Day-one downloadable content is an oft-talked about topic. It's simultaneously great, especially when free, but a pain since console hard drive sizes aren't where they need to be. Yet one part of the discussion rarely seems to get brought up: why developers don't just slap that content on the disc and call it a day.
Talking with Ars Technica, Mass Effect 2 project director Casey Hudson explained -- in easy-to-understand terms -- the reasoning behind this choice. Three cheers for logic! "What goes out on disc, it takes about 12 weeks to debug and certify and get into the trucks to go out into stores."
"That gives us a period of 8 to 12 weeks where we can make content, but we can't put it onto the disc because it's already out there. But we can insert it digitally, day one."
Compare that to the amount of time it takes for a finished add-on pack to leave Microsoft after certification and become playable for us gamers, which Casey says is "down to a matter of two or three weeks -- it makes a big difference."
And that's the story of how Zaeed was born. It makes perfect sense now, but honestly, a lot of people don't take the time to think these things all the way through.
Day one content: Bioware explains why it's sometimes legit [Ars Technica]
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Contest:
3:00 AM on 03.18.2010
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Also in many cases like ME2 it is a tactic to avoid resale and piracy, nothing more, and acting like it is a customer reward is silly. It's a non-customer non-reward... or something.
But I've known the rational behind the decision for a long time, it was very well talked over at the escapist back when Dragon Age came out.
That is bullshit, plain and simple.
I even think it's a fucking brilliant idea to put out DLC that is free to people who bought a game new and needs to be paid for by pre-owned buyers.
Pre-owned sales are money down the drain for devs, and to give us a reason to buy new, or to make the new version WORTH what it costs over a pre-owned copy is exactly what the industry needs to do.
I say give every new purchase free DLC worth £10, then until the game is down to less than £30 pre-owned it's always going to be best to buy it new.
Or like I've donw with Dragon Age: Oranges, rent it on launch day, pinch the DLC codes out of it, and then buy it pre-owned a few months later. teehee.
StingingVelvet, you didn't read the article, did you?
It's not that consumers don't care, it's that they're idiots who seem to believe the company is greedy and refuses to include content in the games. If I, the developer, have finished a game, and find myself with three months before the game comes out, I might just create some free bonus content for my customers (most people complaining about Day One DLC would have to be people purchasing used copies, since anyone buying a new copy gets the Day One DLC absolutely free with the game, so they aren't even my customers, since as a dev, I'm not getting anything from them when they buy used).
Since Day One DLC comes free with the game, (Warden's Peak DLC was a result of the game being delayed and was originally going to come out months after release, and I guess people had a reason to hate it, but why on earth wouldn't anyone want to buy the DDE edition of Dragon Age and have it to begin with?), customers usually ARE getting their money's worth, unless they get it used.
If the DLC haters had their way, we'd either never see the content added in DLC, since most of it's created after the fact, or games would be delayed a long time while all that content was developed and added to the game, and after the game comes out, there'd be little reason to replay it aside from absolute excellence, since nothing new would be added as time went on.
I think y'all be hatin'.
Now i got myself Dragon Age Awakening for ~17€. Its supposed to have arround 20h of gameplay and several new features. If they now come arround the corner with DLC from 10€-15€ offering 2-3h of gameplay or just a few maps. Well I think you can get my point.
Of course I read it, nothing it or you say goes against my point, which is that I would rather have the complete game on the disc I just bought than have to download DLC on day one, paid for or not.
On PC at least I know I can get that DLC working someday no matter what, but I would think console gamers would dislike the idea of DLC content at launch since one day you might no longer have access to it. Look at the original Xbox Live, it's going down soon and all that DLC goes with it.
Basically I am a strong supporter of actually owning a game, owning a complete copy of a game. When I pay my $50 and get home I want that disc to contain everything, not most of it.
The real reason is EA's reason, which was Bioware's original rationale for this - They don't like consumer choice. They don't like being undercut by the consumer and so they shame the consumer into buying new to get "free" content by withholding it.
They also say its to curb piracy, but that's total bullshit.
And Day One DLC is not expansion content, its shit that should have been in the game. If Bioware does this to get games out earlier and avoid the foibles of Sony and MS assurance processes, they can kindly bow out of console development and pander to the wants and needs of the diminishing PC gaming community. The big three have these processes in place for a reason.
