or intent, then that's their problem. I get that someone might be offended if I use "gay" or "retarded" in a perjorative sense, but quite frankly, I'd lose so much respect for said person for being an over-sensitive pussy that I'd be happy to offend him in the first place.
@Kalder: "WoW has a community, and they talk like that. "
SOME people talk like that. Those would be the assholes.
SOME people talk like that. Those would be the assholes.
I, for one, cannot believe that a man nicknamed "Corpsegrinder" is not a paragon of viture.
@KCalder
"WoW has a community, and they talk like that."
Hey now, you can't condemn the whole WoW community just because of Barrens chat.
@KCalder
"WoW has a community, and they talk like that."
Hey now, you can't condemn the whole WoW community just because of Barrens chat.
Hey guys... I played for about 5 years on and off. I admit my experience is anecdotal rather than representative of the whole population.
But in my experience, an awful lot of people playing WoW did specifically use 'gay' as a pejorative. Every ventrilo and teamspeak I spent time on was okay with it, even though there were individuals that weren't. I'm saying that I never did encounter a voice com where everyone spoke like gentlemen. And that's not even considering the barrens chat, where people are completely behind the anonymity shield. Blizzard doesn't create the community's behaviour, of course. But the community is core of the gaming experience.
This story caught my interest because the corpsegrinder video is very authentic compared to most celebrity endorsements of a product. He's complaining about getting ganked farming motes. Their actual performance and 'For the Horde' stuff on stage in 2011 is very inauthentic and cheesy. It's interesting that a company can't promote itself with content that is representative of the experience, because the company is held to a much more strict standard of conduct.
That's on our society, I guess.
But in my experience, an awful lot of people playing WoW did specifically use 'gay' as a pejorative. Every ventrilo and teamspeak I spent time on was okay with it, even though there were individuals that weren't. I'm saying that I never did encounter a voice com where everyone spoke like gentlemen. And that's not even considering the barrens chat, where people are completely behind the anonymity shield. Blizzard doesn't create the community's behaviour, of course. But the community is core of the gaming experience.
This story caught my interest because the corpsegrinder video is very authentic compared to most celebrity endorsements of a product. He's complaining about getting ganked farming motes. Their actual performance and 'For the Horde' stuff on stage in 2011 is very inauthentic and cheesy. It's interesting that a company can't promote itself with content that is representative of the experience, because the company is held to a much more strict standard of conduct.
That's on our society, I guess.
@ OmnipotentBagel
It's important to make a distinction between true hate speech, and guys who just want to push the envelope by making fun of political correctness and all that. I watched the Cannibal Corpse interview after reading your comment and in my opinion, it fell into the latter category.
I don't see a man with a truly hateful agenda in that video. What I see there is a headbanger who's had too many beers. It's also interesting to note that the particular slurs he used refer to general submissiveness more so than homosexuality.
Not making excuses for what he said, just pointing out that you can learn quite a bit about the stereotypical alpha male mentality there, if you pay close attention.
It's important to make a distinction between true hate speech, and guys who just want to push the envelope by making fun of political correctness and all that. I watched the Cannibal Corpse interview after reading your comment and in my opinion, it fell into the latter category.
I don't see a man with a truly hateful agenda in that video. What I see there is a headbanger who's had too many beers. It's also interesting to note that the particular slurs he used refer to general submissiveness more so than homosexuality.
Not making excuses for what he said, just pointing out that you can learn quite a bit about the stereotypical alpha male mentality there, if you pay close attention.
@Mabans
First of all, even suggesting that a group of people who do not have equal rights want 'special treatment' is absolutely asinine. It isn't much too ask for people not to be ignorant and say homophobic or racist things. I haven't seen the video is question, but if he honestly felt the need to apologize for it then he thought it was bad enough thing to say.
The only people being smashed over the head with anything is homosexuals when it comes to Christianity/Catholics and Homophobic Politicians telling gay people they don't deserve certain rights and what they do is a sin. So they shouldn't be treated equally for it. If these people didn't make a big deal about some one who is a different color, sexual orientation then you wouldn't have to be 'smashed' over the head about the differences in anybody.
Asking to be represented in stuff isn't childish at all. People ask this because other wise people pretend that homosexuals do not exist or are a minority, that is why people ask and suggest these things. People wanted to be treated normal, that's not asking for much at all.
