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"The ds is right there with the best third party support on any single platform"
Don't even try to compare the ease of supporting a portable to a console.
Don't even try to compare the ease of supporting a portable to a console.
@Shadowii
I won't outright blame 3rd parties yet, but when both your handheld and home console have huge support from some of the biggest publishers(capcom and Ubisoft) it's hard to say Nintendo isn't working hard to obtain 3rd party support.
So if Nintendo is trying and nothing happens... who is left to blame?
I won't outright blame 3rd parties yet, but when both your handheld and home console have huge support from some of the biggest publishers(capcom and Ubisoft) it's hard to say Nintendo isn't working hard to obtain 3rd party support.
So if Nintendo is trying and nothing happens... who is left to blame?
As a person that works on games, I see nothing wrong with this, the only reason to work on a port side by side with the others is if you knew that there was profit in doing so, the fact that the console isn't even out yet means that they have know idea how well the console could do, it could flop, if it did that would be a wasted amount of time/effort/money and there still polishing the PC version of the game, which is where the 360 and PS3 version comes from, since the PC version is written in C++, so if there is enough interest the PC version will be ported to a Wii U dev kit, settings will be adjusted and tweaked to run on the Wii U and so forth, if the Wii U gets spammed with Shovelware like the Wii did, most 3rd Partys are not going to bother making games for it since there going to be pushed away next to a crowded market of crap. There decision makes sense and they do have a lot of excuses making games for an released console, next time try looking at it from another perspective, nobody knows how the Wii U is going to do, and there are more skeptics then believers as of right now
@orniletter
Yeah I know. It's still just hard to not poke fun at these after how Arkham City's port was handled.
Also it could be possible that fugly duckling just doesn't like the DS's library, but I think the point he is trying to make (or at least how I feel about it) is that the DS does have a good library, but it's buried under shit. Yes, every console has shovelware, but not to the extent of DS and Wii. I literally couldn't find a good quality used DS/Wii game the last time I went to Best Buy and Gamestop because they were all buried under imagine puppiez/workout trainers/brain trainers/ carnival minigame compilations/etc.
Yeah I know. It's still just hard to not poke fun at these after how Arkham City's port was handled.
Also it could be possible that fugly duckling just doesn't like the DS's library, but I think the point he is trying to make (or at least how I feel about it) is that the DS does have a good library, but it's buried under shit. Yes, every console has shovelware, but not to the extent of DS and Wii. I literally couldn't find a good quality used DS/Wii game the last time I went to Best Buy and Gamestop because they were all buried under imagine puppiez/workout trainers/brain trainers/ carnival minigame compilations/etc.
@Stealth:
Yes ! And I donīt even have every game I want for the DS...there are 20+ games I still need to pick up !
Yes ! And I donīt even have every game I want for the DS...there are 20+ games I still need to pick up !
I'm sorry but the DS had a plethora of great games going for it. One of the best applications of the touch screen for me was Trauma Center and its use of the touch screen for surgery. Sigh now I want a trauma center for Wii U
I'm not concerned with the WiiU version being released much later than the PS3 version. On a newer system, with some extra features it may very well be the best version of the game.
Why the hell aren't we seeing anything of titles like Zelda, Metroid, and the next 3D Mario? The titles that will sell me a Nintendo system, and will make me want to play Bioshock on the WiiU too! We should be seeing gameplay videos by now.
Why the hell aren't we seeing anything of titles like Zelda, Metroid, and the next 3D Mario? The titles that will sell me a Nintendo system, and will make me want to play Bioshock on the WiiU too! We should be seeing gameplay videos by now.
I don't see why anyone would buy a Wii U as it stands right now. Maybe in a year or two but it all depends on the games and REAL third party support.
@llort het
" I literally couldn't find a good quality used DS/Wii game the last time I went to Best Buy and Gamestop because they were all buried under imagine puppiez/workout trainers/brain trainers/ carnival minigame compilations/etc."
I'd say that is more a problem of Gamestop throwing out the cases for used DS games rather than there just not being any good ones.