Return to Ostagar - if anything - is proof they should go through this process and forgo Day One DLC anyway. That content was pay-for only and on its first day, it has some serious problems. They had to take it down for two weeks just to fix it, but they thought it was ready. There's no good excuse for that.
I am just sick and tired of seeing content that used to be STANDARD in games getting pulled out and withheld. Now I'm tired of getting treated like a petty crook for buying used when I've not pirated games.
If developers really have a problem with used, then they need to admit there's a problem with the revenue that retailers are getting. They barely get anything for moving those consoles new and a pittance for selling games new.
It doesn't pay the bills, apparently, so they turn to used sales, which is better for them and the consumer alike.
If you don't want your retailers and customers competing with and undercutting you, then give them both a better deal. Give the retailer a nicer slice and stop selling your games for $60 without full content. I can pay half that and get full DS and PSP games brand new - why in the age of HD am I getting smaller games than I'm getting on handhelds?.
That is a disgusting amount of consumer complacency right there.
Hell, MW2 proved that. No dedicated servers, loads of problems and hey, people are still willing to eat that shit up with a spoon an declare it the best thing ever.
All our "boycotters" of MW or even something as silly as the FFXIII boycotters still broke down and bought the games anyway. They so desperately want to be on the same page as other gamers that they'll put up with anything. They don't have the stones to back up their beliefs by not spending the money.
If the choice is between making a retailer rich, and making the creatives rich, it is an easy choice for me.
I expect this trend to develop over the next few years to the point where you get a unique code with the game, it associates with your gametag/PSNID, and otherwise the disc is valueless for resale/duplication. If retail is still a factor.
I have never sold a game used, never intend to. I bought some used games when I was an un/under-employed student, but now that I have a steady paycheque I wouldn't do it again.
EB/Gamestop et al. are pawnshops, making money hand-over-fist by re-selling games they originally retailed (netting a percent of the price in markup) for nearly the original price.
Here is an anecdote: after watching Canadian Olympic hockey I decided I might pick up NHL 10 after playing the demo, and I went to EB. They had the game new for 64.99, and USED for 59.99! How bloody ballsy of them! And this is the case with alot of their used stock - a $5 discount off the original retail markup price for a used game, of which they pocket the entire sales value. F#ck that, and f#ck them. Greedy leaches.
Buy new, support the industry, rather than the pawnshop system.
Why do you insist on carrying on like Bioware ran over your dog?
You are singling them out. I didn't see any of your righteous indignation on the story about the Sinclair Solutions pack for Bioshock 2 actually being on the disc already. Or when Ubisoft announced DLC what was blatantly planned for the game to the point where it was just shaded out of the chapter selection screen in the original game from release.
Where were your "consumer choice" rants when Ubisoft decided PC users of AC 2 can't choose not to have an active internet connection if they actually bought it?
And don't pretend Bioware is the only company that has buggy DLC launches. Any one who downloaded Fallout 3's "The Pitt" on the first day was met with an unplayable horror.
Your "consumer choice" rhetoric is transparent and weak. Consumers still have choice. You can support the people who made the game and sometimes get free shit, or you can save five dollars and support Gamestop instead.
Your incessant, inconsistent bitching because you can't have your cake and eat it too makes you look nothing more than a Bioware troll.
The only thing I'll rally against is when people bought the $10+ extra edition of Dragon Age in order to get what they thought was all the DLC, only to be greeted in-game with someone asking them to purchase Warden's Keep. From what I understand that's been corrected (or I may just have misunderstood the whole problem), but seemed a bit off.
Still, it's pretty neat.
The last sentence DOES make sense. I'd like to put a game into my Xbox 360 without it requiring an update. Don't get me wrong: I love my Xbox 360, but I wish developers would stop half-assing their games.
I feel like people are missing this point. I also feel like those people think that developers can add content to the disc the day before its released. Like my friend says after I say "Just finished work on (some game) today" and he says- "cool did you get a copy?" and I'm like >_<
I love how people are either pissed because no DLC is offered or pissed because DLC IS offered day one at the expense of 12 additional weeks of developer crunch time. Devs work their fucking asses off to bring you this content and on Day 1- FOR FREE!
There's no pleasing you fuckers.
Think people have a gut reaction to stuff like that and it's hard to let go of that feeling and see the bigger picture.
But what do I know, I'm just one sexy man.