'It's hard to support any group that just looks out for it's own interested, and everything else is fine.'
And this part. Do you understand that homosexuals have to stand up for their own interests? Who else would? Do you think homosexuals would have gained any rights at all if they didn't take a stand for themselves? Like I said before, it would be treated like it doesn't exist and if we didn't stick up for ourselves it would still be treated as a mental disorder.
If we didn't care about our own interests, something like DADT would still exist and no one would even give a shit about how homosexuals were treated. When people should, cause it is absolutely disgusting to treat people less equally because of something they have no control over.
Do you think Black people would be treated better if they didn't start looking out for their own interests? No they would not, but since they did, ultimately things changed and got a lot better for them. They had people in their group who were tired of being treated like second hand citizens and didn't allow it to happen anymore because they stood up to backwards ignorant ideals.
The only person that will truly stick up for you, is yourself. Taking a self interest is in no way a bad thing. Especially since we live in an age where people don't have equal rights just because they have sexual attractions to the same sex. If I don't stand up for myself, nobody will.
First of all, even suggesting that a group of people who do not have equal rights want 'special treatment' is absolutely asinine. It isn't much too ask for people not to be ignorant and say homophobic or racist things. I haven't seen the video is question, but if he honestly felt the need to apologize for it then he thought it was bad enough thing to say.
The only people being smashed over the head with anything is homosexuals when it comes to Christianity/Catholics and Homophobic Politicians telling gay people they don't deserve certain rights and what they do is a sin. So they shouldn't be treated equally for it. If these people didn't make a big deal about some one who is a different color, sexual orientation then you wouldn't have to be 'smashed' over the head about the differences in anybody.
Asking to be represented in stuff isn't childish at all. People ask this because other wise people pretend that homosexuals do not exist or are a minority, that is why people ask and suggest these things. People wanted to be treated normal, that's not asking for much at all.
'It's hard to support any group that just looks out for it's own interested, and everything else is fine.'
And this part. Do you understand that homosexuals have to stand up for their own interests? Who else would? Do you think homosexuals would have gained any rights at all if they didn't take a stand for themselves? Like I said before, it would be treated like it doesn't exist and if we didn't stick up for ourselves it would still be treated as a mental disorder.
If we didn't care about our own interests, something like DADT would still exist and no one would even give a shit about how homosexuals were treated. When people should, cause it is absolutely disgusting to treat people less equally because of something they have no control over.
Do you think Black people would be treated better if they didn't start looking out for their own interests? No they would not, but since they did, ultimately things changed and got a lot better for them. They had people in their group who were tired of being treated like second hand citizens and didn't allow it to happen anymore because they stood up to backwards ignorant ideals.
The only person that will truly stick up for you, is yourself. Taking a self interest is in no way a bad thing. Especially since we live in an age where people don't have equal rights just because they have sexual attractions to the same sex. If I don't stand up for myself, nobody will.
try to list a pejorative that didn't come from insulting an out-group for the dominant heterosexual male ideal. gay is just one of the more popular recent ones.
Lame, retarded, dumb, being a pussy, gay, it is all the same.
so blizzard should apologize, but those who got all upset about this are lame, retarded, dumb, pussies and gay. and ignorant of history, and how words work (etymology)
Lame, retarded, dumb, being a pussy, gay, it is all the same.
so blizzard should apologize, but those who got all upset about this are lame, retarded, dumb, pussies and gay. and ignorant of history, and how words work (etymology)
I guess I can understand the whole "push-the-envelope" thing. It's worked pretty good for a lot of satirists (hell, it's pretty well the thing that's kept South Park going for a while now). Still, I wish people could find better ways of making their point. There's a fine line between edgy satire and just being crude. Also, it's a matter of setting. Seeing as the situation in question was being presented as an official Blizzard thing, it really wasn't the time or place for that kind of a statement, particularly in an environment in which most people who talk like that aren't trying to be subversive--they're just being crude and/or immature.
RE: intent. I agree that the intent behind what you say should matter. And, depending on your audience, it often does, particularly in private conversations. But statements made in public are judged based on audience perception, and it's really hard to change that perception once a judgement is made. You don't always get a chance to explain yourself and sometimes the damage done by a poorly phrased statement can't be reversed. When speaking with people you don't know very well, it seems like it would be best to give a good impression by thinking before you speak. This is probably most evident in a lot of online communities, where most parties simply say whatever the hell they like, and as bluntly as possible, and it leads to a lot of communication breakdowns and unnecessary drama/conflict.
