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Gamers seem incredibly defensive of the way things were and currently are. Personally I kind of agree with what she's saying. imo The actual combat is my least favorite part about Mass effect or WRPGs in general. The combat in a lot of the games seem to be thrown in the game just to have that consistent moment to moment thing that ends up being more background noise than the reason I play the game. Cut the bullshit and focus on the part they worked on the most. Why not? Tbh some of these games that want to focus on story need to stop with the focus on how they are implementing combat because they end up feeling like they are combating each other. I'm not saying they can't exist in harmony together but currently they always feel like two uncomplimentary things.
You people do realize that she works FOR a GAME DEVELOPER. She understands how games work and how they are made better than 99% of the so-called "gamerz" who are blasting her.
It is like saying she cannot write a movie script if she never directed a film or acted in a scene. She is a WRITER at Bioware. Her job is to create characters and a story...not to know that A A B Y is some super slam combo.
It is like saying she cannot write a movie script if she never directed a film or acted in a scene. She is a WRITER at Bioware. Her job is to create characters and a story...not to know that A A B Y is some super slam combo.
they do realise the past few mario games let you skip levels if you fail enough, or in Mordern Warefare you could skip the airport level
WHAT IS THE PROBLEM?
WHAT IS THE PROBLEM?
@Sugar Unicorn - Grow up. Games industry positions aren't as "coveted" as you seen to think considering unemployment is skyscraper high and there are actually jobs more prestigious than writing for a company that bangs out sequels. Authors, if they're good (and by all accounts, she's at least good to receive a position at BW) write material regardless of their personal tastes -it's their job. Fantasy and sci-fi are the ONLY topics that would help when writing for DA or ME. Guess what. I'll sure plenty of industry witters are writing for the paycheck, and not because gaming is high-art.
That's not even the root of the issue though. This entire debacle was caused by hundreds of despicably hateful assholes who think one witter is responsible for BW's shift toward action - like any witter has anywhere near that influence to begin with. I have no idea what the hell is wadding your panties, but this woman was attacked in a much more ferocious manner than internet fools (like yourself) would do to a man, and when she responds to the "cunt" comments with a vag-jealousy remark on her PERSONAL twitter, you act like she's committed a sin.
Grow up. You're acting like a baby because someone doesn't like games and defended themselves against other babies attacking her.
That's not even the root of the issue though. This entire debacle was caused by hundreds of despicably hateful assholes who think one witter is responsible for BW's shift toward action - like any witter has anywhere near that influence to begin with. I have no idea what the hell is wadding your panties, but this woman was attacked in a much more ferocious manner than internet fools (like yourself) would do to a man, and when she responds to the "cunt" comments with a vag-jealousy remark on her PERSONAL twitter, you act like she's committed a sin.
Grow up. You're acting like a baby because someone doesn't like games and defended themselves against other babies attacking her.
She is a horrible writer who doesnt even enjoy playing video games. If you sympathize with her or her Stephanie myers esque writing you are just contributing to the fall of bioware and probably enjoy bad yaoi fanfiction
I still have to wonder why, in this thread, it seems SHE'S getting the majority of shit simply because she defended herself.
Trolls hurl insults. Water wet. We know that. Still, the people they do this to are people. What fucking sense does it make to then give HER shit because she responded and defended herself from gross amounts of abuse being heaped on her? *It's still the trolls who are in the wrong for being fucking pricks.*
"Oh, and that was arrogant of her to say what she did about having a games industry job!" Fuck off. So you want a games industry job because you like games -- so what? She's a writer. Writers contribute constantly to media other than that which they're used to (Clive Barker's Jericho is one game that springs to mind off the top of my head). They don't owe it to you to be a gamer to have the job they do. Fuck you, what an entitled point of view to have.
As for gender -- it all goes back to gender in some way or another. The gendered insults (bitch/cunt), the physique-based insults (how dare a woman in gaming not be attractive!), plus the whining about "shoehorning homosexual characters"? Homophobia and exceptions taken to homosexual characters is ALWAYS, always, always based in aversion to perceived femininity. Gaming is a MAN'S hobby, bitch! How dare you "sissy it up" with damned homosexuals?