If you can't easily find quality third party games on the DS, you need to take the blindfold off.
" I literally couldn't find a good quality used DS/Wii game the last time I went to Best Buy and Gamestop because they were all buried under imagine puppiez/workout trainers/brain trainers/ carnival minigame compilations/etc."
I'd say that is more a problem of Gamestop throwing out the cases for used DS games rather than there just not being any good ones.
If you can't easily find quality third party games on the DS, you need to take the blindfold off.
No surprise. Nintendo doesn't cater to third parties. It seems they're attempting to do better this time around, but just like with online play they're far too behind. Holmes seems to be putting the fault on the developers, but it isn't in their park. As the platform holder it's Nintendo's job to make their platform enticing to both users and developers. If the developers haven't jumped towards it, Nintendo isn't doing that job very well.
As a comparison, look at this gen. Microsoft tripped all over themselves making the 360 easy to develop for and trying their best to get third parties supporting it. Sony said fuck you to developers and made a system intentionally difficult to develop for. Nintendo stayed in last gen and made it impossible for games on the other consoles to be supported. The result? MS got quick and early third party support. Sony was hurting for a couple years before they got good third party support, and a could more before we weren't seeing noticeable differences between the two versions (Bayonetta is a perfect example) and not they finally have about the same support as the 360. Wii is still dead in the water for third parties.
We still don't know much about the Wii U's specs aside from vaguely more powerful than current gen. Nintendo isn't doing enough to entice 3rd party devs, or we'd have more 3rd party games coming to it sooner. On top of that, the big fear is that the next Sony and MS consoles will leapfrog the Wii U and Nintendo will be stuck once again a generation behind, making any investment in the console now somewhat of a waste.
So can you really blame 3rd parties for not jumping in immediately? There's plenty of reason to be skeptical.
As a comparison, look at this gen. Microsoft tripped all over themselves making the 360 easy to develop for and trying their best to get third parties supporting it. Sony said fuck you to developers and made a system intentionally difficult to develop for. Nintendo stayed in last gen and made it impossible for games on the other consoles to be supported. The result? MS got quick and early third party support. Sony was hurting for a couple years before they got good third party support, and a could more before we weren't seeing noticeable differences between the two versions (Bayonetta is a perfect example) and not they finally have about the same support as the 360. Wii is still dead in the water for third parties.
We still don't know much about the Wii U's specs aside from vaguely more powerful than current gen. Nintendo isn't doing enough to entice 3rd party devs, or we'd have more 3rd party games coming to it sooner. On top of that, the big fear is that the next Sony and MS consoles will leapfrog the Wii U and Nintendo will be stuck once again a generation behind, making any investment in the console now somewhat of a waste.
So can you really blame 3rd parties for not jumping in immediately? There's plenty of reason to be skeptical.
Man, what happen to Holmes. He seems resentful and pissy. Kind of like everyone that works for Dtoid.
Some of the best stuff on the Wii was 3rd party stuff that WASN'T on the PS3 or 360. But nobody ever mentions that 2-way street.
Where is it written down that Nintendo has to be in the same circle jerk as Sony & Microsoft. They've always done their own thing, and that is what makes them so fucking cool, and that should be celebrated, not bitched about, when in the big picture, Bioshock Infinite on Wii U has no bearing on the success of the console.
Ports are there and they are trying to get them going, but goddamn, it is such a small part of what matters when it comes to Nintendo.
Some of the best stuff on the Wii was 3rd party stuff that WASN'T on the PS3 or 360. But nobody ever mentions that 2-way street.
Where is it written down that Nintendo has to be in the same circle jerk as Sony & Microsoft. They've always done their own thing, and that is what makes them so fucking cool, and that should be celebrated, not bitched about, when in the big picture, Bioshock Infinite on Wii U has no bearing on the success of the console.
Ports are there and they are trying to get them going, but goddamn, it is such a small part of what matters when it comes to Nintendo.