My two cents.
Every day that a game is delayed costs the company money.
Remember the gold old days, when we were shipped a finished product, and game developers kept on chugging regardless? :p
Nostalgia goggles I suppose.
Except this was going to happen one way or another because its owned by EA, and Zaeed wasn't even out on xbox day one, so ME2 should have been delayed 3 months so he could be in it? And then he would need to be fleshed out to make sense in the main game so add a month or two, and now Firewalker and Kasumi are going gold so add another three months and now ME2 is a holiday release title, thats what you would have perfered?
Nope. Just the day one content.
Somehow every Eastern game developer is able to do it (even with simultaneous global release dates) - Bayonetta for example shipped 100% with everything it needed. Mikami specifically said he delayed the game so they wouldn't have to do exactly what Bioware did - add in day one DLC in any form, and ship us the complete game. What about the poor souls who don't have internet readily available to get the content (a surprisingly high amount)?
Is Bioware Satan for doing this? Hell no; they're like my favorite developer. But what Mikami did should count for something, eh?
Its not so much what Bioware did, as it is what EA required them to do. It's this little thing called project ten dollar, and day one dlc was going to happen no matter what. Delaying a game to include everything you can at launch is great, I just think rewarding new purchacers is great to.
People try to say it hurts consumer choice but it's just an incintive to people who buy new, it would be like getting upset that you bought a used car but a new car comes with a warranty. Just because a new car has a warranty doesn't mean you don't have the option to buy a used car. You know what, you can probably buy a warranty for your used car too.
Basically, if I pay 50/60$ for a game, I am willing to put up with a minor, unobtrusive inconvenience to make it better so the developers don't go out of business, because I like the developers. I 50/60$ like them. And I can, surprisingly, connect to the internet, and download a fairly small file. What I don't want is obtrusive software installed on my computer, or being at the whims of people knocking servers offline. I want to play my game, once I've started to.
They could have initiated project 10 dollar for Cerberus, and just had later date non-day one DLC.
Very easy solution.
I actually LOVE project ten dollar, but project ten dollar does not equal "automatic day one DLC".
My main question is if they actually ship the game for disc burn without ever testing if the Day 1 DLC will install and work properly? Obviously if it hasn't been developed yet, the answer is yes....pretty big risk, if you ask me.
Day-1 DLC that's charged for is ridiculous. It is literally content created with funds from their initial budget specifically to charge additionally for. There's no justification for charging for what is essentially a fragmented game.
I'm pretty sure it does but I could be wrong, I dont remeber what Bad Company 2 got, maybe it was just early acces to game modes or something so I guess you are right. But in the case of Dragon Age Shale was ment to be day 1 dlc, and was. However Warden's Keep was released day one because the game was delayed and it was ready to go.
I love how you assume $7.99 is a hardship for me because I dislike the idea of day-one pay-to-play DLC. It can't be that I am against it on principle, oh no, I must be broke.
And I am not worried about my Xbox DLC, if you read my post you would see that I play on PC, my point was that all these people buying DLC and games on Xbox Live which are DRM protected have no idea how long those purchases will remain viable, meaning your $60 purchase could be forever neutered at some point. Now, I don't know about backing console stuff up, that is news to me, but even if you do so the DRM-ed content will not work unless connected to Live in many situations, which one day might not be possible as we see with the original Xbox.
Almost the entirety of posts in this thread seem to think Bioware is more important than consumer rights, which is just sad to me. I should not have to activate my game online with their service to receive the entirety of my $50 purchase, it should be right there on the disc I bought, PERIOD. I don't care about resale, about piracy, about anything else than my money getting me the entire game to play and not play when I want to, to sell one day if for some reason I want to, etc. etc. etc..
Consumers are more important.
It is not the money, it is the having a completely owned product principle.
And yes, PC games can be bought used, why not? DRM-free games anyway, which ME2 is.
"Of course I read it, nothing it or you say goes against my point, which is that I would rather have the complete game on the disc I just bought than have to download DLC on day one, paid for or not."
I guess your opinion is okay. I mean, me, I'm going to buy whatever DLC Bioware puts out or anything. I don't mind that they keep me interested in the game by occasionally releasing new content after release; hell, it's better than getting nothing for another two years while a sequel is developed.
If you want the complete game on disc, just wait for the usually inevitable GOTY edition that includes everything.