Trolls hurl insults. Water wet. We know that. Still, the people they do this to are people. What fucking sense does it make to then give HER shit because she responded and defended herself from gross amounts of abuse being heaped on her? *It's still the trolls who are in the wrong for being fucking pricks.*
"Oh, and that was arrogant of her to say what she did about having a games industry job!" Fuck off. So you want a games industry job because you like games -- so what? She's a writer. Writers contribute constantly to media other than that which they're used to (Clive Barker's Jericho is one game that springs to mind off the top of my head). They don't owe it to you to be a gamer to have the job they do. Fuck you, what an entitled point of view to have.
As for gender -- it all goes back to gender in some way or another. The gendered insults (bitch/cunt), the physique-based insults (how dare a woman in gaming not be attractive!), plus the whining about "shoehorning homosexual characters"? Homophobia and exceptions taken to homosexual characters is ALWAYS, always, always based in aversion to perceived femininity. Gaming is a MAN'S hobby, bitch! How dare you "sissy it up" with damned homosexuals?
Their have been countless vidya games where I've thought "man I wish I could skip this part". People are really so enraged that a thing dare be suggested? God I would be happy if such a feature were standard across all video games. Likewise every game should have level select upon completion so if I really enjoyed it I get to re-experience my favorite parts. How are these kinds of things bad? its an option, no more no less. We're allowed to skip dialogue and cut-scenes, gameplay should be no different.
lol. cznnot wait to see this crybaby get pummeled on the interwebs. Dont dish it out if you cant take ift
I gotta give props to that GM, Flynn. We need more devs that call asshole fans out when they are being douchebags.
If you honestly dont see. The far reaching implications of developers having the option to skip gameplay and its contributions to lazy game design your simple minded
@Arttemis "Games industry positions aren't as "coveted" as you seen to think considering unemployment is skyscraper high and there are actually jobs more prestigious than writing for a company that bangs out sequels."
I hope you realize that this statement makes positively no logical sense.
And yes, of course. I am an 'immature baby' for expecting that professional adults conduct themselves maturely enough not to bother to engage in a obscenity-riddled flame-war with 12 year old internet bottom feeding trolls. Trolls are anonymous children. Flynn and Hepler are professionals conducting themselves under the Bioware name.
I don't know many workplace environments where participating in such nonsense would be encouraged, least of participating in it with "you're just jealous of my vagina, fuck you moron fucking idiot". Why are these children even worth the time of day?
I hope you realize that this statement makes positively no logical sense.
And yes, of course. I am an 'immature baby' for expecting that professional adults conduct themselves maturely enough not to bother to engage in a obscenity-riddled flame-war with 12 year old internet bottom feeding trolls. Trolls are anonymous children. Flynn and Hepler are professionals conducting themselves under the Bioware name.
I don't know many workplace environments where participating in such nonsense would be encouraged, least of participating in it with "you're just jealous of my vagina, fuck you moron fucking idiot". Why are these children even worth the time of day?
"It is like saying she cannot write a movie script if she never directed a film or acted in a scene."
This is a false analogy. It's more like saying that someone cannot write a movie script if s/he had never seen/seriously enjoyed a movie. Is this true? I don't know, it's debatable. But nobody's saying that she has to DESIGN a game to be a good video-game writer - just to PLAY them.
"Fuck off. So you want a games industry job because you like games -- so what? She's a writer. Writers contribute constantly to media other than that which they're used to (Clive Barker's Jericho is one game that springs to mind off the top of my head)."
Yeah, and that game had god-awful writing. Same thing with Mirror's Edge, Gears of War 2 and 3, and pretty much every other game with a writer or director from another medium that I can think of. I'm not saying that she deserves this ridiculous amount of criticism - hell, I think these people attacking her are total scumbags - but this idea that good writing is interchangeable between mediums is totally, totally false. It doesn't work that way with books and movies, or interactive fiction (text adventures), or visual novels, and it sure as hell doesn't work that way in video games. Now, if you have a developer who's smart enough to know this and advise the writer in this regard, then the writer not knowing the medium isn't an issue. They don't have to like games - they just have to know how they work.
This is a false analogy. It's more like saying that someone cannot write a movie script if s/he had never seen/seriously enjoyed a movie. Is this true? I don't know, it's debatable. But nobody's saying that she has to DESIGN a game to be a good video-game writer - just to PLAY them.