Nintendo's made their name off selling your childhood back to you in new and (sometimes) interesting ways. I'll get excited for the WiiU when they start showing off the first party offerings. Until then, I'll play Bioshock Infinite on a real controller.
And yeah, the DS was awesome, but 1. It was a handheld, and we've seen how portable touch screen devices have totally taken off for gaming and 2. It's WAY easier to make a game for something with that much weaker hardware than going for an Unreal 3 fat budget game on a console that people might be just buying for Pikmin 3.
I don't hate Nintendo; far from it. I have every console up until this gen (Wii, 3DS) in my house right now, and play them over my Xbox any day. But I really think Nintendo's been burning third party bridges from the start, so seeing developers being cautious isn't cause to blame THEM.
And I already posted the definition of a gimmick, so you can stop saying "a gimmick means it doesn't have good games," because that ISN'T IN THE DEFINITION. Kinect was a gimmick. The Wiimote and Move were gimmicks. They're tacked on things to try and move more units. Nintendo's been doing this for years (*pulls out his powerpad, NES Zapper, Super Scope, NES Max, NES Advantage, Super Game Boy, R.O.B., Wii Speak, N64 and Gamecube MIcs, etc.) so you might as well just embrace that truth.
And yeah, the DS was awesome, but 1. It was a handheld, and we've seen how portable touch screen devices have totally taken off for gaming and 2. It's WAY easier to make a game for something with that much weaker hardware than going for an Unreal 3 fat budget game on a console that people might be just buying for Pikmin 3.
I don't hate Nintendo; far from it. I have every console up until this gen (Wii, 3DS) in my house right now, and play them over my Xbox any day. But I really think Nintendo's been burning third party bridges from the start, so seeing developers being cautious isn't cause to blame THEM.
And I already posted the definition of a gimmick, so you can stop saying "a gimmick means it doesn't have good games," because that ISN'T IN THE DEFINITION. Kinect was a gimmick. The Wiimote and Move were gimmicks. They're tacked on things to try and move more units. Nintendo's been doing this for years (*pulls out his powerpad, NES Zapper, Super Scope, NES Max, NES Advantage, Super Game Boy, R.O.B., Wii Speak, N64 and Gamecube MIcs, etc.) so you might as well just embrace that truth.
I think the lesson to take away from this article is that Wii U, PS4, and XBOX720 don't matter. New systems = higher development costs = Bigger gap between indie and AAA games.
The 3DS is shaping up to be the only "next-gen" system that matters because that is where it is cheapest for developers to create without sacrificing quality or having to shut down a studio after each major release.
The 3DS is shaping up to be the only "next-gen" system that matters because that is where it is cheapest for developers to create without sacrificing quality or having to shut down a studio after each major release.
@monkey bomb
Again, I didn't say there weren't any quality DS games. I said that the quality DS games were a mere speck completely inundated by an abyss of shit. I must be wearing a blindfold then, because while I like my DS, I stopped trying to buy games for it, because like I said, it's almost worth more trouble than it's worth to dig through shovelware.
Again, I didn't say there weren't any quality DS games. I said that the quality DS games were a mere speck completely inundated by an abyss of shit. I must be wearing a blindfold then, because while I like my DS, I stopped trying to buy games for it, because like I said, it's almost worth more trouble than it's worth to dig through shovelware.
I can't say I'm surprised, I imagine programming a game for a console with an additional screen with a new chipset after you've been developing that game for several years for 3 other platforms takes time. I also think the fact they're doing it at all is incredible.
Still, Bioshock didn't make it to PS3 for a long time, so it isn't unique for the series.
Still, Bioshock didn't make it to PS3 for a long time, so it isn't unique for the series.
As long as they get the casual market to buy an other 90 million of their consoles, it doesn't even matter if they have games.
@Brainwasher
Woot!
^.^
I still need to get past little kings story and fragile ruins... and a bunch of others...
@.@;;
Woot!
^.^
I still need to get past little kings story and fragile ruins... and a bunch of others...