@triclops: That's kind of the whole point. Pejoratives in general really just reinforce that whole "white heterosexual male superiority" thing. Sure it's something most people don't think about when they use those words, but to people who still face a fair amount of persecution for not being white heterosexual males (and there are a lot), those kinds of words are still used as such. Some words have pretty much lost their offensiveness (I haven't really seen any activists get too bent out of shape over "lame" or "dumb" recently), so that's proof that it doesn't have to stay that way. But right now in a lot of places, being gay isn't socially/culturally embraced. Using homosexual slurs still carries an awful lot of power that simply isn't there with words like "idiot" or "noob". Again, it's all about choosing your language to fit your audience.
RE: intent. I agree that the intent behind what you say should matter. And, depending on your audience, it often does, particularly in private conversations. But statements made in public are judged based on audience perception, and it's really hard to change that perception once a judgement is made. You don't always get a chance to explain yourself and sometimes the damage done by a poorly phrased statement can't be reversed. When speaking with people you don't know very well, it seems like it would be best to give a good impression by thinking before you speak. This is probably most evident in a lot of online communities, where most parties simply say whatever the hell they like, and as bluntly as possible, and it leads to a lot of communication breakdowns and unnecessary drama/conflict.
@triclops: That's kind of the whole point. Pejoratives in general really just reinforce that whole "white heterosexual male superiority" thing. Sure it's something most people don't think about when they use those words, but to people who still face a fair amount of persecution for not being white heterosexual males (and there are a lot), those kinds of words are still used as such. Some words have pretty much lost their offensiveness (I haven't really seen any activists get too bent out of shape over "lame" or "dumb" recently), so that's proof that it doesn't have to stay that way. But right now in a lot of places, being gay isn't socially/culturally embraced. Using homosexual slurs still carries an awful lot of power that simply isn't there with words like "idiot" or "noob". Again, it's all about choosing your language to fit your audience.
Holy clusterfuck that video was funny. Why? Because I've actually played WoW for the last 7+ years and he pretty much echoes what everyone already believes. Hell, even some of my Alliance friends hate themselves. Kinda like some gay people, huh?
Yeah, he went about it with some colorful language but if Dtoid did a "Man on the street" video (Talking to nerds about videogames?) and talked to WoW players, it would pretty much be the same thing as that guy from that metal band.
I'm not offended because I'm not the type of person who gets offended on behalf of someone else. But feel free to get angry over this. It's your heart-attack-waiting-to-happen, not mine.
Yeah, he went about it with some colorful language but if Dtoid did a "Man on the street" video (Talking to nerds about videogames?) and talked to WoW players, it would pretty much be the same thing as that guy from that metal band.
I'm not offended because I'm not the type of person who gets offended on behalf of someone else. But feel free to get angry over this. It's your heart-attack-waiting-to-happen, not mine.
I forgot to add the "Common WoW knowledge" part:
• Night-elves are dumb(I would have used gay here, but I don't want to hurt anyone's butt).
• Alliance who Gank(player-kill) are idiots(F-word for gay not used for obvious reasons).
• Gnomes are fucking stupid(I would say midget here but who knows who's reading this, wouldn't want to hurt them mirite?)
• Fuck the Alliance.
• FOR THE HORDE! *Black Power Fist*
This is common knowledge and even some of my Alliance friends are only that faction so they could play with someone they know(usually females, since women are stupid* and always chose the "pretty-races", which is why the Horde was eventually given one, the 'Blood Elves' which the guy in that video also mentioned).
*I'm being (mostly) facetious, so if you are offended by any of this; You're doing it wrong.
• Night-elves are dumb(I would have used gay here, but I don't want to hurt anyone's butt).
• Alliance who Gank(player-kill) are idiots(F-word for gay not used for obvious reasons).
• Gnomes are fucking stupid(I would say midget here but who knows who's reading this, wouldn't want to hurt them mirite?)
• Fuck the Alliance.