"Fuck off. So you want a games industry job because you like games -- so what? She's a writer. Writers contribute constantly to media other than that which they're used to (Clive Barker's Jericho is one game that springs to mind off the top of my head)."
Yeah, and that game had god-awful writing. Same thing with Mirror's Edge, Gears of War 2 and 3, and pretty much every other game with a writer or director from another medium that I can think of. I'm not saying that she deserves this ridiculous amount of criticism - hell, I think these people attacking her are total scumbags - but this idea that good writing is interchangeable between mediums is totally, totally false. It doesn't work that way with books and movies, or interactive fiction (text adventures), or visual novels, and it sure as hell doesn't work that way in video games. Now, if you have a developer who's smart enough to know this and advise the writer in this regard, then the writer not knowing the medium isn't an issue. They don't have to like games - they just have to know how they work.
"If you honestly dont see. The far reaching implications of developers having the option to skip gameplay and its contributions to lazy game design your simple minded"
Best comment ever.
Best comment ever.
And this is why video game fans get a bad reputation from mainstream press: because a faction of idiots make a giant ruckus over some stupid B.S. like this. Being grouped in together with these guys seriously irks me.
@VicYoungblood
>caring about mainstream press
>mainstream press
Why would you care what the mainstream press have to say about video games? All they do is nerdbait.
>caring about mainstream press
>mainstream press
Why would you care what the mainstream press have to say about video games? All they do is nerdbait.
What a giant cluster fuck all around. I've never even heard of this woman before. Upon looking up what she did: she wrote most of the dwarf stuff in DA: Origins, which was actually relatively solid. In fact, it may have been the most interesting part of DAO. Her her work on DAII seems to have been character dialogue over a broader number of important characters (Anders, for instance). I'd say there is a big difference in the quality of the writing, but I'd also put that down to EAs rushed dev time and the utter failure of Mike Laidlaw.
Do I wish she could have more on an insiders perspective on games? Sure. But, you know, whatever. It's obvious that her work on the first game was fine. This is why I fucking hate the online gaming community sometimes. For every intelligent hobbiest you get ten puerile fanboys who will attack some innocent person because their pathetically game-dependent sense of identity has been harmed.
Ugh. If it wasn't for the fact that I'm sure most of them won't procreate, I'd advocate they be euthanized for the good of the species.
Do I wish she could have more on an insiders perspective on games? Sure. But, you know, whatever. It's obvious that her work on the first game was fine. This is why I fucking hate the online gaming community sometimes. For every intelligent hobbiest you get ten puerile fanboys who will attack some innocent person because their pathetically game-dependent sense of identity has been harmed.
Ugh. If it wasn't for the fact that I'm sure most of them won't procreate, I'd advocate they be euthanized for the good of the species.
Deus Ex had it's "Tell me a story" difficulty, even L.A. Noire allowed you to skip the most difficult parts. I know some people aren't as hardcore and just want to enjoy a good damn narrative.
The part where the manager defended her reminded me of running restaurants in my youth; the best part of my week was when I got that one customer who was just a prick and wanted to abuse somebody, and you could see the gradual buildup of them getting more and more steamed up. You would keep being nice to them and offering solutions, even though you knew they weren't going to take them, and all the while deciding what line they would have to cross for it to be acceptable for you to fight back. Anticipation, eagerness, and finally the payoff: the f-word. After that all bets were off, and you could justifiably cuss them out. The look on peoples' faces when they realize that you are a human being and not just a robot is one of the most gratifying experiences you can have. That manager was probably sick of constantly having to take shit from his insanely self-entitled gamer customer base, and at least a little part of him was glad he finally had an acceptable outlet for his frustration. I would have liked him to write an essay about how insanely personal gamers take it when something happens to our precious industry (you know he's got it packed away in his brain somewhere). Soldier on, brave GM, out of the PC shackles from which you were once entwined.
No one's going to win, and it's a useless argument anyway. I'm disappointed the fans feel the need to lash out at a writer, and disappointed Bioware responded in kind. I've come to the conclusion both sides need to fuck off.
Well, I'm not inclined to like ANYBODY who worked on Dragon Age 2. They are all the cancer that killed Dragon Age. ALL of them. Let's abuse them all. Then they can form a support group so Helper won't feel so alone.