@.@;;
orniletter
For both the ds and psp its constant importing
just ignore the nintendo trolling
its tradition before a system launch
For both the ds and psp its constant importing
just ignore the nintendo trolling
its tradition before a system launch
@Monkey Bomb
Newer systems don't automatically make dev costs higher. Newer systems will be able to support tools like Unreal Engine 4, which makes iteration incredibly fast. Because of that, UE4 games will be much cheaper to develop than UE3 games.
New consoles don't matter for the gap between AAA and indie. In fact, if they do more like XBLIG (perhaps something better in the same realm), new consoles could do a lot to close that gap.
Newer systems don't automatically make dev costs higher. Newer systems will be able to support tools like Unreal Engine 4, which makes iteration incredibly fast. Because of that, UE4 games will be much cheaper to develop than UE3 games.
New consoles don't matter for the gap between AAA and indie. In fact, if they do more like XBLIG (perhaps something better in the same realm), new consoles could do a lot to close that gap.
The nintendo effect: Having a machine with 100 games you got no interest in for ever 1 you do.
Often leading me to only get 3 or so games for every consols i buy and feeling disappointed.
Often leading me to only get 3 or so games for every consols i buy and feeling disappointed.
@Stealth:
It's only a feature if it adds something desirable. One person's "feature" is another person's "gimmick". You might see the Wii-U's controller as a feature that adds value. A lot of us, though, see it as NOT adding value, and in fact as an irritating distraction. For us, it's a gimmick.
I would *avoid* buying the Wii-U version of a game that used the touchscreen. I have yet to see any implementation of it that appealed to me. You have to look beyond the initial novelty and ask "is this going to get old?" Most of what I see would get old fast, mostly because looking away from the actual tv/monitor is irritating.
It's only a feature if it adds something desirable. One person's "feature" is another person's "gimmick". You might see the Wii-U's controller as a feature that adds value. A lot of us, though, see it as NOT adding value, and in fact as an irritating distraction. For us, it's a gimmick.
I would *avoid* buying the Wii-U version of a game that used the touchscreen. I have yet to see any implementation of it that appealed to me. You have to look beyond the initial novelty and ask "is this going to get old?" Most of what I see would get old fast, mostly because looking away from the actual tv/monitor is irritating.
^ in terms of gaming thats how its used.
@themaud, thats what I call the 360 effect.
Ive been very happy overall with ps3 and wii
I need them both
@themaud, thats what I call the 360 effect.
Ive been very happy overall with ps3 and wii
I need them both
@jinx
Its a feature if its something that used. Whether its desirable or not is different for each person and not really important.
Dont say "alot of us" you cant prove that. Just tell me how you feel. thats all I need to know.
Thats you, which is fine
Me? The ds single handedly proved the potential of a touch screen. 2 in fact. I am ready for it.
The ds was that fantastic.
Its a feature if its something that used. Whether its desirable or not is different for each person and not really important.
Dont say "alot of us" you cant prove that. Just tell me how you feel. thats all I need to know.
Thats you, which is fine
Me? The ds single handedly proved the potential of a touch screen. 2 in fact. I am ready for it.
The ds was that fantastic.
@Stealth
To me the ds single handedly proved the touchscreen was pretty useless. All my favorite DS/3DS games use it only for menus and maps. Loved the DS anyways, but in spite of the touchscreen, not because of it. Even the games I loved that used to touchscreen (Geometry Wars Galaxies) would have been much better with analog sticks. (Wii version with classic controller was much better.)
Same thing with the Wii, all my favorite Wii games barely use motion control and I'd enjoy more without it.
That's just my experience though. Clearly people like motion controls and touchscreens, or they wouldn't be everywhere.
To me the ds single handedly proved the touchscreen was pretty useless. All my favorite DS/3DS games use it only for menus and maps. Loved the DS anyways, but in spite of the touchscreen, not because of it. Even the games I loved that used to touchscreen (Geometry Wars Galaxies) would have been much better with analog sticks. (Wii version with classic controller was much better.)