• FOR THE HORDE! *Black Power Fist*
This is common knowledge and even some of my Alliance friends are only that faction so they could play with someone they know(usually females, since women are stupid* and always chose the "pretty-races", which is why the Horde was eventually given one, the 'Blood Elves' which the guy in that video also mentioned).
*I'm being (mostly) facetious, so if you are offended by any of this; You're doing it wrong.
When you use words like "...use of anti-gay language..." you're not being fair. He clearly was not going after gay people.
If a comedian, for example, tells a joke about white people or Mexicans, we all know it's just a joke. But (some) gays lately have taken it upon themselves to ignore context and intent. Most of you know he wasn't going after gays. Did any of you really think this guy meant "I hate gay people and wish to do them harm. I'm expressing this by using the word 'fag'"? My issue with this stuff and the diversity bandwagon in general is the separation of people into groups based on superficial things and then holding them to different standards. It's the opposite of equality.
I don't have an issue with gay people but treating gays like victims (or white hetero males as victimizers, the one negative generalization a couple of you have made without any sense of hypocrisy) only divides people further rather than bringing them together. "Fag" used in humor or in replacement of "wimp" or "idiot" is not intended to be hateful towards gays. The speaker's intent is what matters the most.
Many of the arguments I've heard in the past don't work. Stuff about creating an atmosphere of violence are rarely ever supported with any facts. Technically, gays ARE a minority so they are not going to be represented as much in the media but people aren't going to forget their existence (word policing like this, DODT, and the marriage debate are all prominent). Protests to have them forced in would just be obvious pandering and not organic. WASP, cracker, honkie, Dead White Males, and this broad portrayal as the oppressor are all used towards WHM so it's not true that they don't have any slurs. They just don't hold much power (for most people) because there's no history of murder or discrimination behind them (that still doesn't make them ok as generalizations). Something like "colored" or "negro" does. There's also a big difference between hearing a word spoken and being genuinely discriminated against like with the marriage debate. They are not one in the same and words don't always cause actions. It seems we are just expected to accept these things without an explanation.
Even if all these arguments are true, it still doesn't give people the right to determine what others say. It's getting to the point where any outrage can be manufactured and you never know when something said in public can lead to a lost job or denial of a public forum to speak. (Most of these apologies usually come from coercion or after exposure, not from genuine sorrow. We all know this but we still accept fake apologies, which means we weren't really upset in the first place.) We don't have a right to not be offended by something. We can't sanitize everything and this trendy college liberalism is not going to get society anywhere.
If a comedian, for example, tells a joke about white people or Mexicans, we all know it's just a joke. But (some) gays lately have taken it upon themselves to ignore context and intent. Most of you know he wasn't going after gays. Did any of you really think this guy meant "I hate gay people and wish to do them harm. I'm expressing this by using the word 'fag'"? My issue with this stuff and the diversity bandwagon in general is the separation of people into groups based on superficial things and then holding them to different standards. It's the opposite of equality.
I don't have an issue with gay people but treating gays like victims (or white hetero males as victimizers, the one negative generalization a couple of you have made without any sense of hypocrisy) only divides people further rather than bringing them together. "Fag" used in humor or in replacement of "wimp" or "idiot" is not intended to be hateful towards gays. The speaker's intent is what matters the most.
Many of the arguments I've heard in the past don't work. Stuff about creating an atmosphere of violence are rarely ever supported with any facts. Technically, gays ARE a minority so they are not going to be represented as much in the media but people aren't going to forget their existence (word policing like this, DODT, and the marriage debate are all prominent). Protests to have them forced in would just be obvious pandering and not organic. WASP, cracker, honkie, Dead White Males, and this broad portrayal as the oppressor are all used towards WHM so it's not true that they don't have any slurs. They just don't hold much power (for most people) because there's no history of murder or discrimination behind them (that still doesn't make them ok as generalizations). Something like "colored" or "negro" does. There's also a big difference between hearing a word spoken and being genuinely discriminated against like with the marriage debate. They are not one in the same and words don't always cause actions. It seems we are just expected to accept these things without an explanation.
Even if all these arguments are true, it still doesn't give people the right to determine what others say. It's getting to the point where any outrage can be manufactured and you never know when something said in public can lead to a lost job or denial of a public forum to speak. (Most of these apologies usually come from coercion or after exposure, not from genuine sorrow. We all know this but we still accept fake apologies, which means we weren't really upset in the first place.) We don't have a right to not be offended by something. We can't sanitize everything and this trendy college liberalism is not going to get society anywhere.