So, if I have this straight - trolls hate her writing, then blast her even more when she defends herself with a witty comeback?
Jesus freaking Christ, these people need a life.
I've never played DA2 (masochistic tendencies nowithstanding), and if I do it'll be to see what all the fuss is about. But when I play a game, and there are certain aspects of a game that suck...I'll write a fucking blog post or an article about it and call it a day.
The above necessitation to harass one woman in particular is just plain stupid. DA 2 had a crappy story - so what? Play something else. There are other games with better stories to check out and enjoy. Like Katherine said - we're gaming hobbyists. (I prefer the term gamer because I think it all means the same). It's a hobby. While we have the right to want that hobby to work out, the best thing about this hobby is that we have CHOICES. Other things to get into.
If you're so caught up on a game that came out LAST YEAR, then drop an angry forum post. Call the people up in some way, and tell them to "fix dat shit" next time. Spewing all this hate and viritrol at this one woman and following her around the Internet is a load of shit, and makes the more sensible gamers look just as insane as the trolls.
My sincerest apologies if that game's story did not turn out the way it did. But get a goddamn life.
tl;dr - Leave the woman alone, STFAJPG.
Jesus freaking Christ, these people need a life.
I've never played DA2 (masochistic tendencies nowithstanding), and if I do it'll be to see what all the fuss is about. But when I play a game, and there are certain aspects of a game that suck...I'll write a fucking blog post or an article about it and call it a day.
The above necessitation to harass one woman in particular is just plain stupid. DA 2 had a crappy story - so what? Play something else. There are other games with better stories to check out and enjoy. Like Katherine said - we're gaming hobbyists. (I prefer the term gamer because I think it all means the same). It's a hobby. While we have the right to want that hobby to work out, the best thing about this hobby is that we have CHOICES. Other things to get into.
If you're so caught up on a game that came out LAST YEAR, then drop an angry forum post. Call the people up in some way, and tell them to "fix dat shit" next time. Spewing all this hate and viritrol at this one woman and following her around the Internet is a load of shit, and makes the more sensible gamers look just as insane as the trolls.
My sincerest apologies if that game's story did not turn out the way it did. But get a goddamn life.
tl;dr - Leave the woman alone, STFAJPG.
The stories and characters are about the only thing I like about Dragon Age. I wish you *could* skip all the annoying combat. Anyway, people on the internet are self-entitled idiots with fragile egos (news flash).
"This is a false analogy. It's more like saying that someone cannot write a movie script if s/he had never seen/seriously enjoyed a movie. Is this true? I don't know, it's debatable. But nobody's saying that she has to DESIGN a game to be a good video-game writer - just to PLAY them."
IF this was the case then every "gamerz" would be awesome writers. I have not heard one compelling argument on why PLAYING a game somehow makes you a better game writer? I have never once heard someone reference the gameplay when saying a game STORY was good or bad. They are usually separate issues when discussing a game. How the story is presented (cutscenes, in game dialog, or dialog menus) does not require the story teller to actually be a lover of video games. They work with the developers...they know HOW the game will be presented. It is not like thy just write a script and let the developer figure out how to best incorporate it into the gameplay of game. My analogy was more to the effect people think that she needs to have been a part of everything about the game...and that includes playing games. People who WRITE do it because they like WRITING...sure some do it in the medium they absolutely adore but does a TV show writer who then wrote a movie somehow not qualified if they are not a big movie buff? Maybe they bring some NEW IDEAS to an old way of doing things. This may be the case here having non-gamers try new things...some will fail and others might bring new experiences we never thought possible as "gamerz".
IF this was the case then every "gamerz" would be awesome writers. I have not heard one compelling argument on why PLAYING a game somehow makes you a better game writer? I have never once heard someone reference the gameplay when saying a game STORY was good or bad. They are usually separate issues when discussing a game. How the story is presented (cutscenes, in game dialog, or dialog menus) does not require the story teller to actually be a lover of video games. They work with the developers...they know HOW the game will be presented. It is not like thy just write a script and let the developer figure out how to best incorporate it into the gameplay of game. My analogy was more to the effect people think that she needs to have been a part of everything about the game...and that includes playing games. People who WRITE do it because they like WRITING...sure some do it in the medium they absolutely adore but does a TV show writer who then wrote a movie somehow not qualified if they are not a big movie buff? Maybe they bring some NEW IDEAS to an old way of doing things. This may be the case here having non-gamers try new things...some will fail and others might bring new experiences we never thought possible as "gamerz".