Same thing with the Wii, all my favorite Wii games barely use motion control and I'd enjoy more without it.
That's just my experience though. Clearly people like motion controls and touchscreens, or they wouldn't be everywhere.
@caramel
I really loved it for the menus and the maps. And I liked it for the puzzles they put on it especially in layton, and other things.
It depends on the game. Not every game used it for some supper purpose but it was there for anyoen to use it only if they wantes
I respect your opinion though
I really loved it for the menus and the maps. And I liked it for the puzzles they put on it especially in layton, and other things.
It depends on the game. Not every game used it for some supper purpose but it was there for anyoen to use it only if they wantes
I respect your opinion though
Well, considering the console is five years late to the current generation... This seems only fitting.
@Stealth
Its good there is different tastes out there.
What makes people sour towards nintendo consols are their extream turn around. They put out one version, then another and another.
The DSi thing was just weird... i thought it was gonna be the new DS but then that was extremly quickly replaced by a bigger version and then the 3DS... which is getting a new version a year or so later.
So nintendo... they dont make you feel confident.
Its good there is different tastes out there.
What makes people sour towards nintendo consols are their extream turn around. They put out one version, then another and another.
The DSi thing was just weird... i thought it was gonna be the new DS but then that was extremly quickly replaced by a bigger version and then the 3DS... which is getting a new version a year or so later.
So nintendo... they dont make you feel confident.
@stealth
I always read how amazing the DS library is. I've had mine for a few years now and the only games that have really held my attention have been SNES ports, or their ilk. Could you point me towards your favorite games that really showcase the DS? You seem quite passionate about it so I figure you must have some recommendations. PM please as I rarely check back on comments. I'd like to like my DS as much as you.
I always read how amazing the DS library is. I've had mine for a few years now and the only games that have really held my attention have been SNES ports, or their ilk. Could you point me towards your favorite games that really showcase the DS? You seem quite passionate about it so I figure you must have some recommendations. PM please as I rarely check back on comments. I'd like to like my DS as much as you.
Can you imagine how incredibly appealing the Wii U would be if they had a line up of A list games released around a year earlier? I don't know about everyone else, but I wait for 90% of my game purchases to drop to $19.99 or at most 29.99 before buying them. Because of this there are like tons and tons of games I still want to play but are still too expensive. If nintento somehow got these games and sold them for $20 at release, I'd be all over buying a Wii U just for all those sweet discounts.
one last point about the maps
especially in the castlevanias
I hated having to switch back and forth
its just better when the map is there and you dont have to switch to a menu to get to it
@Themuad
In terms of consoles, microsoft and sony both put out more models. Unless yor talking about handhelds, even then its close
They do it because it works. You might not like it. Sounds like you dont. But there is a reason why apple is the most profitable company ever
@dtomek
Sorry, but the destructoid pm system is a piece of crap
here is a link to a blog I wrote about ds titles
http://www.destructoid.com/blogs/Stealth/essential-ds-game-owners-guide-230560.phtml
especially in the castlevanias
I hated having to switch back and forth
its just better when the map is there and you dont have to switch to a menu to get to it
@Themuad
In terms of consoles, microsoft and sony both put out more models. Unless yor talking about handhelds, even then its close
They do it because it works. You might not like it. Sounds like you dont. But there is a reason why apple is the most profitable company ever
@dtomek
Sorry, but the destructoid pm system is a piece of crap
here is a link to a blog I wrote about ds titles
http://www.destructoid.com/blogs/Stealth/essential-ds-game-owners-guide-230560.phtml
^ Its important to me, that if people are going to hate on a system. They at least have all the facts. I initially did those blogs so people would always have an option
I have absolutely no desire to buy a system that attempts to offer a 'new' experience by using unique hardware to do/show me the same thing in a mini map and menu can do. Similarly, I don't understand how anyone can enjoy waggle, which was a terribly imprecise input that replaced more accurate conventional means. Furthermore, their first party line up of exclusives is getting so stale and tiring, I'm more in shock that there are people still insistent on buying each iteration (at least at launch at full price).