@enteringoblivion: I almost never read comments as long as yours but it contains so much Truth Juice™ that I must applaud you.
Everything he just said.
Everything he just said.
Wait, fag is a derogatory term for gay people? I was under the impression it referred to inconsiderate jerks who ride Harleys? ;)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I7hQN4Amaeg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I7hQN4Amaeg
@enteringoblivion
"I don't have an issue with gay people but treating gays like victims (or white hetero males as victimizers, the one negative generalization a couple of you have made without any sense of hypocrisy) only divides people further rather than bringing them together. "Fag" used in humor or in replacement of "wimp" or "idiot" is not intended to be hateful towards gays. The speaker's intent is what matters the most."
Gay people are victims, they're victims of homophobia every single day. That comment is outright ridiculous. How can you say a group of people are not victims when there are laws against them and religion is used against them on a daily basis to deny them to be treated equally?
Gay people were divided from society in the first place. No change happened until we made a big deal about homophobia and being treated less than equal. So it's asinine to suggest gay people are being 'divided' and not treated the same because we challenge the homophobia that happens. If it wasn't challenge what people said at all, things wouldn't change.
'Fag' is not used in humor as 'idiot' or 'wimp'. The word is meant as a derogatory term for gay people. These other definitions came a long when people decided they needed to make excuses for the things they say. And even if you want to go down the route of it meaning 'idiot' or 'wimp' the only reason it would become those words is because of the negative feelings towards homosexuality and how people perceive someone 'effeminate' a 'sissy' or a 'wimp'.
Asking to be treated normally and not have derogatory terms thrown around so easily is not asking to be held to different standards. We don't even get held to the same standards right now by the majority.
"Many of the arguments I've heard in the past don't work. Stuff about creating an atmosphere of violence are rarely ever supported with any facts."
It is so easy to say that when you haven't supported anything you say with these 'supposed' facts that needed to be provided. It just sounds like you disagree with these arguments and this is your way of totally discrediting those arguments.
'I don't have an issue with gay people but'
Starting off any sentence like this suggests that there is a problem. If you didn't have a problem with any group of people, then you wouldn't feel the need to state at all.
I'm sure my arguments don't support any facts. So this will be my last reply to the article. I'm sure what I am typing is just a waste of time.
"I don't have an issue with gay people but treating gays like victims (or white hetero males as victimizers, the one negative generalization a couple of you have made without any sense of hypocrisy) only divides people further rather than bringing them together. "Fag" used in humor or in replacement of "wimp" or "idiot" is not intended to be hateful towards gays. The speaker's intent is what matters the most."
Gay people are victims, they're victims of homophobia every single day. That comment is outright ridiculous. How can you say a group of people are not victims when there are laws against them and religion is used against them on a daily basis to deny them to be treated equally?
Gay people were divided from society in the first place. No change happened until we made a big deal about homophobia and being treated less than equal. So it's asinine to suggest gay people are being 'divided' and not treated the same because we challenge the homophobia that happens. If it wasn't challenge what people said at all, things wouldn't change.
'Fag' is not used in humor as 'idiot' or 'wimp'. The word is meant as a derogatory term for gay people. These other definitions came a long when people decided they needed to make excuses for the things they say. And even if you want to go down the route of it meaning 'idiot' or 'wimp' the only reason it would become those words is because of the negative feelings towards homosexuality and how people perceive someone 'effeminate' a 'sissy' or a 'wimp'.
Asking to be treated normally and not have derogatory terms thrown around so easily is not asking to be held to different standards. We don't even get held to the same standards right now by the majority.
"Many of the arguments I've heard in the past don't work. Stuff about creating an atmosphere of violence are rarely ever supported with any facts."
It is so easy to say that when you haven't supported anything you say with these 'supposed' facts that needed to be provided. It just sounds like you disagree with these arguments and this is your way of totally discrediting those arguments.
'I don't have an issue with gay people but'
Starting off any sentence like this suggests that there is a problem. If you didn't have a problem with any group of people, then you wouldn't feel the need to state at all.
I'm sure my arguments don't support any facts. So this will be my last reply to the article. I'm sure what I am typing is just a waste of time.
follow