I have no issue with Dragon Age and it's writing or characters, but if you're in the games industry and say something to the effect that combat should be skippable, then you must know what you're getting yourself in for. She should have known to simply lay low, not bother with a twitter account and not respond directly to insults.... if she didn't know, then she got the same as anyone (male or female) in the industry would receive.
It's too bad she got the "fat bitch" or "cunt" insults... but then again Jim gets those too... as does pretty much anyone on the internet. It's not sexist... it's apparently just the internet.
It's not even the gaming industry alone... political blogs are filled with this type of virilent activity as are feminist sites, tech sites (there are some people who HATE Apple) and probably most any other topic where controversy or sides can be taken. :(
It's too bad she got the "fat bitch" or "cunt" insults... but then again Jim gets those too... as does pretty much anyone on the internet. It's not sexist... it's apparently just the internet.
It's not even the gaming industry alone... political blogs are filled with this type of virilent activity as are feminist sites, tech sites (there are some people who HATE Apple) and probably most any other topic where controversy or sides can be taken. :(
Don't like her views or what her being there says about Bioware but wouldn't attack them like that for it. I'd prefer games made by people who are actually passionate about them,, and fully appreciate the things that only games are capable of, regardless of role (which is pretty much the whole idea of indie games), so... I'll just continue to play other games. If she just wants to write without her stuff being burdened by gameplay, it just seems like it would be better for her to work on something other than games. Anyway, Bioware writing is not the only kind of game writing, and I'm glad of that.
Is this seriously what we've reduced ourselves to? Sometimes I wonder whether gamers are mostly grown adults, or foul-mouthed toddlers. I'm embarrassed.
@Elsa - You're totally spot on with your entire comment. It consistently amazes me that people are somehow surprised that trolls will be trolls, and the more you feed them with reactions, the worse things get. It is everywhere. Where there is anonymity, there will be asshats.
This is what happens when people forget about point and click adventure games and text based adventure games. Are these no longer games?
This has nothing to do with being a man vs. a woman. This is like buying a book and asking for a feature that allows you to skip all the reading. It misses the entire fucking point.
MUDs and point and clicks have some form of active gameplay element in them however.
Hepler seems to want to remove player interaction entirely and turn games into "click next" "click yes or no" - basically a virtual 'choose your own adventure" book where you choose option a and turn to page 20, or choose option b and turn to page 35.
While I'm sure that kind of thing could have a niche following, that obviously isn't something your average Bioware fan (or hell, even your average gamer) wants to see Dragon Age/Mass Effect etc turn into.
Hepler seems to want to remove player interaction entirely and turn games into "click next" "click yes or no" - basically a virtual 'choose your own adventure" book where you choose option a and turn to page 20, or choose option b and turn to page 35.
While I'm sure that kind of thing could have a niche following, that obviously isn't something your average Bioware fan (or hell, even your average gamer) wants to see Dragon Age/Mass Effect etc turn into.
@TheNephilym
Lol. I don't have DA2 as much as other people do, BUT I believe almost every single problem it had was due to EA rushing it out the door. The game felt unfinished on every level. There were great ideas behind the game and a lot of potentially interesting plot points, but it never felt like they had time to finish anything. The combat was mostly good, but beyond that nothing in the game felt great. The romances were some of the worst parts of the game though. I liked the idea that they built up over the course of the decade you spent in the city (an incredibly disjointed decade), but the way the progressed felt off and some of the characters (Anders especially) were just horribly written. Still given another six months I think they could have worked out most of the issues and it would have actually been a good game.
Lol. I don't have DA2 as much as other people do, BUT I believe almost every single problem it had was due to EA rushing it out the door. The game felt unfinished on every level. There were great ideas behind the game and a lot of potentially interesting plot points, but it never felt like they had time to finish anything. The combat was mostly good, but beyond that nothing in the game felt great. The romances were some of the worst parts of the game though. I liked the idea that they built up over the course of the decade you spent in the city (an incredibly disjointed decade), but the way the progressed felt off and some of the characters (Anders especially) were just horribly written. Still given another six months I think they could have worked out most of the issues and it would have actually been a good game.