But, of course, we need Stealth to shove repetitive points of "the DS is the best system!", "it sells tons and there are 'uses' for it, so it can't be a gimmick!", and "my definitions, that I make up, are more accurate and better applied than any others, also, the previous point I made further proves my made up definitions!"
Without Stealth, Nintendo would surely be crying in a corner from hurt feelings, and thank God he spams comment sections as if anyone gives a shit about his dozen comments (beyond a single person seriously wondering 'wtf is so good that has him preaching like a ridiculous, fanatical zealot!?).
But, of course, we need Stealth to shove repetitive points of "the DS is the best system!", "it sells tons and there are 'uses' for it, so it can't be a gimmick!", and "my definitions, that I make up, are more accurate and better applied than any others, also, the previous point I made further proves my made up definitions!"
Without Stealth, Nintendo would surely be crying in a corner from hurt feelings, and thank God he spams comment sections as if anyone gives a shit about his dozen comments (beyond a single person seriously wondering 'wtf is so good that has him preaching like a ridiculous, fanatical zealot!?).
@Stealth
people put to much effort into hating stuff.
if they put halve that effort into finding good games....
people put to much effort into hating stuff.
if they put halve that effort into finding good games....
@Jinx01
Speak for yourself. I've seen people who are only moderately interested in Wii U say how awesome it is that they can play the game like a handheld while others use the TV and other such features that come with it.
Who are you exactly to say how much of Destructoid views the Wii U as a total gimmick?
Speak for yourself. I've seen people who are only moderately interested in Wii U say how awesome it is that they can play the game like a handheld while others use the TV and other such features that come with it.
Who are you exactly to say how much of Destructoid views the Wii U as a total gimmick?
@evil
Its why Ive more or less given up commenting here. This I felt like I could help some people so I made the effort.
But I guess hating on something is tradition before any new launch, so its par for the course.
I agree I think most hate comes from lack of research
Its why Ive more or less given up commenting here. This I felt like I could help some people so I made the effort.
But I guess hating on something is tradition before any new launch, so its par for the course.
I agree I think most hate comes from lack of research
@Arttemis
I enjoy stealth's enthusiasm
if only more fans would say good things about their favourite system instead of talk sh*t about all the other systems
I enjoy stealth's enthusiasm
if only more fans would say good things about their favourite system instead of talk sh*t about all the other systems
@evil.
Just ignore him. If you dont say something negative, your a fanboy, and must work for nintendo apparently.
Just ignore him. If you dont say something negative, your a fanboy, and must work for nintendo apparently.
I hate the mentality that a lot of these western third party developers have on Nintendo consoles. Maybe if they actively tried to put out their best games on Nintendo consoles they would have success on the system. They have no excuse this time since the Wii-U won't have a vastly different controller or be underpowered compared to the competition. If they're not going to put out games at the same time as the ps3/360 version obviously it won't sell as much and it just shows their incompetence. If third parties give the same amount of effort as Nintendo I will probably buy third party games on the Wii-U. I would love the cycle of mediocre third party support to end. Anyway, excellent post Holmes!
THIS dosnt make any sense Why peeps getting all upsetfor? Its not like there will be anybody outthere wholl be exclusive WiiU owner. For that matter are there even any exclusively Wii gamers lol NUFF SaYD
@stealth:
I agree with you...on everything! I just canīt understand the furious hate every Wii U article spawns...weather it be the hardware that supposedly is "garbage" or the concept alltogether "Why do i need a map on the screen/looking down is distracting hurr durr",or the game line up, which really isnīt bad at all, even if you only take the exclusives...
I agree with you...on everything! I just canīt understand the furious hate every Wii U article spawns...weather it be the hardware that supposedly is "garbage" or the concept alltogether "Why do i need a map on the screen/looking down is distracting hurr durr",or the game line up, which really isnīt bad at all, even if you only take the exclusives...
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