@Derangel
"BUT I believe almost every single problem it had was due to EA rushing it out the door. The game felt unfinished on every level. There were great ideas behind the game and a lot of potentially interesting plot points, but it never felt like they had time to finish anything."
I think this is the crux of why there was such a vitriol-filled response to Hepler's comments. Gamers have become more and more disillusioned with 60 dollar games being rushed out the door, light on content and heavy on shortcuts. So to hear an employee of Bioware advocate that they would prefer to cut out the brunt of the gameplay entirely, it isn't surprised people were up in arms. Granted it all got out of hand, but I can understand why people would be alarmed to hear Bioware employees advocating for that given the current climate of gaming.
"BUT I believe almost every single problem it had was due to EA rushing it out the door. The game felt unfinished on every level. There were great ideas behind the game and a lot of potentially interesting plot points, but it never felt like they had time to finish anything."
I think this is the crux of why there was such a vitriol-filled response to Hepler's comments. Gamers have become more and more disillusioned with 60 dollar games being rushed out the door, light on content and heavy on shortcuts. So to hear an employee of Bioware advocate that they would prefer to cut out the brunt of the gameplay entirely, it isn't surprised people were up in arms. Granted it all got out of hand, but I can understand why people would be alarmed to hear Bioware employees advocating for that given the current climate of gaming.
Also the people saying "im embarrassed for people who hurl insults over the internet at others" are huge lying hypocrites
She writes bad stories and has poor views of the industry she works in. Further more, Jim, you of all people should know that narrative and gameplay should serve to compliment each other, rather than segregating the two. She's not looking to contribute anything to the game industry, and openly admits it.
And that's why I dislike her.
That and she's fat. You fat people are the worst.
And that's why I dislike her.
That and she's fat. You fat people are the worst.
I LOL'd. I agree with her point that in story driven gameplay there should be the option to skip past the combat. But Dragon Age was the last Bioware game I played and the idiotic story was a major reason why I stopped playing a third of the way in.
Okay, damn. This topic apparently struck a sensitive chord with people. I won't waste my time tossing in my two cents into the hurricane of opinions here, but as a writer for the medium I almost feel obligated to. SHORT VERSION-
Forming your own opinion for products your're passionate about- ACCEPTABLE. Singling out a writer with vulgar and insensitive statements- DISGUSTING. Unable to chew what you have just bitten off-FIGURES. Thinking you know the exact process of narrative structuring coinciding with gameplay development and knowing precisely who to throw your handful of feces at-YOU'RE AN IDIOT.
Forming your own opinion for products your're passionate about- ACCEPTABLE. Singling out a writer with vulgar and insensitive statements- DISGUSTING. Unable to chew what you have just bitten off-FIGURES. Thinking you know the exact process of narrative structuring coinciding with gameplay development and knowing precisely who to throw your handful of feces at-YOU'RE AN IDIOT.
@sugarunicorn
Point taken. There is still gameplay. Your point raises a good question though. What makes a game a game? Is it the gameplay or the interaction of the person with the medium? A game like LA Noire seems to emphasize choice as playing the biggest impact on the outcome of the game. Yes you need to do some legwork which require some combat and some detective work but in the end you are still making a series of choices that effect the final outcome. I personally would hate to play Mass Effect without the combat but the most thrilling part for me was the final mission and seeing how all my decisions would effect the outcome...could that same "feeling" be had if I never shot one bad guy? Hard to know but it is an interesting thought.
Point taken. There is still gameplay. Your point raises a good question though. What makes a game a game? Is it the gameplay or the interaction of the person with the medium? A game like LA Noire seems to emphasize choice as playing the biggest impact on the outcome of the game. Yes you need to do some legwork which require some combat and some detective work but in the end you are still making a series of choices that effect the final outcome. I personally would hate to play Mass Effect without the combat but the most thrilling part for me was the final mission and seeing how all my decisions would effect the outcome...could that same "feeling" be had if I never shot one bad guy? Hard to know but it is an interesting thought.
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